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Canucks Injury Thread - Mason Raymond's Career in Jeopardy?

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05-23-2011, 06:57 PM
  #201
monster_bertuzzi
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Opinions like this are completely retarded. There's more that goes into coaching than making perfect personnel decisions. Or do you people actually believe that all a coach does is pick a line-up and tell them to go out there and play?

Every coach, just like every player, has things he's good at and things he's not good at.
Im not saying he's a bad coach. But he is working with, obviously, the best roster in the league top to bottom IMO and yet it is still an adventure for us.

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05-23-2011, 06:59 PM
  #202
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McGinn was the one that said he hoped we'd fall apart without Ehrhoff and Rome. Well this would be karma if Joe plays and is well below 100%.
Haha stupid McGinn. We only got better by losing Rome.

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05-23-2011, 07:09 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Im not saying he's a bad coach. But he is working with, obviously, the best roster in the league top to bottom IMO and yet it is still an adventure for us.
Boo!

Did you not notice that the biggest spread between any two teams in the standings was between us and #2?

Did you notice that we lost a huge number of man-games to injury?

Did you notice how we managed to lead the league in both GF and GA, along with a top end PP and PK (with credit obviously to the assistants)?

Boo! Boo, I say!

I guess Scotty Bowman winning all those cups with the Habs in the 70s was just because they were the best team? Same when he took Mario's Pens to the cup? Yeah, I thought so.

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05-23-2011, 07:19 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Im not saying he's a bad coach. But he is working with, obviously, the best roster in the league top to bottom IMO and yet it is still an adventure for us.
Is it really the best roster though? With Malhotra and Samuelsson out I wouldn't say the Canucks' forward corps looks particularly daunting after the Sedins and Kesler.

Higgins (barely cracked the top 6 in Florida) and Raymond (had a pretty disappointing season and was relegated to the 3rd line before Samuelsson's injury got the better of him) have been getting consistent top 6 time. Not to mention Lapierre (basically a cast off) getting key minutes and guys like Glass, Hodgson, and Oreskovich playing almost every game.


If the Canucks win this series, their team depth is going to look pretty tame compared to some past Western Conference champions and I think that has to speak well of the coaching staff and the team's core players:


Chicago: Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Byfuglien, Ladd, and Versteeg on forward; Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, and Campbell on defense.

Detroit: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hossa, Holmstrom, Samuelsson, Cleary, Hudler, Filppula on forward; Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart on defense.

Anaheim: Getzlaf, Perry, Selanne, McDonald, Kunitz, Moen, Penner, and Pahlsson on forward; Pronger, Niedermayer, Beauchimen, and O'Donnell on defense

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05-23-2011, 10:38 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Is it really the best roster though? With Malhotra and Samuelsson out I wouldn't say the Canucks' forward corps looks particularly daunting after the Sedins and Kesler.

Higgins (barely cracked the top 6 in Florida) and Raymond (had a pretty disappointing season and was relegated to the 3rd line before Samuelsson's injury got the better of him) have been getting consistent top 6 time. Not to mention Lapierre (basically a cast off) getting key minutes and guys like Glass, Hodgson, and Oreskovich playing almost every game.
Higgins has played like a top 6 player since coming, so where he played on FLA is completely irrelevant. Raymond has been good, could use a bit more finish, but he's fine. Lapierre may be a cast off, but so what. He's been outstanding.

I don't really understand how it makes any difference what people thought about a player months ago.....it's what they are doing now. Right now, this team has three very good lines clicking up front just fine.

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05-23-2011, 10:43 PM
  #206
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Lapierre is a cast off this season, doesn't mean he has come out of the blue here. He had 15 goals and 30 points 2 years ago as well as a great run with the Habs in the playoffs last year, playing as well - if not better there than he has for us.

Comparing AV with Scotty Bowman now?

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05-23-2011, 10:48 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by CaNuCk#88 View Post
What does AV have to do with Grabner getting traded? Some people on this board are delusional.
If Grabner was given more chance to play, he might able to score 20 goals for us, do you think Gillis will trade Grabner or Raymond for Ballard?

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05-23-2011, 11:00 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
Higgins has played like a top 6 player since coming, so where he played on FLA is completely irrelevant. Raymond has been good, could use a bit more finish, but he's fine. Lapierre may be a cast off, but so what. He's been outstanding.

I don't really understand how it makes any difference what people thought about a player months ago.....it's what they are doing now. Right now, this team has three very good lines clicking up front just fine.
And the argument would follow that those players are having their success in part because the Canucks' system is very effective and the coaching staff helps bring out the best in them. This is backed up by the team cycling through 13 defensemen this season and not really missing a beat.

