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07-14-2004, 09:52 AM
  #1
BobMarleyNYR
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LW, C - UFA's

OK, I know this has been discussed quite a bit, but I'd like to tie everyone's opinions together... IMO, we NEED either a no. 1 center or no 1. LW (assuming Lundmark will be 2nd line, as he should). Who will it be?

As a side note, I'll bet my life that we don't sign any defensemen...

Paul Kariya, Brad Isbister, Dean McAmmond, Michal Nylander, Yanic Perreault, Martin Rucinsky, anyone... do you think it'll happen? If so, who would you like?


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07-14-2004, 10:07 AM
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I think it will be either Nedved and if not Petr I think Slats takes yet another chance of a player in Allison.

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07-14-2004, 10:23 AM
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I'm hoping for Nylander....

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07-14-2004, 10:24 AM
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We need all three, a No 1. Center, a LW capable of playing top 6, a veteran D-man. Not to mention a goalie depending on what goes on with Dunham. And I think the Rangers will sign these 4 types of players in due time....Guesses on who it wil be

No. 1 Center - Demitra, Nylander or, gulp, Nedved or Stumpel...
LW - Have no clue...Rucinsky? could be a trade here (Kariya too expensive)
D-man - Krispy Kreme or Maladog (Ok, maybe Cullimore, Hill, Bombardir, Odelein or Simpson)
Goalie - Kevin Weekes

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07-14-2004, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rangers_23
I'm hoping for Nylander....
The Thrashers have expressed big interest in him, while Boston probably needs to keep him just to keep the heat off big Joe. In reagrds to Nylander, i don't understand the interest in him. We just had a center like him in Nedved, and at least Nedved stays healthy. I'm not saying I want Nedved back, (too much been there, done that), but when I see players like Stumpel, Nylander and Zhamnov mentioned, I get confused since most people killed Nedved for his soft inconsistent play. I still think the best option is bringing back Lindros.

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07-14-2004, 10:38 AM
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All we need is LW and G. Holik is ok (not great, just ok) 1st line C. Rucinski or Hlavac could play with Jagr and Holik. Goaltender is a problem and will be such. The rest is not, IMO.




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07-14-2004, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jas
The Thrashers have expressed big interest in him, while Boston probably needs to keep him just to keep the heat off big Joe. In reagrds to Nylander, i don't understand the interest in him. We just had a center like him in Nedved, and at least Nedved stays healthy. I'm not saying I want Nedved back, (too much been there, done that), but when I see players like Stumpel, Nylander and Zhamnov mentioned, I get confused since most people killed Nedved for his soft inconsistent play. I still think the best option is bringing back Lindros.
OK, this is more like it...Disagreeing with my man JAS...Minor point, but bringing back the inconsistent, injury-plagued and doomed Baby Huey for 20 games is the WORST option...

As for Nykander and Nedved...I've watched alot of both the past few years and they are nothing alike anymore....I was never a big Nylander backer, and hate to admit it because of a friend of ours, but I have been really impressed by his play in Wash and Boston (when healthy) the last two years...He has been an excellent playmaker and offensive creator, as well as a serious back-checker while I have seen very little of any of that from Nedved over the last year. ...We need a playmaker at C and Nedved, who's main claim to fame is firing off wide and high wrist shots, is far from the answer...Nylander is a much better fit..

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07-14-2004, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
OK, this is more like it...Disagreeing with my man JAS...Minor point, but bringing back the inconsistent, injury-plagued and doomed Baby Huey for 20 games is the WORST option...
I disagree, Larry. Even if Lindros were to come back and miss significant time (he missed an average of 18 games a year with us), it wouldn't be the disaster that it was the past 3 years since we aren't in "playoffs or bust" mode anymore. Lindros goes down and another young kid gets a taste of the NHL until he returns.

But my main reason for wanting Lindros back is what he can do in the locker room. This team (assuming Messier really is gone) has no leaders. That is DEATH for a rebuilding team. If Lindros returned, he'd become the unquestioned leader of this team, and he'd do a hell of a better job in that role than Holik or Jagr or Kaspar.

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07-14-2004, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
a veteran D-man. Not to mention a goalie depending on what goes on with Dunham.

