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13-13-4 in our last 30 games. Mediocrity?

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Old
02-24-2012, 01:51 AM
  #1
s3x
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13-13-4 in our last 30 games. Mediocrity?

What concerns me more is the trend that seems to have continued from last year of a strong start followed my a below average second half. Does this come down to player performance, coaching, or a combination of the two?

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02-24-2012, 01:56 AM
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young team last year, younger team this year. it happens.

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02-24-2012, 06:39 AM
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young team last year, younger team this year. it happens.
Agreed. Every player is different but rookies generally aren't used to an 82 game haul

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02-24-2012, 07:16 AM
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It's painful bc on most night I think they can beat anyone but that's just not the case

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02-24-2012, 07:39 AM
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Just for the sake of discussion, here are how the rest of the Eastern Conference has fared during the same time period

NYR 18 6 4
BOS 16 11 1
WPG 16 13 3
NJD 18 7 3
PIT 17 10 1
OTT 17 8 4
FLA 10 11 6
TOR 13 13 4
WAS 13 13 4
TBL 14 11 4
BUF 10 15 4
NYI 16 13 2
CAR 13 8 7
MTL 11 15 3

It would be hard to argue that we've been playing well on a consistent basis lately, but at the same time I don't think it's so alarming that we need to do any panic moves to save the season, or change the culture or anything like that. We've been hit pretty hard with injuries since december as well. Hopefully JvR, Jagr and the rest of them returns to form now, the offense clicks, Kubina and Grossman finds chemistry with Carle and Meszaros (or whoever they'll end up playing with the most), and Bryzgalov can build from his performance against the Oilers. Then we'll make the numbers look better again, for sure...

Edit: I hate the point system the NHL is using... three teams out of fifteen with a losing record...


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02-24-2012, 08:54 AM
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The first thing to consider is that the Flyers were out-performing expectations, especially offensively, for much of the first-half of the year. Now that they're coming back down to where they should be, people are mistaking it for the wheels coming off.

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02-24-2012, 11:26 AM
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Dunno, last years collapse was more lazy disinterest. This year guys are trying, battling and we are in every game.

And offensively we are right where I though we would be. Simmonds got an increased role and is good in this system, voracek scored 50 pts before. I thought giroux would step it up on offense and he has.

We are built to score...and when we don't or when we are lazy in our forcheck we don't do other elements well enough to "survive"

Defensively as a team, we are an inconsistent train wreck.


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02-24-2012, 11:29 AM
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Last year's "collapse" was the previous year's Finals run catching up to them. Another thing people didn't want to admit happened.

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02-24-2012, 11:39 AM
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Last year's "collapse" was the previous year's Finals run catching up to them. Another thing people didn't want to admit happened.
It was also injuries piling up. Pronger being hurt, then as now, mattered. Mike Richards playing with a *ed wrist all season long... mattered. So on, and so forth. However, it was more than just the SCF run. It was also an Olympic year they were coming out of, meaning a lot of our key parts had played a metric ton of hockey the year before.

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02-24-2012, 11:44 AM
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Dunno, last years collapse was more lazy disinterest. This year guys are trying, battling and we are in every game.

And offensively we are right where I though we would be. Simmonds got an increased role and is good in this system, voracek scored 50 pts before. I thought giroux would step it up on offense and he has.

We are built to score...and when we don't or when we are lazy in our forcheck we don't do other elements well enough to "survive"

Defensively as a team, we are an inconsistent train wreck.
Calling BS on that. We're scoring at a higher clip than any team did all of last season right now. We have multiple guys having career years offensively (Giroux, Hartnell, Talbot, Simmonds, etc. and that is without getting into great rookie seasons getting turned in by a guy like Read). This team wasn't going to be terrible offensively, but this good... no one was predicting that. Of course, the other prediction that has come true is the bigger issue. Namely, this team is pretty terrible defensively at forward, and beyond Timonen (sans Pronger) it isn't exactly a murders row on D -- despite the claims of many pundits and fans alike.

All of that compounded by the fact that Bryz has turned in a turd sandwich of a season.

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02-24-2012, 11:46 AM
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The lack of Prongerness was beginning to catch up. I'm interested to see how they do over the next ten games now that Grossman and Kubina are settling in.

