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05-23-2011, 12:59 PM
  #901
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So, Vokoun isn't a legit goalie?

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05-23-2011, 01:00 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah thats what I was trying to get at. There is no doubt that Bobrovsky is a talented kid. He isnt ready for #1 duty both mentally and physically. But I also think within 2 years with the right coaching, mentoring from the right vet he will be ready within 2 years.
Signing another goalie to a 5 year deal would definitely tell Bobrovsky we dont think you will be #1 material.
If we sign Bryzgalov to a 5 year deal, Bobrovsky will play out his contract and most likely turn down his QO in 2 years because he wants to be a starter. IMO
Well, if he that good I am sure plenty of teams would make him an offer and you will be able to either match or take the picks. Win-win. They also have Ericsson in the background. It has nothing to do with him not being #1 material, it is bringing him along through the proper mentoring process. It showed this season, he is not ready to play 60 games a year. He has flaws, fix them, let him gain some confidence and they will have a goalie for when Bryzgalov is done, basically guaranteeing yourself having the goaltending issue fixed for the next 10 years.

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05-23-2011, 01:02 PM
  #903
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So, Vokoun isn't a legit goalie?
Given the choice I would take Bryzgalov, Vokoun is my secodn choice. If the bidding for Bryzgalov starts getting over the maximum of 5 yrs and the annual salary of $6mill you walk away. I still think Vokoun is going to TB, but we'll see.

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05-23-2011, 01:03 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Given the choice I would take Bryzgalov, Vokoun is my secodn choice. If the bidding for Bryzgalov starts getting over the maximum of 5 yrs and the annual salary of $6mill you walk away. I still think Vokoun is going to TB, but we'll see.
There is no way that we should pay any goalie $6M. It's completely unjustifiable the way the market has moved.

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05-23-2011, 01:12 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Okey-dokey, let's cut corners on the goalie then. LOL, have we not been down this road before. Cujo in his prime, nope Vanbiesbruck on the back nine, or Sean Burke, Robert Esche, Martin Biron, Cechmanek......shall we go on??
who in their right mind would waste $6 mill on a goalie. No way is a goalie worth that much. You'd be absolutely retarded to pay Bryz $6 mill.

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05-23-2011, 01:19 PM
  #906
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who in their right mind would waste $6 mill on a goalie. No way is a goalie worth that much. You'd be absolutely retarded to pay Bryz $6 mill.
How about Roberto Luongo? Seems to be working for Vancouver. And considering how bad the goaltending was in this playoffs, and the Leighton miscue in the 2010 playoffs, and the inconsistent goaltending over the last twenty years, do you really want me to answer that question? I think it is pretty obvious why it is imperitive they spend the money on a goalie.

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05-23-2011, 01:30 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
How about Roberto Luongo? Seems to be working for Vancouver. And considering how bad the goaltending was in this playoffs, and the Leighton miscue in the 2010 playoffs, and the inconsistent goaltending over the last twenty years, do you really want me to answer that question? I think it is pretty obvious why it is imperitive they spend the money on a goalie.
Nobody available is as good as Luongo, and doesn't deserve that sort of money. Luongo is also signed until the end of time, so we'll see how that ends up playing out for Vancouver in a few years.

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05-23-2011, 01:32 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
How about Roberto Luongo? Seems to be working for Vancouver. And considering how bad the goaltending was in this playoffs, and the Leighton miscue in the 2010 playoffs, and the inconsistent goaltending over the last twenty years, do you really want me to answer that question? I think it is pretty obvious why it is imperitive they spend the money on a goalie.
Luongo seems to be working for Vancouver? I must have missed it somewhere, but can you remind me what they have won. Thanks

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05-23-2011, 01:50 PM
  #909
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Luongo seems to be working for Vancouver? I must have missed it somewhere, but can you remind me what they have won. Thanks
Luongo has been really shaky a lot of the time in the playoffs. I think that both he and the team have the option to get out of the contract after 7 years but there is no way a goalie out of the current free agents is worth what he's making. If he had to sign a new contract today he wouldn't be get what he's making right now.

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05-23-2011, 01:51 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
How about Roberto Luongo? Seems to be working for Vancouver. And considering how bad the goaltending was in this playoffs, and the Leighton miscue in the 2010 playoffs, and the inconsistent goaltending over the last twenty years, do you really want me to answer that question? I think it is pretty obvious why it is imperitive they spend the money on a goalie.
Luongo has been STRONGLY criticized for his play in Vancouver at times... particularly in the playoffs (reference: 2011 playoffs, Rd 1). He also does not have a 6M cap hit... and is signed to what is probably an untradeable contract.