D-man - Krispy Kreme or Maladog (Ok, maybe Cullimore, Hill, Bombardir, Odelein or Simpson)
Goalie - Kevin Weekes

I disagree, we have 3 veteran defenseman in Kasparaitis, Poti, and Rachunek. I know that Poti and Rachunek have been criticized a lot on these boards but let's face it, they are here next year. That's 3 defenseman to play the majority of the games. Tyutin and Pock (Pock is no guarantee but I liked what I saw in his brief time here last year. That leaves one spot for Kontradiev, Lampman, Baranka, Liffiton, etc., etc. I would leave the defense alone unless we acquire one on a trade that sends Poti or Rachunek the other way. We have to work the kids in the everyday line up if we are to develop them.

As far as a goalie. Dunham is a good part time goalie. He was great at the beginning of the year last year. They was obviously an injury or something because the guy was terrible from December on. That being said, Weekes may be a good goalie to split time with Dunham.

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07-14-2004, 11:03 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
I disagree, Larry. Even if Lindros were to come back and miss significant time (he missed an average of 18 games a year with us), it wouldn't be the disaster that it was the past 3 years since we aren't in "playoffs or bust" mode anymore. Lindros goes down and another young kid gets a taste of the NHL until he returns.

But my main reason for wanting Lindros back is what he can do in the locker room. This team (assuming Messier really is gone) has no leaders. That is DEATH for a rebuilding team. If Lindros returned, he'd become the unquestioned leader of this team, and he'd do a hell of a better job in that role than Holik or Jagr or Kaspar.
The thing is there really aren't enough kids ready to be thrown into the NHL next year. Even with bringing in a #1 center, there will probably be a yoing 2nd and 4th line C and up to 6-7 young forwards..If you bring in Lindros as a guy to count on as the 1st or 2nd line C, there is NOTHING to bring up in reserve except for kids who should be playing in Hartford when he goes down....I think we need to bring in a more dependable and durable C, as well as one that can pass the puck...

As for the leadership role, I can't argue with you there...I'm no Lindros fan, but he has handled himself nicely in that fashion..But other leaders can be found or forged....

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07-14-2004, 11:09 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by drewcon40
I disagree, we have 3 veteran defenseman in Kasparaitis, Poti, and Rachunek. I know that Poti and Rachunek have been criticized a lot on these boards but let's face it, they are here next year. That's 3 defenseman to play the majority of the games. Tyutin and Pock (Pock is no guarantee but I liked what I saw in his brief time here last year. That leaves one spot for Kontradiev, Lampman, Baranka, Liffiton, etc., etc. I would leave the defense alone unless we acquire one on a trade that sends Poti or Rachunek the other way. We have to work the kids in the everyday line up if we are to develop them.

As far as a goalie. Dunham is a good part time goalie. He was great at the beginning of the year last year. They was obviously an injury or something because the guy was terrible from December on. That being said, Weekes may be a good goalie to split time with Dunham.
With out another vet D-man, we are hoisting way too much stress and pressure on these young kids...Tyitin, Pock, Rachunek and maybe Kondraitev will get more then enough ice time but all four shouldn't be playing at once at the start of the season...They just ain't ready...Poti, although a veteran, needs a steady stay at home D-man to play with him so we at least might get his offensive talents to emerge...ANd, I would also like Tyutin and Pock, who's only been a d-man for 1 year, to be getting on ice schooling and eduction from a vet that can show them the ropes and tricks.....Thesame goes for Kondraitev and Rachunek, if he shows he can play any better then the pitiful sombie we saw last year...kasparitis will help but we need one more vet to flesh out the defense...

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07-14-2004, 11:11 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
With out another vet D-man, we are hoisting way too much stress and pressure on these young kids...Tyitin, Pock, Rachunek and maybe Kondraitev will get more then enough ice time but all four shouldn't be playing at once at the start of the season...They just ain't ready...Poti, although a veteran, needs a steady stay at home D-man to play with him so we at least might get his offensive talents to emerge...ANd, I would also like Tyutin and Pock, who's only been a d-man for 1 year, to be getting on ice schooling and eduction from a vet that can show them the ropes and tricks.....Thesame goes for Kondraitev and Rachunek, if he shows he can play any better then the pitiful sombie we saw last year...kasparitis will help but we need one more vet to flesh out the defense...
Hence my opinion that Poti is an obstacle on the blueline right now.

