HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

evaluating talent

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-15-2011, 12:47 PM
  #1
Long Sky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
evaluating talent

watching TSN and realized that there are 6 ex habs still in the play-offs and 3 former coaches in the mtl system! Hind sight is nice but I think Mtl management needs to put more effort in team development and evaluation. Seems like Mtl management has been making more bad moves than good moves in the last few years. I want to hear form others or I'm i alone with this opinion. Emilin left the game today with an injury, anyone see what happened? Pleks looks real good with Jagr, just making an observation. Interesting free agent. Comments

Long Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:04 PM
  #2
old scotia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 196
vCash: 500
Gauthier at the trade deadline declared his style of team made it to the conference final last year. OOPS. I knew we were in trouble when he said that. Halak got us to the conference finals and saved Martin and Gauthier's jobs.
GUARANTEE - Gauthier and Martin fired by July 2012!!

old scotia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:10 PM
  #3
CTHabsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Sky View Post
watching TSN and realized that there are 6 ex habs still in the play-offs and 3 former coaches in the mtl system! Hind sight is nice but I think Mtl management needs to put more effort in team development and evaluation. Seems like Mtl management has been making more bad moves than good moves in the last few years. I want to hear form others or I'm i alone with this opinion. Emilin left the game today with an injury, anyone see what happened? Pleks looks real good with Jagr, just making an observation. Interesting free agent. Comments
Would having Higgins, Lapierre, Recchi, Ryder, Bergeron, and Moore on the team made the Canadiens Cup winners? I don't think so. I also don't think that those coaches would have achieved more than Jaccques Martin with the current group of Canadiens.

CTHabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:14 PM
  #4
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by old scotia View Post
Gauthier at the trade deadline declared his style of team made it to the conference final last year. OOPS. I knew we were in trouble when he said that. Halak got us to the conference finals and saved Martin and Gauthier's jobs.
GUARANTEE - Gauthier and Martin fired by July 2012!!
LOL, both have done a very good job, they guide a Habs team that was filled with major injuries to 6th in the East, took the Bruins to OT in game 7 with those injuries, and it took the Bruins 3 OT wins to beat us. Gauthier did a great job in keeping Price instead of Halak, so sorry to bust your bubble but neither are going anywhere. And to the OP, what are the Habs suppose to do, are they suppose to tell guys like Guy Boucher, you want them to not let them advance their careers? To me it means that MTL knows how to evaluate talent from than anything, Boucher, Alain Vag, Claude Julien, 3/4 coaches are contacted the Habs but in some case like Boucher and soon Kirk Muller, it just bad timing.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:20 PM
  #5
old scotia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 196
vCash: 500
They haven't done a good job. They didn't win the cup. Not even close. IN years. Last year was Halak's playoffs. You saw those games. Really where was the coaching. Out shot out chanced out worked. They burned Halak out at the end.

old scotia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:34 PM
  #6
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by old scotia View Post
They haven't done a good job. They didn't win the cup. Not even close. IN years. Last year was Halak's playoffs. You saw those games. Really where was the coaching. Out shot out chanced out worked. They burned Halak out at the end.
Well damn, i guess that means another 28 gm/coach tandems need to be fired. Every year will look like management musical chairs.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:35 PM
  #7
terreur
Registered User
 
terreur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Sky View Post
watching TSN and realized that there are 6 ex habs still in the play-offs and 3 former coaches in the mtl system! Hind sight is nice but I think Mtl management needs to put more effort in team development and evaluation. Seems like Mtl management has been making more bad moves than good moves in the last few years. I want to hear form others or I'm i alone with this opinion. Emilin left the game today with an injury, anyone see what happened? Pleks looks real good with Jagr, just making an observation. Interesting free agent. Comments
I think that has a lot to do with the fact that there is an unwritten law in the recent years that the Habs need to hire a francophone coach. There aren't many who fullfill that requirement while having head-coaching experience in the NHL. SO the Habs usually will look for a rookie coach, for one of the toughess coaching job in the NHL. So the acquire that experience rather quckly, but their lack of experience will get them canned rather quickly in Montreal. Than they become interesting coaches for the other teams, because they had to endure montrals pressure.