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05-23-2011, 01:52 PM
  #911
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Luongo has been STRONGLY criticized for his play in Vancouver at times... particularly in the playoffs (reference: 2011 playoffs, Rd 1). He also does not have a 6M cap hit... and is signed to what is probably an untradeable contract.
I believe it ends in 2022. That cap hit of his is going to be a bit of a liability by that time.

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05-23-2011, 02:06 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Given the choice I would take Bryzgalov, Vokoun is my secodn choice.
Agree.

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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
If the bidding for Bryzgalov starts getting over the maximum of 5 yrs and the annual salary of $6mill you walk away. I still think Vokoun is going to TB, but we'll see.
I'm at a point were I'd even go to 8 years term-wise as long as it isn't a higher cap-hit than $5.25mil. Is it worth it? Who knows. But goalies like Bryzgalov don't hit the market too often and when he does, you better get him.

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05-24-2011, 06:05 AM
  #913
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I'd like to have one of:

Vokoun
Bryzgalov
Roloson

make it happen please.

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05-24-2011, 08:25 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan* View Post
Okey-dokey, let's cut corners on the goalie then. LOL, have we not been down this road before. Cujo in his prime, nope Vanbiesbruck on the back nine, or Sean Burke, Robert Esche, Martin Biron, Cechmanek......shall we go on??
I don't get why everyone craps all over Vanbiesbrouck when he was in Philadelphia. He was excellent when he was here. It certainly wasn't his fault that the Flyers lost to the Leafs in the opening round of the playoffs. He gave them every chance to win. It certainly wasn't his fault that his team couldn't buy a goal at the time.

Roman Cechmanek was another good goalie, as much as people slag on him as well. Other than the Buffalo series, he was superb. Once again, it was the team in front of him that couldn't score a goal if their lives depended on it.

Finally, Martin Biron. Once again, another good goalie that gave the team every chance to win. Unfortunately, we had a head coach that was more concerned with being the players' best friend than being a head coach. Biron gave the Flyers a chance to win every night.

The Flyers also have a good one right now in Bobrovsky. I do agree that he could use a mentor to help him fine tune his game. With that being said, I think with a full year of dedicated time with Jeff Reese, that will be more than enough to get Bobrovsky over the hump. Reese has done an excellent job as the goaltending coach in Philadelphia, especially when you consider that he had young Bob who couldn't speak English, Ray Emery and his bad hip, Brian Boucher and his inconsistent play and Michael Leighton and his AHL pedigree. I don't think any goaltending coach could have done better than what Reese has done.

Do I think the Flyers will go out and sign a goaltender? Yes I do. Do I think it will be long term? It will more than likely be a 4 or 5 year deal and I do think it's going to be Bryzgalov. With that being said, I kind of think the Flyers would be better off going after Vokoun in a shorter term deal.

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05-24-2011, 01:19 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Luongo seems to be working for Vancouver? I must have missed it somewhere, but can you remind me what they have won. Thanks
Get back to me in a couple weeks on that one.

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05-24-2011, 01:33 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Finally, Martin Biron. Once again, another good goalie that gave the team every chance to win. Unfortunately, we had a head coach that was more concerned with being the players' best friend than being a head coach. Biron gave the Flyers a chance to win every night..
if Biron didnt get some bad advise from his agent he likely would have resigned with the Flyers. By the time he realized his mistake and fired his agent it was too late.

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05-24-2011, 02:00 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't get why everyone craps all over Vanbiesbrouck when he was in Philadelphia. He was excellent when he was here. It certainly wasn't his fault that the Flyers lost to the Leafs in the opening round of the playoffs. He gave them every chance to win. It certainly wasn't his fault that his team couldn't buy a goal at the time.

Roman Cechmanek was another good goalie, as much as people slag on him as well. Other than the Buffalo series, he was superb. Once again, it was the team in front of him that couldn't score a goal if their lives depended on it.

Finally, Martin Biron. Once again, another good goalie that gave the team every chance to win. Unfortunately, we had a head coach that was more concerned with being the players' best friend than being a head coach. Biron gave the Flyers a chance to win every night.
Meltzer had a real good write up about this. I've brought it up myself in numerous threads about Beezer and those backbreaking shortsiders. I recall all three goalies and particularly Beezer and his lack of being clutch in that series. He was good but not exceptional and that has been our problem for eons now. We need clutch goaltending when it matter most. With all 3 of the above they fell short when it really mattered.

