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Cory Schneider to the Devils

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Old
05-14-2011, 10:57 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I would say fair value is probably one of Tedenby, Josefson, Urbom +, Palmieri +

I would be very interested in something along the lines of Palmiere and Urbom for Schneider and ??? (a prospect maybe Connauton or a 2nd)
None of which the Devils are willing to pay. Schneider is just not worth that much to us.

Tedenby and Josefson appear to be entrenched in the top 6 for next season, and Palmieri plays very well with Kovalchuk. Urbom is an NHL ready defensive prospect, who brings some of the offensive talent that we desperately need on the blueline. None of those guys will be traded for Schneider. Maybe Palmieri, but Vancouver probably wouldn't take a package based around him.

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05-14-2011, 10:57 AM
  #77
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i will resume this:

Unless Brodeur announce he will retire or he is injured, NJ have no interest whatsoever in a goalie that is UFA eligible summer 2013.
They can just wait 2013 and sign Schneider or any of the good bunch of goalie available by then.


How would it look if they acquire Schneider:

Schneider play 15 games per season behind Brodeur between 2011-2013, then he become UFA and sign elsewhere? That doesn't worth to give asset for.
NJ would be in the exact same situation than Vancouver and would try to trade Schneider before he become UFA.


And forget that!!

Schneider haven't showed yet that he is a top goalie in the league. He is not even a starter. Please give him at least 200gp before labeling him as elite

He didn't show he was an elite goalie more than Ellis showed it by leading the league in saves % 2007-2008. He didnt showed he worth more than Reimer or Holtby.
Any one of you remember Brian Boucher being among the best golaie in the league in his rookies season? jim carey anyone? we have countless of example.

Every goalie can have a good streak, but no goalie ever maintained a 0.930% over their career. (well, even Schneider didn't so far!)

My prediction: We wont have to wait that long, Schneider stats will fall just next year.


Last edited by palindrom: 05-14-2011 at 12:17 PM.
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Old
05-14-2011, 11:11 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
One game he allowed 4 goals on 48 shots (.917 SV%), and the other game he allowed 3 goals on 35 shots (.914 SV%).

Pretty good against a top team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Mars View Post
we have another stat reader in the house! Vancouver was vastly outplayed in both those games, but won because of Schneider's fantastic goaltending.
4-1 loss to Edmonton .882 sv%
4-0 loss to Minny .840sv%

not saying that he didnt play great against sj, but a 2 game sample size isnt much to bragg about. Schneider's record against playoff teams isnt really that great.

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05-14-2011, 11:37 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
That didn't answer the question. Is Schneider worth more than Halak in a trade?
Yes, and solely due to the different circumstances surrounding the teams. Despite the jaw dropping performance by Halak in the playoffs last season. The reality was Montreal had two starting caliber goaltenders, both of whom intended to take the reins and were up for contractual renewal. Twenty nine other teams were acutely aware Montreal was in a dilemma and had to move one, thus the offers would be reduced.

Vancouver has the luxury of not being handcuffed into trading Schneider nor is he demanding a contract. There is virtually no reason they move him unless it is of immediate benefit to their roster. Coincidently in spite of the aforementioned about Halak, many still claim Montreal could have received more. Regardless, based on what was traded, undoubtedly is Schneider worth more.

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05-14-2011, 11:46 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Yes, and solely due to the different circumstances surrounding the teams. Despite the jaw dropping performance by Halak in the playoffs last season. The reality was Montreal had two starting caliber goaltenders, both of whom intended to take the reins and were up for contractual renewal. Twenty nine other teams were acutely aware Montreal was in a dilemma and had to move one, thus the offers would be reduced.

Vancouver has the luxury of not being handcuffed into trading Schneider nor is he demanding a contract. There is virtually no reason they move him unless it is of immediate benefit to their roster. Coincidently in spite of the aforementioned about Halak, many still claim Montreal could have received more. Regardless, based on what was traded, undoubtedly is Schneider worth more.
I have a Manon Rheaume rookie card and i have virtually no reason to sell it, unless someone give me 25 000$ for it.
My friend last years lost his job and was obliged to sell his Wayne Gretzky rookie card for 20 000$. Regardless, based on what was traded, undoubtedly is my Manon Rheaume worth more.

So basically if Schneider worth more because Vancouver have no reason to move him, He will end up staying with Vancouver until he is UFA in 2013. I wouldn't be surprised if it happen.

Would it be your strategy if you was the Canucks GM ? Or would you try to move him at the market price ?

There is no way that Schneider worth more than the value of Halak last summer.

Last summer Halak was 25yo with 101gp, Outstanding in 21 playoff game. Outstanding at the Olympic. WJC and WC experience. He did dominate at every level he had ever played.

