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2011 NHL Entry Draft Talk - Part IX - Intangibles are overrated edition

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Old
05-18-2011, 04:03 PM
  #351
Brodeur
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
The age thing is such an overrated concept. Couturier is a month away from being born in '93. He's a whopping 6 months older than Huberdeau, big deal.
Just pointing out that comparing their 2009-10 seasons wasn't necessarily apples to apples. Most first year junior players aren't going to be given prime ice team from the older players on the team. I wasn't saying that Couturier was by any means inferior to Huberdeau because of that, or the other way around.

If anything, a late month birthday like Couturier you simply have a larger sample space to gauge their play. In some cases, that works against them since scouts have that extra season to pick out flaws. This was a point of contention with why certain people thought Zach Bogosian (July 1990) had greater upside than Drew Doughty (December 1989). Some people liked Nathan Horton's upside (May 1985) over Eric Staal (October 1984) for similar reasons. Or even last year, Taylor Hall was on the radar for a long time while Tyler Seguin rose in the rankings.

It's just a side effect of the January 1st cutoff date. Guys born after tend to have more extreme arcs going into the draft year.

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05-18-2011, 04:45 PM
  #352
NJD Kula
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If Couturier ended up as good as Zubrus but better at FOs would anyone be disappointed?

I think he could be a lot better but I would be happy if he ended up as Zubrus 2.0

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05-18-2011, 04:49 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Kulachuk View Post
If Couturier ended up as good as Zubrus but better at FOs would anyone be disappointed?

I think he could be a lot better but I would be happy if he ended up as Zubrus 2.0
I would be disappointed.

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05-18-2011, 04:50 PM
  #354
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He will be much better then Zubrus as long as he's not rushed like Zubie was. With a big kid, we're gonna have to be patient.

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05-18-2011, 04:51 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Kulachuk View Post
If Couturier ended up as good as Zubrus but better at FOs would anyone be disappointed?

I think he could be a lot better but I would be happy if he ended up as Zubrus 2.0
Yes - very much so.

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05-18-2011, 04:52 PM
  #356
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I would.

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05-18-2011, 04:53 PM
  #357
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You could buy that player on the market. If you're drafting this low, you want something that you can't necessarily get easily on the market.

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05-18-2011, 04:54 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
You could buy that player on the market. If you're drafting this low, you want something that you can't necessarily get easily on the market.
Which is his 1st line center upside.

It's why I don't want Landeskog over him and I'd take Murphy over Landeskog as well.

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05-18-2011, 04:57 PM
  #359
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Yeah, because you can easily buy a player like Landeskog on the market, right.

EDIT: Why don`t you have Huberduber > them? He has better upside too. Oh right, because he`s a winger.

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05-18-2011, 04:59 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Getzo5 View Post
Yeah, because you can easily buy a player like Landeskog on the market, right.
It's his opinion. Don't get so defensive.

I have a very high opinion on Murphy and have him over Landeskog and others in this draft.

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05-18-2011, 05:00 PM
  #361
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I write things straight. I`m not getting offensive, believe me.

On the other hand, yes, I`m bored to hear the same stuff again. Simply because no one knows.

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05-18-2011, 05:00 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Getzo5 View Post
Yeah, because you can easily buy a player like Landeskog on the market, right.

EDIT: Why don`t you have Huberduber > them? He has better upside too. Oh right, because he`s a winger.
Oh I forgot we will never win the Cup without Landeskog and his all-mighty intangibles.

I don't want Huberdeau either.

Every time I hear about Landeskog, it's all about the stuff he does on the bench and in the locker room. When you take a closer look, he's being hyped up on all of that stuff and not on his ability on the ice. I want a game breaker with the 4th pick. Not a 2nd/3rd line winger as their most likely upside.

We can get a Clowe type through free agency. We don't have to use a top-5 pick on that.

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05-18-2011, 05:03 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Volchenkov 28 View Post
Oh I forgot we will never win the Cup without Landeskog and his all-mighty intangibles.

I don't want Huberdeau either.
See, that`s how it works. I like it, it`s fun. (btw. I assumed from that statement you can. I have no idea where did you get that thing about Landeskog)

Why, may I ask?

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05-18-2011, 05:10 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Mgd31 View Post
I'd like a center as well but if a Huberdeau is deemed by Conte/Lou to be the better pick then I'm not going to be up in all arms about it, despite our current logjam at wing.
Agreed 110%. I don't want Huberdeau because he's versatile. I don't want him because he's 6 months younger. I would want him because he's the better hockey player.

I don't want Huberdeau to begin with, but I support him if we select him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontPass2Rolston View Post
From a preview on the book 'Outliers'
It's an interesting idea, but I'm not buying that crap at all. Sure, it might matter for 10 year olds, but once you turn 16 and 17, I'm pretty sure everyone has experienced the same amount of coaching. The NHL coaches will work with these players anyway, which will have a greater impact than what they learned in juniors.

Tell Mario Lemieux, Marcel Dionne, Joe Sakic, and Ray Bourque that they were all limited for being born in the latter months.