This is why I am super happy with the fact that Boucher has been hired by Tampa. He'll be able to coach there for 2-5 years, get the experience needed and ounce he'll get fired he will know how the game works and will be a better coach for the habs in a few years than what he would have been this year...

terreur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 09:35 PM
  #8
Long Sky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
coaches

they let boucher go, most teams allow thier minor league coaches advance. the real question is how long will Martin remain as coach? With the unwritten requirement of being bi-linguial it limits the candidates for habs coaches, it could be awhile before they find a bilinguial coach as good as boucher. Now they may let Muller go, its seems at least 4 other teams think he may one of the best coaching prospects around. I think Muller would be a good choice to coach Mtl. Lets see what happens, comments.

Long Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 09:49 PM
  #9
Richiebottles
Moonemojibro
 
Richiebottles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Moon
Country: United States
Posts: 9,576
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Richiebottles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Sky View Post
they let boucher go, most teams allow thier minor league coaches advance. the real question is how long will Martin remain as coach? With the unwritten requirement of being bi-linguial it limits the candidates for habs coaches, it could be awhile before they find a bilinguial coach as good as boucher. Now they may let Muller go, its seems at least 4 other teams think he may one of the best coaching prospects around. I think Muller would be a good choice to coach Mtl. Lets see what happens, comments.
The reason that they are letting him walk is because they don't want to have to pay off Martin and Carbo. You can't just change coaches at will. You still need to pay the guy. Plus Martin does an excellent job. Boring hockey ? Yes. Are we going to have a good Defense and a top 5 goalie next year ? Yes. Is are future looking bright ? Yes.

I like what i see. PG takes the team to be competitive while building for the future. Just look at the Halak trade. And he seems to get players who are far for the team closer. See Leblanc,Emelin,Avtsin...

Richiebottles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 10:59 PM
  #10
Long Sky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
coaches

I agree that the teamdid good, but how long will martin stay? I just don't want Mtl to tire off him and then realize that they let 2 good coachs leave. At some point you evaluate if the younger coach is better than the existing coach. How much of this years sucess was due to Muller or due to Boucher preparing the young players like Subban,white, desharnais, maxpac and others. One last question, if Mtl wants a bilinguial coach, shouldn't they have the head coach in hamilton be bilinguial? Would they bring up cunnyworth?

Long Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 12:29 AM
  #11
De Montreal
help
 
De Montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: omg montréal lolzzz
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Sky View Post
watching TSN and realized that there are 6 ex habs still in the play-offs and 3 former coaches in the mtl system! Hind sight is nice but I think Mtl management needs to put more effort in team development and evaluation. Seems like Mtl management has been making more bad moves than good moves in the last few years. I want to hear form others or I'm i alone with this opinion. Emilin left the game today with an injury, anyone see what happened? Pleks looks real good with Jagr, just making an observation. Interesting free agent. Comments
Six? As in I'm also counting Mark Recchi even though he left the Habs a decade ago?

De Montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 09:09 AM
  #12
WeThreeKings
DJ Nikita
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,992
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Basically, we keep our assets and as soon as they display a down season, we trade them for way below market value. It's beautiful.

You'd think if the management knew about these "character flaws" that caused them to pull a trigger on a lop-sided deal, they would've traded them at the peak of their value and got something of substance back.

Management 101, buy low, sell high. Instead, we buy nothing and sell low.

WeThreeKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 09:28 AM
  #13
CGG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 416
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,323
vCash: 500
The OP is complaining about all the wrong players. So what if these guys don't play for Montreal any longer, they wouldn't make a difference if still on the team.

Higgins - traded to NYR as basically a salary dump throw-in in the Gomez deal, a scorer that stopped scoring, was overpaid in Mtl and is now a 4th line guy with VAN. Montreal, Rangers, Flames and Panthers all ditched him.
Lapierre - Van picked him up for depth, nothing more. Didn't bring a whole lot to the table. Played terrible for Mtl this season and last.
Ryder - healthy scratch at the end of his Mtl career, did anyone think paying him $4 million a year was a good idea? Even Boston fans can't stand the guy.
Recchi - left the team in 1999 and is now 43.
Bergeron - the one thing Mtl doesn't need is a defenseman who can't play defense. Our PP didn't suffer without this guy, no one else signed him before January.
Moore - this one hurts a bit, but he thought he was worth more $$$. Signed late by TB and for cheap. They made a good move.


Instead of taking credit for finding all of this coaching "talent" let's instead complain about losing them?

