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Benoit Pouliot: not tendered qualifying offer (June 27)

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Old
05-09-2011, 08:34 AM
  #76
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I don't know if the Habs are doing it on a regular basis but Pierre McGuire mentioned that some teams assign mentors to their young players. In the past John Ferguson took Pete Mahovlich under his wing and built up his confidence. I see Pouliot very much like a young Little M.

We see that management has done it with Subban by having Gill looking after him. I think Pouliot would benefit by having Darche work with him. Darche has all the qualities that Pouliot needs to work on. He has determination, focus & persistence. And it wouldn't hurt Pouliot's chances if he's regularly reminded to go to the dirty areas.

To answer the OP's question, I think it's too early to give up on him. At worst Big Ben is a servicable third liner but he does have the upside of a scoring 2nd line winger.

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05-09-2011, 08:38 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by AnAverageHF View Post
I'd say hang on to him for now, play him as a third line winger.

I don't think he's confident enough for top 6 duties yet.

Looking at the past season, it appears to me (I don't have the stats to back this up, maybe one of you more stat minded people can show if my reasoning is right or wrong) that Pouliot's best two spans of the season where back on the PHD line and then with Desharnais and Darche.

Common factor: Darche. Maybe its his work ethic, maybe they just get along, or maybe it's his presence in front of the net that assists Pouliot's signature shot from the top of the left face off circle reach the net.

He's an up and down player, when he's up he's great but when he's down, man is he down.
Read your post after I wrote mine. I totally agree with you.

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05-09-2011, 09:10 AM
  #78
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I have been a fan of Pouliot even when he was in junior. I really like the guy and think he has the talent to be a top 6 forward. I don't think he got much of a chance in the playoffs either. I would have had him in the line up instead of tommy pyatt. All that said, I can't see PG bringing him back. What if we tried him with Plekanec and Cammy.

Cammy-Pleks-Pouliot
Maxpac-Gomez-Gionta
Kostitsyn-Eller-Upshall(sign him pls)
Moen-Desharnais-White

This might work, but we might be better off just finding a top 6 forward in the free agency.
So the guy plays like crap the last 3 months and you reward him with a spot on the 1st line?

Priceless!

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05-09-2011, 09:14 AM
  #79
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he's young and he's got all the things you can't teach. where he is lacking is in the things you can teach
As far as I am concerned he lacks heart and desire to compete on a nightly basis which are things you either have or don't.

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05-09-2011, 09:28 AM
  #80
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Where did you read he was Gainey's no.1 target? Its far from being a fact as far as Im concerned.. Second, he never teared up the OHL.. Third, if he really worked on his legs strength during the past off season, it certainly didnt appear during the season.. Fourth, do you seriously think Martin will risk to lose games just in hope Benoit Pouliot become the player some of you think he can be? lol

He had plenty of chances to prove the coach he deserved more ice time on the top lines and never gave his coach a reason to do this..

As far as Im concerned, we have a very hyped kid who will never establish himself as a good NHLer..
First, it was all over the place at the draft. I'm not going to search for the links, I thought it was common knowledge. Second, I never said anywhere that he tore up the OHL. I did however put his numbers so people can assume what they want. Third, Pouliot himself said that he worked his legs to get more strength and better balance. You can search for the quotes if you want, it was during training camp. Again, I didn't say that it worked. Fourth, had you read the entire blog, you'd know that Pouliot had better numbers than both Gomez and Gionta when he was "punished" and placed on the bottom six forward lines, hardly losing games because of him. If you want to point fingers like that, look at the $7M man.

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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So the guy plays like crap the last 3 months and you reward him with a spot on the 1st line?

Priceless!
I truly would. After all, they did it for 5 years with AK and listening to some here, it has worked! Really, what do they have to lose? Games? See the comment above. I truly believe that if you want to give the guy a chance in your organization, there are no ifs and buts about it, you have to play him in a way where he'll regain his confidence, and that is in an offensive, top 6 role for a long time.

