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Eller shoulder surgery; out 4-6 months

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05-15-2011, 06:51 PM
  #126
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What is it with this team and injuries?

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05-15-2011, 10:33 PM
  #127
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What is it with this team and injuries?
queue the "WE ARE TOO SMALL" whines

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05-15-2011, 11:15 PM
  #128
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Like I said: next season, it's the forwards' turn.

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05-16-2011, 07:40 AM
  #129
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I've said it numerous times before. Even if I'm nothing more than a simply internet blogger, I disagree with anybody saying we could have had more for Halak than what we got. There is a multitude of examples that show how weak the market was for goalies.
But more so than that, when you look at what the assets exchanged, it points even more towards being a good trade. Halak was a RFA, which means any team making him an offer would have needed to give us a compensation. If we look at the deal St-Louis signed him at, we would have gotten a 1st and 3rd round pick in return, and because people on HF love draft pick and cap space more than the actual game of hockey, they would have been very satisfied with that compensation. Well, Eller and Schultz are respectively 1st and 3rd round picks.

At the worse, this trade was fair. With all their offensive injuries this year, St-Louis could have used Eller.



Flyers didn't have a problem finding a great goalie in Bobrovsky.
Laviolette played with fire and flat out lost it when he decided to scratch him only to put a career back up/AHLer goalie, that hadn't played in 2011 yet, in nets..
Deciding to go with Boucher and Leighton instead of Bobrovsky, and then opting to start him in Game 4 vs Boston really made me wonder what the heck Laviolette was thinking.
He should have stuck with Bobrovsky all the way through. Rookies need their share of experience.
I don't think Philly is looking for a goalie, other than maybe a back up. They would be stupid to let Bobrovsky go.


It's not about ruining the player, it's about what he has to gain from it. Would Plekanec benefit anything from going to play in the AHL for a year?? Of course not.
Would you improve anything from playing hockey versus 10 year old kids? Of course not.

In order to improve, you need to play versus opponents that will make you develop onto a higher level. I don't think Eller has much to gain from playing a season in the AHL. I can see him go through a conditioning stint like many other players do after big injuries, but I doubt he'll spend a significant amount of time in the AHL. I think he's got a lot more to gain from playing at the NHL level, than he does at the AHL.
I'm not worried about confidence with this kid, I think he's shown great things with us throughout the year, and even more so in the POs.

I'm not worried about Eller, I expect him to spend some time for conditioning in the AHL if he's still injured during camp, but quickly come back up to the NHL level.
Great Post

I agreed with all of it

The Idea that Halak could have been had for more is definately a myth.
Goalies are thrown around this league for next to nothing, on a regular basis. Look how much respect Niemi was rewarded last year for bringing his team to the Stanley Cup? Or even the Career AHL'er/Back up in Leighton?

What is rare in the NHL in goal is what we currently HAVE. A franchise goalie, and even then, we are starting to see that we cannot even expect that they will be on top year in, year out. Look at the controversy in Vancouver (they talked all year about being strapped down by Roberto Luongo's 6.5 - 7.0 million dollar contract, like it's a nuisance), or Thomas (2 years ago, Thomas had a Vezina calibre season, Last year he was a stick in the mud, and being outcast by Tukka Rask. This year he's vezina calibre all over again.
Cam Ward, who many in the industry feel is top 3 goalie in the league, has put many up and down seasons together, so has MA Fleury.
This all being said, When you have a goalie, you dont typically get rid of them, but unless they are somewhat proven somehow, they are worth NOTHING.
Halak, before his miraculous run, as Dudley said, was NOT worth Cormier. He hung up and never called Gauthier again about the subject. He was not far off.
Furthermore the odds you bring up make it even more dwindling at best; RFA no contract, great 1/2 season makes it hard to guage contract value, and before anyone says it I KNOW Halak was better for much longer, the fact is he was a relative unknown to the league until the stretch run. Proof of this fact, is when Bobby Clarke said near the trade deadline last year, that the Habs have no goalie better than theirs, while history will prove him to be nefariously wrong, In context to time, his perception was not far off from the rest of the NHL. The only thing holding up was Carey's blue chip qualities, but he was more or less a sieve for the better part of a year when that comment was made, and Halak still hadnt wrested the starting job completely by that point.

Finally, Lars Eller should not be going backwards now. If there was any time to start him off as an AHL'er it would have been last year.
By the end of the season, IMO he was definately playing some great hockey up the middle, and he provides some much needed size up the middle to go along with burgeoning talent level that is unmatched by the center prospect pool.
He was brought about VERY slowly last year.
I do know this though, Eller is definately a better player than his stats indicate. It's hard to guage offensive capability when he averaged 8-10 minutes a night for about 50 games of the year.
When given an extended chance, on a role with this squad, by the end of the year... He played fantastic. He definately proved to me without a doubt that he needs to have his role with this organization expanded, and has earned this with his improved play.
He IMO was the second most improved player, who was a regular roster member through out the year, behind Subban. He is SHOWING that he is learning the game with results that are visible on the ice!

