HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

State of Today's Game in Relation to our Team

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-10-2011, 07:27 PM
  #1
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
State of Today's Game in Relation to our Team

This is a long overdue post, just want to get some thoughts out...

Today's NHL does not reward Petr Nedved wrist-shots. For those clamoring for Simon Gagne in October, you're not paying attention. This is not a video game. Moreover, the days of trying to obtain the veteran who already had his career, is over. It reminds me of a quote from the movie, Major League - one of the Cleveland Indians coaches is talking to another about Roger Dorn coming to spring training. "Wish we had Dorn two years ago." ..."We did" ...."Oh, four years ago then" - Point is, just because a player scored 30 three years ago does not mean he can 'recapture' that production. Fact is, the shelf-life of these guys is a handful of productive years. Very few play well into their 30s. The motivation isn't there. The body breaks down. These guys have families. The hunger subsides; security sets in.

More than ever, today's league is a man's game. In constructing a player, you need individuals that thrive on puck-possession; tremendous strength, and willingness to fight for the inch. I do not care about 'combine speed' ; I value recovery speed, ability to change directions, hockey IQ...

These are not earth shattering concepts but I wanted to generate some discussion about this topic; and ensure that the majority understand what we're after here...

Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:31 PM
  #2
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,331
vCash: 500
Hockey IQ I think is something the Rangers dont value enough when drafting. I feel the physical tools are easier worked on and developed rather than learning the finer points of the game. It may take the players longer to develop, but in the end, it is well worth it.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:35 PM
  #3
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Hockey IQ I think is something the Rangers dont value enough when drafting. I feel the physical tools are easier worked on and developed rather than learning the finer points of the game. It may take the players longer to develop, but in the end, it is well worth it.
isnt this Lindberg kid supposed to have good hockey sense more than Werek who has physical tools

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:38 PM
  #4
E Nixson
Powered by Intel
 
E Nixson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
isnt this Lindberg kid supposed to have good hockey sense more than Werek who has physical tools
In theory...

E Nixson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:39 PM
  #5
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
isnt this Lindberg kid supposed to have good hockey sense more than Werek who has physical tools
Ehh, I would say they have differing hockey sense. Werek is the bigger player though. I feel like Lindberg has the higher ceiling though because he has much more growing physically available to him.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:45 PM
  #6
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,428
vCash: 500
Its tough to quantify what works in "today's game" (i.e. post-lockout).

But I think if you could point to one constant thing for all contending teams, its young high-end talent, especially at forward.

You know, the thing the Rangers are lacking most.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:58 PM
  #7
Sunshine
Registered User
 
Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
I did not create this thread to have a Werek v. Lindberg debate

Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 09:35 PM
  #8
KingWantsCup
United we stand
 
KingWantsCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,591
vCash: 50
I still recommend Gagne under the condition that we sign Richards because he'd be cheap and Richards would surely inflate his stats. He'd possibly even sign a one year deal.

KingWantsCup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 10:58 PM
  #9
satrabyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,863
vCash: 500
I agree puck control, protecting the puck, making a play with hockey IQ has seemed to be lost in the last few years on this team. We had it a few years ago with Jagr but since than its been lost. If u watch team like Det, Van, Boston ect this is there bread and butter. If the Rangers think they can just throw it to the net instead if trying to hold the puck and make a play, they will never be successfull.

Now do we have the personal for this, prob not. It be nice of the young guns coming in play this style but only time will tell. For exp a guy like Richards from what ive seen does not seem to be one to be in the corners, battling and protecting the puck but i may be wrong.

satrabyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 11:25 PM
  #10
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Hockey IQ, hockey sense, etc...whatever you want to call it, it's the most important quality a player can have. Everything starts there. It's all about learning. How much and how long?

Of course, physical attributes matter, but the best all-around players, in almost every case, are also the smartest ones.

Niklas Lidstrom and Pavel Datsyuk. Best all-around players at their position. Smartest players at their position. Crosby has incredible physical gifts, but he's also pretty smart. Not on the elite level, but probably just below it. Top 10 among forwards.

And as for talent and skills, other than Theo Fleury, Jagr and the short period of Bure, the Rangers have lacked that superstar kind of talent since Gretzky, and he was at the tail end of his magnificent career. Messier, Leetch. That's just about it. Kovalev had it in him, but not when he was a Ranger.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:26 AM
  #11
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,614
vCash: 500
I think what stands out for the teams that have survived in the playoffs so far--1. Talent 2. an ability to rely on your entire lineup to grind games out.

The Rangers are short on both these things. We still have guys who need to be carried. Losing Callahan for the playoffs was major for us--not necessarily saying we would have beaten the Capitalsl but some of those close games might have gone our way. It would have corrected some of the inbalance.

