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Is McLellan doing a good job?

View Poll Results: Is Todd McLellan doing a good job as a coach?
Yes, he's great. 33 47.14%
No, he is being out-coached. 14 20.00%
He's average 23 32.86%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-12-2011, 03:17 PM
  #51
rangerssharks414
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His lack of adjustments are very frustrating. I think he's above average, but just that, above average. I also think he's too laid back.

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Old
05-12-2011, 03:53 PM
  #52
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by rangerssharks414 View Post
His lack of adjustments are very frustrating. I think he's above average, but just that, above average. I also think he's too laid back.
He is relatively uncommunicative with the press. He definitely is not laid back. Very few coaches go after their own players individually for public consumption and thankfully he is not one of them.

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Old
05-12-2011, 03:58 PM
  #53
KpopandHockey
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He is relatively uncommunicative with the press. He definitely is not laid back. Very few coaches go after their own players individually for public consumption and thankfully he is not one of them.
One of the things I like about him. Listening to Wilson throw players under the bus to the media does not sit right with me. That's something you should be doing in private.

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Old
05-13-2011, 03:15 AM
  #54
Led Zappa
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
You are oversimplifying his points and exaggerating rather than addressing his points individually. I don't agree with all of his points, but I do on some.

If anything you have been doing the same thing by insisting that you "just have a feeling" about this team versus previous incarnations rather than support it with concrete evidence. Right now, the evidence hasn't been swinging in your favor. Topping it off you back off the "feeling" thing when it comes to Marleau with the unsupported assertions about his feelings and exaggerations about his poor play. Plus the Marleau assertions sort of deny your "feeling" about the team as a whole.

How about some supportable evidence pro or con?
Looks like my "feelings" were spot on. Ah ha ha ha

I love ya bro.

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05-13-2011, 10:04 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
The Coach sucks, The GM sucks, The D sucks, The Team Sucks.

No reading comprehension problem here.
Talk about taking things out of context and overexaggerating to bolster you stance. I'd say that's some serious comprehension issues.

Stop being such a drama queen.

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Old
05-13-2011, 12:11 PM
  #56
The JT Express
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He's a great coach. I was very skeptical when he decided to convert Joe into a defensive forward. That alone makes him qualified for the Jack Adams trophy.

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05-13-2011, 12:14 PM
  #57
Tkachuk4MVP
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He's a great coach. I was very skeptical when he decided to convert Joe into a defensive forward. That alone makes him qualified for the Jack Adams trophy.

Amen. And getting both him AND Heatley to play good defensive hockey is worth some other type of trophy altogether.

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Old
05-13-2011, 12:24 PM
  #58
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I rate him average because on the plus side, we are where we are, the conference finals. Only four teams are here. So he has done something right. I like his lines and defense pairings as well and he seems to have been vindicated so far for sticking with Niemi. However, I do have major problems with ToddM. This team is just too inconsistent from one game to the next and even from one ten minute block to another. The extended periods when we go into this running around in our own end with our heads cut off has gone on for a long time. Yes, players get tired. But this team doesn't have enough players who will crunch opponents into the boards. It's just sort of a trail the puck carrier around and try to contain him. I just don't get this style. Every player, even Marleau, is capable of checking. Why won't they do it?

Also, why hasn't TM noticed that opponents do very well setting up their big forward in front of the goalie to screen him. Lots of goals against are the result of Niemi not seeing the shot. We need to clear these guys out. They are allowed to camp out and are just not taken out. Additionally, why do we not do this on offense. We're always cycling the puck around, around, around. Occasionally, Thornton or Eager will set up in front, but they're the only ones. This is not rocket science.

The Sharks also make too many mental errors. Little things like clearing the puck all the way down when you're just a couple strides from the center line, causing an icing and not being able to change lines. Too many blind passes that turn into giveaways. Don't they practice these things? I'm left dumbfounded every time I see these mistakes. This is the NHL after all. I was taught these things in youth hockey.

Finally, hasn't TM ever heard of forechecking. The Sharks are probably the only team I see that just doesn't forecheck. Opponents are almost always allowed to come out of their zone unimpeded as the Sharks drop back in defense. This allows the other team to wind up and get open and brings many shots with great scoring opportunities. Forechecking pressure causes mistakes which leads to goals. For example, look at Couture's goal last night (though this was not a break out attempt by the Red Wings).

Until these basic issues are addressed, I can't give a vote of confidence to TM. However, as I said here we are again in the conference finals. Twenty six other teams would love to be here.