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07-14-2004, 11:11 AM
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Demitra is a far better player than Nedved - I swear, if they bring Nedved back I'm not buying tickets or merchandise.

Isbister is intriguing. I always thought he had talent but sometimes he pulls a Grosek for a few days and completely dissapears (but at least he doesn't pull the full Grosek and dissapears 100% of the time).

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07-14-2004, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
The thing is there really aren't enough kids ready to be thrown into the NHL next year. Even with bringing in a #1 center, there will probably be a yoing 2nd and 4th line C and up to 6-7 young forwards..If you bring in Lindros as a guy to count on as the 1st or 2nd line C, there is NOTHING to bring up in reserve except for kids who should be playing in Hartford when he goes down....I think we need to bring in a more dependable and durable C, as well as one that can pass the puck...

As for the leadership role, I can't argue with you there...I'm no Lindros fan, but he has handled himself nicely in that fashion..But other leaders can be found or forged....
I agree that Lindros is not the #1 option. I was pushing for Craig Conroy before he signed with LA because I thought he could fill a top 2 line role and be a leader. But with Conroy out of the picture, Lindros is the only player left that fulfills both of those needs. If we sign, hypothetically, Nylander for offense and Buchberger for leadership, we wind up taking a 3rd/4th line spot away from a kid (which is where most of them would play anyway).

And we don't have leaders to forge on this roster. Our vets are not leaders. Our young players have enough on their plate with trying to establish themselves as NHLers. They cannot take on a leadership role so soon.

EDIT: Also, Lindros is already an accepted locker room leader in NY. Any other FA we sign would have to earn the trust and respect of his teammates before he can take a position of leadership. Lindros has a history with most of these players.

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07-14-2004, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
OK, this is more like it...Disagreeing with my man JAS...Minor point, but bringing back the inconsistent, injury-plagued and doomed Baby Huey for 20 games is the WORST option...

As for Nykander and Nedved...I've watched alot of both the past few years and they are nothing alike anymore....I was never a big Nylander backer, and hate to admit it because of a friend of ours, but I have been really impressed by his play in Wash and Boston (when healthy) the last two years...He has been an excellent playmaker and offensive creator, as well as a serious back-checker while I have seen very little of any of that from Nedved over the last year. ...We need a playmaker at C and Nedved, who's main claim to fame is firing off wide and high wrist shots, is far from the answer...Nylander is a much better fit..
I guess you're seeing something I haven't. As for Lindros, if this team was challenging for anything other than a shot at drafting Crosby, I'd agree. But, I think its win-win all-around. If he's healthy, he takes major pressure off Lundmark (or whoever the 2nd line center is.) He showed some chemistry with Jagr. He keeps Holik out of the #1 center position. He, for intents and purpose, was the unofficial captain and leader last year. And, the younger players looked up to him. Oh, and if he plays 40 or so games, the shot at Crosby is that much greater.

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07-14-2004, 11:42 AM
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Lindros would not have been a bad choice for the No 1 center spot, if the price was right (cheap). But after Carl's comments there is zero chance Sather will resign him now.

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07-14-2004, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
OK, I know this has been discussed quite a bit, but I'd like to tie everyone's opinions together... IMO, we NEED either a no. 1 center or no 1. LW (assuming Lundmark will be 2nd line, as he should). Who will it be?

As a side note, I'll bet my life that we don't sign any defensemen...

Paul Kariya, Brad Isbister, Dean McAmmond, Michal Nylander, Yanic Perreault, Martin Rucinsky, anyone... do you think it'll happen? If so, who would you like?
Blatny and Kurka are my top choices, they are young, cheap and have good potential.

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07-14-2004, 12:11 PM
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demitra isn't an option...he already said he wants nothing to do with the rangers.

i think it will either be nylander or lindros (or messier :lol ) (jagr's sidekick kip miller is out there too :lol )

the other option would be to leave holik with jagr and then sign someone like jason wiemer to center the checking line...

for lw the guy i want them to take a chance on is Petr Schastlivy...

also since lundmark could play either LW or C on the 2nd line, i'd be looking for someone that can play both lw or c (like wiemer) who can provide a veteran presence on the line with lundmark and balej...it doesn't matter if the guy isn't that skilled as long as he provides leadership for those 2

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07-14-2004, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
I agree that Lindros is not the #1 option. I was pushing for Craig Conroy before he signed with LA because I thought he could fill a top 2 line role and be a leader. But with Conroy out of the picture, Lindros is the only player left that fulfills both of those needs. If we sign, hypothetically, Nylander for offense and Buchberger for leadership, we wind up taking a 3rd/4th line spot away from a kid (which is where most of them would play anyway).