This summer Schneider is 25yo with 35gp, No playoff, No Olympic, no WC, No experience as #01. But ok, he did well in the AHL and in the College.

The salary argument compensate a little bit in the favor of Schneider, but its not enough considering his contract expire in 2012.


Last edited by palindrom: 05-14-2011 at 12:13 PM.
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05-14-2011, 12:44 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Schneider haven't showed yet that he is a top goalie in the league. He is not even a starter. Please give him at least 200gp before labeling him as elite
Show me one post saying Schneider is elite/a top goalie.

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05-14-2011, 12:47 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
So basically if Schneider worth more because Vancouver have no reason to move him, He will end up staying with Vancouver until he is UFA in 2013. I wouldn't be surprised if it happen.

Would it be your strategy if you was the Canucks GM ? Or would you try to move him at the market price ?
Having Schneider around as the back-up goalie for the next two years is worth more to the franchise than some of the offers that have been thrown out there.

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05-14-2011, 12:54 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
i will resume this:



My prediction: We wont have to wait that long, Schneider stats will fall just next year.
Wow, a goalie that was taken in first round and then capped off a college career as the "best goalie in college hockey" before becoming the "best goalie in AHL" is going to crash and burn if given a chance in NHL?

Good to know that progression like that will come to a crashing halt. Will make sure any team I like will never trade for him or anyone with similar pedigre.

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05-14-2011, 12:57 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Wow, a goalie that was taken in first round and then capped off a college career as the "best goalie in college hockey" before becoming the "best goalie in AHL" is going to crash and burn if given a chance in NHL?

Good to know that progression like that will come to a crashing halt. Will make sure any team I like will never trade for him or anyone with similar pedigre.
Its a personnal prediction, come back to me in a year and we can talk about it. Deal ?

I can add that while Schneider was busy being ''Goalie of the Year in the AHL'', Mason was busy having a Nomination for the Vezina . Halak was seconding Price. And many other young goalie didnt had the chance to be the ''Goalie of the Year in the AHL'' since they was already playing in the major league.

Only 3 goalies who won this honor since 1983-1984 did become a clear #01 in the NHL. We could say that a AHL goalie of the year have statistically only 11% chance to become a #01 goalie in the NHL. If anything, this honor is an argument against Schneider. (the explanation to this is that elite goalie make the jump to the NHL without spending enough time in the AHL)


Last edited by palindrom: 05-14-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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05-14-2011, 12:58 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Having Schneider around as the back-up goalie for the next two years is worth more to the franchise than some of the offers that have been thrown out there.
I agree that keeping Schneider as a back-up is an option worth considering for Vancouver.

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05-14-2011, 01:04 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlappyMcGee View Post
but to say something to the effect of "We won't get a goalie as long as Marty is playing" seems really short-sighted to me. If the Devils got a young, quality goaltender now, first of all, he has the benefit of Marty's experience and expertise for at least a year, and we start the delicious seduction of a player to our team.
I agree that a young goalie could be an option for NJ, the problem is, Schneider is not really young anymore, he will be UFA Elligible in 2013.
Its reasonable to think that Marty wont retire until 2013.

Dont you think a team willing to give a shot as #01 right now to Schneider would offer more than a team wanting him as a backup and seduce him for the future? If brodeur is still there in 2013-2014, how seducing would it be for Schneider to re-sign there?


Last edited by palindrom: 05-14-2011 at 01:20 PM.
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05-14-2011, 01:10 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Show me one post saying Schneider is elite/a top goalie.
''After all, the Canucks took pride in having Luongo and Schneider share the Jennings Trophy this season. This award is only given to the goaltenders that play in at least 25 games for the team that gives up the least amount of goals in the regular season. So what’s the point of taking pride in having two elite goalies on your roster if you won’t even consider starting one of them when the other one isn’t playing well enough?''

Source: http://*******************/articles/...the-blackhawks

It took me 2 minutes to find one, want more?

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05-14-2011, 01:24 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Its a personnal prediction, come back to me in a year and we can talk about it. Dealt ?
I am not even sure I know how to respond to this. Good luck with the English classes!

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05-14-2011, 01:34 PM
  #89
palindrom
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Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
I am not even sure I know how to respond to this. Good luck with the English classes!
Ha ha, as a northern Quebecker, i learned English 2 years ago, while i was in Thailand, im doing my best ,

I never been skilled at learning new language. My writing is much better than my speaking, so you can imagine!