Goalies still worry the hell out of me though.

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02-24-2012, 12:00 PM
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My head understands that this team shouldn't be competing at this level, given the massive personnel changes and youth movement. However, I would be much more at ease about their current situation if the more veteran players (Carle, Coburn, Briere) weren't leading the downward charge. We've talked Bryzgalov to death, and of course not having Pronger on the blue line is a catastrophic blow to the line-up. I'm fearful of the most recent subpar games by Timonen, and whether this is an injury, fatigue over being the top Dman for practically the entire season, or his age catching up to him.

There remain far too many idiotic mistakes happening in the Flyers' own zone, and I don't see a lot of accountability from the players or being imposed by Laviolette. Last night was a fine example of the only two goals of the game being directly caused by lazy zone clearing. The PK is absolutely horrid, as the opposing PPers pass and shoot at will.

If nothing else, this season should be a stepping stone for the immense talent level on this team rookie and veteran to ingrain their team system, learn from their mistakes, and go into next season with serious playoff aspirations.

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02-24-2012, 12:04 PM
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Calling BS on that.
to clarify my thought/point, I didn't think we would be having any trouble on offense...I exepected this out of giroux. Hartnell's a little ahead of his normal production, but he's put up 30 before.

Jvr and briere are down, others have picked it up. We got rid of 2 players who played in a majority of our offensive situations. Our replacements have filled in for this role.

I think richy and carter are "b" class players...good, not great. They were not that special and easily replaced. If giroux goes...we have nobody to replace that skill level, he's special.

Our style of hockey generates a lot of chances, and we have alot of skill on this team. Our skill level is much deeper than last year, 1-12

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02-24-2012, 12:06 PM
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The lack of Prongerness was beginning to catch up.
This. They're missing their best defender, obviously, they're going to be pushing **** uphill with that kind of gap in the line up. That said, this team still has the raw talent to win it all. However, they just can't seem to maintain consistently high enough levels of performance to be where they should be.

Honestly, I'd place it on the veterans in this team. None of them perform at as a high a level as they should and thereby set a strong example for the kids to follow. Get our veterans (particularly Briere) to fire on a regular basis and watch the young guys pick it up.

Is that on Lavy or the players themselves? I'm not sure, but without the veterans assuming leadership roles (let's face it, none of these guys have the leadership qualities of Pronger), the kids will flounder along with our flaky vets.

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02-24-2012, 12:56 PM
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Last year's "collapse" was the previous year's Finals run catching up to them. Another thing people didn't want to admit happened.
yea it was pretty clear after the Bruins wipe that the team was kind of releived to be done..

they looked exhausted/bruised/beaten..

this year there is NO excuse..but i just dont see how we can get/go into the PO's with a team that cant put even 2 back to back solid efforts in.. the POs are a 7 game series not a 14 game series for christs sake..

gunna hate to see the season end abruptly, but its firmly what i beleive will happen. and im gunan bet its against the NYR.

UGH !!!

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02-24-2012, 01:17 PM
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They need to battle tougher at times. The effort in the 2nd period last night sucked. We need those points way more than Edmonton.

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02-24-2012, 01:24 PM
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I'd rather be mediocre now than in the playoffs. The team just acquired two new d-men and will gel. Not too worried at the moment.

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02-24-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
yea it was pretty clear after the Bruins wipe that the team was kind of releived to be done..

they looked exhausted/bruised/beaten..

this year there is NO excuse..but i just dont see how we can get/go into the PO's with a team that cant put even 2 back to back solid efforts in.. the POs are a 7 game series not a 14 game series for christs sake..

gunna hate to see the season end abruptly, but its firmly what i beleive will happen. and im gunan bet its against the NYR.

UGH !!!
Yes, there is an excuse. Quite a few players are hitting walls because they're not used to the grind of the NHL, while other veterans haven't done their share to dig out of the hole.

Couturier clearly hit a rookie wall, and needed the night off last night.

Jagr spent 3 years in Russia, where the seasons are shorter, and start earlier. He's slowing down. He's also old, as hard as he works, isn't reliable to be 100% for 82 games.

