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Old
05-16-2011, 03:05 PM
  #51
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Thus far in his NHL career he's averaged 1.21 shots per game, or about 100 if he plays an entire NHL season. League average shooting for forwards is in the neighborhood of 10%.

If he plays a full (or near full) season in the NHL, Zharkov is going to put up at least 6 to 8 goals.

That is, unless he's actually just the worst shot in the history of the NHL.

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05-16-2011, 03:10 PM
  #52
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No fourth liner is worth having this past year then if you have to score to be valuable. Defensive hockey is dead I guess.

Steckel, Mair, Pelley, Zharkov, Sestito... bye bye. Let's hope that doesn't carry to the D or we're screwed there too. Volchenkov, White, Salmela, Greene, Tallinder all scored less than him if you pro-rate the games played.

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05-16-2011, 03:13 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Getzo5 View Post
Our 4th line has been more or less weak in scoring since then.
ok whats your point? I'm not seeing what that has to do with Zharkovs need to score timely goals. What our 3rd and 4th lines have been since we won a cup, notice how we've sucked in the playoffs since then as well, doesn't impact whether or not Zharkov can be a useful piece to the puzzle.

I was only pointing out an attribute that I think is a must for good 4th liners.

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05-16-2011, 03:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
No fourth liner is worth having this past year then if you have to score to be valuable. Defensive hockey is dead I guess.

Steckel, Mair, Pelley, Zharkov, Sestito... bye bye. Let's hope that doesn't carry to the D or we're screwed there too. Volchenkov, White, Salmela, Greene, Tallinder all scored less than him if you pro-rate the games played.
GASP! Sorry for wanting a player that can do more. I must suck as hockey fan. And prorated all those dmen except for maybe white put up more points...not that it matters.

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05-16-2011, 03:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by devilzdontrule27 View Post
GASP! Sorry for wanting a player that can do more. I must suck as hockey fan. And prorated all those dmen except for maybe white put up more points...not that it matters.
I would hope D men get assists - since they have to pass the puck up to the forwards. Zharkov has the potential to be a quality playmaker with his passing so maybe if he gets time with some quality scorers he'll make you happy.

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05-16-2011, 03:25 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by devilzdontrule27 View Post
ok whats your point? I'm not seeing what that has to do with Zharkovs need to score timely goals. What our 3rd and 4th lines have been since we won a cup, notice how we've sucked in the playoffs since then as well, doesn't impact whether or not Zharkov can be a useful piece to the puzzle.

I was only pointing out an attribute that I think is a must for good 4th liners.
The point is, our 4th line was full of Zharkovs for years. (especially recently) I don`t know how much you`ve been complaining about that, but we were talking also about situation he`s the only Nogoalov there. You`ve said right away that if he doesn`t improve his scoring, he shouldn`t have a roster spot by any means. (at least I assume you ment that)

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05-16-2011, 03:38 PM
  #57
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In the NHL these days, a player cannot be a purely defensive specialist. He must chip in with some scoring ability to keep his spot. Just as offensively-challenged goons are an endangered species, so too is the pure defensive forward and PK specialist.

We need more two-way forwards. I'm not saying that Zharkov can't be one, but he isn't right now.

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05-16-2011, 03:38 PM
  #58
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The way I look at it, most of the time Zharkov has the puck, he either passes it to someone else who can score on his line, or he shoots and misses, and then backchecks like crazy and gets it back anyway.

So either way, the other team isn't scoring. I don't see anything wrong with that.
He can score zero goals all he wants, but if he generates pts by passing it to another player or keeps the other team from getting the puck, then he's done his job superbly.

This is especially useful on the PK when we need to stop the other team from scoring period.

In this respect Zharkov was better than both Brylin and Pandolfo.

Now, with those skills, I don't see why they don't just convert him to a d-man?

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05-16-2011, 03:47 PM
  #59
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I wish Vasyunov and Zharkov could combine into one player. The Blues have that in Tarasenko.