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05-16-2011, 11:02 AM
  #130
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I'd even argue he grew more as a player than Subban did. With Eller there were a lot more question marks. With Subban he had the tools all along and he showed that he had them all along.

With Eller it was more flashes of brilliance leading up to showing that he had the tools all along. Subban since pretty much day 1 has been as obvious a budding superstar as any.

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05-16-2011, 11:30 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I'd even argue he grew more as a player than Subban did. With Eller there were a lot more question marks. With Subban he had the tools all along and he showed that he had them all along.

With Eller it was more flashes of brilliance leading up to showing that he had the tools all along. Subban since pretty much day 1 has been as obvious a budding superstar as any.
All great points and very valid for sure

All that being said, the only honest to gawd thing that really sucks is that he's not going to be doing a whole lot of offseason upper body training, Im sure he'll still come in more improved, but I would still like to see him hovering much closer to 50% in the faceoffs. Who knows though, maybe the blown shoulder impacted his faceoff ability?

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05-16-2011, 12:13 PM
  #132
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All great points and very valid for sure

All that being said, the only honest to gawd thing that really sucks is that he's not going to be doing a whole lot of offseason upper body training, Im sure he'll still come in more improved, but I would still like to see him hovering much closer to 50% in the faceoffs. Who knows though, maybe the blown shoulder impacted his faceoff ability?
It probably did, but that shoulder injury only came in at the end. I'm one of eller's biggest fans, but he really, really needs to get better at faceoffs, and I think it will come with time.

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05-16-2011, 12:40 PM
  #133
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Yeah it really is a shame but I don't see it stunting his development unless we're talking about a couple weeks tops. The way I see it is talented players are meant to be who they are and the only kind of injury that is going to stop/delay their progression is a life threatening one.

In organized sports now a days the trainers are a lot smarter than they were probably like 30 years ago. I have no doubt he and Pacioretty will be at least at their current form by puck drop. (Current meaning when they were healthy)

I think this might not be Eller's year anyways, I think the year he'll really start to become dominant is his 3rd season anyways. He'll continue improving and he'll have plenty of time to bulk up. The org isn't just going to give up on this kid after 1 season, an injury and then another season. I see them giving this kid 4-5 years even. I just think it'll take him about 3 years with us to become the player he's going to become.

Whenever dealing with sizable players and especially European players, the learning curve is a bit bigger. He already had a decent year in the AHL, came to the NHL, didn't put up big numbers but played well and go the confidence of his coaches, a coach who is hard to please too.

Then he gets an injury and keeps playing for his teams sake. I really doubt this is the kind of player JM, PG and company are going to give up on. I know I see he's going to have a bright future in the NHL already, so I don't doubt guys like JM and PG who he plays for and a GM who went after him think otherwise.

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05-16-2011, 02:55 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
What is it with this team and injuries?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
queue the "WE ARE TOO SMALL" whines
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Like I said: next season, it's the forwards' turn.
The answer is there are no players on our team that can dish out what our players are getting.Tinordi,Emelin,Stejskal aren't going to be able to change that scenario for a couple more seasons.Siemens or Oleksiak are two players available this year and hopefully the Habs get one of them.They may be three years away but at least we know they will be on the Habs, in the meantime stopgaps will have to suffice.At least Gauthier isn't mortgaging the future for an enforcer like Laraque at $1,500,000 a season.Georges was a real eyesore in his time with the Habs.White and Schultz will have their hands full until reinforcements arrive.When our new breed of defencemen arrive so will our Stanley Cup aspirations.

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Old
05-16-2011, 04:30 PM
  #135
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Dr. Recchi would probably say the same as my old ninjutsu instructor: "It's cool. Punch it out, man!"

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Old
05-16-2011, 04:50 PM
  #136
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I would like to see Montreal take the lead with a new design of spring-loaded boards, with a lot more give at the top, which could alleviate a lot of the stress on players shoulders, necks and heads, and cut down on these utterly needless injuries. And keep the top players playing. The springs could be tuned in a manner that entails no change in the response to a moving puck, but optimized to respond when a 200-pound player crashes into a board. Ice-level seats would need to be moved back no more than a foot.

If this is proven to cut down on shoulder injuries, whiplash and concussions, the Montreal organization could then help yank the NHL ostrich's head out of the sand, and bring its response to injuries to the 21st century.

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Old
05-16-2011, 05:11 PM
  #137
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Use Google and NHL.com. They have box scores archived for every game since the lockout. If a player gets called for diving it will appear (on several different pages) under "(player's name) diving".

Chara has 5 diving penalties since the lockout, Spacek 1 and Hamrlik 0.

