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Old
05-07-2011, 05:49 PM
  #26
Polakdave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
He also never got to play in front of Craig Anderson, and never got to play with all the Bingo callups as well, Regin sucked all year when he played no doubt, but at that time in the season, was there any player who didn't suck? Feel free to single out Regin, but he was stuck playing with Alexei Kovalev, im rather to see how Regin plays with the likes of a Butler, Greening, Condra, etc.

My opinion is that if Regin didn't get injured and got to play with 1. Bingo callups, 2. Craig Anderson backstopping, he would have finished his season strong, of course its just an opinion. We'll see this upcoming season, don't worry ill be starting the "kiss Regins ass and apologise" thread next season if it all comes true, and feel free to call me out of it doesnt.
Tots behind you on this one. In my NHL season for next year, Regin's on a point per game pace as our #2 centre between Leino and Alfredsson.

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05-07-2011, 08:02 PM
  #27
DefenseMinister
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Feel free to cling to scenarios that have little evidence of being plausible. He can play in the NHL, but as a checking line centre who can chip in a little offensively from time to time. He'll be able to do this because he skates well, is hardworking and is smart. But as far as producing offensively at this level? That's just wishful thinking by a small group of fans.

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Old
05-07-2011, 08:43 PM
  #28
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Reagin is something in your blood that makes you allergic to hay, so if Regin ever gets in a fight and throws some good punches, something involving that and Haymaker could be worked around with.

God damn I make good posts.

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05-07-2011, 08:44 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
Feel free to cling to scenarios that have little evidence of being plausible. He can play in the NHL, but as a checking line centre who can chip in a little offensively from time to time. He'll be able to do this because he skates well, is hardworking and is smart. But as far as producing offensively at this level? That's just wishful thinking by a small group of fans.
Way too early to tell. He showed several flashes that he could play at a high level and I think writing him off after one bad year is not the way to go about it

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05-07-2011, 09:10 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Way too early to tell. He showed several flashes that he could play at a high level and I think writing him off after one bad year is not the way to go about it
My own view is that he's just a replaceable piece. I've never seen any signs of high level offensive ability. He's also getting well up there, I'd actually be suprised to see him back after this year, but I'd love to be wrong.

It'd be great to see him score 25 goals, but I doubt he can.

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05-07-2011, 10:31 PM
  #31
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Old
05-08-2011, 06:51 AM
  #32
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
Or more accurately, didn't score more or less at all the entire season. The small group of fans clinging to the ridiculously small sample size that he played well at one point more than a season ago sound like the same type of people who kept bringing up the fact that Heatley once played like a multi-dimensional player for 10 games when Spezza was hurt 5 years ago.

I think we should think about giving full time contributing players nicknames, as opposed to bubble NHLers.
He didn't play the entire season. He played the first 2/3's and missed the last one due to injury.

Only two players on the entire team scored at an adequate pace through that entire period of time (Karlsson and Kelly). Spezza, Alfie, Kovalev, Fisher, Michalek, Gonchar, Regin, Foligno, etc were all well under their projections. The teams system collapsed for large stretches early in the season, the team couldn't recover the puck, break out or sustain offensive pressure. That's why nobody could score and why the coaching staff is gone.

I'm not using his postseason last year to project the rest of his career. He's not a goalscoring winger that will play with Spezza and it's a testament to his hockey sense and skill level that he was able to be successful at it. I'm using the skill and hockey sense he's shown over the past 2 years vs. anybody we've seen over that time and previous to that to compare him with offensively (ie: Fisher, Michalek, Cullen, Vermette, Schaefer, Smolinski, White, Bonk, etc). His offensive skills and hockey sense rate very highly amongst that group. He'll become a valuable 2nd line player who can develop chemistry with talented linemates.

Do you think you're going to bait anybody with this thoughtless, reactionary shtick? ... Would you care to offer any actual analysis of his game or would you just prefer to write comments that seem like they should be read by Lowell Green's angry, older audience complaining about how kids today get coddled at every turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
He also never got to play in front of Craig Anderson, and never got to play with all the Bingo callups as well, Regin sucked all year when he played no doubt, but at that time in the season, was there any player who didn't suck? Feel free to single out Regin, but he was stuck playing with Alexei Kovalev, im rather to see how Regin plays with the likes of a Butler, Greening, Condra, etc.

