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2011 NHL Entry Draft Talk - Part IX - Intangibles are overrated edition

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Old
05-16-2011, 10:26 AM
  #126
Saugus
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Other than Huberdeau possibly rising further, we basically have the final rankings for the top tier of the draft, since nobody else is still playing.

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05-16-2011, 10:28 AM
  #127
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Don`t forget about NHL Combine on the 29th of May, Saugus.

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05-16-2011, 10:33 AM
  #128
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Hopefully Larsson doesn't feel like benching and sleeps through the bike ride

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05-16-2011, 10:48 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Hopefully Larsson doesn't feel like benching and sleeps through the bike ride
and you think Lou would draft him?!

nah, i know what you were getting at, though.

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05-16-2011, 10:52 AM
  #130
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The combine has a minimal effect at best. It's so silly.

I'm pretty sure Doughty still can't do a pullup, but he's a great player.

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05-16-2011, 10:57 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
The combine has a minimal effect at best. It's so silly.

I'm pretty sure Doughty still can't do a pullup, but he's a great player.
Tell that to John Merrill.

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05-16-2011, 11:07 AM
  #132
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I'd like to thank johnny for that

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05-16-2011, 11:13 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
If we were to draft Landeskog, we would definitely have to trade some forwards. They say he's the most ready to play in the NHL.

You can go:
Kovy-Zajac-Nick
Parise-Elias-Landeskog
* - Josefson- Teddy
Pelley-Steck-Shark (Pelley may be the odd man out)

Here'a the problem:
Rolston (Very hard to Move)
Zub (Not a 4th liner)
Clarkson (Being paid to much to be a 4th liner)
Henrique (Not a 4th liner, however, may get stuck there this season)
Henrique on the 4th line is probably not a bad thing, as a rookie. Remember our 4th line in 1995 had Rolston and Brylin on it.

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05-16-2011, 11:19 AM
  #134
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...Remember our 4th line in 1995 had Rolston and Brylin on it.
makes me want to cry to think about the amount of talent the devils had on those teams and in the system compared to today.

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05-16-2011, 11:22 AM
  #135
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I still think Lou moves one of those forwards. Not sure for what but there is a surplus for sure.

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05-16-2011, 11:32 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
The combine has a minimal effect at best. It's so silly.

I'm pretty sure Doughty still can't do a pullup, but he's a great player.
True.. to an extent. I think the strength tests have minimal effects because anyone can and will get stronger with NHL training, but the measurements and the bike I think are pretty important, at least. McIlrath was a late-first to 2nd rounder before everyone found out he had the wingspan of a pterodactyl at the combine and he shot up to the top-15. Performance on the bike says a lot about not just stamina but how far a player can push himself. They do reaction and hand-eye tests too, I think. Basically, I think it's the stuff you can't really train or prepare for that matter the most.

In a way I think it's better to just be middle of the pack at everything, and then the play on the ice just speaks for itself. Guys that are very big, strong, small, or weak and there can be a lot of conjecture as to the transition to higher levels of play. "Is so and so only good because he's bigger and stronger than those he plays against?" "Will the small guy be able to play with the big guys?" "If he's this good when he's this weak, imagine how good he'll be when he's stronger..." "Does the fact that he's so weak suggest he isn't a hard worker?" Almost any extreme can be looked at positively or negatively.

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05-16-2011, 11:54 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Tell that to John Merrill.
I don't think he's complaining about dropping to the Devils. Luckily his interview with Lou went well enough.

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05-16-2011, 12:02 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Goose Huckabee View Post
True.. to an extent. I think the strength tests have minimal effects because anyone can and will get stronger with NHL training, but the measurements and the bike I think are pretty important, at least. McIlrath was a late-first to 2nd rounder before everyone found out he had the wingspan of a pterodactyl at the combine and he shot up to the top-15. Performance on the bike says a lot about not just stamina but how far a player can push himself. They do reaction and hand-eye tests too, I think. Basically, I think it's the stuff you can't really train or prepare for that matter the most.
I disagree with this a lot. These guys are training for the NHL, not the Tour de France. I don't care how the do on the bike, I care about how they are on the ice. These guys have played hockey all of their lives and many have been under the microscope for many years now. Even some of the now-projected 7th rounders have had scouts' eyes since their middle school days. We should have a good idea about how hard these kids can push themselves by now. If not, a 15 minute bike ride isn't going to say anything more.

All of these tests are effectively metaphors for on ice play. The jumping tests display explosiveness, the bike displays how hard a player will push themselves, etc. Forget the metaphors. See how explosive a kid is ON THE ICE. See how hard a kid pushes himself ON THE ICE. We're talking hockey here, not fitness gurus.

The combine has way too much weight, IMO.

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05-16-2011, 12:07 PM
  #139
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One way or another, the point was just to mention there is something in between. More or less important it is, it`s there and could change some opinions a little. That`s all.

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05-16-2011, 12:08 PM
  #140
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Teams that take fitness freaks over players with more game sense and skill will regret it. That's true in every sport.

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05-16-2011, 12:08 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
I disagree with this a lot. These guys are training for the NHL, not the Tour de France. I don't care how the do on the bike, I care about how they are on the ice. These guys have played hockey all of their lives and many have been under the microscope for many years now. Even some of the now-projected 7th rounders have had scouts' eyes since their middle school days. We should have a good idea about how hard these kids can push themselves by now. If not, a 15 minute bike ride isn't going to say anything more.