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05-18-2011, 05:13 PM
  #365
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I think all 4 guys bring some different skills to the table that are hard to find on the open market.

RNH = hockey iq, skills with the puck, vision, skating skills
Couturier = hockey iq, size/skill ratio, vision
Larsson = hockey iq, size/skating ratio, first pass
Landeskog = leadership qualities, 200 foot player w/goal scoring skills

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05-18-2011, 05:13 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
If anything, a late month birthday like Couturier you simply have a larger sample space to gauge their play. In some cases, that works against them since scouts have that extra season to pick out flaws. This was a point of contention with why certain people thought Zach Bogosian (July 1990) had greater upside than Drew Doughty (December 1989). Some people liked Nathan Horton's upside (May 1985) over Eric Staal (October 1984) for similar reasons. Or even last year, Taylor Hall was on the radar for a long time while Tyler Seguin rose in the rankings.
There you go. I bet Atlanta and Florida are both asking for mulligans on those drafts. I didn't follow those drafts, but I wonder how much stock was put into the age difference. Let's try to avoid that mishap.

Draft the better player. Not the one who's older. Not the one who's younger.

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05-18-2011, 05:14 PM
  #367
Mgd31
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Originally Posted by Volchenkov 28 View Post
Oh I forgot we will never win the Cup without Landeskog and his all-mighty intangibles.

I don't want Huberdeau either.

Every time I hear about Landeskog, it's all about the stuff he does on the bench and in the locker room. When you take a closer look, he's being hyped up on all of that stuff and not on his ability on the ice. I want a game breaker with the 4th pick. Not a 2nd/3rd line winger as their most likely upside.

We can get a Clowe type through free agency. We don't have to use a top-5 pick on that.
Hmm. Landeskog seems to be like Ryan Callahan perhaps? Who I love as a player, but you can't waste a top pick on him

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05-18-2011, 05:17 PM
  #368
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Landeskog doesn't just have intangibles. For a guy who is a 200 foot player and plays a complete game like he does, he has nice scoring instincts and shot. I can easily see him scoring 30-35 goals in his prime, with an all-around game, and captain on a good team.

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05-18-2011, 05:18 PM
  #369
Mgd31
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Originally Posted by dream catcher View Post
Landeskog doesn't just have intangibles. For a guy who is a 200 foot player and plays a complete game like he does, he has nice scoring instincts and shot. I can easily see him scoring 30-35 goals in his prime, with an all-around game, and captain on a good team.
What exactly is a 200 foot player ?

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05-18-2011, 05:20 PM
  #370
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What exactly is a 200 foot player ?
A Chara clone gone horribly wrong.

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05-18-2011, 05:21 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by dream catcher View Post
I think all 4 guys bring some different skills to the table that are hard to find on the open market.

RNH = hockey iq, skills with the puck, vision, skating skills
Couturier = hockey iq, size/skill ratio, vision
Larsson = hockey iq, size/skating ratio, first pass
Landeskog = leadership qualities, 200 foot player w/goal scoring skills
E-x-a-c-t-l-y.

Don`t get me wrong guys (especially you Volchenkov, I didn`t mean to offend you or sth), anybody can have own opinion, but talking stuff like "I`d pass on Landeskog because player like GL can be found on open market" is simply more than just a bold statement and I have to strongly disagree with that. Those types NEVER get there. I still can`t find any evidence why this board changed the general opinion so much. I`m just curious. Yes, I`m supporting the idea of drafting him, however, I stay quiet for the most of time. But when someone steps up and says something like that...

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Old
05-18-2011, 05:22 PM
  #372
dream catcher
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Originally Posted by Mgd31 View Post
What exactly is a 200 foot player ?
what I mean by that is someone who doesn't float, he plays on the whole ice, from one end to the other, in front of the net, behind the net etc...

Landeskog is that type of player IMO.

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05-18-2011, 05:26 PM
  #373
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I'm still very high on Kog, but am also liking Couturier more and more.

My first choice was and will be Larsson. Still praying we get a chance at him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
A Chara clone gone horribly wrong.



37 days to go..

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Old
05-18-2011, 05:26 PM
  #374
Getzo5
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What exactly is a 200 foot player ?
It`s funny and all, but who realized this guy gets it?

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05-18-2011, 05:27 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Getzo5 View Post
E-x-a-c-t-l-y.

Don`t get me wrong guys, anybody can have own opinion, but talking stuff like "I`d pass on Landeskog because that can be found on open market" is simply more than just a bold statement and I have to strongly disagree with that. Those types NEVER get there. I still can`t find any evidence why this board changed the general opinion so much. I`m just curious. Yes, I`m supporting the idea of drafting him, however, I stay quiet for the most of time. But when someone steps up and says something like that...
It's much easier to find good wingers on July 1 then top line centers or defenseman.

Most of the teams drafting in the top-5, will probably be there again next season so they can afford to add a piece like Landeskog while still getting a player with high upside next draft. We're probably not going to be back in this situation again and it's why I'd rather go for the big center or elite PMD. Just my opinion and I respect yours.

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