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2011 Draft thread

View Poll Results: Who do you want the nukes to pick?
D. Musil D 11 25.58%
J. Brodin D 2 4.65%
R. Rackell RW 0 0%
T. Jurco RW 5 11.63%
D. Jaskin RW 9 20.93%
P. Danault LW 1 2.33%
S. Mayfield D 0 0%
T. Rattie LW 3 6.98%
J. Morrow D 4 9.30%
D. Catenacci C 4 9.30%
O. Klefbom D 3 6.98%
N. Shore RW 0 0%
M. St. Croix RW 1 2.33%
M. Lucia LW 0 0%
V. Rask C 0 0%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-14-2011, 09:15 AM
  #1
Scouter
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2011 Draft thread

I know the nucks are on a nice run right now, but this is HF after all and I like the draft a lot too, so who out of these guys do you want them to pick, who do you think they will pick, I really don't see them going for a top 6 centre or a #1 goalie, so wingers, D men and 3rd line centres it is, my favourite is probably Musil.


Last edited by Scouter: 05-14-2011 at 09:27 AM.
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Old
05-14-2011, 09:22 AM
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=857430

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Old
05-14-2011, 09:27 AM
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Yes, but this is a poll.

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Old
05-14-2011, 09:31 AM
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LickTheEnvelope
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If he falls i'd like Jaskin.

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05-14-2011, 09:49 AM
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If he falls i'd like Jaskin.
By what criteria to you have him as a faller, are you going by ISS who have him at 24, because THN draft preview have him at 30?

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05-14-2011, 09:54 AM
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By what criteria to you have him as a faller, are you going by ISS who have him at 24, because THN draft preview have him at 30?
I've seen Jaskin in mock drafts everywhere from 18th (highest) to 45th (lowest).

He's a hard one to judge as he was hurt for a good deal of this year early, but the guy reminds me very much of Marian Hossa. Great hands, great size (6'2, 200 lbs), natural goal scorer off the right wing where the Canucks have the least amount of depth in prospects.

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05-14-2011, 11:01 AM
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I have no idea what you're criteria for that list is considering some of those guys are thought to be long gone by the end of the first round (and some others aren't 1st round on any list i've seen).

Mckenzie's mid-season scout survey:
http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=36559

I vote for Nicklas Jensen.

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05-14-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy Dufresne View Post
I have no idea what you're criteria for that list is considering some of those guys are thought to be long gone by the end of the first round (and some others aren't 1st round on any list i've seen).

Mckenzie's mid-season scout survey:
http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=36559

I vote for Nicklas Jensen.
Well the bottom end of any 1st round is very hard to predict who will be there and who won't so I wen't with players who are ranked around there as the consensus have them, THN being one, and chose players I think that the nucks are thinking of, as in players that they tend to go for.

As for Jensen that's probably the lowest I have seen him, so that's why he's not there.

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05-14-2011, 11:37 AM
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Winroba
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Go for the Swedish guy that nobody has heard of except the Red Wings but they don't draft him because they pick another Swedish guy that's so obscure even we haven't heard of him.

Failing that, go for the Western Canadian power forward to play in a line with Schroeder in a few years so that we can put Hodgson with Archibald

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05-14-2011, 11:58 AM
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Go for the Swedish guy that nobody has heard of except the Red Wings but they don't draft him because they pick another Swedish guy that's so obscure even we haven't heard of him.

Failing that, go for the Western Canadian power forward to play in a line with Schroeder in a few years so that we can put Hodgson with Archibald
So Archibald is going to make the show is he.

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Old
05-14-2011, 12:10 PM
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All I ask is that the Canucks draft the next Wayne Gretzky or Bobby Orr.


Go with the best player available.
Preferably a power forward/big two-way forward or a defenseman.

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05-14-2011, 01:15 PM
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From best to "worst":

McNeill - not an amazing U18 and I could see him slipping somewhat for various reasons
Jaskin - didn't play at U20 WJC, didn't play big part of the season, Czech Republic isn't scouted as well
Jensen
Khokhlachev - will most likely rise way above where we pick, very late birthday, dynamic skillset
Scheifele
Jurco

With that said, most of those players could very well be gone by the time we pick (most are bound to be risers). Also, only listed guys I've actually seen. Mario Lucia sounds like an interesting player too but I haven't seen him play.

Saw Musil play a few times towards the end of the year and wasn't impressed. Probably not a guy I would draft with our 1st, especially considering we need high-end forwards more than depth defensemen.

Ideally? Find Yakupov's "real" birth certificate that says he was born on September 14th not October 6th.

2nd round is where things could get interesting. There's, IMO, going to be some real steals in the middle and at the end of that round. Almost wish we traded up to get another 2nd round pick or something.

