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Old
05-19-2011, 02:53 PM
  #726
Jester
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Don't like the Shelley deal but they at least were trying to address a need. Fighting and having someone on the bench in the EC who can be a heavy is a necessity IMO. It was similar to the deal for Eminger though, Shelley always played well against Philly, they fell in love with what they thought he would bring to the team and he did not fulfill expectations. I agree.
He fulfilled my expectations to a T... they just overpaid the value of that role in the NHL. In the modern NHL, the role of the "enforcer" is completely devoid of significant value. There is too much talent on rosters for those guys to play a regular shift, and even when they are out there the instigator nixes their ability to serve the purpose they once did.

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05-19-2011, 02:54 PM
  #727
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He fulfilled my expectations to a T... they just overpaid the value of that role in the NHL. In the modern NHL, the role of the "enforcer" is completely devoid of significant value. There is too much talent on rosters for those guys to play a regular shift, and even when they are out there the instigator nixes their ability to serve the purpose they once did.
See, we agree.

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05-19-2011, 03:54 PM
  #728
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See, we agree.

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Old
05-19-2011, 04:00 PM
  #729
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Not a fan of his either, but his contract is either in the AHL which is where Bobrovsky needs to get all the starts or with the big club. That contract could very well be the worst deal Holmgren signed, and I am thankful of what he did last season. This is part of the bigger problem in the organization, they hold onto guys or resign them due to loyalty. Those who may disagree have not been around this organization long enough. I am all for loyalty, but at some point you have to do the right thing for the team.
I am excited at the prospect of a Bobrovsky led Phantoms team. With a couple of young prospects acquired via Carle/Versteeg/Carter/whomever trades. It would be VERY NICE to have a farm team full of NHL ready talent just waiting to break into the NHL. And also winning. It is very important for our future to get used to winning, you don't want a group of losers as your back up plan.

I really hope we replenish the system this offseason. That would be #2 on my list. It would be close to #1, but goalie has to trump everything else.

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05-19-2011, 04:31 PM
  #730
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Richards documented problems? Where? I see some pictures of him posing with a few ladies and all of a sudden he has a problem? But Patrick Kane is salt of the earth after beating up a cabbie for a few bucks cause he was "loaded"? How about our GM's alcoholism? How about MANY MANY NHL Players admitted substance abuse issues? NOBODY is saying Richards has a problem with Alcohol or drugs. I have NO PROBLEM with guys going out for beers on off game nights, etc. I lived in MOntreal, all the Habs including the captain would be at the bars after games and on off non game nights. You make it sound like him drinking now and then or banging a few ladies makes him less a captain. How about OV? Are we questioning his work ethic with his "documented partying"? I don't buy it.

As for lack of strength training/conditioning. OK, I'll take hardest working player on the ice every shift for 5.5 million Alex. Seriously, he has no problem with strength as he destroys anyone he hits, he rarely misses games due to injury, he rarely loses the battles around the boards due to poor strength.

Want Mike Richards workout - here you go:
http://www.menshealth.com/celebrity-...chael-richards

Doesn't take hockey seriously? For real? Come on now. The guy is so well liked in the room because he is captain serious (Like Toews, who was hailed as the "next Mike Richards"). The players would run through a wall for him because they know how hard he works

I am surprised at how poorly you think of him. Man, that is some serious allegations you are laying. I am surprised. Wow.
This is a bit of an overreaction. Nowhere did I say Richards had a alcohol or drug problem. I said he parties too much which is a function of his not taking his career seriously enough. He needs to grow up, not go into rehab.

He is not Captain Serious, he's 'Captain Laid Back and Introverted Who Spends His Summers Fishing and Drinking Beer While Everyone Else Works Out in Voorhees.'

Stevens lost his job largely because he lost the veterans in the room (Pronger, Timonen, Briere - and Knuble before he left) - which happened because he was too lax on the youngsters partying and showing up hungover and unable to practice fully, etc. There was a lot written at the time about it and I've seen confirmation from a Flyer that this was true.

