HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Buffalo - Colorado

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-14-2011, 06:25 PM
  #51
ct2111
Registered User
 
ct2111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,901
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikJohnson6 View Post
I'm pretty sure that most Avs fans agree that this deal is lopsided.

Eh, that's what I meant. As in he is the only one (even including Avs fans).

ct2111 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 06:26 PM
  #52
Seikalym
Registered User
 
Seikalym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington DC
Country: Palestine
Posts: 351
vCash: 500
Awful deal for the Sabres. I wouldn't even do Myers for Stastny straight up if I was Regier.

Seikalym is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 06:29 PM
  #53
Pyke*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto / Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
No GM (unless you're Millbury) is stupid enough to give up that much for Stastny. Or for that matter Roy. Or any comparable center.

You're talking about Myers like he's a prospect with "potential" when in reality he's already their #1 d-man and future of their D. He's already their #1 d-man with the potential to be a franchise d-man.

That deal doesn't make the Sabres a better team. Not now, not in the future. You're the only one, including Avs fans, thinking that deal isn't lopsided.
Derek Roy (5'9/185lbs, soaking wet with equipment on) is not equivalent to Paul Stastny (6'0/205lbs).

As to Myers, he had 37 points and was Even on the season. In the playoffs, he had 6 points and managed to be -4. I'm not sure that makes him a #1 d-man ready to be a "potential franchise d-man".

For fun, here are some other young d-men:
John Carlson - 37 points +21
Erik Karlsson - 45 points -30
P.K. Subban - 38 points -8
Kevin Shattenkirk - 43 points -4
Victor Hedman - 26 points +3
Drew Doughty - 40 points +13
Alex Pietrangelo - 43 points +18

Myers, if he plays the way he did as a rookie, is better than some of these. The way he played last season? None of them. There's no doubt he has size (unlike Shattenkirk/Karlsson), but it's uncertain he'll put together the entire package.

If he does, I agree he could be a franchise d-man. Or he could be Hal Gill.

Pyke* is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 06:38 PM
  #54
Pyke*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto / Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
And the Avs would be getting back a franchise defenseman with a skillset (size, speed, offensive instincts) that isn't often found plus two highly-ranked prospects.

I doubt you view Duchene as "potential" after his rookie season so why are you typecasting Myers as such? He and Duchene already transcended past the "potential" part after Myers won the Calder and Duchene finished runner-up. Admittedly, Myers didn't have as impressive a sophomore season as his rookie year but he did nothing to dissuade people from calling him a star player.

The only time any team accepts the losing end of a lopsided deal and becomes desperate to make any kind of trade - and the Sabres, as much as they need an upgrade at center, aren't desperate enough to give up a building block like Myers.
It depends on how you're asking to consider Duchene. If you're saying we're trading Duchene for someone like Suter or Weber, who are established top pairing defenders, then yes, it's potential.

You also need to keep in mind a couple things:
(1) Duchene's point totals increased from 2009-2010 (57) to 2010-2011 (67).
(2) Myers' point totals decreased from 2009-2010 (48) to 2010-2011 (37).
(3) Myers' has a size advantage, which means that he was able to play at an earlier age. Most people wouldn't take someone like Jordan Staal (6'4 / 220 lb C) over someone like Patrick Kane (5'10 / 175 lb), but at the same time - Staal's 29 goal campaign as a *rookie* outpaces almost all of Kane's goal totals (he did have one 30 goal campaign last year).

It's difficult to compare large players to average sized ones, especially when you're dealing with prospects who do not have mens body's yet. Myers' totals might be inflated because he could transition sooner. I agree completely that if he's a 50 point all around defender he may well be a franchise D-Man. The problem is there's not enough evidence of this yet to say, "That's what he is".

People can pretend otherwise all they'd like, but the statements I've made are entirely logically consistent.

Pyke* is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 06:41 PM
  #55
ct2111
Registered User
 
ct2111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,901
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Derek Roy (5'9/185lbs, soaking wet with equipment on) is not equivalent to Paul Stastny (6'0/205lbs).
So basically what defines a hockey player is his size. Great, gimme Erik Karlsson for Mike Weber then.

Quote:
As to Myers, he had 37 points and was Even on the season. In the playoffs, he had 6 points and managed to be -4. I'm not sure that makes him a #1 d-man ready to be a "potential franchise d-man".

For fun, here are some other young d-men:
John Carlson - 37 points +21
Erik Karlsson - 45 points -30
P.K. Subban - 38 points -8
Kevin Shattenkirk - 43 points -4
Victor Hedman - 26 points +3
Drew Doughty - 40 points +13
Alex Pietrangelo - 43 points +18
For fun, how about you watch some games, instead of throwing around stats from two-way-dman to PMD? That -30 on Karlsson looks mightly great and yet no one would come to the conclusion that he could end up as Marc-Andre Bergeron.

