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Old
05-09-2011, 03:23 PM
  #151
Shadow Flyer
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
And you know Richards is "smug" how?
I don't. It's purely speculative on my part, as is everything else on this message board. But I do watch his demeanor, both on and off the ice, and it leads me to believe there is a smugness to his personality. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant to my opinion.

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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Unless you're in the dressing room or on the ice at practice and during games, not a single one of us knows what goes on.
Agreed. Yet you seem so adamant in defending someone (Richards) who I wasn't even attacking (and could very well be correct about). I offered my opinion on a particular personality trait of Richards that I think could be a problem. Nothing more, nothing less.

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There is a hell of a lot of conjecture, which is our right as fans. But I am finding it interesting at just how many character assassinations occur in an offseason.
At what point did I attack his character? I have many personality traits that aren't endearing, and smugness can be one of them, yet I think I'm a pretty high character individual. Character and personality aren't necessarily inclusive.

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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
So far in the past few days, I've learned that Richards is:
- lazy
- unmotivated
- smug
- cocky
- injured
- wussy
- soft
- undisciplined
- a ****** leader
- a ****** Flyer
- overpaid
None of which can be attributed to me. Your beef appears to be with other posters. The problems of this team boil down to alot more than just one particular player.

Consistency is, and has been, a major problem for this team, no matter what players are here or who the coach is. Everyone, including Richards (especially Richards since he's the captain), should be open to scrutiny. Something is rotten here.

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And they say Eagles fans eat their young?
Wouldn't really know about that, I'm a Redskins fan. All we really know is losing.

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Old
05-09-2011, 03:33 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Before the Flyers came into existence??
No, but very shortly thereafter. Dornhoeffer, Clarke, and Barber were and are my reasons.

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Ever been to a Flyers game in Philly?
Nope. Tampa, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo. One of these days I'll get to a game in Philly. I'm tired of hearing the place go up when the other guys score.

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05-09-2011, 03:36 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
At what point did I attack his character? I have many personality traits that aren't endearing, and smugness can be one of them, yet I think I'm a pretty high character individual. Character and personality aren't necessarily inclusive.

None of which can be attributed to me. Your beef appears to be with other posters. The problems of this team boil down to alot more than just one particular player.
Sorry, most of that wasn't directed at you. I admit I'm tired of reading opinions presented as fact. Not by you, but by a whole lot of other people.

I agree that there are significant problems with this team that need to be addressed. Hopefully they are, and we can all get back to enjoying watching the Flyers play the way they're capable and winning.

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05-09-2011, 03:43 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Sorry, most of that wasn't directed at you. I admit I'm tired of reading opinions presented as fact. Not by you, but by a whole lot of other people.

I agree that there are significant problems with this team that need to be addressed. Hopefully they are, and we can all get back to enjoying watching the Flyers play the way they're capable and winning.
It's completely cool

Just to be clear: I love Richards as a player, and I think he's a fine captain. I am in no way trying to single him out as the root cause of the Flyers problems. This particular season was a collective failure, from the top on down. Everyone shares blame.

I do think there are areas in his off-ice personality that could be improved, and those changes very well could filter down through the rest of the team, hopefully making them more consistent. That's not me trying to be right, that's just me spitting out an opinion, and that opinion could very well be wrong. Pure speculation on my part.

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05-09-2011, 04:01 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Swiper the Fox View Post
I have no problems with Richards being in the line up

this entire lackluster bizarre ending of the reg season - playoff performance boiled down to problem and that was goaltending.
regardless of how much the players/coaches/GM downplayed this to the media, it was all a goalie couldn't save a beach ball cluster****.

richards is a proven player for juniors olympics and even last year, .........
when he plays , you notice him
he's a player this organization can not afford to lose
whether someone else needs to run the 'C" is debatable on many levels
jvr/giroux still a bit young
pronger is best one for the position and regardless if the C is on his sweater or not, he leads the team ( but, he also needs to be on the ice to be effective on and off the ice ) so, whom else would be a better fit for the "C" if pronger is already a leader ?


Trying to understand how you can look at the final two months of the season, lackluster play, inconsistency over the last couple years, and just blame it on the goalies. IF this was a new issue I could chalk it up to a lack of a goalie, but not with the play since February.

Now, goaltending is the issue when it comes down to whether this team is going to take the next step. They have a top 6 pretty much intact for the fwds, solid depth on defense, so it is really just rounding out the roster at this time.