My opinion is that if Regin didn't get injured and got to play with 1. Bingo callups, 2. Craig Anderson backstopping, he would have finished his season strong, of course its just an opinion. We'll see this upcoming season, don't worry ill be starting the "kiss Regins ass and apologise" thread next season if it all comes true, and feel free to call me out of it doesnt.
The struggles early this season didn't have to do with personnel or goaltending. The goaltending was actually fine up until around January.
They were completely unprepared for the start of the season and looked like a total cluster****. They put themselves back together for a month, tragedy strikes and they fall apart again. They put themselves back together again, only to have Spezza go down and Elliott blow up.

Regin played very well with Kovalev. It was when he got stuck with pluggers that he had more difficulties offensively, because he's not going to thrive in dump-n-chase. But unfortunately for him, while people like Defense Minister were individually blaming Regin for the teams lack of offense in one thread... Spezza in another... Alfie in another... Kovalev in another... everybody else in their own individual threads --- > without ever being able to see the forest through the trees. Basically, each slump saw the established players stay on offensive lines and Regin (or Foligno) get demoted to the 4th line. The teams lack of structure and constantly winding up on the 4th line were probably the biggest contributors to Regin's season. He actually had a 9 point in 10 game streak with Kovalev early in the year, just like many other streaks he's had that resemble Fisher's streaks. Only Fisher got to keep his spot on the 2nd line and have more streaks, while Regin would up with Winchester.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
My own view is that he's just a replaceable piece. I've never seen any signs of high level offensive ability. He's also getting well up there, I'd actually be suprised to see him back after this year, but I'd love to be wrong.

It'd be great to see him score 25 goals, but I doubt he can.
Are you expecting Martin Havlat "high level offensive ability"? ... Because he doesn't have it. He's going to be a complimentary offensive player like the ones we've used with 1st line talents to spread out offense in the past.

He isn't primarily a goalscorer, nor is he an up and down winger. He's a playmaking centre, who's goalscoring ability is good enough to make it a play option.

Don't look for Havlat... look for White, Cullen, Vermette, etc. After White made the Sens in his mid-20's, he averaged slightly over 50 pts per 82 games for nearly a decade. If that sounds easily replaceable, take a look at this:

50+ point Sens forwards in 6 post-lockout seasons
Spezza, Alfie, Heatley
Fisher - once (2010)
Vermette - once (2008)
Schaefer - one (2006)


Only 3 other guys did it.

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Old
05-08-2011, 07:52 AM
  #33
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So now because he can't score goals, he's automatically a playmaking centre? Can't recall seeing any evidence of those playmaking abilities at any point last season.

You are correct in saying that none of the Sens forwards were having good years when Regin got his season mercy-killed by injury. But what you haven't acknowledged was that out of all the Sens forwards crummy seasons, Regin's season was by far the worst production-wise. He was teteering on the edge of being a healthy scratch on more than one occasion.

You're the one getting over defensive trying to project production where there hasn't been any to this point. Why can't he just be a good 3rd liner? Nothing wrong with that, Chris Kelly's made a fine career of that.

As for analysis, I thought I laid out exactly what parts of Regin's game leant themselves to him being an ideal 3rd liner at the NHL level. I'm not the one claiming he's something he's clearly not (playmaking centre). When he starts actually making plays that lead to his teammates scoring, then that claim would be a little more accurate.

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05-08-2011, 08:27 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
So now because he can't score goals, he's automatically a playmaking centre? Can't recall seeing any evidence of those playmaking abilities at any point last season.
No, he's a playmaking centre based on play style in NHL games, pre-season games and AHL games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
You are correct in saying that none of the Sens forwards were having good years when Regin got his season mercy-killed by injury. But what you haven't acknowledged was that out of all the Sens forwards crummy seasons, Regin's season was by far the worst production-wise. He was teteering on the edge of being a healthy scratch on more than one occasion.
Really? Do you have an argument to support this that isn't your unfounded opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
You're the one getting over defensive trying to project production where there hasn't been any to this point. Why can't he just be a good 3rd liner? Nothing wrong with that, Chris Kelly's made a fine career of that.
Because Chris Kelly doesn't have the physical skills of Regin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
As for analysis, I thought I laid out exactly what parts of Regin's game leant themselves to him being an ideal 3rd liner at the NHL level. I'm not the one claiming he's something he's clearly not (playmaking centre). When he starts actually making plays that lead to his teammates scoring, then that claim would be a little more accurate.
How did White, Bonk, Smolinski, Schaefer, Fisher, Vermette, Cullen, etc separate themselves from Regin?