My friend laugh at me all the time


Last edited by palindrom: 05-14-2011 at 01:46 PM.
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05-14-2011, 01:35 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SlappyMcGee View Post
Wondering if there is any kind of deal that could be made between the two clubs surrounding Cory Schneider. Looking forward for the Devils, I don't think I count Johan Hedberg being the future of the franchise and Marty might play another two seasons but he'd look a lot better if he could play half a season. At the same time, a really great goaltender in Cory Schneider is not something that Vancouver needs to give away.

So while I expect it would be a nice package leaving New Jersey, I'm wondering if that package is doable, or if Canucks fans would rather hold on to him. I'm thinking 1st+One of the Devil's top Prospects.
As a Devils fan, I would not be interested in giving up a first round draft pick alone for Cory Schneider, let alone a first and a top prospect.

Why wouldn't we just sign Heddy for another year? Goaltending was not a problem for the Devils this year, coaching was.

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05-14-2011, 01:43 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
This is becoming as redundant as the Stasny to Toronto threads - IF and that's a huge IF a Schneider to NJ trade was made the 4th overall pick would not be included, even though I think the value is equal Devils fans have made it amply clear Merrill will not be involved.

From a Vancouver perspective Clarkson is a non-starter. He's a vastly overpriced plugger.

I'm sure when a deal is made it will look similar to the Halak deal. First round prospect + a mid round pick or mid-range prospect.

I would say fair value is probably one of Tedenby, Josefson, Urbom +, Palmieri +

I would be very interested in something along the lines of Palmiere and Urbom for Schneider and ??? (a prospect maybe Connauton or a 2nd)
NJ will wait until Marty retires before looking to replace him. Once he retires, they will have an additional $5.2 million of cap space to offer a bona fide starting goaltender.

I'd be very disappointed if Lou gave up anything of value for Cory Schneider. We don't need him.

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05-14-2011, 02:01 PM
  #92
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A lot of fellow Devils fans made some good points about Schneider's value, and he seems to be that potent combination of unmovable and not valuable enough to get a trade done. Also, my impression was that, looking at our prospects, the length of Kovalchuk's contract+ I'm sure a lengthy Parise contract, we were looking more forward than right now. Again, many people argued that Schneider wouldn't be that option looking forward, but watching him play, I think he's one of the best looking future goalies who is (hypothetically) movable.

That said, I hadn't seen this thread before and am sorry if, as some have mentioned, it is a common one. Thank you for at least entertaining my idea.

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05-14-2011, 02:18 PM
  #93
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It is a common one, but usually it's started by Canucks fans.

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05-14-2011, 08:23 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
It would take an overpayment. Your first this year and prospect would definately be that overpayment required. An alternative for my liking would be something around the lines of a 2nd and Clarkson for Schneider?



Yeah, we'll just pass on that.

(Clarkson deal I would do though).

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05-14-2011, 09:14 PM
  #95
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I agree on doing the Clarkson deal. Out of curiosity, how can one say that 4th overall pick + prospect would be the ideal proposal, but then say Clarkson + 2nd would be enough. Those two packages are sooooo different it's absurd.

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05-14-2011, 09:16 PM
  #96
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I swear I've seen this topic like 20-25 times this year. Here is how it usually goes.

Canucks argue that Schneider is the second coming of Christ in terms of goalie prospects, which I'd have to disagree with. However, I can see him being a top 10-15 goalie in the league down the road, and it's always hard to see someone you traded away owning you in the future.

NJ argues that goalies are weak market right now, however, you have to pay for a top prospect like Schneider. Everyone overvalues their own prospects, but i think Schneider and a good pick (1st or 2nd round pick) would be good value for Tedenby. Mostly because goalie prospects are generally higher risk.

However, NJ would not want to give up Tedenby, so that trade wouldn't work.

The most reasonable trade that would happen would be Schneider for a lower tier prospect (such as Urbom or Palmieri) or with another player for an upgrade on the top 9 (obviously not coming from NJ), such as Raymond and Schneider for Laich or Upshall (not exact value but the core trade is there).

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05-14-2011, 10:14 PM
  #97
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Unless someone is willing to pay above market value I'd prefer to keep Schneider. He's worth more in insurance than most of the offers.

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05-14-2011, 10:39 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgd31 View Post
A deal based around Palmieri. You guys need a big body to play with the Sedins correct?
Palmieri had 17 points I don't think he's first line material The Sedins have done "ok" without a big winger.

What about a deal involving Josefson? Do the Devils value him more or less than Tedenby?


Last edited by CASUAL KEV: 05-14-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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05-14-2011, 11:08 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPSLOCK REBEL View Post
Palmieri had 17 points I don't think he's first line material The Sedins have done "ok" without a big winger.

What about a deal involving Josefson? Do the Devils value him more or less than Tedenby?
Josefson will not be traded for a Goalie

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