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05-09-2011, 04:03 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Sorry, most of that wasn't directed at you. I admit I'm tired of reading opinions presented as fact. Not by you, but by a whole lot of other people.

I agree that there are significant problems with this team that need to be addressed. Hopefully they are, and we can all get back to enjoying watching the Flyers play the way they're capable and winning.
But at the same time those who read and follow the Flyers hear some of the speculation and the quotes and formulate an opinion, it is not like any of these things in question do not have any history. Where there is smoke....

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05-09-2011, 04:09 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But at the same time those who read and follow the Flyers hear some of the speculation and the quotes and formulate an opinion, it is not like any of these things in question do not have any history. Where there is smoke....
Are we talking about ancient history or something more recent? Any time you post a pic of Richards and Carter at a bar, it's at least 3 years old. Using old information and/or speculation to base a current opinion is worthless. Does it mean that they're out every night at a bar? No. Does it mean that they're never out at a bar? No. It's meaningless without a current context.

There may be smoke blowing, but I think we all know where it's directed.

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05-09-2011, 04:09 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
No need to blow up the team, just move one of Carter or Richards. Hartnell is fair game, and Carle is the deal is right. Let Carcillo walk, no need to resign both Nodl and Powe, I would consider Zherdev BUT ONLY WITH LAVIOLETTE's blessing.

Go get some guys who will play with a little sandpaper. Don't be a drama queen.




I do nto blame Richards, but something has to spark this kid. He needs to step it up a little bit, take his offseason seriously and address getting in better shape. Core conditioning, work on upper body strength.

And the undisputed leader of this team is Pronger. Look at the difference of how this team performed with him leading and how it changed to this year. I also look at the loss of Asham and Laperriere as huge losses too.




Not true, some like to look at the reality of the situation and can take an honest look at the roster and see that the MOST important need on this roster. I can accpet being a person who is willing to look at the problem and to find solutions, no matter how unpopular they may be with a group who may/may not be looking at the situation the same way. I do not feel the need to agree, and until I have been proven wrong my view will always hold a value no matter how far you bury your head in the sand.
Honestly, not a bad take. I disagree, but I do find it funny when you are on side and debating with 10 people on the other. Based on what I have read from you, I don't think they are changing your mind. True? That is what I find funny.

Now on to the details:
1. Carter and Richards are going nowhere.
2. Don't disagree with the other personnel (Hartnell, Carcillo, Nodl, Powe, Zherdev, Carle, etc). Consensus on goalie upgrade.
3. Why do you think conditioning is a problem for Richards? Just curious. He didn't seem to slow down on our cup run. He didn't run down this year, he had a wrist issue that caused his poor performance
4. I respect the underlined about you. You certainly don't follow the "norm" and many who you are arguing with, I tend to disagree with the most.

Conclusion: I disagree on Carter/Richards. Respect your opinion. Think noboby is changing your mind. However, the more I read of you, the more I see what you see. Cheers.

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05-09-2011, 04:13 PM
  #159
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Nope. Tampa, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo. One of these days I'll get to a game in Philly. I'm tired of hearing the place go up when the other guys score.
Oh - You need to make it a priority. My brother, father and I (lifelong diehards) made the trip a few years back. Watched a game in Philly and saw the sites that feel like a second home for me. It was the greatest sports trip of my life.

P.S. On the bucket list is a playoff game in Philly. And a SCF game in Philly.

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05-09-2011, 04:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Are we talking about ancient history or something more recent? Any time you post a pic of Richards and Carter at a bar, it's at least 3 years old. Using old information and/or speculation to base a current opinion is worthless. Does it mean that they're out every night at a bar? No. Does it mean that they're never out at a bar? No. It's meaningless without a current context.

There may be smoke blowing, but I think we all know where it's directed.
I do not care if they go to every bar on South St and close it up on a Gentlemens Club later so long as they show up ready to play. There are current reports and "talk" about the players commitment, there is also the on-ice evidence I see which is a continued trend for this team to be wildly inconsistent and plenty of dressing room questions going back to last season and the divide on the room between the vets and the younger core.


Now combine that with the recent Laviolette/Richards questions and there certainly seems to be enough to raise an eyebrow, or two.

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05-09-2011, 04:33 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Honestly, not a bad take. I disagree, but I do find it funny when you are on side and debating with 10 people on the other. Based on what I have read from you, I don't think they are changing your mind. True? That is what I find funny.