Joe LaBate is a guy I'm interested in and have no idea where he'll go (most likely mid-to-late 2nd). There was a thread about him recently for those who are curious: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=911435 and

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Old
05-14-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
From best to "worst":

McNeill
Jaskin
Jensen
Khokhlachev
Scheifele
Jurco

With that said, most of those players could very well be gone by the time we pick (most are bound to be risers). Also, only listed guys I've actually seen.

Saw Musil play a few times towards the end of the year and wasn't impressed. Probably not a guy I would draft with our 1st, especially considering we need high-end forwards more than depth defensemen.

Ideally? Find Yakupov's "real" birth certificate that says he was born on September 14th not October 6th.

2nd round is where things could get interesting. There's, IMO, going to be some real steals in the middle and at the end of that round. Almost wish we traded up to get another 2nd round pick or something.

Joe LaBate is a guy I'm interested in and have no idea where he'll go (most likely mid-to-late 2nd). There was a thread about him recently for those who are curious: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=911435 and
I don't think he will be a depth D man in the NHL, a top pairing guy at best, top 4 at worst who spends a lot of time killing penalties.

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05-14-2011, 01:21 PM
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I don't think he will be a depth D man in the NHL, a top pairing guy at best, top 4 at worst who spends a lot of time killing penalties.
#3 or #4 at best and the latest scouting reports agree. Not enough hockey sense, bad first pass, and lack of creativity will never allow him to become a #1 or #2 D. Not to mention he's afraid to use his size.

Don't like picking guys that fall this much (from Top 5 to 25-30 or worse) throughout their draft year.

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05-14-2011, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
#3 or #4 at best and the latest scouting reports agree. Not enough hockey sense, bad first pass, and lack of creativity will never allow him to become a #1 or #2 D. Not to mention he's afraid to use his size.
From what I've read his hockey sense and passing are fine, it's his skating that is the issue, I've read he's quite physical, and he doesn't need to be creative with the type of game he plays, he's not a flashy offensive type anyway.

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05-14-2011, 01:36 PM
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From what I've read his hockey sense and passing are fine, it's his skating that is the issue, I've read he's quite physical, and he doesn't need to be creative with the type of game he plays, he's not a flashy offensive type anyway.
I'll just go with what thefeebster posted since I'm too lazy to find stuff myself. I've also actually watched him.

Quote:
According to one NHL scout, he has the talent, but just doesn't seem to play with the kind of intensity, passion or sense of urgency you look for. "He has the look of a guy who things have come pretty easy to him most of his life and maybe they have," the scout said. "But, he makes some questionable decisions and just hasn't taken control of games like the player we saw last year and before. He's capable of more, but I just haven't seen it from him enough." Musil has a big, booming shot that hurts, but his windup is excessive and release extended, allowing players to clog shooting lanes or rush him altogether. His hockey sense is just OK- he doesn't seem to sense the openings and exploit them and one wonders how well he sees the ice or reads the play. Defensively, he's solid- he uses his mobility and size to leverage guys away from the net and keep forwards to the outside.
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"Musil... I am not a big time Musil fan. I think the big thing with him, he’ll get drafted based of genetics and his size. In time when he betters his skating and can get to pucks faster, he could end up being a safe 5/6 guy somewhere. Frankly, I wish him all the best... as a character guy I know that he’s well liked by his teammates but when I see him on the ice and I watch him play... he’s not very bright. He’s not smart enough defensively."
Quote:
David Musil, D- After watching him a bit in this tourney, we can see why Musil's stock has fallen off from where it was coming into 2010-11. He does a lot of nice things, but isn't the kind of dominant force on the back line that justifies taking him in the top-10 or even top-15. The blood lines are excellent, but at the end of the day, he's skating is good, not great. His shot is OK and while he can be a physical player willing to take the body, he tends to be inconsistent in his approach. In our view, he's spent a little too much time trying to play the puck instead of using his natural size and strength to blow guys off it. Musil is another guy who a team will take early enough (20-30?) because they are convinced that his flaws are minor and can be tweaked with relative ease. However, it's disappointing that a player with as much potential as he showed last season just kind of went through the motions and didn't take that expected next step.
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Once billed as a lottery pick, Musil has seen his stock progressively slide this season as his game hasn’t quite taken that next step forward from a stellar rookie season a year ago. He’s a big guy who is very strong and positionally sound defensively. Can be an effective puck mover, but doesn’t play an offensive oriented game. He’s still a pretty safe pick and projects well as a second pairing type 3/4 guy, but he doesn’t quite have the high-end upside of some of the guys in front of him.
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This year hasn’t started the way some had hoped for Musil. While he had been looked upon as a potential lotto pick to start the season, Musil has looked a little slow moving around the ice this year and he hasn’t developed his offensive game as much as needed to be a lotto pick. He is still very good defensively, but not as physical as needed for a purely defensive player. It also doesn’t help that Musil was recently diagnosed with a broken foot from blocking a shot and will miss the World Juniors, potentially dropping his stock even further. Musil is still looking like a 1st round pick at this point, but he may not be the prospect some thought he would be.
Guys that fall this much on draft year, you have to wonder if they are close reaching their ceiling because for every 1 of them that will bounce back there's 10 that won't.

