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2011 NHL Entry Draft/Other Prospects (All NON-RANGERS Prospect Discussion - Part 3) ‎

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Old
06-06-2011, 10:14 PM
  #701
Chalfdiggity3
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I completely agree this is the draft where you swing for the fenced on. After reading that report I would live to draft him or puempel at 15.

Any way you can post puempels scouting and prediction? If you have time, thanks.

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06-06-2011, 10:18 PM
  #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
any chance you can post RLR's top 15 with projections and 'style compare to'? thanks
Without the scouting reports. Here's the top 15 with projections and comparisions.

1) Ryan Nugent Hopkins
Projection : Star Cilibre First Line Pivot
Style Compares to Pavel Datsyuk

2) Gabriel Landeskog
Projection : Top line power winger for upper tier club
Style compares to Brendan Shannahan

3) Adam Larsson
Projection : Top pairing "D" and first unit PK Duty
Style compares to Brent Seabrook

4) Johnathan Huberdeau
Projection : 1st line scorer can help at both wing and center
Style compares to Vinnie Damphousse

5) Dougie Hamilton
Projection : Top pairing D who logs huge minutes
Style compares to Alex Pietrangelo

6) Ryan Murphy
Projection : Dynamic offensive D struggles defensively
Style compares to Brian Leetch

7) Ryan Strome
Projection : Top line scoring center for mid echelon team
Style compares to Martin Havlat

8) Sean Couterier
Projection : 2nd line two way center for top tier club
Style compares to Jordan Staal

9) JT Miller
Projection : Strong second liner for a cup contender
Style compares to Erik Cole

10) Rocco Grimaldi
Projection : Top line scorer who converts to wing as a pro
Style compares to Theo Fleury

11) Oscar Klefbom
Projection : All situation #2 blueliner and PP helper
Style compares to Brent Burns

12) Mark Scheifele
Projection : 2nd line scoring center
Style compares to Jeff Carter

13) Alex Khokhlachev
Projection : Legitimate 2nd line scoring center
Style compares to Tomas Plekanec

14) Mika Zibanejad
Projection : 2nd liner with size and speed on a strong club
Style compares to Brendan Morrow

15) Matt Puempel
Projection : 2nd line sniper and key PP guy
Style compares to : Patrick Sharp

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06-06-2011, 10:19 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea we all know Grimaldi is easily the most gifted player in the draft and would be without a doubt the consensus #1 overall pick if he were 5-10 or 5-11 and 170 or 180 lbs.

But the kid is 5-6, 160. If that.

If we draft him, he better eat a crap load of red meet and lift a ton of weights.
and i think a big part of the concern with his size is that we already have some smaller guys like cally and thomas. can you have that many smurfs in the lineup?

now at 15 there is a chance that he'll be so significantly better talent-wise than the other forwards so its worth taking the risk...

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06-06-2011, 10:21 PM
  #704
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Except Leetch didn't struggle defensively. He was actually very solid fundamentally, smart, and positionally sound.

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06-06-2011, 10:22 PM
  #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Without the scouting reports. Here's the top 15 with projections and comparisions.

1) Ryan Nugent Hopkins
Projection : Star Cilibre First Line Pivot
Style Compares to Pavel Datsyuk

2) Gabriel Landeskog
Projection : Top line power winger for upper tier club
Style compares to Brendan Shannahan

3) Adam Larsson
Projection : Top pairing "D" and first unit PK Duty
Style compares to Brent Seabrook

4) Johnathan Huberdeau
Projection : 1st line scorer can help at both wing and center
Style compares to Vinnie Damphousse

5) Dougie Hamilton
Projection : Top pairing D who logs huge minutes
Style compares to Alex Pietrangelo

6) Ryan Murphy
Projection : Dynamic offensive D struggles defensively
Style compares to Brian Leetch

7) Ryan Strome
Projection : Top line scoring center for mid echelon team
Style compares to Martin Havlat

8) Sean Couterier
Projection : 2nd line two way center for top tier club
Style compares to Jordan Staal