Now on to the details:
1. Carter and Richards are going nowhere.
2. Don't disagree with the other personnel (Hartnell, Carcillo, Nodl, Powe, Zherdev, Carle, etc). Consensus on goalie upgrade.
3. Why do you think conditioning is a problem for Richards? Just curious. He didn't seem to slow down on our cup run. He didn't run down this year, he had a wrist issue that caused his poor performance
4. I respect the underlined about you. You certainly don't follow the "norm" and many who you are arguing with, I tend to disagree with the most.

Conclusion: I disagree on Carter/Richards. Respect your opinion. Think noboby is changing your mind. However, the more I read of you, the more I see what you see. Cheers.
Just call me the reverend. And if you look back on many of my observations, they are pretty spot on with the players. If Carter or Richards is not moved it has the potential to hang over the head of this organization since the Lindros era. I think we all remember that fiasco.

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05-09-2011, 04:40 PM
  #162
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Dude, you're obsessed with hating Carter.

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05-09-2011, 04:42 PM
  #163
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This isnt going to be a popular post, but I agree with taking the C off of Richards and handing it to a vet (Pronger the most obvious option).

I think if he didnt have the responsibility of being captain, and dealing with the media, and being the face of the franchise..then he could concentrate on just going out there and playing his guts out. He doesnt have to worry about speaking for the team etc. It could be a weight off of his shoulders?

Hes young, let him just go play...he can worry about being captain later in his career.

not a knock on Richards....just my 2 cents.

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05-09-2011, 04:44 PM
  #164
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Just call me the reverend. And if you look back on many of my observations, they are pretty spot on with the players. If Carter or Richards is not moved it has the potential to hang over the head of this organization since the Lindros era. I think we all remember that fiasco.
I wish I disagreed with you more. Sadly, I am starting to come to the darkside:


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05-09-2011, 04:58 PM
  #165
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Dude, you're obsessed with hating Carter.
Don't hate on the hater.

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05-09-2011, 05:03 PM
  #166
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I wish I disagreed with you more. Sadly, I am starting to come to the darkside:



I do not want to dislike this team, or the players. I just get frustrated watching the same thing reoccur each year, sometimes it is the little changes that matter. Look at what Vancouver did. With Philly I think it is a little more significant, but of course that is my .02 cents to get a goalie.

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05-09-2011, 05:46 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
The problem with Richards is that, when he isn't effective on the ice (such as the recent playoffs), his leadership is also ineffective.
Well a couple weeks ago, it was speculated here that he was injured. If he has a bum wrist, that explains his ineffective play.

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Richards is the captain, he needs to take the responsibility for it. That's just the way it is.
Not in the eyes of his fanboyz (and fangirl LOL). For them, he's only responsible for the good stuff.

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05-09-2011, 05:47 PM
  #168
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This isnt going to be a popular post, but I agree with taking the C off of Richards and handing it to a vet (Pronger the most obvious option).

I think if he didnt have the responsibility of being captain, and dealing with the media, and being the face of the franchise..then he could concentrate on just going out there and playing his guts out. He doesnt have to worry about speaking for the team etc. It could be a weight off of his shoulders?

Hes young, let him just go play...he can worry about being captain later in his career.

not a knock on Richards....just my 2 cents.
I think it would be humiliating to him. It's not like taking the C from a player who you are about to trade. Taking it from someone who is pretty high profile in the league and who is consistently talked about as a great leader and has been from his teens till now would be wrong and I think it would devastate him. I don't care if they stop him from doing interviews or at the very least, get him some coaching to deal with the media better. He won't do what Pronger does, today for instance, Pronger repeatedly mocked Pannachio and he always makes sure to say "TIM" so everyone knew who he was making fun of. There aren't many who can get away with that. If it means he has to use more cliches instead of really thinking about his answers, do it.

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05-09-2011, 05:53 PM
  #169
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Not being anywhere near Philadelphia it's a bit hard to really have an opinion, but when Richards was named captain Pronger wasn't on the team, right? Gagné made it clear he had no interest of being the captain iirc. I don't know if Timonen made it known as well, otherwise he'd been my choic back then as I think that captaincy is generally something you earn through some years of dedication so I thought at the time that Richards got it a little too early, but so far in his time as captain he hasn't done anything to show that he doesn't deserve that c. I don't care what is being said on radio shows or written on various blogs. I've been around teams long enough to know that within the group you don't give a **** about what those ****ers write or think about you. And unless there's some disturbances within the team because of Richards and the way he handles himself and/or his role so far what he's done on the ice is good enough for me.