And we don't have leaders to forge on this roster. Our vets are not leaders. Our young players have enough on their plate with trying to establish themselves as NHLers. They cannot take on a leadership role so soon.

EDIT: Also, Lindros is already an accepted locker room leader in NY. Any other FA we sign would have to earn the trust and respect of his teammates before he can take a position of leadership. Lindros has a history with most of these players.
Who the heck wants Buchberger for leadership? Anyway, a hurt Lindros doesn't fulfill any needs and odds are that he will be hurt sooner than later..Why invest anything in him....

True, there are no true leaders on this team right now, but this should be a new team emarging in training camp and during this time I could see both vets (maybe Jagr, maybe Holik, Kaspar or whoever is signed--Mellanby anyone??) as well as youngsters (i.e. Ortmeyer) taking up the mantle....I'm just not worried about the leadership right now, I'm worried about dependable performance on the 1st line...

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07-14-2004, 12:43 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by jas
I guess you're seeing something I haven't. As for Lindros, if this team was challenging for anything other than a shot at drafting Crosby, I'd agree. But, I think its win-win all-around. If he's healthy, he takes major pressure off Lundmark (or whoever the 2nd line center is.) He showed some chemistry with Jagr. He keeps Holik out of the #1 center position. He, for intents and purpose, was the unofficial captain and leader last year. And, the younger players looked up to him. Oh, and if he plays 40 or so games, the shot at Crosby is that much greater.
Or visa-versa....I really don't want to deal with the play for losing/Crospby issue because I think it's bush league, but if it happens it happens...I think Lindros is a lose-lose situation...I really don't think his leadership value will be all that important...Other players will emerge and the coaches (Renney??, McGill??? Futiu???) are the important ones....Any #1 center keeps Holik away from the 1st line so that is nothing special to Lindros...And Lundmark/Moore will probably be the #2 C to begin with, and probably neither one being ready for that position..Then when Lindros gets hurt, then we have Lundmark (for example) moving around again and to a slot where he is completley overmatched...Look at how he played last year with no self assurance and confidence, it will be worse this year with a Lindros injury...And then we bring up a kid from hartford that isn't ready and the same thing happens to him..And before you know it, instead of nuturing our youngsters we are stunting their growth and confidence...These two are what the season is all about....

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07-14-2004, 12:49 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
Who the heck wants Buchberger for leadership? Anyway, a hurt Lindros doesn't fulfill any needs and odds are that he will be hurt sooner than later..Why invest anything in him....
I wasn't advocating Buchberger, per say. I was using him as an example of the type of FA that gets signed for leadership. The main point was that they tend to be 3rd/4th line types, and that's where many of our kids are fighting for roster spots. And Mellanby looks to be headed back to Florida.

Quote:
True, there are no true leaders on this team right now, but this should be a new team emarging in training camp and during this time I could see both vets (maybe Jagr, maybe Holik, Kaspar or whoever is signed--Mellanby anyone??) as well as youngsters (i.e. Ortmeyer) taking up the mantle....I'm just not worried about the leadership right now, I'm worried about dependable performance on the 1st line...
This is where we see things very differently. Jagr and Kaspar played on some very young Pittsburgh teams and never took up the mantle. I see no reason to think that they would change now. Holik was also never considered a leader in NJ. And our youngsters are not in a position to take a leadership role. They're all too green. If we had a young player how had been with the team for a few years and established himself already, that would be another story. But instead we have Lundmark, who is concentrating on bouncing back from his awful season, Ortmeyer, who is still trying to prove he belongs in the NHL, and a host of rookies with practically no NHL experience.

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07-14-2004, 01:06 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Kodiak
And Mellanby looks to be headed back to Florida.



