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Should the Sharks scratch Marleau?? seriously.

View Poll Results: Should Marleau be scratched for game 7? seriously
No 89 63.12%
Yes 38 26.95%
Not sure 14 9.93%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-11-2011, 12:56 AM
  #26
Le Rosbeef
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Stupid poll.

He can't be scratched by virtue of his contract and the POTENTIAL he has to score. The only way he should sit is if he's too seriously injured to perform at an adequate level.

I know we're all frustrated but as much as we'd love to take some action, we all know we can't and we won't...

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05-11-2011, 01:04 AM
  #27
Berto2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Rosbeef View Post
Stupid poll.

He can't be scratched by virtue of his contract and the POTENTIAL he has to score. The only way he should sit is if he's too seriously injured to perform at an adequate level.
His contract says nothing about his ability to be scratched. Its only that he can't be traded/moved. Any player can be sat at anytime if the coach wants.

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Old
05-11-2011, 01:08 AM
  #28
WTFetus
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Originally Posted by Berto2k View Post
His contract says nothing about his ability to be scratched. Its only that he can't be traded/moved. Any player can be sat at anytime if the coach wants.
Virtue of his contract meaning he is one of those 6+ million salary players. You don't scratch those players, especially in the playoffs, simply because no matter how pathetic they've been, there is still a slim chance that he might score.
People who are saying Mashinter or Desjardins would be just as useful as Marleau are losing it.

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05-11-2011, 01:13 AM
  #29
Led Zappa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Virtue of his contract meaning he is one of those 6+ million salary players. You don't scratch those players, especially in the playoffs, simply because no matter how pathetic they've been, there is still a slim chance that he might score.
People who are saying Mashinter or Desjardins would be just as useful as Marleau are losing it.
If only a player like Ferriero could score in the PO's

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05-11-2011, 01:26 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I'm confused
Whoops, I meant to elaborate on what you said but then forgot. Something about how many Marleau fans and their stats.

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Old
05-11-2011, 01:32 AM
  #31
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If Clowe is ready to go scratch Marleau. He needs a fire lighted under his ass. All the Marleau homers will say that he's too talented, too skilled, you need your best forward for Game 7 blah blah blah blah blah.

No. That obviously has been a complete failure the past 3 games. He is getting beaten like a drum. The Sharks need someone who will play like every shift is his last, not a gutless worm who quits when the chips are down, not someone who floats around, loses 50-50 battles, and falls flat on his face.

Maybe Brandon Mashinter should be given a shot. Even if he gave the Sharks 10 minutes of quality, gritty, desperate hockey, that would be far more helpful than Marleau out there sucking.

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Old
05-11-2011, 02:03 AM
  #32
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Old
05-11-2011, 02:16 AM
  #33
RainbowDash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Virtue of his contract meaning he is one of those 6+ million salary players. You don't scratch those players, especially in the playoffs, simply because no matter how pathetic they've been, there is still a slim chance that he might score.
People who are saying Mashinter or Desjardins would be just as useful as Marleau are losing it.
Well, to be quite frank. Sean Avery was a scratch for the NYR for some time. For the reasons many have already stated.

I don't think he will be sat down and shouldn't really. However, if we were still in regular season, and Patty has been playing the way he has been now for 30+ games, I would bench him. Needs to get his head out of gutter.

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Old
05-11-2011, 03:18 AM
  #34
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Sigh. I probably would have voted yes had it been for game 5 or 6, but I'm not ready to experiment with a rookie in game 7. Maybe if Clowe is back, but do we really think McGinn will be better logging Marleau's minutes? I guess I'm just not confident enough in the other options to think they should risk trying something worse. I would be ok reducing his ice time and/or yanking him off the PP...

Easy, if it makes you feel better, I think JT sucks too and am as sick of his passing to the Red Wings as I am Marleau gliding by them on defense. The whole team sucks

As for the NMCs, benching Marleau in game 7 of the playoffs might convince him to waive it

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Old
05-11-2011, 03:27 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
Well, to be quite frank. Sean Avery was a scratch for the NYR for some time. For the reasons many have already stated.