Also, when you have even one scout questioning somebody's hockey sense alarm bells should be going off.


Last edited by Tiranis: 05-14-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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Old
05-14-2011, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I'll just go with what thefeebster posted since I'm too lazy to find stuff myself. I've also actually watched him.











Guys that fall this much on draft year, you have to wonder if they are close reaching their ceiling because for every 1 of them that will bounce back there's 10 that won't.

Also, when you have even one scout questioning somebody's hockey sense alarm bells should be going off.

Most scouts I've read have Musil as either the #1, #2 or #3 D man in the dub.


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05-16-2011, 04:06 PM
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bump

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Old
05-16-2011, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Guys that fall this much on draft year, you have to wonder if they are close reaching their ceiling because for every 1 of them that will bounce back there's 10 that won't.
Well, Fowler fell pretty badly and we know how that turned out. Scout groupthink can get a little out of control.

That said, the guy that Musil's development is starting to remind me of is Alex Plante. At 15-16, well past where a defenceman's supposed to be at that age, both physically and mentally. But a year or two later, the gap's narrowing rapidly as everybody else catches up and they level off. Not a good sign, and Plante's post-junior development doesn't make me optimistic about Musil.

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05-16-2011, 05:12 PM
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From that list Joe Morrow, although if Matt Puempel is available to us I'd say draft him!

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Old
05-16-2011, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
Well, Fowler fell pretty badly and we know how that turned out. Scout groupthink can get a little out of control.
I was actually very careful with how I worded that. I said guys that fall on "draft year" and that's exactly what I meant. Players falling on draft day are fine — sometimes the concern is justified, sometimes it's not, but it's completely different than players falling from Top 5 during the course of the year. A "good" recent example is John MacFarland.

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05-16-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I was actually very careful with how I worded that. I said guys that fall on "draft year" and that's exactly what I meant. Players falling on draft day are fine sometimes the concern is justified, sometimes it's not, but it's completely different than players falling from Top 5 during the course of the year. A "good" recent example is John MacFarland.
Fowler fell considerably during the year, too. He was, at worst, third and close to the top two at the start of the year, still third but falling by the WJC, then a very shaky #5 by the end of the year - guys like Tarasenko and Gormley were popping up ahead of him on reputable lists. I remember getting the feeling as far back as midwinter that he was sliding for reasons the scouting community couldn't explain very well. And then on draft day paranoid and shortsighted GM's ran with the downward momentum to a ridiculous extreme. Anyhow, the pre-draft fall was what I meant by scouting groupthink, not the follow-on stupidity from Sather & co. during the actual draft.

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05-16-2011, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
Fowler fell considerably during the year, too. He was, at worst, third and close to the top two at the start of the year, still third but falling by the WJC, then a very shaky #5 by the end of the year - guys like Tarasenko and Gormley were popping up ahead of him on reputable lists. I remember getting the feeling as far back as midwinter that he was sliding for reasons the scouting community couldn't explain very well. And then on draft day paranoid and shortsighted GM's ran with the downward momentum to a ridiculous extreme. Anyhow, the pre-draft fall was what I meant by scouting groupthink, not the follow-on stupidity from Sather & co. during the actual draft.
Yeah, another highly touted guy before his draft year falls in his draft year because I guess scouts started to really pick apart his game and find things that they did not like and focusing on them instead of what they liked about him in the 1st place because they saw him too much.

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05-16-2011, 10:03 PM
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I think my example of McFarland makes it pretty clear I'm talking about guys that fall more than a few spots. Going from Top 3 to being consensus Top 10 is hardly a big deal. Going from being Top 5 (with a chance at #1) to being Top 30 (and possibly worse) is a big deal.

Being ranked in the Top 10, regardless of if you were #1 to start the year or #100 is a big deal and a great achievement.


Last edited by Tiranis: 05-16-2011 at 10:08 PM.
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Old
05-16-2011, 10:08 PM
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I think my example of McFarland makes it pretty clear I'm talking about guys that fall more than a few spots. Going from Top 3 to being consensus Top 10 is hardly a big deal. Going from being Top 5 (with a chance at #1) to being Top 30 (and possibly worse) is a big deal.
Fair enough. Bottom line, we don't want Musil.

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