And it's not like he has stone hands. He actually has pretty decent hands but for some reason hasn't been able to figure it all out offensively. He'd be a pretty damn good puck-moving defenseman if he played defense.

Zharkov has awesome vision and can read plays very well. It's why I absolutely want a Vasyunov - Henrique - Zharkov third line down the road.

At best with Zharkov, we have a 15g - 30 point defensive specialist. At worst, a forechecking torpedo who can put up 10-15 points.

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05-16-2011, 05:24 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Volchenkov 28 View Post
I wish Vasyunov and Zharkov could combine into one player. The Blues have that in Tarasenko.

And it's not like he has stone hands. He actually has pretty decent hands but for some reason hasn't been able to figure it all out offensively. He'd be a pretty damn good puck-moving defenseman if he played defense.

Zharkov has awesome vision and can read plays very well. It's why I absolutely want a Vasyunov - Henrique - Zharkov third line down the road.

At best with Zharkov, we have a 15g - 30 point defensive specialist. At worst, a forechecking torpedo who can put up 10-15 points.


In fact, I want that as a 4th line right now. Waive Steckel and it's done.

People love them some Pelley. How many goals did he score last year? Like 3? In significantly more games I believe too.

All I can say is this team, as currently constructed, is better with Zharkov on it than without him on it. Unless some 3rd or 4th line specialist is added there is no reason for him not to be on the team; especially at what is likely to be a near league minimum salary. You could see the difference last year when he wasn't playing; how much more pathetic the 4th line was defensively. Still anemic offensively, but a liability in their own end also. And the Steckel-Zajac PK duo is not nearly as good as the Zharkov-Zajac PK duo. Even if he doesn't find the scoring touch, there are plenty of reasons for him to be on the team.

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05-16-2011, 05:32 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TheUnseenHand View Post


In fact, I want that as a 4th line right now. Waive Steckel and it's done.

People love them some Pelley. How many goals did he score last year? Like 3? In significantly more games I believe too.

All I can say is this team, as currently constructed, is better with Zharkov on it than without him on it. Unless some 3rd or 4th line specialist is added there is no reason for him not to be on the team; especially at what is likely to be a near league minimum salary. You could see the difference last year when he wasn't playing; how much more pathetic the 4th line was defensively. Still anemic offensively, but a liability in their own end also. And the Steckel-Zajac PK duo is not nearly as good as the Zharkov-Zajac PK duo. Even if he doesn't find the scoring touch, there are plenty of reasons for him to be on the team.
But Pelley has been a better goal scorer over the course of their NHL careers so far. Both at this point aren't very good offensively.

I love Zharkov's game, but the constant inability to score doesn't make him a lock for the lineup IMO.

NJ was 30th in GPG last year - by far. This team needs all 18 skaters to be able to score goals. As presently constituted, the bottom 6 and the defense contribute absolutely nothing offensively. This needs to change, with or without Zharkov.

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05-16-2011, 05:37 PM
  #62
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This team needs 11 scoring F and Zharkov, that`s the way I want to look at it. Unless there is 12th scoring bottom six player waiting for his chance (Hoeffel? maybe) he should be kept in the lineup. He has to improve his scoring a little, no doubt bout that, but others need it even more.

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05-16-2011, 05:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Clarkson Falls Down View Post
But Pelley has been a better goal scorer over the course of their NHL careers so far. Both at this point aren't very good offensively.

I love Zharkov's game, but the constant inability to score doesn't make him a lock for the lineup IMO.

NJ was 30th in GPG last year - by far. This team needs all 18 skaters to be able to score goals. As presently constituted, the bottom 6 and the defense contribute absolutely nothing offensively. This needs to change, with or without Zharkov.
I understand and by no means think he is a lock to make it either. IMO he should be, but I understand why he's not.