Of those d-men only Carlson, Subban, Doughty, Hedman and Pietrangelo are comparable. And they all have franchise d-man potential.

And since you value size so much, Myers must be the best of all them...

Quote:
Myers, if he plays the way he did as a rookie, is better than some of these. The way he played last season? None of them. There's no doubt he has size (unlike Shattenkirk/Karlsson), but it's uncertain he'll put together the entire package.
Wrong, Myers was defensively a lot better than in his rookie year. Only someone who rarely watches him or doesn't watch him at all would come to that conclusion.

Quote:
If he does, I agree he could be a franchise d-man. Or he could be Hal Gill.
Well, I'm done on this topic. Comparing Myers with Gill shows that you have no clue whatsoever.

ct2111 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 06:48 PM
  #56
Pyke*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto / Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
So basically what defines a hockey player is his size. Great, gimme Erik Karlsson for Mike Weber then.
There's a dramatic difference between a #1 Center and a top pairing defender. Karlsson's size is a potential problem. We both know that. However, Karlsson is still 6'0. He's undersized, but he's not any smaller than Duncan Keith, who managed to win the Norris. Of course, would either potentially be better if they were 6'4? Sure. There is an infinite difference between 6'0 and 5'9, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
For fun, how about you watch some games, instead of throwing around stats from two-way-dman to PMD? That -30 on Karlsson looks mightly great and yet no one would come to the conclusion that he could end up as Marc-Andre Bergeron.
Karlsson played on a bad team. It killed his +/-. He also had some stretches where he was bad. On the other hand, given his size, he shouldn't be in the league at all. He's two years ahead of Duncan Keith on the development curve. Keith won the Norris at 27. They're very similar players, skating wise and abilities wise. I've said before, and I will say again, if Karlsson continues his current trend, he will win the Norris by 25.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
Of those d-men only Carlson, Subban, Doughty, Hedman and Pietrangelo are comparable. And they all have franchise d-man potential.
It depends on how you mean "comparable". Hedman is the only one of that bunch with the same size, but Doughty is far and away the best of that class. Beyond that, it really depends. Subban is built like a tank (6'3/220lbs), and was pretty good. We'll see what happens with the bunch.

I agree with you that Myers has the POTENTIAL (frame wise) to be a fear some defender, but it's his combination of size and skating that creates that potential - not some vast hidden repository of skill. Maybe he becomes the Chara of this generation - who in and of himself sucked for much of his 20s. Or maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
Wrong, Myers was defensively a lot better than in his rookie year. Only someone who rarely watches him or doesn't watch him at all would to that conclusion.
I don't watch every Sabres game. I do have things to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
Well, I'm done on this topic. Comparing Myers with Gill shows that you have no clue whatsoever.
I didn't compare him with Gill. I simply said it was entirely possible he could be a player who's ability to play is derived merely from his size as opposed to his skillset.

Pyke* is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:19 PM
  #57
DatsyukOwns
Hero
 
DatsyukOwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,149
vCash: 500
To much from buffalo.

DatsyukOwns is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:22 PM
  #58
captaincrunch89
Registered User
 
captaincrunch89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: North Tonawanda
Posts: 558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post



I don't watch every Sabres game. I do have things to do.
Ok then maybe you shouldn't judge his overall game when you don't see enough of it to have a legitimate opinion.

captaincrunch89 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:28 PM
  #59
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Possibly not. Honestly, I rather Colorado keep Stastny, but someone in another thread was indicating Buffalo was trying hard to land him at the trade deadline.

Colorado has center depth right now - and really no reason to trade him. I assume (as a premise of this deal), that Buffalo is trying to land him, Colorado therefore asks for pieces that help address organizational deficiencies (namely, defense, wing, goal).

There's also a certain truth to the fact that none of the components of the deal coming to Colorado are proven value, which somewhat mitigates their worth (albeit, not completely).
trade proposals including Tyler Myers should immediately be closed

Jame is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:31 PM
  #60
msm29
Was htsportplaya
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,962
vCash: 500
Not a chance. Myers has the tools to be a generational defenseman. Not that he will be, but he could be.

You don't give that up unless you're getting a bonafide franchise superstar.

I wouldn't do Myers for Statsny straight up, let alone throw in Kassian, Enroth and a pick.

No times a gazillion.

msm29 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:33 PM
  #61
enrothorne
A DJ saved my life
 
enrothorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Downtown Buffalo
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,511
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to enrothorne
AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA...