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05-09-2011, 09:57 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Thanks for adding on. It's mind boggling (well, not really seeing the way Martin is handling the youth) to see how short of a leash Pouliot has had. The same could have been said about Latendresse before him. Yet Kostitsyn has had 5 years of slack.
Because we fans, think we know it all. We only see what gose on the ice, put what they do off the ice (training, attitude, implication into teh team and system, etc.) also affects how the coach will utilize them.

For all we know, Pouliot may be a lazy ass off ice, which would not suprise me. At 24, you would expect a serious NHL player to have gain the weight he needs to put on to be more effective. Pouliot still has is 18 year old frame! How complicated is it to add 20 lbs 0ver 4 years when its your job!!!

The guy simply does not have the mental to be here, and I even doubt that he as it for a no pressure team like Columbus.

I was hoping for him until I saw the Nos Canadiens show on him. WOW, still wrap around momys skirt at 24, forget it, he is as soft as butter in the mental department.

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First, it was all over the place at the draft. I'm not going to search for the links, I thought it was common knowledge. Second, I never said anywhere that he tore up the OHL. I did however put his numbers so people can assume what they want. Third, Pouliot himself said that he worked his legs to get more strength and better balance. You can search for the quotes if you want, it was during training camp. Again, I didn't say that it worked. Fourth, had you read the entire blog, you'd know that Pouliot had better numbers than both Gomez and Gionta when he was "punished" and placed on the bottom six forward lines, hardly losing games because of him. If you want to point fingers like that, look at the $7M man.


I truly would. After all, they did it for 5 years with AK and listening to some here, it has worked! Really, what do they have to lose? Games? See the comment above. I truly believe that if you want to give the guy a chance in your organization, there are no ifs and buts about it, you have to play him in a way where he'll regain his confidence, and that is in an offensive, top 6 role for a long time.
The respect of the other players. I would be frustrated as hell to see that lazy ass got top line minutes. Don't compare to AK, diffrent team, players and coaches that here now. Also, anyone not seeing that Pouliot does not work hard at all??


Last edited by PyrettaBlaze: 05-11-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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Old
05-09-2011, 10:07 AM
  #82
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I think the Gauthier will bring him back, maybe a 1 year deal and take it from there unless there is a team out there willing to trade something decent for him then yes trade him

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05-09-2011, 10:25 AM
  #83
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I think the real problem here is that we don't roll with 3 offensive lines given the players we do have. We could definitely roll with a 3rd offensive line and even give them more ice time and with Pouliot playing an offensive role he would flourish. Even if it were just Eller/Desharnais, those guys are offensive minded players.

But no, instead it's always Pouliot-Halpern-Pyatt/Moen/etc type lines he's on, well what do people expect a pure offensive player to pull off on a line like that? He isn't a playmaker either, so it puts him in a difficult position in order to be able to produce he would need more ice time more PP time and better line mates. (Then for some strange reason and even stupider sounding, we have Eller-Kostitsyn on the 4th line half the time When they could be on a 3rd line with Pouliot at the bare minimum)

Put Kovalchuk on a line with Halpern and Pyatt, I don't doubt he has the worst season of his career.

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05-09-2011, 02:08 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
The respect of the other players. I would be frustrated as hell to see that lazy ass got top line minutes. Don't compare to AK, diffrent team, players and coaches that here now. Also, anyone not seeing that Pouliot does not work hard at all??
I thought this thread was about Pouliot and not Gomez.

That was the problem for the Habs this year. Gomez did nothing offensively, made lots of mistakes and got the minutes. Every time Pouliot made a mistake he was benched.

Think maybe that the Habs suffered from a "respect" problem this year?

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05-09-2011, 02:49 PM
  #85
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Because we fans, think we know it all. We only see what gose on the ice, put what they do off the ice (training, attitude, implication into teh team and system, etc.) also affects how the coach will utilize them.

For all we know, Pouliot may be a lazy ass off ice, which would not suprise me. At 24, you would expect a serious NHL player to have gain the weight he needs to put on to be more effective. Pouliot still has is 18 year old frame! How complicated is it to add 20 lbs 0ver 4 years when its your job!!!

The guy simply does not have the mental to be here, and I even doubt that he as it for a no pressure team like Columbus.