Some of AV's decisions baffle me and I've never been one of his biggest fans, but at some point the coaching staff has to share credit in the team's success. In some ways AV is the Luongo of coaches; when they win it's the players and when they lose it's the coaching. This roster is not that good that they could only be derailed by poor coaching in the playoffs.

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05-23-2011, 11:32 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
And the argument would follow that those players are having their success in part because the Canucks' system is very effective and the coaching staff helps bring out the best in them. This is backed up by the team cycling through 13 defensemen this season and not really missing a beat.

Some of AV's decisions baffle me and I've never been one of his biggest fans, but at some point the coaching staff has to share credit in the team's success. In some ways AV is the Luongo of coaches; when they win it's the players and when they lose it's the coaching. This roster is not that good that they could only be derailed by poor coaching in the playoffs.
Great points.

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05-24-2011, 01:22 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Ben Kuzma speculates the Ehrhoff injury was a stinger. Seems possible as even a mild separation usually requires a sling for at least a few days.
Ehrhoff may have got away with a stinger, instead of shoulder separation. Skated today, day-to-day. Wouldn't rush him back though.
by benkuzma via twitter at 1:01 PM
I don't care what a beat reporter that has access to the team has to say. What is your expert opinion?

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05-24-2011, 01:31 AM
  #211
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05-24-2011, 02:10 AM
  #212
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i'm actually really worried about rome, the person. if he never played again this playoffs it doesn't matter much because we have better defencemen waiting to play, but honestly

when sami salo got hurt, we got pretty timely updates, this thing with rome is complete, total secrecy - similar to malhotra. the injury is likely not as bad, but it's clearly still really bad in itself and I hope he's alright. it would be nice if they'd say something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Im not saying he's a bad coach. But he is working with, obviously, the best roster in the league top to bottom IMO and yet it is still an adventure for us.
is marian hossa going to the box with a 5 minute major only to be bailed the **** out by martin erat, a bad bounce and a great goal by kane Q's doing, or does he get credit for being a great coach with his hilariously talented, superstacked team because he's not in Vancouver?

every team has an adventure in the playoffs.


Last edited by Verviticus: 05-24-2011 at 02:17 AM.
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Old
05-24-2011, 02:17 AM
  #213
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I believe the team's official position in the playoffs has been to not talk about injuries with the media.

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Old
05-24-2011, 07:17 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
Higgins has played like a top 6 player since coming, so where he played on FLA is completely irrelevant. Raymond has been good, could use a bit more finish, but he's fine. Lapierre may be a cast off, but so what. He's been outstanding.

I don't really understand how it makes any difference what people thought about a player months ago.....it's what they are doing now. Right now, this team has three very good lines clicking up front just fine.
They are getting it done in the POs as a team, so it's all good; but I will point out that as good as Higgins and Raymond have been, their PO numbers aren't that great. We're in the 3rd round and they have 2-3 goals each, 6-8 points. And none of em came close to 15-20 goals in the reg season.

Yes, I know hockey is more than numbers, but regardless.. there is no getting around the fact that among forwards, Van has only three star players surrounded by good but not great players.

That is low for winning a Cup. Could still be done, Carolina did it. But a rarity.

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05-24-2011, 07:20 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
I don't really understand how it makes any difference what people thought about a player months ago.....it's what they are doing now. Right now, this team has three very good lines clicking up front just fine.
They are clicking, but it's working cuz the Sedins are on fire. And before that Kesler was on fire.

The trouble would come next round if both Sedins and Kesler get shut down; there is no one else capable of picking up the team on their shoulders and carrying.

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05-24-2011, 07:34 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
They are clicking, but it's working cuz the Sedins are on fire. And before that Kesler was on fire.

The trouble would come next round if both Sedins and Kesler get shut down; there is no one else capable of picking up the team on their shoulders and carrying.
You state the obvious. No team can survive their three star players being no shows in a series barring a miracle.

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05-24-2011, 07:49 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
They are getting it done in the POs as a team, so it's all good; but I will point out that as good as Higgins and Raymond have been, their PO numbers aren't that great. We're in the 3rd round and they have 2-3 goals each, 6-8 points. And none of em came close to 15-20 goals in the reg season.
Huh? Raymond had 15 goals in 70 games. Higgins had 13 goals in 62 games split between Florida and Vancouver. That looks pretty close to 15 goals to me.

Also, they are 5th and 6th on the team in playoff scoring for forwards. Given that they are top-6 forwards with limited power play time, I'd say they're par for their roles.

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05-24-2011, 08:10 AM
  #218
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^ this + Doesn't Higgins have 3 GWG's in this playoff run?

