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Should the Sharks scratch Marleau?? seriously.

View Poll Results: Should Marleau be scratched for game 7? seriously
No 89 63.12%
Yes 38 26.95%
Not sure 14 9.93%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-11-2011, 06:37 PM
  #76
SJeasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
Well, that would seem to correlate a bit with him playing so few shifts against Lidstrom/Stuart and so many against Rafalski/Salei.

Against worse D-pairings he's getting more quality opportunities.....but even still, he failed to capitalize on any of them and only managed to get just one shot on goal despite several good open looks.

Regardless, those chances are not being taken advantage of. So either he's not producing because he's not putting in the requisite effort, or he's not producing because he's injured.
I'm not entirely disagreeing and I do agree that qualcomp combined with chance generation is necessary. I have seen him doing a pile of net front duty which is effectively the non-producing part of the line in terms of the scoreboard. He is taking punishment whether others want to see it or not.

I put up the whole set of numbers so that others could see some of the issues beyond Marleau. And, some of those issues play into Marleau's issues. During the year, having Boyle behind the forwards was a key to scoring. In this post-season, that hasn't been working so well.

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05-11-2011, 10:47 PM
  #77
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First off, note that I am not defending Marleau's performance this far, but I am rubbishing the idea of scratching him or limiting the top line's minutes. That line plays too key a role for the team. While he may have played a part in the losses, scratching him would go a long way toward guaranteeing a loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
(Actually, I don't agree at all with the strategy of throwing Marleau for heavy minutes out there just to play the Detroit top line to a draw anyway.....but I'm playing along for argument's sake).

Went back and looked at Game 5 TOI charts. Marleau took 24 shifts over the first 2 periods....on 11 of them (less than half) he was matched up against the top D-pairing of Lidstrom and Stuart. Again, come the 3rd period Marleau is drawing the top D-pairing. But that's not the point.
From my cursory count, that's twice as much as any other line. There aren't only two lines, if the top line is drawing top D half the time, then the other lines are splitting up the other half. This talk about "most productive lines" seems to ignore the matchup question, why exactly they are more productive.

Again I'm not arguing Marleau's performance, but he is a matchup concern for the Wings regardless of his performance, and that alone makes him IMO unscratchable. He is part of our elite line and he needs to be out there, and we're reliant on his contributions for better or worse.


Last edited by Phu: 05-11-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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Old
05-11-2011, 11:15 PM
  #78
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Game 7. You need your best players on the ice. It's not the time to scratch them, even if they're not playing their best.

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05-12-2011, 09:38 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Hmm...

I'll agree Marleau hasn't produced, but pulling him off the Seto/Thornton line destroyed it. They had zero chances. With Marleau, Setoguchi had a hat trick.

Even if Marleau's playing terrible, he needs to get back on that line. ASAP.
Agree completely. Shuffling the lines so late in the series because of 1 scratch may have messed with our chemistry last game.

Not the only reason obviously, but when you are already low on confidence, having to adjust to a new line probably didnt help.

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05-12-2011, 10:50 PM
  #80
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Funny thread is funny.

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05-12-2011, 10:55 PM
  #81
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05-12-2011, 10:55 PM
  #82
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I think I heard a comment from Todd in the game today that backs up my theory on matching up our top line vs their best scorers. And then Thornton calling himself the shutdown center ... I know it was a funny comment, but I think there's a lot of truth behind it.

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05-12-2011, 11:03 PM
  #83
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ahhaha. glad i was wrong

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05-12-2011, 11:20 PM
  #84
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Cool story bro

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05-12-2011, 11:42 PM
  #85
WTFetus
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Despite scoring the game winning goal, Marleau still sucked for the majority of the game (definitely the first two periods).

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05-12-2011, 11:50 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Despite scoring the game winning goal, Marleau still sucked for the majority of the game (definitely the first two periods).
Hit on Kronwall along with a couple of other hits. Somewhat stellar PK, two takeaways and some bluepaint time. Some people need to give it a rest. Definitely better than previous games and is getting there.

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05-13-2011, 12:00 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Hit on Kronwall along with a couple of other hits. Somewhat stellar PK, two takeaways and some bluepaint time. Some people need to give it a rest. Definitely better than previous games and is getting there.
He started off well (first shift or two) and then reverted back for a while. He got better in the third, but that still doesn't excuse his poor 2/3rds of a game. He wasn't putting nearly as much effort on the backcheck as everyone else on the team, was losing board battles left and right, and had a few poor clearing attempts (not nearly as bad as Murray though).

I'm not just ripping on Marleau for the sake of it. Some people still need to take off the Marleau glasses. Again, he improved his play in the third, but was average and at times mediocre in the first and second.

Hopefully this game took the monkey off his back and he'll heat up in the CF. It was obvious he was gripping his stick too tightly this series, so a game winning goal should help a lot.

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05-13-2011, 12:07 AM
  #88
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All will be forgiven if he lights it up against Vancouver. Of course, I'd rather he not score 80% of our goals because that means we're in deep ****.

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05-13-2011, 12:14 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
He started off well (first shift or two) and then reverted back for a while. He got better in the third, but that still doesn't excuse his poor 2/3rds of a game. He wasn't putting nearly as much effort on the backcheck as everyone else on the team, was losing board battles left and right, and had a few poor clearing attempts (not nearly as bad as Murray though).

I'm not just ripping on Marleau for the sake of it. Some people still need to take off the Marleau glasses. Again, he improved his play in the third, but was average and at times mediocre in the first and second.

Hopefully this game took the monkey off his back and he'll heat up in the CF. It was obvious he was gripping his stick too tightly this series, so a game winning goal should help a lot.
When he is doing blue duty, he doesn't backcheck as well. I give whoever is doing that a pass on those shifts, Marleau, JT or whoever.