Vigneault - Seriously? This would be his 14th season if Montreal kept him.
Julien - Mtl hired him from the Edmonton, are Oilers fans crying now too? He wore out his welcome in Montreal and did an underwhelming job with the Bruins in round 1.
Boucher - you don't fire one of the winningest coaches in hockey history after taking a # 8 seed to the conference finals in his first year of a 4-year contract while still paying the guy he replaced. You also don't prevent a minor league coach from taking an NHL head coaching position.

CGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 09:59 AM
  #14
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by old scotia View Post
Gauthier at the trade deadline declared his style of team made it to the conference final last year. OOPS. I knew we were in trouble when he said that. Halak got us to the conference finals and saved Martin and Gauthier's jobs.
GUARANTEE - Gauthier and Martin fired by July 2012!!
Don't regurgitate that Halak myth. Price got the Habs within a whisker of advancing this time but the injuries (Eller as well as Markov, Gorges, and Pacioretty) were too much to overcome. Gauthier and Martin deserve a lot of credit for their personnel judgment and strategy.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 10:00 AM
  #15
LePoche69
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,689
vCash: 500
I don't care about most of them, beside Lapierre.

I still don't understand Lapierre's departure.

The guy was a playoffs performer. I can't see what Pyatt brought more to the game. And right now, he's still better than Ryan White despite all the love the latest gets here (and I too like him).

He was unhappy? Big deal! All teams have unhappy players. And he still was playing ok.

I can't believe there was no place for him on the 4th line... I'm sure in the playoffs agisnt the Bruins he would have score 1 or 2 goals, or at least made a few passes (something Pyatt is perfectly unable to do), which could have make a difference in a series that went in 7th game...

LePoche69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 10:08 AM
  #16
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I don't care about most of them, beside Lapierre.

I still don't understand Lapierre's departure.

The guy was a playoffs performer. I can't see what Pyatt brought more to the game. And right now, he's still better than Ryan White despite all the love the latest gets here (and I too like him).

He was unhappy? Big deal! All teams have unhappy players. And he still was playing ok.

I can't believe there was no place for him on the 4th line... I'm sure in the playoffs agisnt the Bruins he would have score 1 or 2 goals, or at least made a few passes (something Pyatt is perfectly unable to do), which could have make a difference in a series that went in 7th game...
They traded lapierre because he was unhappy and asked to be traded. He is nothing White can't replace...and tougher.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 10:23 AM
  #17
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
I still don't understand how some people still don't understand Lapierre's departure. He was awful in Anaheim and only really stepped up his game once on the best team in the league.

Even then he isn't showing that he's that great a player even still. I loved having Lapierre on our team but even I can see he wasn't necessarily a team necessity. Guys like Lapierre can be had cheap via free agency, if you can get an asset for him then you do it. However I do think it's pretty lame that he got flipped for more than what we got, but even then it's part of the game, these types of deals happen.

He's a dime a dozen player guys come on. We don't need Lapierre, if anything Lapierre needs whatever team he's on more than they need him, guys like him can be found at a similar price or lower, or even developed from within.

I'm not saying he's useless. But he's far from a hard player to find.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 10:40 AM
  #18
CTHabsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 409
vCash: 500
Wait, what about Brett Clark? If only the Canadiens still had Brett Clark, the Cup would have been ours for sure!

CTHabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 10:48 AM
  #19
ChemiseBleuHonnete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,407
vCash: 500
some people underestimate Boucher. He's already vastly superior to Julien and a much smarter individual to start with. Oh with more education and a much better toolbox. Oh and a philosophy that's not 20-years outdated.

ChemiseBleuHonnete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 11:47 AM
  #20
Protest the Hero
Registered User
 
Protest the Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
The OP is complaining about all the wrong players. So what if these guys don't play for Montreal any longer, they wouldn't make a difference if still on the team.

Higgins - traded to NYR as basically a salary dump throw-in in the Gomez deal, a scorer that stopped scoring, was overpaid in Mtl and is now a 4th line guy with VAN. Montreal, Rangers, Flames and Panthers all ditched him.
Lapierre - Van picked him up for depth, nothing more. Didn't bring a whole lot to the table. Played terrible for Mtl this season and last.
Ryder - healthy scratch at the end of his Mtl career, did anyone think paying him $4 million a year was a good idea? Even Boston fans can't stand the guy.
Recchi - left the team in 1999 and is now 43.
Bergeron - the one thing Mtl doesn't need is a defenseman who can't play defense. Our PP didn't suffer without this guy, no one else signed him before January.
Moore - this one hurts a bit, but he thought he was worth more $$$. Signed late by TB and for cheap. They made a good move.