The split in the room was basically the guys who thought the captain should be setting a better example, and those who were willing to let it slide.

As far as his exercise program in Men's Health, I'm sure his agent submitted it without even running it by him. There are lots of videos of Crosby, Recchi, Stamkos and Subban working out online too, but that would constitute evidence they actually perform the routines.

My biggest criticism of Richards is that while guys like Carter, and our competitors like Crosby and Stamkos, are working out hard in the off season to put on weight and improve their speed, Mike shows up with no muscle definition at camp every fall and works himself into shape.

Everyone shows up early for TCamp to work out, except the Captain, who shows up at the last minute.

I don't hate Richards, it's just time for him to leave Falstaff behind and get ready for Agincourt....

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Old
05-19-2011, 05:04 PM
  #731
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Nabokov played in the WC this year? I thought it was Konstantin BARULIN?
My bad i meant to say in the KHL. He had something like a 303 GAA and 890 SV%. Im not sure if he played at all in the WC, i think i wrote that because i was thinking about international play like the olympics.

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Old
05-19-2011, 05:08 PM
  #732
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This is a bit of an overreaction. Nowhere did I say Richards had a alcohol or drug problem. I said he parties too much which is a function of his not taking his career seriously enough. He needs to grow up, not go into rehab.

He is not Captain Serious, he's 'Captain Laid Back and Introverted Who Spends His Summers Fishing and Drinking Beer While Everyone Else Works Out in Voorhees.'

Stevens lost his job largely because he lost the veterans in the room (Pronger, Timonen, Briere - and Knuble before he left) - which happened because he was too lax on the youngsters partying and showing up hungover and unable to practice fully, etc. There was a lot written at the time about it and I've seen confirmation from a Flyer that this was true.

The split in the room was basically the guys who thought the captain should be setting a better example, and those who were willing to let it slide.

As far as his exercise program in Men's Health, I'm sure his agent submitted it without even running it by him. There are lots of videos of Crosby, Recchi, Stamkos and Subban working out online too, but that would constitute evidence they actually perform the routines.

My biggest criticism of Richards is that while guys like Carter, and our competitors like Crosby and Stamkos, are working out hard in the off season to put on weight and improve their speed, Mike shows up with no muscle definition at camp every fall and works himself into shape.

Everyone shows up early for TCamp to work out, except the Captain, who shows up at the last minute.

I don't hate Richards, it's just time for him to leave Falstaff behind and get ready for Agincourt....
Sorry, hate to sound like Cartsie but is this opinion or fact?

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Old
05-19-2011, 05:19 PM
  #733
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So...Richards is lazy because there aren't videos of him working out online?




July 1 can't get here fast enough.

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Old
05-19-2011, 05:25 PM
  #734
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He is not Captain Serious, he's 'Captain Laid Back and Introverted Who Spends His Summers Fishing and Drinking Beer While Everyone Else Works Out in Voorhees.'
This really isn't true... at all. Only a handful of players ever stay local.

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Old
05-19-2011, 05:49 PM
  #735
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This really isn't true... at all. Only a handful of players ever stay local.
Yup, most go home for at least part of the summer whether it's North America or back to Europe.

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Old
05-19-2011, 06:00 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
This is a bit of an overreaction. Nowhere did I say Richards had a alcohol or drug problem. I said he parties too much which is a function of his not taking his career seriously enough. He needs to grow up, not go into rehab.

He is not Captain Serious, he's 'Captain Laid Back and Introverted Who Spends His Summers Fishing and Drinking Beer While Everyone Else Works Out in Voorhees.'

Stevens lost his job largely because he lost the veterans in the room (Pronger, Timonen, Briere - and Knuble before he left) - which happened because he was too lax on the youngsters partying and showing up hungover and unable to practice fully, etc. There was a lot written at the time about it and I've seen confirmation from a Flyer that this was true.

The split in the room was basically the guys who thought the captain should be setting a better example, and those who were willing to let it slide.

