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05-16-2011, 11:33 AM
  #201
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This core has won 6 playoff series the last few years. What should Washington do,trade Ovechkin?
No, but move Semin to get a better defensive lineup would certainly help. The signing of Arnott was too little too late. TB frustrated them by playing stingy defense, forcing the Caps fwds into making stupid plays because they thought they could try and outscore the Bolts. What was the difference in the series? Ironically an over-the-hill retread in Roloson.....i.e- goaltending. How about the Bruins series.......ummm, yup, goaltending.

Now, do you need stellar goaltending? Nope. How about a goalie who can stop the puck and make the extra timely save? Yup. Does Tim Thomas make the Flyers a better team? Yup. Even at $5million? Yup.

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05-16-2011, 11:35 AM
  #202
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Semin is not like Carter though. When that guy isn't scoring, he's a ghost. Carter at least plays defense and can get the puck from the other team. If Semin were on this team, I can only imagine the hatred for him on this forum. I'd probably be the conductor of the hate train.

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05-16-2011, 11:35 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
.....i.e- goaltending. How about the Bruins series.......ummm, yup, goaltending.

Now, do you need stellar goaltending? Nope. How about a goalie who can stop the puck and make the extra timely save? Yup. Does Tim Thomas make the Flyers a better team? Yup. Even at $5million? Yup.
Holmgren just called and says he disagrees with you on goaltending.

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05-16-2011, 11:40 AM
  #204
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He's a *ing free agent dude. He has free agent trade value, not #1 goalie value. What you are talking about is idiotic overpayment.
Was trading for Timonen/Hartnell overpayment? I have already made two suggestions that would help this team moving forward: Carter for Bryzgalov(deal in place), Pyatt, and #1 pick. Or switch that up to a legit #1 prospect, a #1 pick in 2011, and another 2nd rd pick 2012.

Either way it is just moving money to fill a need, much like they did with Gagne, who happens to be playing much further into the season than any Flyers players right now. Why, you ask......GOALTENDING.

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05-16-2011, 11:44 AM
  #205
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Semin is not like Carter though. When that guy isn't scoring, he's a ghost. Carter at least plays defense and can get the puck from the other team. If Semin were on this team, I can only imagine the hatred for him on this forum. I'd probably be the conductor of the hate train.
Agree to a point, there are times when they are mirror images of eachother, floating around the ice waiting for something to happen. That is where a guy like JvR holds so much potential IMO, he tries to make things happen, he is dictating the flow of the game with his skating, hitting, and battling.

Semin and Carter are both players who are being paid to score, when they do not score their value decreases exponentially. Semin as you pointed out, is a much bigger problem and a much bigger cap hit.

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05-16-2011, 11:44 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Semin is not like Carter though. When that guy isn't scoring, he's a ghost. Carter at least plays defense and can get the puck from the other team. If Semin were on this team, I can only imagine the hatred for him on this forum. I'd probably be the conductor of the hate train.
Exactly. When Carter isnt scoring goals he can do other things to help the team. play defense, play on the PK, win some faceoffs. You wonder why matchups among other things this team without a healthy Jeff Carter in the playoffs were an issue.

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05-16-2011, 11:47 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This core has won 6 playoff series the last few years. What should Washington do,trade Ovechkin?
Who on the Flyers are you comparing Ovechkin to?

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05-16-2011, 11:48 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Who on the Flyers are you comparing Ovechkin to?
He isn't comparing anyone on the Flyers to Ovechkin.

He's comparing situations...in this case, trading our best goal scorer to fix a problem instead of pursuing less panicky solutions.

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05-16-2011, 11:52 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
He isn't comparing anyone on the Flyers to Ovechkin.

He's comparing situations...in this case, trading our best goal scorer to fix a problem instead of pursuing less panicky solutions.
He made it seem that trading Carter would be equivalent to Washington trading Ovechkin though.

That's not nearly the case.

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05-16-2011, 11:53 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
He made it seem that trading Carter would be equivalent to Washington trading Ovechkin though.

That's not nearly the case.
I don't think you see what he's doing here.

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05-16-2011, 11:54 AM
  #211
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I don't think you see what he's doing here.
Maybe I don't. What's he trying to do?

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05-16-2011, 11:55 AM
  #212
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Say that trading your best goal scorer is usually unwise. He isn't saying Carter=OV.

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05-16-2011, 11:57 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Say that trading your best goal scorer is usually unwise. He isn't saying Carter=OV.

In that case then, trading Carter isn't unwise. We can't count on the guy when it matters the most.

This has been proven multiple times already.

In fact, we're all waiting for him to revert to mean.

Hasn't happened yet.