Chara has 3 of those with the Bruins, Spacek and Hamrlik 0 with the Habs.

And those numbers don't even count this gem, for which he didn't receive a penalty:
This tidbit of info will be so fun to use!

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05-16-2011, 05:16 PM
  #138
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And those numbers don't even count this gem, for which he didn't receive a penalty:

THAT is ****ing hilarious. Wow. I'm not even sure Jokinen even hit his ankle. It looked like he hit the ice, and sorta grazed the boot of his skate.

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Old
05-16-2011, 06:20 PM
  #139
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Eller's value will probably rise over the years. I'm not so sure that Halak's will. Besides, what would the Habs do with Halak as well as Price except unintentionally breed one malcontent if not two.

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Old
05-24-2011, 05:07 PM
  #140
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As per Tony Marinaro twitter

TonyMarinaro Tony Marinaro
HABS:On Monday,May 09 Josh Gorges & Andrei Markov met with their surgeon in Atlanta. Both got clean bill of health. Their ACL & MCL are 100%

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05-24-2011, 05:12 PM
  #141
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As per Tony Marinaro twitter

TonyMarinaro Tony Marinaro
HABS:On Monday,May 09 Josh Gorges & Andrei Markov met with their surgeon in Atlanta. Both got clean bill of health. Their ACL & MCL are 100%
good news. thanks for the update

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05-24-2011, 05:15 PM
  #142
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As per Tony Marinaro twitter

TonyMarinaro Tony Marinaro
HABS:On Monday,May 09 Josh Gorges & Andrei Markov met with their surgeon in Atlanta. Both got clean bill of health. Their ACL & MCL are 100%
meh, markov is mr.glass and will be broken next season too.

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05-24-2011, 05:31 PM
  #143
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meh, markov is mr.glass and will be broken next season too.
Your life must be boring.

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Old
05-24-2011, 05:54 PM
  #144
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meh, markov is mr.glass and will be broken next season too.
Try not to be so pessimistic Markov has had surgery that should make his knee like new. With Yemelin taking up Komisarek's role in the past,Markov will have more time to make plays.Gorges played his entire pro career on a bum knee and should be aces this season.The Habs have one of the best defensive teams in the NHL and finally will have some young legs with muscle on the backend.Subban,Yemelin,Wisniewski,and Gorges with Gill and Hamrlik.That's assuming Weber and Spacek are packaged to Detroit,with Diaz replacing Weber the following season.How's that for optimism?

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05-24-2011, 05:59 PM
  #145
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Try not to be so pessimistic Markov has had surgery that should make his knee like new. With Yemelin taking up Komisarek's role in the past,Markov will have more time to make plays.Gorges played his entire pro career on a bum knee and should be aces this season.The Habs have one of the best defensive teams in the NHL and finally will have some young legs with muscle on the backend.Subban,Yemelin,Wisniewski,and Gorges with Gill and Hamrlik.That's assuming Weber and Spacek are packaged to Detroit,with Diaz replacing Weber the following season.How's that for optimism?
My personal optimism involves Weber in Habs' short & long term plans. I feel he gets written off way too quickly by a lot of Habs fans.

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05-24-2011, 06:06 PM
  #146
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My personal optimism involves Weber in Habs' short & long term plans. I feel he gets written off way too quickly by a lot of Habs fans.
Agreed. People seem to think that what you see is what you get with Weber and that he can't better. Personally i've seen a steady growth with this player, and i hope management gives him a bigger role with the team this year.

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05-24-2011, 06:12 PM
  #147
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My personal optimism involves Weber in Habs' short & long term plans. I feel he gets written off way too quickly by a lot of Habs fans.
I'm with you on this one. The guy as 4 pts including 3 goals and +1 in 6 games in the playoffs. I find that interesting from a young guy with little experience.

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05-24-2011, 07:01 PM
  #148
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My personal optimism involves Weber in Habs' short & long term plans. I feel he gets written off way too quickly by a lot of Habs fans.
He's such good trade bait though. I wouldn't throw him under the bus, but if the right trade can be arranged, I wouldn't flip.

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05-24-2011, 07:18 PM
  #149
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He's such good trade bait though. I wouldn't throw him under the bus, but if the right trade can be arranged, I wouldn't flip.
Neither would I, but I'm not convinced Habs would get full value for him at this point.

To me he's worth a late 1st or at the very least an early 2nd rounder. I'm pretty sure most teams don't value him as much, which is why I have no problem at all hanging on to him.

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05-24-2011, 07:20 PM
  #150
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He's such good trade bait though. I wouldn't throw him under the bus, but if the right trade can be arranged, I wouldn't flip.
Its strange. Right handed puckmoving defensemen are such a rare commodity that most teams over pay to aquire them (see the return that Wideman has gotten in his trades). Certainly the Habs didn't have any for a long period of time. Now the organisation is flush with them.

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