9) JT Miller
Projection : Strong second liner for a cup contender
Style compares to Erik Cole

10) Rocco Grimaldi
Projection : Top line scorer who converts to wing as a pro
Style compares to Theo Fleury

11) Oscar Klefbom
Projection : All situation #2 blueliner and PP helper
Style compares to Brent Burns

12) Mark Scheifele
Projection : 2nd line scoring center
Style compares to Jeff Carter

13) Alex Khokhlachev
Projection : Legitimate 2nd line scoring center
Style compares to Tomas Plekanec

14) Mika Zibanejad
Projection : 2nd liner with size and speed on a strong club
Style compares to Brendan Morrow

15) Matt Puempel
Projection : 2nd line sniper and key PP guy
Style compares to : Patrick Sharp
thanks...

these projections have me warming up to the idea of rocco

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06-06-2011, 10:22 PM
  #706
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Pretty sure Leslie already has said that, according to her sources, Grimaldi is not a target.

As for the RLR projections, but, if Scheifele compares to Jeff Carter, that's more than a 2nd line center, IMO.

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Old
06-06-2011, 10:23 PM
  #707
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I have seen quite a few mentions of Oleksiak and apparently there's a decent chance he's on the board at 15. But what about Ryan Murphy and Duncan Siemans? Certainly one of them could fall a bit and be on the board when we're up...while I don't know much about them I'd have to think either would be a solid value at our spot. Considering the scouting reports I've read on some of the forwards we (at least here on HF) are targeting, it might actually work out to our advantage if one of them falls and we go D again. Since none of these kids are likely to play for a couple of years I think we are all a bit hung up on drafting a forward. With so many solid D prospects we could certainly deal from a position of strength to land some offense.

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Old
06-06-2011, 10:30 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea we all know Grimaldi is easily the most gifted player in the draft and would be without a doubt the consensus #1 overall pick if he were 5-10 or 5-11 and 170 or 180 lbs.

But the kid is 5-6, 160. If that.

If we draft him, he better eat a crap load of red meet and lift a ton of weights.
I wouldn't mind if we move down to ~22-24ish and pick him. With this weak a draft, I think it would be worth it to take a shot at him. We're not going to be getting anyone wow-worthy at 15 and we need first line talent, not more 2nd-3rd liners - we should risk it.

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06-06-2011, 10:33 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Pretty sure Leslie already has said that, according to her sources, Grimaldi is not a target.

As for the RLR projections, but, if Scheifele compares to Jeff Carter, that's more than a 2nd line center, IMO.
RLR compared hugh to joe thornton...so fun for discussion but i don't put much weight into it....

i know leslie said that the other day but didn't specify a reason if it was more than lack of size...in a draft like this though not sure you can rule anyone out until you see how the draft pans out thru the first 14 picks. well i guess anyone outside your top 15 you can rule out but you know what i mean

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06-06-2011, 10:34 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
and i think a big part of the concern with his size is that we already have some smaller guys like cally and thomas. can you have that many smurfs in the lineup?

now at 15 there is a chance that he'll be so significantly better talent-wise than the other forwards so its worth taking the risk...
No doubt he will be the most gifted player available.

But I still don't know if I can justify drafting a player that small in the first round. At #15 no less.

His talent is NHL caliber right now.

But he will take years until he can grow HOPEFULLY two to three inches taller and gain at least 15 lbs.

160 isn't going to last a minute in the NHL.

If he can get to 5-9, 175 that would be monumentally better. And that's still very small by NHL standards.

Zuccarello is bigger then Grimaldi... that's a little disturbing.

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06-06-2011, 10:36 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Pretty sure Leslie already has said that, according to her sources, Grimaldi is not a target.

As for the RLR projections, but, if Scheifele compares to Jeff Carter, that's more than a 2nd line center, IMO.
Style compares to Carter. Not necessarily talent wise.

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Old
06-06-2011, 10:38 PM
  #712
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If Zibanejad dropped to #14 and we didn't trade up, I would be pissed.

He's not going to drop though. No way.