I don't think he will be sat down and shouldn't really. However, if we were still in regular season, and Patty has been playing the way he has been now for 30+ games, I would bench him. Needs to get his head out of gutter.
Citing Avery isn't really going to prove anything. Avery as at no tine in his career ever expectedto produce what's expected of marleau. Also Avery is not well thought of by his coach so on a good day he's lucky to get ice time.

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05-11-2011, 04:02 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
Sigh. I probably would have voted yes had it been for game 5 or 6, but I'm not ready to experiment with a rookie in game 7. Maybe if Clowe is back, but do we really think McGinn will be better logging Marleau's minutes? I guess I'm just not confident enough in the other options to think they should risk trying something worse. I would be ok reducing his ice time and/or yanking him off the PP...

Easy, if it makes you feel better, I think JT sucks too and am as sick of his passing to the Red Wings as I am Marleau gliding by them on defense. The whole team sucks

As for the NMCs, benching Marleau in game 7 of the playoffs might convince him to waive it
Of all of them, Marleau has the strongest non-hockey reason not to waive. Anyway, the matchup is clearly telling all of us that the free ride for the shortcomings of the team are over. If they do win, it will be on determination and that has to come from JT, Marleau, Boyle, et al. A little bit of smarts would help. It is a team game and Detroit plays team to a tee. Leave Marleau in and let Babcock shut him down, but then whoever gets the easy matchup better make Babcock pay.

Just a few things that are related. Babcock has TM beat on playing the lower lines. The pounding that the Sharks d are taking from those lower lines is showing up. Overplaying the top guys is not working out so well and he is underplaying Murray so Murray's lack of foot speed won't be exposed. Has TM figured out how to expose Ericsson more? Has TM figured that overplaying his top forwards might have worn them down relative to Detroit's top guys? Pavelski 24min, come on. You hold the top guys back to 19-20 min and you might see a little more quickness to pucks and speed up the ice. Niemi played well in game 6 but has had some noticeable exposures. Beyond that Detroit is cycling high in the offensive zone between the dots to a tee. How many times have we seen the 5th guy (dman) slide to the slot for an open slapper from within 40 feet. It isn't just a gaffe by one Shark, it is clearly the team that doesn't see the play forming. Why haven't the coaches clued them in? Or just clued them in on how to stop that high cycle? In a very un-Detroitlike way they are using the stretch and hitting it. It backs off the Sharks d and gives the Wings a free entry. The Sharks aren't getting completely beat, they drop a dman to cover but why the heck aren't they trapping that pass and turning it into a transition opportunity like Detroit is. If you asked me, some wind has gone out of the Sharks sails and some of it is a lack of planning. They are playing a smart team. I don't think any of the Sharks top guys hold a candle to the top guys of the Wings. The way to beat that is for the coaches to supply the brainpower. Do they have it or are they just going to rely on motivation and go with THE SAME PLAN?


Last edited by SJeasy: 05-11-2011 at 04:10 AM.
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05-11-2011, 04:16 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by yada View Post
Citing Avery isn't really going to prove anything. Avery as at no tine in his career ever expectedto produce what's expected of marleau. Also Avery is not well thought of by his coach so on a good day he's lucky to get ice time.
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

When you commit that much money to player, they better damn well be useful for what you pay them for.

Campbell got a huge contract, but you can be assured that he won't remain on the roster (via trade or healthy scratch) if he doesn't move the puck like an elite defenseman.

Scott Gomez has 3 more years on a brutal contract.

Chris Drury has another year left on another brutal contract.

Wade Redden basically got kicked off his team.

Patty's stock sinking down to Redden's garbage bond status is pretty unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past him sinking to a Gomez or Drury level of value.