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Old
05-13-2011, 01:11 PM
  #59
SJeasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richo View Post
I rate him average because on the plus side, we are where we are, the conference finals. Only four teams are here. So he has done something right. I like his lines and defense pairings as well and he seems to have been vindicated so far for sticking with Niemi. However, I do have major problems with ToddM. This team is just too inconsistent from one game to the next and even from one ten minute block to another. The extended periods when we go into this running around in our own end with our heads cut off has gone on for a long time. Yes, players get tired. But this team doesn't have enough players who will crunch opponents into the boards. It's just sort of a trail the puck carrier around and try to contain him. I just don't get this style. Every player, even Marleau, is capable of checking. Why won't they do it?

Also, why hasn't TM noticed that opponents do very well setting up their big forward in front of the goalie to screen him. Lots of goals against are the result of Niemi not seeing the shot. We need to clear these guys out. They are allowed to camp out and are just not taken out. Additionally, why do we not do this on offense. We're always cycling the puck around, around, around. Occasionally, Thornton or Eager will set up in front, but they're the only ones. This is not rocket science.

The Sharks also make too many mental errors. Little things like clearing the puck all the way down when you're just a couple strides from the center line, causing an icing and not being able to change lines. Too many blind passes that turn into giveaways. Don't they practice these things? I'm left dumbfounded every time I see these mistakes. This is the NHL after all. I was taught these things in youth hockey.

Finally, hasn't TM ever heard of forechecking. The Sharks are probably the only team I see that just doesn't forecheck. Opponents are almost always allowed to come out of their zone unimpeded as the Sharks drop back in defense. This allows the other team to wind up and get open and brings many shots with great scoring opportunities. Forechecking pressure causes mistakes which leads to goals. For example, look at Couture's goal last night (though this was not a break out attempt by the Red Wings).

Until these basic issues are addressed, I can't give a vote of confidence to TM. However, as I said here we are again in the conference finals. Twenty six other teams would love to be here.
All teams are inconsistent. There isn't a coach in hockey who couldn't have that one laid at his feet.

They don't play contain as much as that with which we are accustomed.

Part of forechecking pressure is being close enough to apply it. Most of that is a speed issue. Same can be said for not reaching the centerline. The Sharks have sacrificed speed for size.

Various Sharks go to the net. Seto, Marleau, JT, Heatley, Pavs and Couture all spend a lot of time there. It can seem like they don't, but that may be when they aren't given time because they are dealing with puck recovery or retrieval or just the time needed to get to the net after they pass to a teammate. It is an elaborate ballet and the Sharks are actually better than most teams. What they do fall into is occasionally not staggering that net presence. You don't want all players on top of the goalie who will kick a rebound out beyond them to start an odd-man rush the other way.

They have cut down on giveaways but the giveaway/takeaway ratio still is not tops. They are getting there and much better than in the past.

All teams have issues clearing the net. The Sharks blueline isn't the biggest and there are rules that still apply. A dman can't come flying in from outside the crease area to clean someone out, it will be called. They have to establish position with an opponent and the stripes do allow wrestling matches. The issue is that while the Sharks have big forwards, their dmen are not so big giving a disadvantage in those wrestling matches.

If you want the defensive issues, the contain issue is a problem as was the pairings issue. They took far too long at the outset of the season to settle pairings to get proper skill mixes. That isn't entirely on TM; that is a task of the defensive AC, Yawney. The Sharks have traditionally played contained and they are doing it less so. Their answer is to bring the center very low for support. Those centers are still learning to bring the type of pressure that allows the dmen to step into their coverage. In that regard the Sharks are roughly at the middling point relative to the league. Another small part to the issue is rebound control, where Niemi is subpar. He is learning and getting better, but a controlled puck is frequently a team's answer to stopping a prolonged cycle.

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Old
05-13-2011, 01:39 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
All teams are inconsistent. There isn't a coach in hockey who couldn't have that one laid at his feet.

They don't play contain as much as that with which we are accustomed.

Part of forechecking pressure is being close enough to apply it. Most of that is a speed issue. Same can be said for not reaching the centerline. The Sharks have sacrificed speed for size.

Various Sharks go to the net. Seto, Marleau, JT, Heatley, Pavs and Couture all spend a lot of time there. It can seem like they don't, but that may be when they aren't given time because they are dealing with puck recovery or retrieval or just the time needed to get to the net after they pass to a teammate. It is an elaborate ballet and the Sharks are actually better than most teams. What they do fall into is occasionally not staggering that net presence. You don't want all players on top of the goalie who will kick a rebound out beyond them to start an odd-man rush the other way.