I was hoping for him until I saw the Nos Canadiens show on him. WOW, still wrap around momys skirt at 24, forget it, he is as soft as butter in the mental department.
Buddy his father died when he was a kid. I would be in same position as him with his mother if had happened to me. Don't be so harsh about that.

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05-09-2011, 03:16 PM
  #86
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Pouliot has the right skill set to be a star player in this league, maybe not a super star but a star and can score 30 goals with a good play making centre, however, he has serious off ice issues and problems (that I know for a fact).

In my opinion, he will never live up to expectations and the 4th overall status, he should be packaged with a draft pick or prospect to get a better asset in Montreal, maybe a defenseman or possibly a really good young centre (a la Eller and Leblanc).
How do you know this for a fact? You're a friend of his? If so that's cool, but aside from that it's hear say if you aren't. It's a pretty awesome job of psycho analyzing a guy you don't even know if the case is that you have no connection with him, I must say

Just because people on HF say it's in his head doesn't make it fact. In fact I'd be more inclined to lean towards Martin being at fault here, and I'm more lenient with Martin than most here. He should have been given a number of chances to play with Gomer and Gio and never was. We had injuries and they'd give him like 1 shift on the line before dumping him on a 3rd or 4th line, both that are a mix of offensive and 4th liner type players rather than making a 3rd scoring line and a better 4th line.

Remember guys like Moen/Darche were not only on his line when he was on the 3rd line, but they were actually given roles on the top two lines ahead of Benny. If we want Benoit to succeed imo the first way to do it is giving him a chance on a scoring line. Doesn't have to be 2nd line but come on, the 3rd line we had enough makeup to make good. Center? Not a problem, Eller/DD are both good and developing nicely. Winger? Darche is one of those guys who isn't good enough for top 6 but could easily be a 3rd line scoring winger.

We could have easily assembled 3 scoring lines all year but no, instead we made 2 ****** 4th lines, not even good 4th lines imo because they were kind of just mix and matched. I don't get what would be so bad about trying a 3rd scoring line, especially when we have the players to make a great 4th checking and good 3rd scoring line, but don't have even somewhat the make up to do 2x checking lines, which is basically what we did all year, put Benny on a checking line.

Of course he isn't going to succeed down there. I'm amazed so many people put the full blame on Benny. Sure he had a terrible season, sure after a while he looked like he stopped caring, can anyone forget the first half of the season when he was one of the best point getter's versus time on ice in the NHL and he still couldn't force Jacques hand to give him a shot or assemble a line he could actually develop on?

I'm not saying Pouliot doesn't need to work hard this summer, or that he wasn't very frustrating to watch this season especially in the second half, but as a JM supporter in most cases, this is just one of the things he's done I can't for the life of me understand.

We could've had 3 scoring lines but he'd rather player Moen on the top lines etc.

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05-09-2011, 03:17 PM
  #87
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as others do, I look at the AK and Pouliot as similar cases. Both have the size MTL needs, play more and more physical (again, something MTL needs) and also have a ton of potential.

I was a die hard AK hoper... hoping he would happen as a top flight first liner. He just never put it together like a top winger should, but he morphed into a useful 3rd line/2nd line winger. Oh well, not everyone can play on the top line.

As for Pouliot, well, he has skills but no hockey sense. When he should be anticipating that the puck goes left, he turns right. Simple as that. As much skill as you can have, you need to be in the right spot.

Someone here said he always tries to do everything too fast, not slowing down the play.... that has some merot too it. Again, that refers to Hockey IQ... knowing what to do, and when to do it.

He is fine in a third line role.

If another grinder starts to develop a bit of a scoring touch, such as White, then it is "move over benny, your spot has been filled." Until then, keep him there at a cheap price.

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05-09-2011, 03:38 PM
  #88
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So the guy plays like crap the last 3 months and you reward him with a spot on the 1st line?

Priceless!
Well first of all it will be a brand new season. So every from this past year is done. Second how can you expect him to get his confidence back and start putting up points if hes on the 4th line where he wont get the time to do anything. Hes not playing with players that will set him up and create chances and hes not playing in the type of role he should be playing. The guy can put the puck in the net so give him a chance to play with people that will help him do it.