All of these tests are effectively metaphors for on ice play. The jumping tests display explosiveness, the bike displays how hard a player will push themselves, etc. Forget the metaphors. See how explosive a kid is ON THE ICE. See how hard a kid pushes himself ON THE ICE. We're talking hockey here, not fitness gurus.
So the NHL and all 30 owners/Gm's decided to throw this little party for nothing? If the prospect you are targetting has very low stamina but can dangle like a Datsyuk, it might weight in their decisions. All I'm saying is that the combine is there for a reason and you are right, a team won't make it's decision based on the combine alone but it might give them a inside scoop that they wouldn't see on the ice (Stamina, strenght, etc)

Are you a lawyer by any chance? You like to disagree with everything and anything so if you aren't a lawyer, you should concider it... you'd make a **** load of cash.

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05-16-2011, 12:12 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Teams that take fitness freaks over players with more game sense and skill will regret it. That's true in every sport.
Such as Chara?

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05-16-2011, 12:19 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Getzo5 View Post
Such as Chara?
Following that logic in this year's draft, we would take Oleksiak.

If we did that, this board would rightfully throw a ****fit.

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05-16-2011, 12:27 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
So the NHL and all 30 owners/Gm's decided to throw this little party for nothing? If the prospect you are targetting has very low stamina but can dangle like a Datsyuk, it might weight in their decisions. All I'm saying is that the combine is there for a reason and you are right, a team won't make it's decision based on the combine alone but it might give them a inside scoop that they wouldn't see on the ice (Stamina, strenght, etc)
You missed the point of what I was trying to say. Is stamina important? Absolutely. Should stamina be tested on a bicycle? That I don't agree with. The body has three types of muscle fibers: Type 1 (slow twitch, endurance), Type 2a ("medium" twitch, hybrid), and Type 2b (fast twitch, sprints.) Not to get into an anatomy lesson (I've taken many classes at the college level about this stuff so it's been drilled into my head) but most sports utilize type 2a and 2b muscle fibers more than type 1. Most of the combine exercises test type 1 muscle fibers. I hope I'm not the only one who sees a problem with that.

IMO, the combine would show a lot more and be more entertaining (FWIW) if the combine tested on-ice things, maybe similar to the NHL skills competition. Give them targets in a net. Make them run something similar to a 40-yard dash on skates. Give them a hardest shot competition or something. All the things that can show what they can do on the ice. Make the events practical.

Every year you will see a handful of prospects fall and a handful rise SOLELY because of the combine. As Goose said, look at McIlrath. I'm a huge fan of each of the big 4 US sports as I'm sure you know and I follow them all closely. In all 4 sports, the players that rise because of the combine are often busts and the ones that fall because of the combine go on to be huge steals. Do they all fit that bill? Certainly not, but it's an obvious trend.

I'll go in the dark right now and bet you a dollar that a certain player will rise from top ~25 to top ~10 material. Without even knowing who that player is, I'm willing to bet that player does not live up to expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Are you a lawyer by any chance? You like to disagree with everything and anything so if you aren't a lawyer, you should concider it... you'd make a **** load of cash.
Don't even play this card. I have my own opinions and I'm not going to apologize for having them. You should know that, being that you've gone against the majority here with Parise and PMD views in the past.

I don't disagree with everything. I disagree with things that go against my personal opinions. That doesn't mean the other person is wrong, it just means I don't agree. Not everything is a personal attack, you know.

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05-16-2011, 12:55 PM
  #145
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Just checked out the NHL Network schedule and they begin covering the Memorial cup on Saturday and Sunday and no St. John. Sucks! I wanted to get a look at Huberdeau. Guess I'll have to wait.

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05-16-2011, 01:10 PM
  #146
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I can't believe there's still another month until the draft. Feels like forever.

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05-16-2011, 01:22 PM
  #147
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well it used to be 2 months so we are getting there. Once a team wins the cup, it won't be much longer. That's my benchmark

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05-16-2011, 01:28 PM
  #148
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For curiosity's sake, how high do you guys think Huberdeau can climb in the rankings?

My guess is he ends up at #3 behind RNH and Larsson in the final rankings. Doesn't mean he'll necessarily get taken that high, just that's where he'll be ranked, I think.

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05-16-2011, 01:29 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
For curiosity's sake, how high do you guys think Huberdeau can climb in the rankings?

My guess is he ends up at #3 behind RNH and Larsson in the final rankings.
That's what I've had for a week or 2 now. Sounds like I need to find something more creative then.

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05-16-2011, 01:53 PM
  #150
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For curiosity's sake, how high do you guys think Huberdeau can climb in the rankings?

My guess is he ends up at #3 behind RNH and Larsson in the final rankings. Doesn't mean he'll necessarily get taken that high, just that's where he'll be ranked, I think.
Much like anyone, he could go anywhere from 2-6 or so. I agree that right now, he's probably 3rd overall. Depending on his performance in the Memorial Cup, Colorado may even be tempted at 2 since he's capable of playing wing.

If Colorado or Florida takes him, it really increases our likelihood of landing Larsson, and guarantees us Couturier as the consolation. Although I'm still open to taking a Murphy trade down or at worst, selecting Murphy at 4.

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