This is where we see things very differently. Jagr and Kaspar played on some very young Pittsburgh teams and never took up the mantle. I see no reason to think that they would change now. Holik was also never considered a leader in NJ. And our youngsters are not in a position to take a leadership role. They're all too green. If we had a young player how had been with the team for a few years and established himself already, that would be another story. But instead we have Lundmark, who is concentrating on bouncing back from his awful season, Ortmeyer, who is still trying to prove he belongs in the NHL, and a host of rookies with practically no NHL experience.
Latest rumor I read was that Mellanby might not be headed back to FLA afterall...

And, yes, we do see things differently here. But that's cool...Jagr has been a captain already, Kaspar's game has matured a bit, and I truly think these guys could offer leadership if they want..And we'll see in training camp....Same thing with Holik if he walks the walk and not just talks the talk. Same thing with a vet that might be brought in......And not allowing some of the younger players to take an active role in the team building/leadership is the old way of thinking that we are trying to get away from...I'm not talking Lundmark becaus I agree with you on that one, but, for example, Ortmeyer has always been a leader, plays like a vet and leads by an example all the time...I can see him earning (if he hasn't already) the position of an individual to look up to in training camp also...And some time kids look up to other kids...Eh, I guess I just repeated myself again...Sorry..Hopefully we'll find out all the answers in a training camp..

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07-14-2004, 01:52 PM
  #23
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Well, OK... let's be realistic. IMO, we simply cannot let Holik play 1st line; he'll go berserk. This IS a problem, however. We altogether lack a 1st line center (offensive threat, strong, good on face-offs, good backchecking). Holik CAN do all of that, but he'd be SO much better with more leeway.

It sounds like Nylander has drawn mixed reactions... and I don't feel he's first line material. Perreault may be the best bet. I'm very interested in how people consider Lindros... I also feel that might be the safest road to take, but Maloney talks about him as if he's an EX-Ranger... also, Carl Lindros's comments lead you to believe thats it. Allison, in that case, may be the safest way to go.

As for LW, I still support Hlavac, but not as 1st line... they need to find a first line LW.

This a very urgent situation (if there is no lock-out), and something must be done NOW! Granted we will not win the Cup next season, but we must at least be a legitimate hockey team. Let's look at i

Hlavac Holik Jagr (Did this work last year?)
Lundmark Wiseman Balej
Murray D. Moore Ortmeyer
J. Green Betts McCarthy

That's terrible, IMO.

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07-14-2004, 02:25 PM
  #24
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I agree with Kodiak. Lindros, despite the health concerns, would still be the best option if we're looking for a stopgap 1st liner. Face it, there is no perfect solution. If it was that easy to find a cheap veteran top line player who would be willing to play for this team for reasons other than money, then we'd have nothing to argue about. But since theres nobody out there like that, we need to settle for whats available. Having said that, I highly doubt Lindros will be back. Not after what his father said and not after the tone Maloney was using when speaking of Lindros.

My hunch tells me Sather will try to sign Allison. We all know how much Slats likes to go after reclamation projects. And IMO, I definately wouldnt mind if he went that route. Allison isn't exactly a veteran presence, but he's a low-risk option and probably wouldn't cost that much given his injury history.

Just as a hypothetical, if our opening night roster looks like this, I'm pretty happy...

Wiseman-Allison-Jagr
Lundmark-D. Moore-Balej
Murray-Holik-Green
LaCouture-Betts-Ortmeyer

Kasparaitis-Poti
Tyutin-Kondratiev
Rachunek-Pock

extras: Lampman, Purinton, Nycholat

Dunham
Labarbera

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07-14-2004, 02:41 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
OK, I know this has been discussed quite a bit, but I'd like to tie everyone's opinions together... IMO, we NEED either a no. 1 center or no 1. LW (assuming Lundmark will be 2nd line, as he should). Who will it be?

As a side note, I'll bet my life that we don't sign any defensemen...

Paul Kariya, Brad Isbister, Dean McAmmond, Michal Nylander, Yanic Perreault, Martin Rucinsky, anyone... do you think it'll happen? If so, who would you like?
center i would much rather see a player such as jozef stumpel or yanic perault sick of all these big name stars anyways these are just good centers that can put up good numbers. rather try for perault.

left wing- isbister, mcammond, kariya if he comes cheap, schastlivy

goal- valiquette to get a fair shot knowone has even considered him he looked good in his two ganes with us, wouldnt mind seeing dunham brought out and valiquette being the starter for a a couple years or when ever blackie is ready to come up and be the # 1 guy

little a from da bx is offline  
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