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Old
05-08-2011, 09:19 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
No, he's a playmaking centre based on play style in NHL games, pre-season games and AHL games.
What style? The one that doesn't score goals or set them up with any kind of consistency? He's sitting on a 29 point career high in terms of point production. Even if we allow for his teammates' crappy seasons to justify his lack of production, in that scenario, I should be remembering tons of great chances that Regin created for his linemates that they couldn't finish on. Unfortunately, those highlights escape me. I do remember Regin barely being a factor in any game he took part in this year though if that helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Really? Do you have an argument to support this that isn't your unfounded opinion?
The argument is that at the time of his injury, Regin had been outscored by every other forward on the roster and the bulk of the defensemen despite all of their crummy, below average seasons. He had been demoted to the 4th line because of his ineffective play and had flirted with being a healthy scratch on a few occasions. I can't believe I even have to justify this, isn't it pretty much consensus that Regin had one of the most disappointing seasons of any Sen player (and he had plenty of other candidates to compete for that title)? Were you following the same team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Because Chris Kelly doesn't have the physical skills of Regin.
That's debatable since Kelly has produced much more at the AHL and NHL level than Regin ever has and that's not even Kelly's primary skillset. Not sure what you mean by physical skills actually. They both skate well and are versatile. They both work hard, they appear pretty similar to me and Regin should take that as a compliment because I like Chris Kelly a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
How did White, Bonk, Smolinski, Schaefer, Fisher, Vermette, Cullen, etc separate themselves from Regin?
The easy answer is that they scored or set up far more goals than Regin ever has before being inserted into a scoring line role. But also, just because these players spent time playing on the 2nd line because of differing circumstances, doesn't mean that all of them were great in that role.

Generally speaking, Regin earned a shot at playing a more integral offensive role on this team based on his play at the very end of last season. He struggled mightily in the preseason and the ineffectiveness carried over into the season and he looked completely lost most nights. If they simply gave him a more suitable role that played to his strengths instead of trying to shoehorn him as some kind of offensive dynamo, then he should be able to regain his confidence and contribute in a more effective way.

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Old
05-08-2011, 09:26 AM
  #36
Marvelous Manked
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I don't know what you guys think, but I would give Regin what he deserves.

If he comes to camp and produces, I would love to have him as our #2 center or winger.

If he comes to camp and doesn't, he could be used as trade bait or sit in the press box. 4th line maybe, but I would rather both Winchester and Smith before Regin on the 3rd and 4th line.

Discuss.

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Old
05-08-2011, 10:06 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
I don't know what you guys think, but I would give Regin what he deserves.

If he comes to camp and produces, I would love to have him as our #2 center or winger.

If he comes to camp and doesn't, he could be used as trade bait or sit in the press box. 4th line maybe, but I would rather both Winchester and Smith before Regin on the 3rd and 4th line.

Discuss.
It would seem its definitely a make it or break it season for Regin, he had his 2nd year slump and now he does need to step it up right out of camp. I dont see a problem with him being on the third line though, if he turns out to be even be a Pahlsson type player (and I think Regin already has more offensive upside that Pahlsson) I would be very very happy having him on those lines.

To Trent I definitely agree with the unprepared to start the season, hell Clouston even admitted that on his own accord that it was a mistake he made fooling around too long with the training camp roster and not keeping it slim to get his real roster prepared for the season. While Regin did play at his best with Kovalev, its still Kovalev and I'd much rather have him play with a different type of player. Like I said before I'm excited to see him play with the likes of a Butler or Greening or a better UFA player instead.

As for Regin not having any playmaking ability, he had a fair amount of great setups this year, hell a decent amount of Kovalevs goals were great passes by Regin setting up Kovalev with essentially an empty net, so I don't understand how Regin doesn't show playmaking ability as a player.

edit: Plus he injured Phaneuf, which should automatically earn him top line minutes next year.


Last edited by PeterSidorkiewicz: 05-08-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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Old
05-08-2011, 01:06 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
But what you haven't acknowledged was that out of all the Sens forwards crummy seasons, Regin's season was by far the worst production-wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Really? Do you have an argument to support this that isn't your unfounded opinion?
Well, to be fair, from a pure production point of view, he was pretty bad in comparison.