I have been seeing some stellar plays in the series along with some trash. When I see people ripping and calling his play total trash, I will disagree.

I agree about gripping tight. He does lose confidence in his shot and generally that is when we see blue duty. When he is on, he doesn't hit the goalie in the crest with saved shots; they end up as shoulder or blocker saves. He had a crest shot this game.

When I said about the PK work, he is winning stuff he normally doesn't win and jumping pucks for clears quick. He did do that.

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05-13-2011, 07:08 AM
  #90
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In the last two years, he's scored the GWG to eliminate the Wings.

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05-13-2011, 09:31 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
He started off well (first shift or two) and then reverted back for a while. He got better in the third, but that still doesn't excuse his poor 2/3rds of a game. He wasn't putting nearly as much effort on the backcheck as everyone else on the team, was losing board battles left and right, and had a few poor clearing attempts (not nearly as bad as Murray though).

I'm not just ripping on Marleau for the sake of it. Some people still need to take off the Marleau glasses. Again, he improved his play in the third, but was average and at times mediocre in the first and second.
My POV is that if you put a microscope on any player in any given game, you're going to see lots of mistakes. Hardly anyone plays a perfect game of hockey.

Marleau was skating hard last night and made an impact outside the score sheet. Good for him that he also scored our final goal, and he definitely needs to loosen up and get his shot back, but I wouldn't say he sucked for 2/3 of the game. That's harsh.

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05-13-2011, 09:38 AM
  #92
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I can assure you that we're all happy he stepped up and did something

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05-13-2011, 11:07 AM
  #93
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Marleau did play better in this game. He actually hit a couple guys in the first period. You can't argue with a game winning goal, especially 3-2 in a game 7, but Setoguchi actually did most of the work on that goal. That said, this in no way redeems Marleau. If he turns it around against Vancouver and the team also plays well then my opinion may change. After all, Thornton was garbage in the first 3 games against LA, but he has definitely turned it around. He'd have more assists if he had TWO linemates who could score, but there's the Marleau issue. I still think Marleau should be put into some kind of package to get a high quality defenseman along the lines of Shea Weber, but a great conference final and (hopefully) Stanley Cup final could change that.

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05-13-2011, 12:21 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richo View Post
Marleau did play better in this game. He actually hit a couple guys in the first period. You can't argue with a game winning goal, especially 3-2 in a game 7, but Setoguchi actually did most of the work on that goal. That said, this in no way redeems Marleau. If he turns it around against Vancouver and the team also plays well then my opinion may change. After all, Thornton was garbage in the first 3 games against LA, but he has definitely turned it around. He'd have more assists if he had TWO linemates who could score, but there's the Marleau issue. I still think Marleau should be put into some kind of package to get a high quality defenseman along the lines of Shea Weber, but a great conference final and (hopefully) Stanley Cup final could change that.
Did you want to get rid of JT after last year's Chicago series where he was owned by a 3rd line center?

No player is perfect.

Finally there are NMC's. This really needs to be put to rest. The only player recently pressured into waiving an NMC was McCabe and it took Burke almost a year to pull that off. Once a GM does that, he is likely out of the running for any FA of note.

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05-13-2011, 12:22 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richo View Post
Marleau did play better in this game. He actually hit a couple guys in the first period. You can't argue with a game winning goal, especially 3-2 in a game 7, but Setoguchi actually did most of the work on that goal. That said, this in no way redeems Marleau. If he turns it around against Vancouver and the team also plays well then my opinion may change. After all, Thornton was garbage in the first 3 games against LA, but he has definitely turned it around. He'd have more assists if he had TWO linemates who could score, but there's the Marleau issue. I still think Marleau should be put into some kind of package to get a high quality defenseman along the lines of Shea Weber, but a great conference final and (hopefully) Stanley Cup final could change that.
...and just like Jumbo was in those 3 games...I think Patty is injured and slowly getting a little healthier (hopefully) every day.

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05-13-2011, 12:27 PM
  #96
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To be fair to those who said "Yes", for all we know McGinn would have scored two goals and saved us some heartache

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05-13-2011, 12:28 PM
  #97
SJeasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
...and just like Jumbo was in those 3 games...I think Patty is injured and slowly getting a little healthier (hopefully) every day.
I am not saying Patty is injured, but some of the stuff he has been doing is decoy duty. It could be coverage. In the past when he has been injured, that is exactly what he has been doing. He has had a lot of blue paint time (which also kills his production). Seto is getting to the spots that Patty usually goes to and vice versa.

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05-13-2011, 12:38 PM
  #98
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Marleau scores in Game 5 of the 2010 WCSF series against the wings...SJ goes on to win 2-1

Marleau scores in Game 7 of the 2011 WCSF series against the wings...SJ goes on to win 3-2

Is it fair to class Marleau as a wing-killer despite his sins?

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05-13-2011, 12:54 PM
  #99
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Probably mis-clicked or was drunk when answering this poll... Not that it has any actual bearing on anything.

If you read my thoughts (wall of text) on the JR/Marleau, you get my actual answer.

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05-13-2011, 02:35 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I am not saying Patty is injured, but some of the stuff he has been doing is decoy duty. It could be coverage. In the past when he has been injured, that is exactly what he has been doing. He has had a lot of blue paint time (which also kills his production). Seto is getting to the spots that Patty usually goes to and vice versa.
I think they should keep Seto in those spots because Seto has been better offensively in Rd 2 than Marleau was in Rd 1.

But he's even more inconsistent, so I see them changing spots next round out of necessity.

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