Thanks for the laugh.

enrothorne is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:37 PM
  #62
Coles19
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 56
vCash: 500
Tyler Myers is not going anywhere. Enroth is going to be the backup for Miller that Buffalo have been missing since we traded away Marty Biron. He could be had but certainly not in that deal. Kassian is certainly expendable and by no means is a proven Sabre of the future. If the Sabres were to make an offer for Statsny it would probably look something like Butler/Pysk, Kassian, 1st & 2nd.

Coles19 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:40 PM
  #63
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
It depends on how you're asking to consider Duchene. If you're saying we're trading Duchene for someone like Suter or Weber, who are established top pairing defenders, then yes, it's potential.

You also need to keep in mind a couple things:
(1) Duchene's point totals increased from 2009-2010 (57) to 2010-2011 (67).
(2) Myers' point totals decreased from 2009-2010 (48) to 2010-2011 (37).
(3) Myers' has a size advantage, which means that he was able to play at an earlier age. Most people wouldn't take someone like Jordan Staal (6'4 / 220 lb C) over someone like Patrick Kane (5'10 / 175 lb), but at the same time - Staal's 29 goal campaign as a *rookie* outpaces almost all of Kane's goal totals (he did have one 30 goal campaign last year).

It's difficult to compare large players to average sized ones, especially when you're dealing with prospects who do not have mens body's yet. Myers' totals might be inflated because he could transition sooner. I agree completely that if he's a 50 point all around defender he may well be a franchise D-Man. The problem is there's not enough evidence of this yet to say, "That's what he is".

People can pretend otherwise all they'd like, but the statements I've made are entirely logically consistent.
thanks i needed a good

Jame is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:41 PM
  #64
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
If he does, I agree he could be a franchise d-man. Or he could be Hal Gill.
nice comparison...

Jame is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:53 PM
  #65
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,573
vCash: 500
Myers is the only untouchable player in Buffalo. Especially not for a 1b center.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 07:58 PM
  #66
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
I didn't compare him with Gill. I simply said it was entirely possible he could be a player who's ability to play is derived merely from his size as opposed to his skillset.
Myers can probably skate backwards faster than Gill can forwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Myers is the only untouchable player in Buffalo. Especially not for a 1b center.
I agree that Myers should be untouchable but Stastny isn't a 1b centre.

wej20 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:05 PM
  #67
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,573
vCash: 500
I mean, he's a first line center slightly more than guys like Roy and Ribeiro are, but there's still a gap between him and the top tier of centers in the league.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:08 PM
  #68
VilleLeino
Registered User
 
VilleLeino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 667
vCash: 500

VilleLeino is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:34 PM
  #69
thefifagod
I'm The Survivor
 
thefifagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,043
vCash: 500
As almost everyone has said, this is terrible for the Sabres. The attempt to justify this proposal with ludicrous comments is great for a laugh.

thefifagod is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:43 PM
  #70
Layne Staley
The Future
 
Layne Staley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,447
vCash: 500
This is terrible.I don't do Myers for Stastny let alone Kassian,Enroth+...absolutely brutal.


Congrats, you made the worst proposal in HF history.

Layne Staley is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:44 PM
  #71
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Myers>Stastny

/thread

birddog* is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:45 PM
  #72
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 11,306
vCash: 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikJohnson6 View Post
I'm pretty sure that most Avs fans agree that this deal is lopsided.

That's what he said...

EDIT: Damn, was reading the end of the last page when I made this reply, not knowing all of the posts in between. Awful post by me.


Last edited by shadow1: 05-14-2011 at 08:57 PM.
shadow1 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:55 PM
  #73
DallasStarsfan06
Registered User
 
DallasStarsfan06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 329
vCash: 500
To Buffalo:
Paul Stastny
Joey Hishon
2nd Overall Pick
Tyson Barrie
11th overall pick

To Colorado:
Tyler Myers
Zack Kassian
Jonas Enroth
1st round pick

DallasStarsfan06 is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:57 PM
  #74
BrickAHL
#NotUs
 
BrickAHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,068
vCash: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
That's what he said...
Sorry my bad, clearly I need to work on my Engrish.

BrickAHL is offline  
Old
05-14-2011, 08:58 PM
  #75
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,358
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStarsfan06 View Post
To Buffalo:
Paul Stastny
Joey Hishon
2nd Overall Pick
Tyson Barrie
11th overall pick

To Colorado:
Tyler Myers
Zack Kassian
Jonas Enroth
1st round pick
Let me add a sarcasm emote for you.


Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.