The points-per-minute of all Sens forwards playing more than 20 games:

Jason Spezza - 0.0456
Bobby Butler - 0.0378
Colin Greening - 0.0359
Alex Kovalev - 0.0307
Daniel Alfredsson - 0.0298
Milan Michalek - 0.0277
Erik Condra - 0.0267
Nick Foligno - 0.0266
Ryan Shannon - 0.0265
Chris Kelly - 0.0258
Mike Fisher - 0.0237
Peter Regin - 0.0231
Jesse Winchester - 0.0167
Jarkko Ruutu - 0.0160
Chris Neil - 0.0157
Zack Smith - 0.0130

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Old
05-09-2011, 09:02 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
What style? The one that doesn't score goals or set them up with any kind of consistency? He's sitting on a 29 point career high in terms of point production.
A 29 point season high within his first year and a half as an NHL'er?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
Even if we allow for his teammates' crappy seasons to justify his lack of production, in that scenario, I should be remembering tons of great chances that Regin created for his linemates that they couldn't finish on. Unfortunately, those highlights escape me. I do remember Regin barely being a factor in any game he took part in this year though if that helps.
20 players didn't just coordinate the worst years of their careers... everybody's offensive numbers didn't just suffer because the team was doing everything 95% correctly all the way up the ice and then flubbing scoring chances. The team was a complete cluster**** from our zone all the way up the ice. We couldn't defend, we couldn't recover pucks in our own zone and most importantly we could break out of our own zone to get into the offensive zone enough to create scoring chances.

It was the Craig Hartsburg season all over again. Here's what happened to a stable year-to-year 2nd line producer like Fisher when Hartsburg coached the team for 48 games:

82 game paces
07-08 = 49 pts
08-09 = 34 pts
09-10 = 55 pts

Oh, btw... this was Fisher's first full season in the NHL:
00-01 = 26 pt pace

No doubt if Fisher's rookie season had been followed up by a complete coaching disaster, you'd have concluded that he was finished as a player too, right?

Regin's first year was a 32 pt pace and this season was a 25 pt pace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
The argument is that at the time of his injury, Regin had been outscored by every other forward on the roster and the bulk of the defensemen despite all of their crummy, below average seasons. He had been demoted to the 4th line because of his ineffective play and had flirted with being a healthy scratch on a few occasions. I can't believe I even have to justify this, isn't it pretty much consensus that Regin had one of the most disappointing seasons of any Sen player (and he had plenty of other candidates to compete for that title)? Were you following the same team?
He finished 9th in scoring on the team despite missing the last 1/3 of the season. 3 players above him in scoring were traded away and 2 players passed Regin in scoring after his injury.

So he was 10th in scoring when he was injured; behind Alfie, Spezza, Kovalev, Fisher, Michalek, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kelly, Foligno. With Kelly and Foligno being the only real surprises on that list.

He was demoted to the 4th line because out lineup was full of old veteran players who were locked into their positions as 2nd or 3rd liners... leaving Regin and Foligno to compete for a 2nd or 4th line LW job. Clouston's brilliant lineup shake-ups involved moving youngsters around, so as not to upset the veterans.

He was a healthy scratch on occasion. A gutless young coach was trying to send a message to older players like Kovalev, but didn't have the guts to bench him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
That's debatable since Kelly has produced much more at the AHL and NHL level than Regin ever has and that's not even Kelly's primary skillset. Not sure what you mean by physical skills actually. They both skate well and are versatile. They both work hard, they appear pretty similar to me and Regin should take that as a compliment because I like Chris Kelly a lot.
Uhhh, WHAT?

*Kelly's birthday is 6 months apart from Regin's... and he played half a minor league season before anything I'm posting below happened.

21.5 Kelly = 33 pt /82 gp pace
22.5 Kelly = 52 pt / 82 gp pace
23.5 Kelly = 64 pt / 82 gp pace

22 yo Regin (1st and only AHL season) = 69 pt / 82 game pace

NHL
23 yo Regin = 32 pt / 82 gp pace
24 yo Regin = 25 pt / 82 gp pace

24.5 yo Kelly = 30 pt / 82 gp pace (in the highest scoring NHL season in almost 20 years)
25.5 yo Kelly = 38 pt / 82 gp pace


Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
The easy answer is that they scored or set up far more goals than Regin ever has before being inserted into a scoring line role. But also, just because these players spent time playing on the 2nd line because of differing circumstances, doesn't mean that all of them were great in that role.
That first sentence is quite frankly, one of the biggest pieces of bull**** I have ever read on these boards. It would be easy, but time consuming for me to refute it. You can go to the players pages for those players anywhere (forecaster.ca, hockeydb) and see that they were all 30-ish point players before being put into a scoring role.