Remember when Matt Read was on the fast track to a 30-30 season? 1 goal in 14 games. And some people here knew Matt Read would drop off pretty hard around the All-Star break. He did.

Brayden Schenn has fallen off a bit after looking great between the Winter Classic and the Detroit game, but he was plagued by injures enough this season. He came on once Couturier and Read started to tail off.

Now there are rumors of bringing in another forward. Read and Couturier are a forward pair on the PK, and is one reason why it's dropped off so hard, which is why I bellyached all year long about having a shutdown ace for a third line center.


Some people drank too much of Big Ed's kool-aid to allow these realities to set in.

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02-24-2012, 01:29 PM
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inconsistent goaltending has been a problem too...but what is troublesome is the defense has looked really bad past few weeks including Kimmo. Mez, carle, coburn, new guys, very very inconsistent

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02-24-2012, 01:43 PM
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Yes, there is an excuse. Quite a few players are hitting walls because they're not used to the grind of the NHL, while other veterans haven't done their share to dig out of the hole.

Couturier clearly hit a rookie wall, and needed the night off last night.

Jagr spent 3 years in Russia, where the seasons are shorter, and start earlier. He's slowing down. He's also old, as hard as he works, isn't reliable to be 100% for 82 games.

Remember when Matt Read was on the fast track to a 30-30 season? 1 goal in 14 games. And some people here knew Matt Read would drop off pretty hard around the All-Star break. He did.

Brayden Schenn has fallen off a bit after looking great between the Winter Classic and the Detroit game, but he was plagued by injures enough this season. He came on once Couturier and Read started to tail off.

Now there are rumors of bringing in another forward. Read and Couturier are a forward pair on the PK, and is one reason why it's dropped off so hard, which is why I bellyached all year long about having a shutdown ace for a third line center.


Some people drank too much of Big Ed's kool-aid to allow these realities to set in.

Idk about Read "hitting the wall" He had a 4 point game in a 7-2 win when ottawa was completely awful. And he had a stretch of 6 goals which started him out very hot and on a ridiculous goal pace. But every month he has scored 7-9 points including jan which he has his most points in a month. then they put him on the a line with Jagr and Briere which has looked completely awful. So hard to say its his fault or hitting the wall.

I think schenn has looked pretty good too. Jagr has 0 chemistry with briere and has been hurt a lot this season with minor injuries so idk about him hitting the wall. Couturier you have a case for. I haven't noticed him at all recently and his play on the pk hasn't been that great.

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02-24-2012, 01:58 PM
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Brayden Schenn has fallen off a bit after looking great between the Winter Classic and the Detroit game, but he was plagued by injures enough this season. He came on once Couturier and Read started to tail off.
How has Schenn looked defensively? I didn't see any of the past games, but saw that terrible defensive play on the highlights yesterday, where there was a 2-on-2 and instead of switching coverage to a different player when they crossed over, he pursued the first one, who was already covered by our defenseman, and leaving the other Oiler completely alone. They didn't score off that chance, but that Oiler did get the puck and was in clear on Bryz.

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02-24-2012, 02:04 PM
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This is EXACTLY the same as last year. Fast out of the blocks and increasingly mediocre as the season draws on. They're just not well coached in the second half of the year, something is wrong.

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02-24-2012, 02:08 PM
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I blame Richards and Carter.

Richards for his poor leadership and Carter for never showing up when we need him.

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02-24-2012, 02:15 PM
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One thing's for sure, this team is going nowhere in the play-offs. If we win 2 games i'll be shocked. What a waste of time it was going after Kubina and Grossman, a band-aid over a knife wound.

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02-24-2012, 02:20 PM
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I personally am a little fed up with Laviolette's high tempo game plan and seemingly inability to make adjustments on the fly or as the season progresses. I wasn't happy about acquiring Groosman or Kubina as I don't think either will greatly increase our defensive ability, but whatever Ed wants, right? I was keen on selling d-men at the deadline to free up cap space for an offensive rebuild. But I guess that is still possible at a loss of picks provided we don't resign either of the late additions and let Carle walk.

EDIT: That was supposed to say defensive rebuild, not offensive (hence selling d-men at the deadline).


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