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05-09-2011, 04:29 PM
  #89
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Well first of all it will be a brand new season. So every from this past year is done. Second how can you expect him to get his confidence back and start putting up points if hes on the 4th line where he wont get the time to do anything. Hes not playing with players that will set him up and create chances and hes not playing in the type of role he should be playing. The guy can put the puck in the net so give him a chance to play with people that will help him do it.
Exactly. I really don't get what part of that is so hard to understand. Put guy with offensive skill but no checking line talent on a checking line.... watch his career spiral down the toilet.

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05-09-2011, 04:34 PM
  #90
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Remember, folks: in the modern NHL, coaches play power-on-power. The top six are not "scoring lines" they are "outscoring lines". Playing on them is a responsibility, not an opportunity.

If Pouliot is struggling, putting him on the second line isn't helping him, it's throwing him to the wolves. If you want to give him plum offensive icetime, the place to do that is the power play (that's what was done with Desharnais actually).

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05-09-2011, 04:36 PM
  #91
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Because we fans, think we know it all. We only see what gose on the ice, put what they do off the ice (training, attitude, implication into teh team and system, etc.) also affects how the coach will utilize them.

For all we know, Pouliot may be a lazy ass off ice, which would not suprise me. At 24, you would expect a serious NHL player to have gain the weight he needs to put on to be more effective. Pouliot still has is 18 year old frame! How complicated is it to add 20 lbs 0ver 4 years when its your job!!!

The guy simply does not have the mental to be here, and I even doubt that he as it for a no pressure team like Columbus.

I was hoping for him until I saw the Nos Canadiens show on him. WOW, still wrap around momys skirt at 24, forget it, he is as soft as butter in the mental department.
Yeah, totally agree with you! What is up with this guy? Losing his father when he was a kid so he wants to stay close with the family he still has? Such a wuss!

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05-09-2011, 07:18 PM
  #92
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I saw a lot of "fight" in Pouliot's game this year, enough to believe that he's worth hanging on to at least for this season.

If he manages to click with his linemates early in the year, or find his way into JM's good books, I could easily see him have a breakout year and scoring in the 20+ goal range.

with Pleks-Gomez-Eller/DD as our top 9 centres, he should have an opportunity to at least get a shot with a centre that could complement his play, and if manages to take this season's disapointment and frustrations and channel them into a hard summer of committed work, there's no reason he can't be an effective player for us.

all the pieces are there in his game, a bit more balance and a bit more confidence and he'll be fine.

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05-09-2011, 08:18 PM
  #93
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Buddy his father died when he was a kid. I would be in same position as him with his mother if had happened to me. Don't be so harsh about that.
I understand what your saying, but I lost my mom at a similar age, and it does not change the fact that at one point you have to grow up and be a man.

He can be close to his family, which I am, but there's a difference between that and still being very dependent of your mom.

I'm not saying it to be harsh, I'm saying for is benefit, because that is what he needs to do. I speak as someone who's been there. The truth is not always pretty.

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05-09-2011, 08:29 PM
  #94
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The respect of the other players. I would be frustrated as hell to see that lazy ass got top line minutes. Don't compare to AK, diffrent team, players and coaches that here now. Also, anyone not seeing that Pouliot does not work hard at all??
Are you trying to make it sound like AK is/was a hard worker here? I personally saw some fight in Pouliot, more so than in a few veterans who got the pass from the coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I think the real problem here is that we don't roll with 3 offensive lines given the players we do have. We could definitely roll with a 3rd offensive line and even give them more ice time and with Pouliot playing an offensive role he would flourish. Even if it were just Eller/Desharnais, those guys are offensive minded players.

But no, instead it's always Pouliot-Halpern-Pyatt/Moen/etc type lines he's on, well what do people expect a pure offensive player to pull off on a line like that? He isn't a playmaker either, so it puts him in a difficult position in order to be able to produce he would need more ice time more PP time and better line mates. (Then for some strange reason and even stupider sounding, we have Eller-Kostitsyn on the 4th line half the time When they could be on a 3rd line with Pouliot at the bare minimum)

Put Kovalchuk on a line with Halpern and Pyatt, I don't doubt he has the worst season of his career.
You're bringing up a pretty good point here, which goes back to coaching... but how dare us question Martin!?!