They produced over a long period of time. That's all that matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
I don't know what you guys think, but I would give Regin what he deserves.

If he comes to camp and produces, I would love to have him as our #2 center or winger.

If he comes to camp and doesn't, he could be used as trade bait or sit in the press box. 4th line maybe, but I would rather both Winchester and Smith before Regin on the 3rd and 4th line.

Discuss.
This is perfectly reasonable, but I believe that we're going beyond and trying to predict what that outcome will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
To Trent I definitely agree with the unprepared to start the season, hell Clouston even admitted that on his own accord that it was a mistake he made fooling around too long with the training camp roster and not keeping it slim to get his real roster prepared for the season. While Regin did play at his best with Kovalev, its still Kovalev and I'd much rather have him play with a different type of player. Like I said before I'm excited to see him play with the likes of a Butler or Greening or a better UFA player instead.
Ideally, I think Regin would thrive playing with Kovalev and Butler on a power play. It would likely create some problems at ES though. Regardless, I'd be careful getting too excited about some of the end of season hot streaks (especially in comparisons to the long early season cold streaks). They're probably more comparable to the Foligno-Fisher-Shannon lines hot streak due to more open and coordinated gameplay than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Well, to be fair, from a pure production point of view, he was pretty bad in comparison.

The points-per-minute of all Sens forwards playing more than 20 games:

Jason Spezza - 0.0456
Bobby Butler - 0.0378
Colin Greening - 0.0359
Alex Kovalev - 0.0307
Daniel Alfredsson - 0.0298
Milan Michalek - 0.0277
Erik Condra - 0.0267
Nick Foligno - 0.0266
Ryan Shannon - 0.0265
Chris Kelly - 0.0258
Mike Fisher - 0.0237
Peter Regin - 0.0231
Jesse Winchester - 0.0167
Jarkko Ruutu - 0.0160
Chris Neil - 0.0157
Zack Smith - 0.0130
Alfie, Fisher and Kovalev were offensive players who were on the team last season and played during the same time periods as Regin this year... they combined to produce less than 2/3's of what they did last year.

All of the other players on that list benefit from playing when the coaching staff got it's **** together late in the season.

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05-09-2011, 09:54 AM
  #40
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He didn't get 25 goals.

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05-09-2011, 02:34 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BigEyedPhish View Post
How about Regin spelled backwards?

Jk, obviously...


???

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Old
05-09-2011, 04:32 PM
  #42
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His new nickname should definitely be Jakob Silfverberg

Or at least that should be the name of our second line center next year...

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Old
05-09-2011, 05:29 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Alfie, Fisher and Kovalev were offensive players who were on the team last season and played during the same time periods as Regin this year... they combined to produce less than 2/3's of what they did last year.

All of the other players on that list benefit from playing when the coaching staff got it's **** together late in the season.
Fair enough. The other guy just said that Regin had the worst year "production-wise". You accused him of making things up, so I threw out some numbers. No bias, just each forwards per minute production. You can throw out whatever excuses you want, but based on pure production, his season wasn't good at all.

But to account for your points, which are actually good points, you can twist the numbers around a bit. Before Regin's injury, Ottawa scored 131 goals in 59 games (2.22 g/g). After, they scored 59 in 23 (2.57 g/g). That's an increase of 15.8% in points per game. Pro-rating Regin's points at that percentage for those 23 gmes would leave him with 27 points. However, Alfredsson also missed those last 23 games as well due to injury, so you'd have to adjust his numbers. As well, Fisher, Kelly, and Kovalev were traded before "the coaching staff got it's **** together late in the season.", so you'd have to do the same for them for those 23 games. Thus the modified points/minute would be:

Jason Spezza - 0.0456
Bobby Butler - 0.0378
Colin Greening - 0.0359
Alex Kovalev - 0.0322
Daniel Alfredsson - 0.0312
Milan Michalek - 0.0277
Chris Kelly - 0.0270
Erik Condra - 0.0267
Nick Foligno - 0.0266
Ryan Shannon - 0.0265
Mike Fisher - 0.0251
Peter Regin - 0.0245
Jesse Winchester - 0.0167
Jarkko Ruutu - 0.0160
Chris Neil - 0.0157
Zack Smith - 0.0130

Granted, you're absolutely right about Fisher, Kovalev, and Alfredsson regressing more, but that's another argument.