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05-16-2011, 11:58 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Was trading for Timonen/Hartnell overpayment? I have already made two suggestions that would help this team moving forward: Carter for Bryzgalov(deal in place), Pyatt, and #1 pick. Or switch that up to a legit #1 prospect, a #1 pick in 2011, and another 2nd rd pick 2012.
Timonen/Hartnell were acquired for a late 1st. So, let us not act as if the comparison you are making is a 1:1.

I want something better than Pyatt coming back from PHX for starters. Again, you're talking about a guy that you can pencil in as a top 10 goal scorer next year. On top of that, he's a top 10 goal scorer locked in to a reasonable cap hit through his prime.

Quote:
Either way it is just moving money to fill a need, much like they did with Gagne, who happens to be playing much further into the season than any Flyers players right now. Why, you ask......GOALTENDING.
I wonder who around here criticized Holmgren for not moving Gagne to make space for a goalie last summer...

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05-16-2011, 12:01 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
In that case then, trading Carter isn't unwise. We can't count on the guy when it matters the most.

This has been proven multiple times already.

In fact, we're all waiting for him to revert to mean.

Hasn't happened yet.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...datsypa01.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...sedinhe01.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...sedinda01.html

Tell me what you see there.

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05-16-2011, 12:01 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Say that trading your best goal scorer is usually unwise. He isn't saying Carter=OV.
Eh, was more getting at the fact that the assertion that the Flyers core is some abject failure is complete BS.

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05-16-2011, 12:02 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
In that case then, trading Carter isn't unwise. We can't count on the guy when it matters the most.

This has been proven multiple times already.

In fact, we're all waiting for him to revert to mean.

Hasn't happened yet.
You may want to check Carter's team stats to see just how many categories he is in the top 3 in, before you begin pushing for trading him. His departure would leave a very large hole.

You may also want to wait and see what he can do in the playoffs when he isn't playing injured.

edit: really, what Bernie said. Carter would need to return something awesome to make up for what we would be losing.

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05-16-2011, 12:04 PM
  #218
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Please allow me to pitch my tent non-euphemistically, of course between the two camps. Were I Paul Holmgren, I wouldn't be adamantly against trading Carter, but the deal would have to directly and definitively solve the need for a legit #1 goaltender. Carter for Miller, Rinne, Price, or Halak/Pietrangelo would do it for me. However, Carter for rights + odds/ends is not good asset management. He is much more valuable to the Flyers than this negligible return.

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05-16-2011, 12:04 PM
  #219
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Eh, was more getting at the fact that the assertion that the Flyers core is some abject failure is complete BS.
Oops.

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05-16-2011, 12:06 PM
  #220
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Oops.
It's all that Moderator power going to your head.

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05-16-2011, 12:07 PM
  #221
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Eh, was more getting at the fact that the assertion that the Flyers core is some abject failure is complete BS.
this. getting pretty sick of the whining, media and fans alike.

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05-16-2011, 12:24 PM
  #222
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It's all that Moderator power going to your head.
Yeah, all the hard drugs that come with this Moderator lifestyle really messes with you

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05-16-2011, 12:29 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Agree to a point, there are times when they are mirror images of eachother, floating around the ice waiting for something to happen. That is where a guy like JvR holds so much potential IMO, he tries to make things happen, he is dictating the flow of the game with his skating, hitting, and battling.

Semin and Carter are both players who are being paid to score, when they do not score their value decreases exponentially. Semin as you pointed out, is a much bigger problem and a much bigger cap hit.
If Carter is paid to score he should play centre, period. He didn't ask to go to RW, Lavi insisted on it so he went. That took a bite out of his goal production. Also, any time you're playing with guys who are weak defensively like Zherdev and Giroux, you have to be thinking of covering them. I have no problem with him as a 30-35 goal scorer as long as he maintains his defensive play and is put back at centre so he can take face offs. It's not all about scoring.

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05-16-2011, 12:42 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
He isn't comparing anyone on the Flyers to Ovechkin.

He's comparing situations...in this case, trading our best goal scorer to fix a problem instead of pursuing less panicky solutions.
Rank me your top 5 players in regards to importance on this roster. And is scoring a problem for the players on this roster?

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05-16-2011, 12:44 PM
  #225
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If Carter is paid to score he should play centre, period. He didn't ask to go to RW, Lavi insisted on it so he went. That took a bite out of his goal production. Also, any time you're playing with guys who are weak defensively like Zherdev and Giroux, you have to be thinking of covering them. I have no problem with him as a 30-35 goal scorer as long as he maintains his defensive play and is put back at centre so he can take face offs. It's not all about scoring.
I agree, Carter is best suited to be a center, but the problem is at this point he is 4th down the depth chart. Again, this is not about who plays best where, but what is the one area of weakness that hinders this team from winning a Cup? Goaltending.

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