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Old
06-06-2011, 10:39 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If Zibanejad dropped to #14 and we didn't trade up, I would be pissed.

He's not going to drop though. No way.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Devils pick Zibs up @ 4, to be honest.

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06-06-2011, 11:13 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea we all know Grimaldi is easily the most gifted player in the draft and would be without a doubt the consensus #1 overall pick if he were 5-10 or 5-11 and 170 or 180 lbs.

But the kid is 5-6, 160. If that.

If we draft him, he better eat a crap load of red meet and lift a ton of weights.
He is actually decently strong already. He is not weak, he is just short.

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Old
06-06-2011, 11:24 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Except Leetch didn't struggle defensively. He was actually very solid fundamentally, smart, and positionally sound.
Later in his career, he was terrific defensively, but when he was a teenager, he looked like MDZ in his own zone.

This should be a lesson to Del Zotto: he really can be good defensively if he works hard on it.

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Old
06-06-2011, 11:37 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Later in his career, he was terrific defensively, but when he was a teenager, he looked like MDZ in his own zone.

This should be a lesson to Del Zotto: he really can be good defensively if he works hard on it.
and lesson to fans to be patient with him

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06-07-2011, 06:38 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
and lesson to fans to be patient with him
and lesson to sather: dont trade him at the draft unless the rangers can a deal they cant refuse.

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06-07-2011, 08:48 AM
  #718
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If the Devils pick Zibanejad, i'll also be annoyed.

That would be two years straight that a rival team drafted the player I wanted in the first round in the top five wen projections had those players going lower.

Niederreiter last year and Zibanejad this year.

Hope it doesn't happen that way.

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Old
06-07-2011, 08:49 AM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
RLR compared hugh to joe thornton...so fun for discussion but i don't put much weight into it....

i know leslie said that the other day but didn't specify a reason if it was more than lack of size...in a draft like this though not sure you can rule anyone out until you see how the draft pans out thru the first 14 picks. well i guess anyone outside your top 15 you can rule out but you know what i mean
Leslie was there first hand for that... I definately trust her opinion. Just relaying what others are saying.

The people at ISS also hinted that the Rangers may have interest in Grimaldi. Personally, I like the high risk/high reward in drafting a guy like him. However i think the odds are stacked against him as there are what 4 guys already on the current squad under 6ft, plus a few solid prospects as well.

Callahan
Zuccarello
Avery
Drury
MDZ? Not sure if he's 6ft?

In the system
Bourque
Thomas

I guess the argument can certainly be made that they may shy away from him for lack of size however, you also have to figure this kid is probalby a couple of years away right? At that point it is almost certain that Drury will be gone. Likely that Avery will be gone too. That would leave Zucc, Bourque, Thomas. 4 potential forwards under 6ft all with a pretty good shot at making the team at the same time. Add Rocco...and you have the rebirth of Smurfs!

I still think McNeill is the guy if he's there though.

I rememer reading somewhere that Gordie mentioned something about a Western kid he was high on. Does anyone have that link anywhere?

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06-07-2011, 09:06 AM
  #720
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We need to try for top line talent at this point. From everything I have read, McNeil and Scheifele are nice players, but don't seem to project to be anything more than a 2nd or 3rd liner. We already have a glut of those type players.

We need to swing for the fences in this kind of a draft. Grimaldi has legit 1st line talent, and will more than likely be available where we pick. If Grimaldi busts, we're in the same position we would be if we drafted McNeil of Scheifele, having a glut of depth while starved of elite talent. I would take a 10% chance that Grimaldi can handle the physical rigors of the NHL and become a legit 1st liner over a 100% chance that McNeil or Scheifele become a 2nd/3rd liner. That's how badly we need talent on this team. The Washington series showed me that no matter how hard this team works and outplays their opponent, there are certain teams we will never be able to defeat. Sometimes, a difference in talent level cannot be bridged by superior effort.

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06-07-2011, 10:08 AM
  #721
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Who is the guy that will sky rocket up the league-wide prospect rankings? Thats all I care about. No biggie if the guy doesnt pan out.