They have cut down on giveaways but the giveaway/takeaway ratio still is not tops. They are getting there and much better than in the past.

All teams have issues clearing the net. The Sharks blueline isn't the biggest and there are rules that still apply. A dman can't come flying in from outside the crease area to clean someone out, it will be called. They have to establish position with an opponent and the stripes do allow wrestling matches. The issue is that while the Sharks have big forwards, their dmen are not so big giving a disadvantage in those wrestling matches.

If you want the defensive issues, the contain issue is a problem as was the pairings issue. They took far too long at the outset of the season to settle pairings to get proper skill mixes. That isn't entirely on TM; that is a task of the defensive AC, Yawney. The Sharks have traditionally played contained and they are doing it less so. Their answer is to bring the center very low for support. Those centers are still learning to bring the type of pressure that allows the dmen to step into their coverage. In that regard the Sharks are roughly at the middling point relative to the league. Another small part to the issue is rebound control, where Niemi is subpar. He is learning and getting better, but a controlled puck is frequently a team's answer to stopping a prolonged cycle.
Good response.

However, I think a lot of the forechecking problem is commitment based not speed. Todd has even said so in interviews. Guys like Pavs and Couture are great forecheckers and are not fast. Guys like marleau should be good at forechecking but rarely commit to doing it.

This brings me to another point we were arguing about earlier Easy. Checking in the playoffs.

If you asked the Red Wings if they'd rather play a Sharks team who was coming at them with big hits and forechecking hard, versus the Sharks team that basically let's Detroit take their time on offense and doesn't hit them very frequently at all. What do you think they would say? and which team would have more turnovers?

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Old
05-13-2011, 02:16 PM
  #61
SJeasy
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Good response.

However, I think a lot of the forechecking problem is commitment based not speed. Todd has even said so in interviews. Guys like Pavs and Couture are great forecheckers and are not fast. Guys like marleau should be good at forechecking but rarely commit to doing it.

This brings me to another point we were arguing about earlier Easy. Checking in the playoffs.

If you asked the Red Wings if they'd rather play a Sharks team who was coming at them with big hits and forechecking hard, versus the Sharks team that basically let's Detroit take their time on offense and doesn't hit them very frequently at all. What do you think they would say? and which team would have more turnovers?
I will use two terms for forecheck, initial forecheck for zone entry and defensive forecheck for when the other team gains possession. IMO, the complaints are about the tenacity of the defensive forecheck. The Sharks are using F1, F2, F3 for initial forecheck. F2 is support and doesn't hit so much as he supports F1 by taking the puck out of the 50/50 battle. Marleau plays F2 for the most part, Seto F1. Couture's line really doesn't have a true F1. Mitchell does it for the Pavs line. The initial forecheck system of the Sharks worked fairly well even in the playoffs. Kind of matched what the Oil did to the Wings in their magical run.

On the defensive forecheck it's speed. Detroit's strength is its passing. They sacrifice speed and size to get that. The puck can move faster than feet anyway. They have adjusted somewhat with a little more size for their initial forecheck (Bertuzzi, Cleary, Franzen). They were taking the Sharks apart with their exits which they modified for this series. They usually don't go stretch and they did it to a tee just for the Sharks. It made the defensive forecheck of the Sharks look awful, with a small nod to Couture who probably was the best at lane anticipation with Pavelski and Wellwood vying for second best. It still wasn't good enough. To be effective against the Wings on their exits, it isn't so much forecheck. The Preds are the example of how to stop it, trap and transition and they enjoyed a lot of success against the Wings this year. They get to the passing lanes fast; they don't try to impose themselves physically on the passer.

If you want turnovers, you go trap and transition. If you want to do physical will, you do what the Sharks did. It isn't so much direct turnovers as it is winning more 50/50s than they lose. If they go for the hit on the defensive forecheck, they lose. It's fine on the offensive forecheck, but they need to do it smart. Get one hit on the initial dump and then go for puck support. The Wings' passing is that accurate that if a team is hitting all over the ice, the Wings will make them pay for losses in coverage. Going F1, F2 precludes a trap and transition system where there is really only one initial forechecker.

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Old
05-13-2011, 02:56 PM
  #62
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I think TMac is an awesome coach who seems to keep his cool and calm his guys in tough situations; I'd point, for example, to the comeback in L.A. Glad we got him

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