If Patty continues to play like this into next season. His contract is basically going to be an anchor to the Sharks and only weigh them down.

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05-11-2011, 04:40 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Of all of them, Marleau has the strongest non-hockey reason not to waive. Anyway, the matchup is clearly telling all of us that the free ride for the shortcomings of the team are over. If they do win, it will be on determination and that has to come from JT, Marleau, Boyle, et al. A little bit of smarts would help. It is a team game and Detroit plays team to a tee. Leave Marleau in and let Babcock shut him down, but then whoever gets the easy matchup better make Babcock pay.

Just a few things that are related. Babcock has TM beat on playing the lower lines. The pounding that the Sharks d are taking from those lower lines is showing up. Overplaying the top guys is not working out so well and he is underplaying Murray so Murray's lack of foot speed won't be exposed. Has TM figured out how to expose Ericsson more? Has TM figured that overplaying his top forwards might have worn them down relative to Detroit's top guys? Pavelski 24min, come on. You hold the top guys back to 19-20 min and you might see a little more quickness to pucks and speed up the ice. Niemi played well in game 6 but has had some noticeable exposures. Beyond that Detroit is cycling high in the offensive zone between the dots to a tee. How many times have we seen the 5th guy (dman) slide to the slot for an open slapper from within 40 feet. It isn't just a gaffe by one Shark, it is clearly the team that doesn't see the play forming. Why haven't the coaches clued them in? Or just clued them in on how to stop that high cycle? In a very un-Detroitlike way they are using the stretch and hitting it. It backs off the Sharks d and gives the Wings a free entry. The Sharks aren't getting completely beat, they drop a dman to cover but why the heck aren't they trapping that pass and turning it into a transition opportunity like Detroit is. If you asked me, some wind has gone out of the Sharks sails and some of it is a lack of planning. They are playing a smart team. I don't think any of the Sharks top guys hold a candle to the top guys of the Wings. The way to beat that is for the coaches to supply the brainpower. Do they have it or are they just going to rely on motivation and go with THE SAME PLAN?
I like your vision, but let me point out to you that Detroit isn't good enough to execute what you're saying they're doing. The Sharks were vastly mentally unprepared to play game 6. They could have stood a better chance if they would have switched over to play like they did in game 5 when they got the lead.

The Sharks outlet pass just flat out sucks. It has sucked since the 3rd period of game 4. They are unwilling to use a man in the slot to receive a simple outlet pass and instead insist on throwing it up the boards for an outlet and hand it off to whoever drives by or reversing it to no man's land. It is being easily exposed by the super early pinching by Detroit's dmen. They pretty much just decided on a whim to adopt Chicago's puck possession style as a last ditch effort, and its worked for 7 periods now. Why stop when its working good, right?

I've said this early in the year, Easy. The Sharks need a major overhaul in puck support. Nobody knows where the best place to pass the puck is when an agressive forechecker is bearing down because nobody is smart enough to move to places where the puck would follow you. Nobody except for Pavelski or Wellwood has that instinct on this team.

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Old
05-11-2011, 06:06 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Might've just been me but Marleau was better in this game than he was in the last one - I know people will tell me he could't possibly be worse but you can't pin this game or any goals against on Marleau.
Marleau took a bad cross-checking penalty in the neutral zone and got absolutely burned by Datsyuk on that scramble at the end of the second period. Datsyuk walked in all alone and created that pair of glorious scoring opportunities with a gaping right before that buzzer. On the play, Datsyuk started the play out with a give-and-go pass from the center red line, then blew past Marleau at the blue line like he was standing still (mostly because Marleau was standing still), then drove the net for his chance as Marleau coasted after him. Didn't go in, but definitely made me

So no goals, but not a good effort either, and poor execution on the few good opportunities he did have.

All that being said, Marleau does have the ability to turn it on. You can't afford to bench a guy with his skill and his proven abilities in a Game 7. Or pretty much any playoff game. The Sharks need him, he needs to be out there and he should be on the ice.