I understand that the team needs to score more goals too, but you're paying Kovy, and soon Zach, a ton of money to do so. They have to step up. And what do they need to be able to step up? Competent D men that can move the puck up to them. That's the real problem here. Not the bottom 6 not contributing a bunch of goals. It's the stone hands (and feet) D men that the forwards are CONSTANTLY covering for. If Zach, Kovy, Elias, Rolston, et.al. can't score consistently because of the pathetic D, how can you expect guys in the bottom 6 that don't ooze talent to be able to?

I guarantee that if the D had a true top pair that could defend AND move the puck both by carrying it and passing, scoring would go way up. Adding a 4th liner that scores 10 goals instead of 5 won't make a huge difference.

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05-16-2011, 05:44 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Getzo5 View Post
This team needs 11 scoring F and Zharkov, that`s the way I want to look at it. Unless there is 12th scoring bottom six player waiting for his chance (Hoeffel? maybe) he should be kept in the lineup. He has to improve his scoring a little, no doubt bout that, but others need it even more.
This is a good way to look at it. Zhark's game has to be considered better overall than Pelley's at the moment. Sure Pelley is physical, but he doesn't bring it all the time. Zhark's skating doesn't take a night.

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05-16-2011, 05:49 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TheUnseenHand View Post
I understand and by no means think he is a lock to make it either. IMO he should be, but I understand why he's not.

I understand that the team needs to score more goals too, but you're paying Kovy, and soon Zach, a ton of money to do so. They have to step up. And what do they need to be able to step up? Competent D men that can move the puck up to them. That's the real problem here. Not the bottom 6 not contributing a bunch of goals. It's the stone hands (and feet) D men that the forwards are CONSTANTLY covering for. If Zach, Kovy, Elias, Rolston, et.al. can't score consistently because of the pathetic D, how can you expect guys in the bottom 6 that don't ooze talent to be able to?

I guarantee that if the D had a true top pair that could defend AND move the puck both by carrying it and passing, scoring would go way up. Adding a 4th liner that scores 10 goals instead of 5 won't make a huge difference.
I agree that the defense is the first thing that needs to get better, and I do think that help from the system is on the way. I also agree that the general production will get better once the back end is stocked with puck movers.

But if there's an opportunity to get better scoring in an area you do it. Out of all the bottom 6'ers, Zharkov plays the type of game that I think is the best fit. But if there's another player who can play a similar game and score, you have to look into it.

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05-16-2011, 05:56 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Clarkson Falls Down View Post
I agree that the defense is the first thing that needs to get better, and I do think that help from the system is on the way. I also agree that the general production will get better once the back end is stocked with puck movers.

But if there's an opportunity to get better scoring in an area you do it. Out of all the bottom 6'ers, Zharkov plays the type of game that I think is the best fit. But if there's another player who can play a similar game and score, you have to look into it.
Without a doubt. Right now I don't see that guy. Henrique could be, but I'd really prefer to keep him at center. After that, you have to start thinking who can provide enough scoring to make up for what would more than likely be a significant decrease in defensive ability, speed, passing, turnover creating and penalty drawing. I just don't know if there is a guy in the system or someone out there that can be signed at a cheap enough price to justify the change.

I just want this team to win. If they stand a better chance without a certain player, so be it. Whatever it takes to win. I just happen to think, all things considered, this team has a better chance to win any given game when Zharkov is in the lineup as opposed to someone else in his role.

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05-16-2011, 05:59 PM
  #67
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Idk where some of you are getting all these ideas of prospects like vasyunov and hoeffel etc becoming anything special in this league. To me it feels like some of you expect every prospect we have to a be in the nhl soon. In reality that will never happen. I just bothers me when some one says things like Gelinas is a good puck mover, or Vasyunov, Henrique, Zharkov line.

I like Zharkov and feel he has proven his ability to play in the nhl, but he has not proved he is able to score at this level. I think he should still be in Jersey even though he cant score because he makes things happen. His defensive play and forechecking is outstanding and hopefully he can put a few in the net this year.