#braggingrightsbaby

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06-07-2011, 10:22 AM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Leslie was there first hand for that... I definately trust her opinion. Just relaying what others are saying.
oh i'm not doubting leslie and what she reported...just pointing out that there was no clarification on why the rangers don't like him. its possible that due to his size or maybe they don't like his attitude or something and they wouldn't want him at any point in the draft. also possible that they aren't interested in him at #15 because they know there will be players they like better still on the board, but later in the draft if we pick up an extra pick maybe its different.

it was more thinking out loud wondering why they don't like him...not doubting leslie's info that they don't in fact like him.

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06-07-2011, 10:28 AM
  #723
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
We need to try for top line talent at this point. From everything I have read, McNeil and Scheifele are nice players, but don't seem to project to be anything more than a 2nd or 3rd liner. We already have a glut of those type players.

We need to swing for the fences in this kind of a draft. Grimaldi has legit 1st line talent, and will more than likely be available where we pick. If Grimaldi busts, we're in the same position we would be if we drafted McNeil of Scheifele, having a glut of depth while starved of elite talent. I would take a 10% chance that Grimaldi can handle the physical rigors of the NHL and become a legit 1st liner over a 100% chance that McNeil or Scheifele become a 2nd/3rd liner. That's how badly we need talent on this team. The Washington series showed me that no matter how hard this team works and outplays their opponent, there are certain teams we will never be able to defeat. Sometimes, a difference in talent level cannot be bridged by superior effort.
unless we get lucky and someone falls to us, i'm not sure anyone we pick at 15 in this draft will be a legit 1st liner. and with only 1 pick in the top 105 is it the year to take a risk on a high risk player and risk ending up with nothing from the whole draft?? I'd feel alot more comfortable doing that if we had multiple picks.

and here is another way to potentially look at it...lets say we get scheifele, who has 1st line potential but realistically could end up being a 2nd liner. at that point you more or less have dubinsky, callahan, stepan, anisimov, kreider, scheifele, etc as guys that are good 2nd/3rd liners but not quite 1st liners. given that depth in this type of player does that allow us to trade from strength and turn 1 of these guys plus 1 of our extra dmen into a top line talent?? instead of just hoping to get lucky in the draft.

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06-07-2011, 10:34 AM
  #724
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I don't know why everyone is being so critical of "going for talent" in this draft. This draft sucks. You go for the player you think has the best chance of being a valuable NHLer, and then you swing the fences in the 2012 draft, which is being appraised for it's skill level and talent. I'd look to move down and add depth to the prospect pool, as opposed to moving up, as it is not realistic to move up to a spot where the Rangers would be able to pick that potential 1st liner; no one will be willing to move those picks unless it is for massive overpayment.

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06-07-2011, 10:47 AM
  #725
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I don't know why everyone is being so critical of "going for talent" in this draft. This draft sucks. You go for the player you think has the best chance of being a valuable NHLer, and then you swing the fences in the 2012 draft, which is being appraised for it's skill level and talent. I'd look to move down and add depth to the prospect pool, as opposed to moving up, as it is not realistic to move up to a spot where the Rangers would be able to pick that potential 1st liner; no one will be willing to move those picks unless it is for massive overpayment.
to get into the top 7-8 it will cost alot...the only reason to trade up into the 9-10 spot (besides obviously some slipping) would be if you felt 1 guy was clearly above the rest of that next 'group'. if you feel scheifele, mcneil, miller, bartschi, armia, and puempel are interchangable then you stay at 15 and take whoever is left...but if you think scheifele's potential separates him from the group then you might still look to move up to ensure that you get him.

and as far getting 'talent' and going with a high risk player. i have to question the upside potential of some of these high risk players. like with rocco, its not like other small players haven't been ranked high before. if everyone after #9 is 2nd and 3rd line talent and he is 1st line talent then wouldn't you think despite size he'd be ranked higher? I can see putting him lower than equal talents due to his size, but if his upside is really that much higher?

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