The real question in my mind is not whether or not Marleau should be out there, or whether or not Marleau should be replaced by Desjardins or Mayers (a bit of a silly emotional argument there), but whether or not he should be getting 23+ minutes a game.

I stand by what I've said since about Game 3 of the LA series......I think Marleau is hurt. He has occasional inconsistent bursts of speed, but for the most part, he hasn't moved his legs. He looked okay in Games 1 & 2 against LA, then I noticed a sharp dropoff for him in Games 3 & 4, and he doesn't appear to have recovered since.

I think he's injured. Which is fine in and of itself in that it explains why he isn't performing as he needs to be......but it doesn't excuse McLellan for continuously trotting him out there for 23+ mins/game, when the team's most productive players like Clowe, Couture and Pavelski are playing less than 20 mins/game.

If he's banged up, okay. Injured Marleau is still better (on paper) than Jamal Mayers. But injured Marleau is NOT better than healthy & productive Pavelski/Clowe/Couture. You need your best players to get the most ice time, and you need the players you give the most ice time to produce. Marleau's roster spot is more than justified. His ice time over better/healthier players is not.

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Old
05-11-2011, 08:54 AM
  #40
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You don't scratch a player with Marleau's skill in a game 7.

If TMac had any guts himself, he would've benched Marleau much earlier to try and and get something going.

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05-11-2011, 09:51 AM
  #41
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Of course not. We will live or die with Patty in our lineup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
I think he's injured. Which is fine in and of itself in that it explains why he isn't performing as he needs to be......but it doesn't excuse McLellan for continuously trotting him out there for 23+ mins/game, when the team's most productive players like Clowe, Couture and Pavelski are playing less than 20 mins/game.
Well part of the reason for putting the top line out there for big minutes is to draw the top defensive attention and wear at them, opening up the chances for the "most productive players" who aren't on that line. The top line gets that duty because in addition to game-controlling skill they (ostensibly) have size and physicality as well, whereas only Clowe really brings the body on the lower lines (making it no wonder he is leading the scoring).

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05-11-2011, 09:57 AM
  #42
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[QUOTE=SJGoalie32;32981192]Marleau took a bad cross-checking penalty in the neutral zone and got absolutely burned by Datsyuk on that scramble at the end of the second period. Datsyuk walked in all alone and created that pair of glorious scoring opportunities with a gaping right before that buzzer. On the play, Datsyuk started the play out with a give-and-go pass from the center red line, then blew past Marleau at the blue line like he was standing still (mostly because Marleau was standing still), then drove the net for his chance as Marleau coasted after him. Didn't go in, but definitely made me

So no goals, but not a good effort either, and poor execution on the few good opportunities he did have.

[QUOTE]

Not so sure why you quoted me, all I said was he was better in this game than the last and you say he took a bad penalty (which I thought was a pretty soft call but whatever) and that he got burned at the end of the 2nd per. when the Sharks were killing a penalty...

I didn't say he was good nor that he deserves the ice time he's getting. There were a LOT of plays by a LOT of players that made me shake my head. I didn't hop on the 'Waive Wallin' wagon and I'm not hopping on the 'Scratch Marleau' wagon either.

Easy made a very good point about the way the coaches are handing out ice time and it seems to be showing at the end of the games. There's no reason the 4th line should be getting less than 5/6 minutes or that Mitchell and Wellwood are seeing under 14.

This team will either all show up and play or they won't. It won't be Marleau winning or losing game 7 on his own.

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Old
05-11-2011, 10:12 AM
  #43
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if this was a game 3 or 4, sure. but this is game 7 and marleau, streaky as he is, is too talented to scratch. knock him down to the 3rd line, take him of the top PP... sure, you can do that. but take him out of the game completely, no.

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05-11-2011, 10:14 AM
  #44
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Based solely off the way he is playing, probably. Assuming there is a healthy scratch that SJ could sit him for. However, what makes sense isn't what Todd will do. So all is for naught.