As far as his exercise program in Men's Health, I'm sure his agent submitted it without even running it by him. There are lots of videos of Crosby, Recchi, Stamkos and Subban working out online too, but that would constitute evidence they actually perform the routines.

My biggest criticism of Richards is that while guys like Carter, and our competitors like Crosby and Stamkos, are working out hard in the off season to put on weight and improve their speed, Mike shows up with no muscle definition at camp every fall and works himself into shape.

Everyone shows up early for TCamp to work out, except the Captain, who shows up at the last minute.

I don't hate Richards, it's just time for him to leave Falstaff behind and get ready for Agincourt....
Who died and made
You craig carton?

Seriously, where did
you see players were showing up too hungover to practice? That is a major exaggeration. Big difference between not getting proper rest or working between games to being hungover.


Last edited by lancer247: 05-19-2011 at 06:27 PM.
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Old
05-19-2011, 06:14 PM
  #737
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When people can't rationally explain their dislike for a player because of his performance on the ice, they'll invent reasons off the ice, or resort to vague, unproveable claims.

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Old
05-19-2011, 06:18 PM
  #738
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No one cares about your off-season routines when you're a Cup winner.

If only Carter had buried that late third period chance in Game 6 last year... (obvious follow-up: and they had gone on to win Game 7)

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Old
05-19-2011, 09:10 PM
  #739
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I proposed a trade over on the Columbus board and they seemed pretty interested. It was

Carle and Versteeg for Methot who is a rfa and the rights to Upshall

What do you guys think of that?

Edit: we should save a good amount from switching carle with methot

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05-19-2011, 09:18 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I proposed a trade over on the Columbus board and they seemed pretty interested. It was

Carle and Versteeg for Methot who is a rfa and the rights to Upshall

What do you guys think of that?

Edit: we should save a good amount from switching carle with methot
That's terrible value for them. With the money needed to sign Upshall it wouldn't save much money either.

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Old
05-19-2011, 09:26 PM
  #741
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That's terrible value for them. With the money needed to sign Upshall it wouldn't save much money either.
Yea we probably wouldn't save much going to upshall from versteeg. But imo he brings a different style of play than versteeg that we need.

Edit: hartnell could also be moved for extra space, but thats another topic

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Old
05-20-2011, 04:16 AM
  #742
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Nabokov injured himself (pulled groin iirc) in the WHC's, Barulin didn't exactly steal the starter role.

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05-20-2011, 04:21 AM
  #743
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Nabokov injured himself (pulled groin iirc) in the WHC's, Barulin didn't exactly steal the starter role.
And he's going to be in training camp? What's his injury?

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05-20-2011, 06:34 AM
  #744
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And he's going to be in training camp? What's his injury?
Don't know about the training camp but he pulled his groin in a group stage game against Denmark.

http://www.eurohockey.com/article/57...th-injury.html

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Old
05-20-2011, 07:35 AM
  #745
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This really isn't true... at all. Only a handful of players ever stay local.
I agree - I live in Ottawa and Claude Giroux spends the majority of his summer here with his trainer Tony Greco, who also trains Powe.

P.S. Who comes to camp in the BEST shape of ANYONE? The most hated Flyer of them all, one Jeff Carter. Carter is shredded and ready for a playoff grind from day 1 of camp.

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05-20-2011, 07:45 AM
  #746
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This is a bit of an overreaction. Nowhere did I say Richards had a alcohol or drug problem. I said he parties too much which is a function of his not taking his career seriously enough. He needs to grow up, not go into rehab.

He is not Captain Serious, he's 'Captain Laid Back and Introverted Who Spends His Summers Fishing and Drinking Beer While Everyone Else Works Out in Voorhees.'

Stevens lost his job largely because he lost the veterans in the room (Pronger, Timonen, Briere - and Knuble before he left) - which happened because he was too lax on the youngsters partying and showing up hungover and unable to practice fully, etc. There was a lot written at the time about it and I've seen confirmation from a Flyer that this was true.