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05-09-2011, 05:34 PM
  #44
aragorn
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I think that Regin already has 3rd line capabilities with 2nd line potential & that is at either C or LW. He has good size & good enough skill & is very responsible defensively & can play top line minutes from time to time but doesn't have the consistency to remain there but that could change.

What he really lacks IMO is strength on draws & to fight for pucks along the boards or in corners & the stength to protect himself against bigger NHL hitters. If he can get stronger on his skates that would go a long way to winning puck battles & getting more shots towards the net. The goals will come for him but I think he is a pass first shoot second kind of player like Silfverberg so it might be important to have a goal scorer playing with them, players that shoot first. IMO Silfverberg is closer to playing in the NHL than Da Costa.

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05-09-2011, 06:00 PM
  #45
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???
Nice vacation spot... haven't you been? My travel agent told me the beaches are to die for.

On the other hand, I do believe most of us are happy to give Regin another chance. While Trent argues harder than I would, I think his point is valid that the kid is young enough and the team as a whole performed s####y enough that it's too early to throw him under the bus...

by the way, our defense minister and minister of offence will have to co-ordinate one of these days... isn't it time we had a minister of goaltending too??? maybe that's the problem

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05-09-2011, 07:29 PM
  #46
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So many words to defend a position as silly as "Peter Regin deserves to be handed the 2nd line centre role on this team".

You may be the only person I've ever talked to who's willing to overlook so much evidence to be able to make their point. This was just an awful terrible season for him in a year that he had every opportunity to make his mark. There aren't too many players in this league that are just handed a Top 6 role without first showing that deserve it. For lack of any better options, Regin got his shot. And he blew it. Now he's still young and he has time to make amends but after scoring a pathetic 3 goals and coming off major surgery, he gets to go to the back of the line and show everyone that he still has potential. If you're a smart team, you make your plans without him in the mix and hope that he proves you wrong by outplaying these better options either in camp or from a lower position in the lineup at the start of the season. You don't just pencil him in on a whim (which would be the only way to justify giving him a Top 6 spot next year).

What exactly has he accomplished in his career thusfar that makes him above having to prove himself again?

Or should you just expend another 15 paragraphs making excuses again?

He had a terrible year, worse than his teammates' terrible years. If you asked him yourself, he'd say as much. Stop trying to cover it up and sweep it under the rug just because there were other problems on the team.

I still don't understand why you're comparing him to other Sens players in the past that pretty much every fan bemoaned the production of while they were playing on the 2nd line. During the team's most competitive years having 2nd line centre options such as Smolinski, White and Fisher were one of the reasons the team couldn't take the next step so asking me to try and project Regin somehow into those players doesn't get me all that excited. He hasn't even scraped the production that these guys were doing and they weren't nearly good enough to be in that spot in the first place.

I thought by trading Fisher, we were attempting to upgrade the offense from his spot, not downgrade.

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05-09-2011, 11:44 PM
  #47
Bobby Blowhard
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At this point in his career its not about stats, the lack thereof or making excuses for a dismal season... If you can't see Peter Regin's upside than I'm afraid you're either too focused on the numbers or perhaps not very good at identifying talent outside of the score sheet.

He has shown the little things that give promise on numerous occasions but is yet to turn it into consistent results, not terribly surprising considering his tenure in the league and various other circumstances.

There is no doubt in my mind that he will be a 50 point 2 way player and Im not sure why people are so quick to erase his performance of 09-10 and his performances in international competition.

He'll get there and I cant wait to see it.

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05-10-2011, 12:08 AM
  #48
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I watched Peter Regin play every single minute of his NHL career and outside of a handful of games near the end of the 09/10 season, I cannot for the life of me see what a small group of fans seem to be clinging to.

He's a very good skater, he works hard, is very smart and defensively conscious. Those qualities will serve him well as an NHL player. Every time I watch him, he has "great checking centre" eminating out of him. What is not apparent is why some people continue to label him as having some amazing offensive upside. He doesn't score enough (at any level) and he doesn't have the playmaking abilities that would make up for his lack of goal scoring prowress. People are projecting skills that simply aren't there. He's not very strong on the puck because of his size and he's weak in the faceoff dot (although that's always something you can get better at over time, see Spezza). You can call him a kid if you like but the fact is that he's not some rookie coming out of Junior hockey, he's now 25 and was drafted 7 years ago. It's time to put up or shut up.