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I bring all this up in light of the never ending debate over the Flyers' goaltending. It's not the stats but the situational goaltending that matters. That is why John Vanbiesbrouck's name always gets thrown into the list of Philadelphia goalies who didn't get the job done in the postseason. Even though he allowed just nine goals in a six-game series against Toronto in 1999, two of the goals he gave up were short-side goals in games that were tied at the time, and ended up deciding the games. Statistically, Beezer was outstanding in that series. In the reality of the four times the Flyers lost, he needed to be just a little bit better when the games were on the line.

Goaltending is the toughest position on the ice. Every goalie has his fair share of shots he'd like to have back, but the best goaltenders have a knack for avoiding ill-timed soft goals that drain a team of its energy. Instead, the best goalies seem to come up with the types of saves at key moments of the game where he'd have been the last one to blame if the puck had gone in. He picks the club up when there are coverage breakdowns or turnovers in tied or one-goal games. He gives the club confidence that it can go to the attack without worrying that every time the puck goes over the defensive blueline, potential disaster lurks around the corner.

Paul Holmgren is fond of saying that goaltending is a reflection of team play. He's right. But it's a two-way street. Team play is also a reflection of goaltending.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...&blogger_id=45

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05-24-2011, 02:00 PM
  #918
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I'm pretty sure our first available draft pick this year is #84 overall.

ARGH.

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05-24-2011, 02:03 PM
  #919
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if Biron didnt get some bad advise from his agent he likely would have resigned with the Flyers. By the time he realized his mistake and fired his agent it was too late.
Biron was a vanilla goalie...he's adequate and can be great if he plays Montreal who beat up on his beloved Nordiques (hence the motivation factor) but I recall when the Flyers were debating letting him go it kind of came down to the fact that they didn't think he had the mental fortitude to be a number one on any consistent basis. He is so far proving that and his agent is not the main reason....

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05-24-2011, 02:04 PM
  #920
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Yeah, Biron is better than Boucher but he definitely isn't the answer.

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05-24-2011, 02:31 PM
  #921
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Yeah, Biron is better than Boucher but he definitely isn't the answer.
I think he's a tad better than Boucher but he has his spurt of good games then gets lazy too. At least he's getting paid his worth unlike LOL-EIGHTON!

Sadly, we would have probably had a cup victory with Emery if he was healthy. Emery I think is/was more of that "situational" goalie that Melzter talks about that we've lacked all this time.


Quote:
That's a goalie's conundrum. He's only human, and that's OK -- so long as he acts superhuman at certain critical times. That's what the Flyers have not truly had for years: a goaltender who consistently walks that tightrope in the playoffs.

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05-24-2011, 03:52 PM
  #922
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More Eklund...so where did Bryzgalov say he would "love" to be a flyer?

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4. Ilya Bryzgalov...

Yes he has come out and said he would love to be a Flyer, and I get the impression the Flyers won't settle for anything less than the best goalie available this summer. There is a mandate from above, and when that happens in Philly...stuff happens. This will mean losing some guys however...or not being able to bring some guys back. (This has more to do with the Carter speculation than anything else right now) Also when you consider the Leafs have interest in Bryzgalov as well

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...s-More/1/36022


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05-24-2011, 05:06 PM
  #923
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More Eklund...so where did Bryzgalov say he would "love" to be a flyer?
Timmeh's super secret CIA source said Bryz would love to be a Flyer so there you have it!

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05-24-2011, 06:06 PM
  #924
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yeah thats what I was trying to get at. There is no doubt that Bobrovsky is a talented kid. He isnt ready for #1 duty both mentally and physically. But I also think within 2 years with the right coaching, mentoring from the right vet he will be ready within 2 years.
Signing another goalie to a 5 year deal would definitely tell Bobrovsky we dont think you will be #1 material.
If we sign Bryzgalov to a 5 year deal, Bobrovsky will play out his contract and most likely turn down his QO in 2 years because he wants to be a starter. IMO
While I'm good with picking up Vokoun, there's nothing wrong with making Bob earn the #1. I'm very leery at putting the franchise's eggs in the Bob basket. Plus, if Holmgren were to sign Bryz, he's not going to play 82 games for the next 5 years.

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05-24-2011, 06:34 PM
  #925
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I think he's a tad better than Boucher but he has his spurt of good games then gets lazy too. At least he's getting paid his worth unlike LOL-EIGHTON!

Sadly, we would have probably had a cup victory with Emery if he was healthy. Emery I think is/was more of that "situational" goalie that Melzter talks about that we've lacked all this time.
A tad? Dude is a career .911 SVPCT and only has one "bad" season in a career spanning more than a decade. Say whatever you want about Biron, but give the man his due... he's produced good goal play for pretty much his entire career.

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