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05-16-2011, 06:10 PM
  #68
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Idk where some of you are getting all these ideas of prospects like vasyunov and hoeffel etc becoming anything special in this league. To me it feels like some of you expect every prospect we have to a be in the nhl soon. In reality that will never happen. I just bothers me when some one says things like Gelinas is a good puck mover, or Vasyunov, Henrique, Zharkov line.
I agree that some people all get some crazy expectations, but you didn't really provide the best examples. Vasyunov will be an average 2nd liner when all is said and done, but he won't get that chance on our team.

Henrique should be a good 3rd line center with some offensive upside. I'm not sure why some people say he'll be a first line winger with Parise and Zajac after a 15 minute cup of coffee, but at the end of it, Henrique will be a quality player.

Zharkov will be a great defensive specialist. He'll be good for 8-12 goals in his prime, very similar to Pandolfo.

Gelinas has potential to a 2nd pair guy, with him more likely to be a 3rd pair. Of course, if all the prospects pan out, he becomes expendable, but he should be a #5 guy during his career.

Hoeffel I don't know much about, but I don't expect him to be making the NHL team anytime soon unless we get severely hit with the injury bug.

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05-16-2011, 06:19 PM
  #69
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Absolutely should be in our opening night lineup next season. Perfect 3rd/4th line winger..Good passer and amazing speed.

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05-16-2011, 06:25 PM
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I'm really hoping he develops a scoring touch next season. We could use some goals from the fourth line.

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05-16-2011, 06:29 PM
  #71
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I'm really hoping he develops a scoring touch next season. We could use some goals from the fourth line.
He's not the only one. The entire bottom six needs to pick it up. At least Zharkov generates chances, which is more than we can say for the other 4th liners. Also why I think you notice his lack of finish more than other guys in the bottom 6. He creates more. Would be nice if some of the others could finish the play once in a while. I think Henrique would be good at that.

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05-16-2011, 06:29 PM
  #72
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I'm really hoping he develops a scoring touch next season. We could use some goals from the fourth line.
He has one thing he needs to work on all summer (shoot shoot shoot all day on a goalie).

I'm expecting 8-10 goals next year if he plays all 82. His pts will be up there around 25ish if his linemates can bury those nice passes he gives them.

Maybe I'm delusional here. Is 20-25pts too much to expect out of him?

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05-16-2011, 06:31 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BrodeursCups View Post
He has one thing he needs to work on all summer (shoot shoot shoot all day on a goalie).

I'm expecting 8-10 goals next year if he plays all 82. His pts will be up there around 25ish if his linemates can bury those nice passes he gives them.

Maybe I'm delusional here. Is 25pts too much to expect out of him?
Depends on his linemates. If it's Pelley and Steckel, yeah, 25 would be tough to reach.

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05-16-2011, 06:32 PM
  #74
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I agree that some people all get some crazy expectations, but you didn't really provide the best examples. Vasyunov will be an average 2nd liner when all is said and done, but he won't get that chance on our team.

Henrique should be a good 3rd line center with some offensive upside. I'm not sure why some people say he'll be a first line winger with Parise and Zajac after a 15 minute cup of coffee, but at the end of it, Henrique will be a quality player.

Zharkov will be a great defensive specialist. He'll be good for 8-12 goals in his prime, very similar to Pandolfo.

Gelinas has potential to a 2nd pair guy, with him more likely to be a 3rd pair. Of course, if all the prospects pan out, he becomes expendable, but he should be a #5 guy during his career.

Hoeffel I don't know much about, but I don't expect him to be making the NHL team anytime soon unless we get severely hit with the injury bug.

Lol you agreed with me and then went and said that vasy will be a second liner and gelinas an NHL defenseman. I don't think either player will have much of a career

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05-16-2011, 06:35 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnseenHand View Post
Depends on his linemates. If it's Pelley and Steckel, yeah, 25 would be tough to reach.
It will be interesting to see how they unfold because there's a lot of competition for the top-9.

The fourth line will more than likely include some combo of pelley-steckel-insert cone here so it's going to be junk.

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