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Originally Posted by ramstoria View Post
if this was a game 3 or 4, sure. but this is game 7 and marleau, streaky as he is, is too talented to scratch. knock him down to the 3rd line, take him of the top PP... sure, you can do that. but take him out of the game completely, no.
This.

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05-11-2011, 10:21 AM
  #45
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no. having marleau on jt wing means they get the datsyuk line and not coutures line

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05-11-2011, 10:26 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Well part of the reason for putting the top line out there for big minutes is to draw the top defensive attention and wear at them, opening up the chances for the "most productive players" who aren't on that line. The top line gets that duty because in addition to game-controlling skill they (ostensibly) have size and physicality as well, whereas only Clowe really brings the body on the lower lines (making it no wonder he is leading the scoring).
That might be an argument.....except that isn't what's happening.

Of Patrick Marleau's 18 shifts (12+ mins) over the first two periods, Lidstrom & Stuart were on the ice defending him only twice (give or take a few seconds of overlap on some changes on the fly).

The overwhelming majority of the time during the first two periods, Marleau was being defended by Detroit's 3rd line (yes, 3rd line) pairing of Rafalski and Salei.

Now in the 3rd period with the game on the line, when McLellan was specifically putting Marleau out more often and more frequently in the most critical moments (after TV timeouts, on the PP, as often as possible when battling for a goal)....basically the same moments you would expect Lidstrom & Stuart to be out there regardless of who they were matched up against.....that's when Marleau drew the top line D pairing.

Won't go back to look at shifts over the entire series, but I'd venture that Babcock stopped putting his top-line D against Marleau several games ago. Which leaves even less reason to keep bringing him out if he's injured.

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05-11-2011, 10:29 AM
  #47
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You can't scratch Marleau.

That said, he's been beyond abysmal, and the fact that he didn't respond to Roenick's very public lambasting with a strong effort just says to me he is a big ass part of the problem. He wasn't as terrible as he was in Game 5, but he wasn't much better either. This team doesn't need passengers and I don't think DW asking Marleau to waive his NMC at this point is totally out of the realm of possibility. It's probably not going to happen, but I think the door is cracked just a bit.

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05-11-2011, 10:34 AM
  #48
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Patrick Marleau has all the tools to be en elite player. Mentally, though, is where his issues lie. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, he has never truly beleived in himself. His play is hampered by self doubt, even at this stage in his career. People are different, what can you say? Some are mentally tougher than others. Can he perservere? It would be ludicrous to scratch him at this stage without completely turning the page and moving on in the off-season. What if you scratch him and you win? How do you put him back in?

As a Sens fan, I know how hard it can be to see all these stars and not win, or to lose in ways that suggest that the team is fragile mentally. Gutless? Scared to lose and they sometimes play that way. Nothing new here whether you are the Sharks or the Bruins of last year.

Heatley sure isn't helping things and am surprised that he has not been mentioned more than he has. He is losing battles along the boards and while he is not a physical player, he seems to be either hurt or not competing to the level that you would expect. If the Sharks are going to win they need him to score goals. He should have stayed with Spezza!

Good luck...I have a feeling that the Wings don't have much left in the tank and the Sharks should win. However, the wild card here is that the Wings are going in with momentum against a team that has showin itself to be fragile....that first goal will be huge tonight!

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05-11-2011, 11:36 AM
  #49
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05-11-2011, 12:21 PM
  #50
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no. having marleau on jt wing means they get the datsyuk line and not coutures line
This.

If SJ loses 4 in a row, I'd like to see the $20mil from Jumbo, Patty and Heater spent elsewhere. IMO, all 3 have been useless this series and I'm as fed up as anyone.

Reality, they have contracts and are going nowhere, so we might as well use them together to pull top defense away from our (superior) 2nd and 3rd lines... If they click (and they certainly have in the past) all the better.

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