Instead of taking credit for finding all of this coaching "talent" let's instead complain about losing them?

Vigneault - Seriously? This would be his 14th season if Montreal kept him.
Julien - Mtl hired him from the Edmonton, are Oilers fans crying now too? He wore out his welcome in Montreal and did an underwhelming job with the Bruins in round 1.
Boucher - you don't fire one of the winningest coaches in hockey history after taking a # 8 seed to the conference finals in his first year of a 4-year contract while still paying the guy he replaced. You also don't prevent a minor league coach from taking an NHL head coaching position.
Will he read this post? Probably, will he respond to it? Doubtful. I pretty much agree with you on everything here, I miss what Moore brought to the table when he was here, but everyone else is meh. I though Lapierre was hilarious, and love when he consistently moves his feet, but Anahiem traded him too remember, Higgins was finished in Montreal and had even worse seasons with NY, Florida and Calgary, his resurgence in Vancouver would be a great addition to our third line, but seriously let's not forget the seasons preceding this one.

The ex-coaching part is laughable. They were trying to 'develop' Boucher and another team asked for his services after one year of Martin's contract, not much they could.

Protest the Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 01:32 PM
  #21
Pr3Va1L
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Basically, we keep our assets and as soon as they display a down season, we trade them for way below market value. It's beautiful.

You'd think if the management knew about these "character flaws" that caused them to pull a trigger on a lop-sided deal, they would've traded them at the peak of their value and got something of substance back.

Management 101, buy low, sell high. Instead, we buy nothing and sell low.


Halak ?

Pr3Va1L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 01:52 PM
  #22
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 10,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Basically, we keep our assets and as soon as they display a down season, we trade them for way below market value. It's beautiful.

You'd think if the management knew about these "character flaws" that caused them to pull a trigger on a lop-sided deal, they would've traded them at the peak of their value and got something of substance back.

Management 101, buy low, sell high. Instead, we buy nothing and sell low.
classic hindsight problem: why trade away your players when they are good? plus, unless you are in cap hell, why would anyone trade a player that is doing well?

by that rational, let's trade price right now! i mean, he might slump, he might pull a theodore who knows but just to be sure, we might as well get something out of it rite?

MasterDecoy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 01:58 PM
  #23
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,066
vCash: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Sky View Post
they let boucher go, most teams allow thier minor league coaches advance. the real question is how long will Martin remain as coach? With the unwritten requirement of being bi-linguial it limits the candidates for habs coaches, it could be awhile before they find a bilinguial coach as good as boucher. Now they may let Muller go, its seems at least 4 other teams think he may one of the best coaching prospects around. I think Muller would be a good choice to coach Mtl. Lets see what happens, comments.
So Boucher was not allowed to advance by taking the job in Tampa? LoL.

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 02:52 PM
  #24
Melvin Udall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Basically, we keep our assets and as soon as they display a down season, we trade them for way below market value. It's beautiful.

You'd think if the management knew about these "character flaws" that caused them to pull a trigger on a lop-sided deal, they would've traded them at the peak of their value and got something of substance back.

Management 101, buy low, sell high. Instead, we buy nothing and sell low.

Bingo........we have a winner.

WTK seems to have nailed it.

Arguably, the players the Habs trade away will not form the core of a Cup champion, but if they are able to help other teams (often teams that are better than Montreal) - why could Habs managent not developed them into serviceable player assets and either keep them or at least get something of value in return for them?



What if this is....as good as it gets?

Melvin Udall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2011, 03:00 PM
  #25
Melvin Udall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
Halak ?
.


The Halak trade is the noteable exception to the rule that WTKings is pointing out - what do the Habs show for Higgins, Riberio, Ryder and Lappy (only 4 examples)?

Oh yeah, forgot Habs have Gomez (for Higgins and others), but I think WTKings was thinking of something the Habs could actually get of value in return for what they trade away!



What if this is..as good as it gets?


Last edited by Melvin Udall: 05-16-2011 at 03:05 PM.
Melvin Udall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.