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05-24-2011, 08:27 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Comparing AV with Scotty Bowman now?
I wasn't comparing AV to Scotty Bowman, I was comparing you to someone who has no clue what they're talking about.

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05-24-2011, 11:53 AM
  #220
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The official Canucks twitter reported (paraphrasing here) that everyone but Ehrhoff was on the ice for morning skate. Shortly thereafter, they RT'd someone asking about Rome with an addendum 'sorry, no Rome either'.

Very likely they just forgot/missed him but I wonder if his injury isn't more serious and it was assumed he'd be out for the foreseeable future?

If the Army is asked about involvement in a situation and they say "not involved", then a similar situation comes up and they say no comment, you can loosely infer no comment means yes.. I wonder if Ehrhoff being day-to-day and no update on Rome has the same idea. Would support the "Rome is more seriously hurt" theory..

Both ideas long shots but I wonder how long we see Ballard/Tanev; when Ehrhoff is back does Alberts draw in instead? Does it matter depending on who we play in the final?

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05-24-2011, 12:10 PM
  #221
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Im not saying he's a bad coach. But he is working with, obviously, the best roster in the league top to bottom IMO and yet it is still an adventure for us.
Even if the Canucks had the best roster in the league, and the best coaching in the league, do you think they would go 82-0, then 16-0?

In a game where luck accounts for somewhere between 36 and 50 percent of all goals (depending on which method of evaluation you prefer), and dealing with injuries, reffing, bad ice, a hot (opposing) goaltender.. You're not going to win every game, and you're not going to be the best team on the ice every game.

Perfection, while certainly the goal, is not plausible, so why should we (you) demand it? Three chances to close out the conference final, two on home ice, is an enviable position by 29 other teams right now. There are players up for EVERY major award except the Norris. There is a Canuck leading the playoff scoring race. Accomplished while dressing how many different players? Missing how many mangames to injury? Playing rookies in the playoffs?

What more could this team do to this point, really..? Were you expecting 2-3 sweeps and the other series' in 5?

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05-24-2011, 12:49 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Some of AV's decisions baffle me and I've never been one of his biggest fans, but at some point the coaching staff has to share credit in the team's success. In some ways AV is the Luongo of coaches; when they win it's the players and when they lose it's the coaching. This roster is not that good that they could only be derailed by poor coaching in the playoffs.
When you have other coaches talking about how well the Canucks do all the little things on the ice, you know he's doing something right behind the bench. We'll never agree with 100% of his decisions and he'll never make the right decision 100% of the time but nobody does. Every coach has their "guys" that their fans think get played too much.

The Canucks may have a deep team but it's hardly this crazy stacked team on paper especially after the Sedins/Kesler up front. Most of these guys are cast-offs from other teams.

We all think Mike Gillis is a very smart and detailed GM, right? He came in probably thinking he was going to fire Vigneault but after extensive meetings, AV convinced him that he was the man for the job. Not only that but he convinced him to get another extension. That's pretty rare. A GM comes in with a new vision for the team and he retains the coach not once but twice?

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05-24-2011, 12:59 PM
  #223
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We all think Mike Gillis is a very smart and detailed GM, right? He came in probably thinking he was going to fire Vigneault but after extensive meetings, AV convinced him that he was the man for the job. Not only that but he convinced him to get another extension. That's pretty rare. A GM comes in with a new vision for the team and he retains the coach not once but twice?
One would've thought if Gillis had any reservations about AV as coach - he would've fired him during that incredible losing streak a few years ago.

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05-24-2011, 01:48 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
i'm actually really worried about rome, the person. if he never played again this playoffs it doesn't matter much because we have better defencemen waiting to play, but honestly

when sami salo got hurt, we got pretty timely updates, this thing with rome is complete, total secrecy - similar to malhotra. the injury is likely not as bad, but it's clearly still really bad in itself and I hope he's alright. it would be nice if they'd say something.
Honestly, I don't care. On other teams Ballard would have been playing over Rome. A struggling Ballard is still better in every aspect then Rome. Rome seems like a good guy but besides injuries we shouldn't have room on this team for him. Especially considering how well Alberts has made the transformation from last year.

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05-24-2011, 03:14 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
We all think Mike Gillis is a very smart and detailed GM, right? He came in probably thinking he was going to fire Vigneault but after extensive meetings, AV convinced him that he was the man for the job. Not only that but he convinced him to get another extension. That's pretty rare. A GM comes in with a new vision for the team and he retains the coach not once but twice?
In his first interviews as GM Gillis said he thought Vigneault had done the job well with the team he'd been given. Didn't say such nice things about the Sedins tho.

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