The split in the room was basically the guys who thought the captain should be setting a better example, and those who were willing to let it slide.

As far as his exercise program in Men's Health, I'm sure his agent submitted it without even running it by him. There are lots of videos of Crosby, Recchi, Stamkos and Subban working out online too, but that would constitute evidence they actually perform the routines.

My biggest criticism of Richards is that while guys like Carter, and our competitors like Crosby and Stamkos, are working out hard in the off season to put on weight and improve their speed, Mike shows up with no muscle definition at camp every fall and works himself into shape.

Everyone shows up early for TCamp to work out, except the Captain, who shows up at the last minute.

I don't hate Richards, it's just time for him to leave Falstaff behind and get ready for Agincourt....
I would consider Richards not coming to camp in shape or partying an issue if I thought it was a "problem". So, is alcohol causing a problem in his hockey career? I doubt that. He is not "laid back" - he is "quiet". Anyone who watches Richards play hockey has to admit he is anything but "laid back".

I won't sit here and say I know anything about Richards off-season workouts. I doubt however he sits on his dock drinking beer and eating doritos from June-August. He isn't perfect, but I will wait to see how he does next year before I join the "run him out of town" movement.

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Old
05-20-2011, 07:53 AM
  #747
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I would consider Richards not coming to camp in shape or partying an issue if I thought it was a "problem". So, is alcohol causing a problem in his hockey career? I doubt that. He is not "laid back" - he is "quiet". Anyone who watches Richards play hockey has to admit he is anything but "laid back".

I won't sit here and say I know anything about Richards off-season workouts. I doubt however he sits on his dock drinking beer and eating doritos from June-August. He isn't perfect, but I will wait to see how he does next year before I join the "run him out of town" movement.
Last year the man played over 130 games. I couldn't care less if he sat on the deck and drank all day. 130 games is a serious amount of work on the body.

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05-20-2011, 07:56 AM
  #748
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I am excited at the prospect of a Bobrovsky led Phantoms team. With a couple of young prospects acquired via Carle/Versteeg/Carter/whomever trades. It would be VERY NICE to have a farm team full of NHL ready talent just waiting to break into the NHL. And also winning. It is very important for our future to get used to winning, you don't want a group of losers as your back up plan.

I really hope we replenish the system this offseason. That would be #2 on my list. It would be close to #1, but goalie has to trump everything else.
I would also like the coaches and GM to all be on the same pages. Each team should in theory work within the same system, in this case Laviolette's system for forecheck. They really need to focus on getting back to replenishing some talent in the AHL, develop a winning attitude, and then be able to seamlessly transition players to the NHL level in a couple years as some of the other players contracts expire.

You nailed it on the second part: 1) goalie, 2) make moves to gain cap space, 3) replenish the system with some legit prospects and picks and keep developing the farm system, 4) actually put together an organizational plan to make sure players are ready for the transition. For many years the organization has been devoid on a consistent plan to have a healthy farm system.

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Old
05-20-2011, 08:11 AM
  #749
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I'm pretty sure at the Summer Camp for Team Canada in '09, Babcock said he was most impressed with Richards, so he obviously did something right. I know, I know -- that wasn't the Flyers training camp, but let's stop whining about him. Should he be better with the media? Yes. The problems with Richards aren't on the ice, though.

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05-20-2011, 09:12 AM
  #750
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I agree - I live in Ottawa and Claude Giroux spends the majority of his summer here with his trainer Tony Greco, who also trains Powe.

P.S. Who comes to camp in the BEST shape of ANYONE? The most hated Flyer of them all, one Jeff Carter. Carter is shredded and ready for a playoff grind from day 1 of camp.
Like to see Carter, Hartnell, and Richards take the summer and work with Greco. Love the fact that guys want to take the summer off, but as athletes they need to maintain conditioning and endurance. I am still convinced to this point right now is the team was ill-prepared to handle Laviolette's play and intensity because they "believed" they were in top shape, but in reality they were not up to the task mentally or physically.

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