But injuries happen. More or less the point for me is--great to go out and get a guy like Richards to up your talent--but also keep in mind that a good third line like what Boyle-Prust-Fedotenko gave us is also important.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 07:05 AM
  #12
alkurtz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 873
vCash: 500
Though what you said of vets is often true; there are exceptions.

I have tremendous respect for veteran players who still maintain their youthful enthusiasm for the game. Guys who started out with high hockey IQs, accumulate experience, work hard, are consummate professionals, always give their all, and can be counted on to use all of that knowledge, experience, and skill nightly.

Think Steve Larmer...who Mess called the smartest hockey player he ever played with.

Think Marty Straka. For older fans, think Anders Hedberg.

To some extent, Vinny Prospal is that way.

Their bodies perhaps cannot do what they once did, but their smarts, experience, and hard work serves as somewhat of a counterbalance. Guys who know that their days are numbered but choose to relish every last moment and season by giving their all.

Every team needs one or two of those; if for nothing else, to set an example for younger players of how they should carry themselves as pros.

When signing older players (post 30), these intangibles should be taken into account.

I love Richards as a player, but I just don't know enough of him as a person to project him four or five years down the road to a time when his legs and skills are diminishing. Will he be that ultra-smart, total professional, who still works hard, uses his experience and sets that example? We've seen plenty of older guys who signed who, to some extent just mailed it in. Character is of the essence when signing older players.

Yes the game has changed; it is more of a younger players game now. The skill level is incredible (and I've been a fan for 50 years: todays teams would wipe the floor with the great teams of the 50s and 60s). But you still need those passionate vets to set the tone (unfortunately Drury's skills have eroded to the point where he no longer can perform on the ice....the vets I'm talking about can still, for the most part hold their own).

Perhaps there aren't to many of the kind of players I'm talking about around. But they are out there and should be valued and sought after.

alkurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 09:34 AM
  #13
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,123
vCash: 566
Younger, faster, scorers more points in fewer games and he's up and coming not old and breaking down. TOMAS FLEISCHMANN!!! I'll keep saying it.

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

They'll cost the same.

vipernsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 09:53 AM
  #14
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Younger, faster, scorers more points in fewer games and he's up and coming not old and breaking down. TOMAS FLEISCHMANN!!! I'll keep saying it.

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

They'll cost the same.
And Ill say it again, multiple years and an overpayment to second rate players is THE LAST thing this team should be doing.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 12:13 PM
  #15
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

Tomas Fleischmann

They'll cost the same.
Sather's done with Czechs. We want US and Sweden only. Canada is limited to AB. Goodbye Werek from Toronto. Richrds is not even from Calgary, i.e. question mark AKA "we will not overpay". Rozy is gone. Wolski, Euro raised in Toronto, will be kept, but not for long. Prospal will be let go. AA will be dealt, so will be Horak. DET will get Fleischman. Rangers will get Dustin Penner in the trade that will send Wolski, Horak and throw in to LA.


Last edited by 94now: 05-11-2011 at 12:27 PM.
94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 01:18 PM
  #16
007
Olympic nut
 
007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mannahatta
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 3,471
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to 007 Send a message via MSN to 007
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Sather's done with Czechs. We want US and Sweden only. Canada is limited to AB. Goodbye Werek from Toronto. Richrds is not even from Calgary, i.e. question mark AKA "we will not overpay". Rozy is gone. Wolski, Euro raised in Toronto, will be kept, but not for long. Prospal will be let go. AA will be dealt, so will be Horak. DET will get Fleischman. Rangers will get Dustin Penner in the trade that will send Wolski, Horak and throw in to LA.
We need some Finns on the team!

007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 01:25 PM
  #17
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
We need some Finns on the team!
Finns become Swedes when fully developped. That's an old rude Nordic joke.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:54 PM
  #18
Mr Atoz
I hid the Atavachron
 
Mr Atoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
Point is, just because a player scored 30 three years ago does not mean he can 'recapture' that production. Fact is, the shelf-life of these guys is a handful of productive years. Very few play well into their 30s. The motivation isn't there. The body breaks down. These guys have families. The hunger subsides; security sets in.
That may very well be true. We all know that no team - maybe no league - has rewarded players more for what they've done in the past than the Rangers. But who has a better chance of score 40 goals in the NHL? Someone who did it 2 years ago or someone who's in college or juniors and hasn't scored 40 goals there? Is there a 40 goal scorer there? Sure there is. But there's also 10,000 busts. Have a crystal ball? Don't waste it on hockey.

Mr Atoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.