Some fans like to make excuses for their favourite players not being able to break through at the NHL level. I tend to be a results guy. And if you're going to be a scorer at the NHL level, chances are that you have demonstrated the ability to tear up lower leagues or you are producing at a higher level in a checking capacity that warrents a promotion onto a scoring line. Regin has done neither of those things so outside of some fanciful notion that he will magically morph into an NHL scorer, the more logical thing to do is put him in the best position to succeed instead of trying to make him into something he's not. He would make an ideal 3rd line centre and the sooner the team slots him there and gives him that defined role so that he can really know his place on the team, the more likely he'll gain confidence and excel there. If he gets to the point where his play dictates a bigger role later on, then that will be great. Just let him earn it in a more organic way.

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05-10-2011, 12:32 AM
  #49
PeterSidorkiewicz
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Regin will be battling for a top 6 position just like every other player you're right, whoever does the best in camp will get the position I assume, Regin is on an even playing field with everyone else most likely.

To think that Regin will bounce back and earn himself a top 6 role on this team isn't that far fetched at all is the thing, look at our roster of forwards. Also, I mean you say you watched every game Regin has been in, so have I for the most part, and its just difference of opinion when looking at the player. We will see THIS season who will be right and who won't be it seems.

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05-10-2011, 01:59 PM
  #50
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Fair enough. The other guy just said that Regin had the worst year "production-wise".

But to account for your points, which are actually good points, you can twist the numbers around a bit. Before Regin's injury, Ottawa scored 131 goals in 59 games (2.22 g/g). After, they scored 59 in 23 (2.57 g/g).
He specified "at the point he was injured" and there's no reason not to. There's no point comparing him to Greening, Butler or even Shannon's whose ice time and production rose greatly late in the season. Anybody who would have played under Hartsburg and not afterwards would have looked like crap in comparison... this season played out exactly the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
What he really lacks IMO is strength on draws & to fight for pucks along the boards or in corners & the stength to protect himself against bigger NHL hitters.
He's average sized, possibly a hair above. He was putting himself in bad situations all season long. He lacks the awareness to protect himself, not necessarily strength.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
So many words to defend a position as silly as "Peter Regin deserves to be handed the 2nd line centre role on this team".
I didn't say "deserves". You're putting words in my mouth to create strawmen.
I have repeatedly said that he will be a 2nd line player on this team and that his future will be on the 2nd line, most likely as a LW/backup offensive C.

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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
You may be the only person I've ever talked to who's willing to overlook so much evidence to be able to make their point. This was just an awful terrible season for him in a year that he had every opportunity to make his mark.
This was an awful year for the entire team, that's why the coaching staff was fired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
There aren't too many players in this league that are just handed a Top 6 role without first showing that deserve it. For lack of any better options, Regin got his shot.
Handed? He had done as much as any non-1st rounder had done to earn his offensive ice time. I believe that you've been creating a bastardized view of the specific histories of offensive players where success achieved was obviously pre-ordained (in hindsight) and failure was as well. (ie: of course career minor T.White was going to beat out 18 yo hockey prodigy Spezza, a shifted to C Havlat and a slightly more proven Herperger for the 2nd line job. I think that was a huge underdog achievement. But at the same time, I think that you'd be completely coloured by everything you know now, unable to separate Jacques calling Spezza a boy, Havlat being unable to play C, etc.) Most players have hit some nadir where it looked like they weren't going anywhere. Your position on this matter reminds me of Greg Gilbert destroying the trade value of the offensive players he was coaching and then Craig Button dealing them away for nothing. They lost Martin St.Louis, Marc Savard and Valeri Bure for nothing because they weren't patient in the face of poor coaching.

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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
If you're a smart team, you make your plans without him in the mix and hope that he proves you wrong by outplaying these better options either in camp or from a lower position in the lineup at the start of the season. You don't just pencil him in on a whim (which would be the only way to justify giving him a Top 6 spot next year).
Ottawa doesn't have the depth or talent to have hard and fast plans. In the short term, we have Michalek - Spezza - Alfie as forwards in the Top-6... and a crapload of young player trying to establish themselves in the NHL jockeying for positioning to find their niche on a specific line. Everything below that top line is a tryout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
What exactly has he accomplished in his career thusfar that makes him above having to prove himself again?
Are you arguing against the Conservative talk radio created strawman of the Liberal sense of entitlement? ... I haven't said there shouldn't be a competition, just that Regin will come out on top of the young forwards we have now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
I still don't understand why you're comparing him to other Sens players in the past that pretty much every fan bemoaned the production of while they were playing on the 2nd line. During the team's most competitive years having 2nd line centre options such as Smolinski, White and Fisher were one of the reasons the team couldn't take the next step so asking me to try and project Regin somehow into those players doesn't get me all that excited.
They provided good secondary scoring on Sens teams that had amongst the best offensive teams in the league.
They weren't holding us back. A lack of veteran leadership from expansion to competitiveness was holding us back. A lack of experience from our key players who we were regularly expecting to lead the team in the playoffs at 19-23 yo was holding us back. Eventually a lack of remotely competent goaltending held us back. The people who were focusing on the lesser parts of the team were deluding themselves because they didn't want to pick on the kids and/or the stars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
He hasn't even scraped the production that these guys were doing and they weren't nearly good enough to be in that spot in the first place.
And lord knows those guys came right out of the womb as 50 point 2nd liners.