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05-09-2011, 08:37 PM
  #95
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I like him.
We would have won in Game 7 versus Boston if Martin had inserted him into the lineup. His fresh legs would have helped a ton.

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05-09-2011, 11:50 PM
  #96
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Actually, I think his best chance to succeed is with Martin. Martin has coached him before and I believe they are close off the ice. I would say that was one of the reasons they made the trade for him, because Martin knew exactly what they were getting
When ?

Pouliot makes one little mistake he's benched. He could have scored 50 goals in the past 2 games. He'll get benched. Martin seems to instill little confidence in younger players and seems to not really care how veterans play.

It's kind of hard to be as good as people want you to be with little to no pp time, stuck with players who have little to no offensive flare and playing 7 minutes a game.

I'm sick of Martin already. He didn't take us to the Eastern Conference Finals. Halak did. When Halak faltered, we lost. Martin's coaching tactics did us jack and all it did was help the other team build momentum and continue to push. Playing the game on your heels is not the best strategy.

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05-09-2011, 11:57 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
When ?

Pouliot makes one little mistake he's benched. He could have scored 50 goals in the past 2 games. He'll get benched. Martin seems to instill little confidence in younger players and seems to not really care how veterans play.

It's kind of hard to be as good as people want you to be with little to no pp time, stuck with players who have little to no offensive flare and playing 7 minutes a game.

I'm sick of Martin already. He didn't take us to the Eastern Conference Finals. Halak did. When Halak faltered, we lost. Martin's coaching tactics did us jack and all it did was help the other team build momentum and continue to push. Playing the game on your heels is not the best strategy.
Amen.

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05-09-2011, 11:59 PM
  #98
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I'm sick of Martin already. He didn't take us to the Eastern Conference Finals. Halak did. When Halak faltered, we lost. Martin's coaching tactics did us jack and all it did was help the other team build momentum and continue to push. Playing the game on your heels is not the best strategy.
I agree with this, but in fairness to Martin what choice did he really have? In the four series he's coached we've been severely outmatched on paper in each of them and managed to come away with two wins. I'm in no way satisfied with that (especially choking against Boston), but no coach could have gotten more out of this roster.

If he still tries to play a boring, passive style with more firepower at his disposal then he should be replaced, but until that time I think he's doing a pretty decent job at maximizing performance.

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05-10-2011, 12:05 AM
  #99
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I still think that Pouliot has it in him, that he needs to get his confidence back. I'm seriously questioning his ability to regain that confidence under Jacques Martin. Seems like a vet has this luxury (losing and regaining his confidence) under Martin as they're going right back in.

I really didn't think that the charging penalty against Pouliot, which saw him sitting on the bench for the rest of that game and in the stands for the rest of the series, wasn't that bad. I much prefer an aggressive penalty like charging, especially in the playoffs, than a lazy penalty like hooking or too many men on the ice as we've seen way too often.

I'd put Pouliot on the top 6 for a long time, telling him to hit, use his body to get to the net. I'd give him as much opportunity as AK has gotten over the last 5 years or so. If/when he makes a mistake, I'd talk to him (or get the assistant to do that) and send him right back out. That's how you build confidence, understanding that young players will make mistakes.

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05-10-2011, 12:15 AM
  #100
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Pouliot, as of today, is a flop. He was chosen 4th overall and hasn't shown much sign of being able to live up to that draft pick. Now, maybe your understanding of a flop will defer.
he may never be an elite star, or 50 goal scorer but if he can score ~ 20 per season, than I wouldn't say he's a flop either... Just because one doesn't meet high expectations doesn't make him a flop.

Now, if he's playing in Switzerland in a year or two, than ya, I guess I would call him a flop.

i really don't think about him in terms of a 4th pick, and I've never been a Lats' fan so I don't demand more from Pouliot to justify the trade.

We should all pretend that he was drafted 200th overall

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