As far as I know there has never been any clear divisions within the team like that (not that everyone are always best friends, but you know what I mean).
No argument here on most of what you wrote. But they just got dusted by a lesser team, and looked mirthless in doing so. The Captain needs to feel some of that.

And I'm not sure anyone should care when Richards got the C. The fact is that Pronger is the leader, and deserves the letter.

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05-09-2011, 05:55 PM
  #170
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No argument here on most of what you wrote. But they just got dusted by a lesser team, and looked mirthless in doing so. The Captain needs to feel some of that.

And I'm not sure anyone should care when Richards got the C. The fact is that Pronger is the leader, and deserves the letter.
Actually, that's your outside opinion. You have no way to prove it's fact.

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05-09-2011, 06:01 PM
  #171
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No argument here on most of what you wrote. But they just got dusted by a lesser team, and looked mirthless in doing so. The Captain needs to feel some of that.

And I'm not sure anyone should care when Richards got the C. The fact is that Pronger is the leader, and deserves the letter.
The only fact is that Pronger has the louder voice and enjoys humiliating guys like Timmeh, Sam, Anthony and Chuck. He is also far more outgoing and has been that way since he was drafted, if not before. Again, you're talking completely different personalities here and I don't think either of them are going to change. Richards isn't suddenly going to start yelling and screaming and Pronger isn't going to shrink into a corner.

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05-09-2011, 06:01 PM
  #172
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BroadStBull No. But Lavy and 18 not always on same pg. RT @scotts948: @BroadStBull any truth to rumor that lavy & Richards aren't on speaking terms?

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05-09-2011, 06:51 PM
  #173
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Here's my opinion, which is worth more than anyone's here because:
a) I've followed the Flyers since 1974
b) I've been to a Flyers game in Philadelphia, even though I live in Montreal

There may well be problems with Richards as a captain. It would explain some of why this season went deep south so quickly. But for now, I believe that Richards is a very good leader. He is made better as a leader when veterans like Pronger, Timonen and Briere -- who have all worn the C elsewhere -- are supporting him. Especially Pronger, who can do the media thing and let Richards focus more on the team.

That being said, if (conditional sentence) Richards and Laviolette did part ways opinion-wise, it is the responsibility of both, as well as of Holmgren, to resolve their issues or else one of them needs a new home.

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05-09-2011, 07:07 PM
  #174
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Can any of the mods put up a thread every other day or so for each player?
I saw the idea on the Pens board.
A poll, scale 1-10, how did the guy perform based on his ability etc.
Do we want him back, just discussing the player in general.

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05-09-2011, 07:54 PM
  #175
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That being said, if (conditional sentence) Richards and Laviolette did part ways opinion-wise, it is the responsibility of both, as well as of Holmgren, to resolve their issues or else one of them needs a new home.
Let me first say that I don't have a clue as to whether or not there is really a rift between Richards and Lavi but, if there is, I find that to be a major problem. When do we stop running coaches out of here?

I understood that Hitch had to go, and I understood that the Stevens hire was probably the right thing to do at the time. And letting go of Stevens was pretty much a no-brainer, as it was painfully obvious his "system" was not one you could win with. But now there are problems with Lavi?

If this is true, I find it particularly telling that the one coach the players were so upset about losing (Stevens) is also the one coach that doesn't have a Stanley Cup on his resume (read:winning pedigree). That's not a very good sign.

If there is a rift then, yes, Lavi and Richards need to get together and fix it. But the last thing this organization needs right now is to run yet another successful coach out of town. Lavi had a horrible playoffs (just like the rest of the team), but he isn't the problem here.

At some point, when the same consistency or communication issues keep cropping up over 4+ years, there needs to be the realization that it's not the coach who is the issue. Now, I'm not saying Richards is an issue either (and this may all just be a bunch of hogwash), but it's time for the players that are here to just shut up, run the system that's in place and get the job done.

Enough of this "rift" *********, especially from the captain, who the coach needs to buy in completely to what he's selling so that the rest of the team falls in line.


Last edited by Shadow Flyer: 05-09-2011 at 08:01 PM.
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