How old was each of those players when they actually hit 50 points?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
I thought by trading Fisher, we were attempting to upgrade the offense from his spot, not downgrade.
Are you even paying attention to what this team has? ... It has nothing but crap shoots and question marks behind Michalek-Spezza-Alfie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Blowhard View Post
At this point in his career its not about stats, the lack thereof or making excuses for a dismal season... If you can't see Peter Regin's upside than I'm afraid you're either too focused on the numbers or perhaps not very good at identifying talent outside of the score sheet.

He has shown the little things that give promise on numerous occasions but is yet to turn it into consistent results, not terribly surprising considering his tenure in the league and various other circumstances.

There is no doubt in my mind that he will be a 50 point 2 way player and Im not sure why people are so quick to erase his performance of 09-10 and his performances in international competition.

He'll get there and I cant wait to see it.
We've all seen multiple 50 point talents on this team over the years... Regin is as talented, smart and hard working as any of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
I watched Peter Regin play every single minute of his NHL career and outside of a handful of games near the end of the 09/10 season, I cannot for the life of me see what a small group of fans seem to be clinging to.

He's a very good skater, he works hard, is very smart and defensively conscious. Those qualities will serve him well as an NHL player. Every time I watch him, he has "great checking centre" eminating out of him. What is not apparent is why some people continue to label him as having some amazing offensive upside. He doesn't score enough (at any level) and he doesn't have the playmaking abilities that would make up for his lack of goal scoring prowress. People are projecting skills that simply aren't there. He's not very strong on the puck because of his size and he's weak in the faceoff dot (although that's always something you can get better at over time, see Spezza). You can call him a kid if you like but the fact is that he's not some rookie coming out of Junior hockey, he's now 25 and was drafted 7 years ago. It's time to put up or shut up.

Some fans like to make excuses for their favourite players not being able to break through at the NHL level. I tend to be a results guy. And if you're going to be a scorer at the NHL level, chances are that you have demonstrated the ability to tear up lower leagues or you are producing at a higher level in a checking capacity that warrents a promotion onto a scoring line. Regin has done neither of those things so outside of some fanciful notion that he will magically morph into an NHL scorer, the more logical thing to do is put him in the best position to succeed instead of trying to make him into something he's not. He would make an ideal 3rd line centre and the sooner the team slots him there and gives him that defined role so that he can really know his place on the team, the more likely he'll gain confidence and excel there. If he gets to the point where his play dictates a bigger role later on, then that will be great. Just let him earn it in a more organic way.
He's had a number of 5-10 game point scoring streaks in the NHL beyond last years postseason... almost all of his career points thus far have come in those streaks.

He put up great numbers in the SEL and AHL. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Lack of goalscoring prowess? He'll be the type of playmaker that coaches are begging to shoot more. He's got a very got shot and seems to have good awareness to get into the open. He's certainly no Espen Knutsen or Scott Gomez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Regin will be battling for a top 6 position just like every other player you're right, whoever does the best in camp will get the position I assume, Regin is on an even playing field with everyone else most likely.

To think that Regin will bounce back and earn himself a top 6 role on this team isn't that far fetched at all is the thing, look at our roster of forwards. Also, I mean you say you watched every game Regin has been in, so have I for the most part, and its just difference of opinion when looking at the player. We will see THIS season who will be right and who won't be it seems.
Foligno, Butler, Greening, Condra, Z.Smith, Wick, O'Brien, Shannon... Regin looks like a much better 2-way talent than anyone of them. I'm not sure that any of them can match his offensive talent, probably Butler... but he's also much smaller and a much worse defensive player.

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