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Old
05-19-2011, 11:57 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
That's why Hartnell and Carle can go. There's 7 mil in space, and doesn't affect the young, talented core.
You still need to fill the LW and a defensive spot, how much is that going to cost? As much as I cannot stand Hartnell on most nights, who else on this team can play that role? This team goes from charmin soft, staypuff marshmellow man soft. They may never win another playoff series. What did the Flyers miss this past season? A goalie, and two guys like Laperriere and Asham, plus add the defensive depth helped them get over the loss of Pronger. Imagine Bartulis being a regular on the ice, you could have Ken Dryden in net and he would hung out to dry every night.

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05-19-2011, 11:58 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Do you watch the games? When I think physical wingers on the Flyers I think of JVR and Powe. Hartnell just isn't playing his role, which should be a physical winger.
LOL, yup, that will get it done.

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05-19-2011, 11:59 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
You still need to fill the LW and a defensive spot, how much is that going to cost? As much as I cannot stand Hartnell on most nights, who else on this team can play that role? This team goes from charmin soft, staypuff marshmellow man soft. They may never win another playoff series. What did the Flyers miss this past season? A goalie, and two guys like Laperriere and Asham, plus add the defensive depth helped them get over the loss of Pronger. Imagine Bartulis being a regular on the ice, you could have Ken Dryden in net and he would hung out to dry every night.
Wait...so you said that if the Flyers trade Hartnell, they may never win another playoff series? Are you serious?

Bring up Rinaldo. There, toughness/hitting problem solved. Bring up Gus or play Bart, put them on the last pairing so they can develop and learn. There, Dman problem solved.

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05-19-2011, 12:04 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Wait...so you said that if the Flyers trade Hartnell, they may never win another playoff series? Are you serious?

Bring up Rinaldo. There, toughness/hitting problem solved. Bring up Gus or play Bart, put them on the last pairing so they can develop and learn. There, Dman problem solved.
Flyers got outhit, outmuscled, and outplayed against the Bruins. Rinaldo, another 4th line gem who is unproven. Bartulis is a 7th d-man, AHL player. Gustafsson may have the possibility to step up which means they need to resign O'Donnell for $1mill. Flyers cannot get any softer up front. If they lose Hartnell they need to replace him with someone like Cole and balance out the Richards-Versteeg line with another banger. This team lacked the balls to win when it counted, they need to get some of that back.

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05-19-2011, 12:06 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Flyers got outhit, outmuscled, and outplayed against the Bruins. Rinaldo, another 4th line gem who is unproven. Bartulis is a 7th d-man, AHL player. Gustafsson may have the possibility to step up which means they need to resign O'Donnell for $1mill. Flyers cannot get any softer up front. If they lose Hartnell they need to replace him with someone like Cole and balance out the Richards-Versteeg line with another banger. This team lacked the balls to win when it counted, they need to get some of that back.
I'm not sure if you were watching, but Hartnell wasn't doing a THING to fix those problems you mentioned. He was awful, actually.

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05-19-2011, 12:14 PM
  #131
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Couldn't find anything where you guys graded the players so I might as well throw this in here as it projects forward...


Grading the 2010-11 Flyers’ forwards and looking ahead

http://nhlhotstove.com/grading-the-2...looking-ahead/

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Old
05-19-2011, 12:37 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm not sure if you were watching, but Hartnell wasn't doing a THING to fix those problems you mentioned. He was awful, actually.
Part of the bigger picture, yes. Not one player on that team in that series knew their role, they all thought they could jump on the ice, flip the switch, make a couple behind the back passes, finesse their way past the Bruins. If Hartnell does come back I want Homer to get him on the ice over the summer working on his skating, mandatory skating.

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05-19-2011, 12:38 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm not sure if you were watching, but Hartnell wasn't doing a THING to fix those problems you mentioned. He was awful, actually.
And BTW, Hartnell is a follower, not a leader. Getting some guys who set an example is a good thing, too much complacency in the room and on the ice.

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05-19-2011, 12:56 PM
  #134
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aprox 60m roster

Ville Leino($2.8-3m) /Daniel Briere ($6.500m) /Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)/Claude Giroux ($3.750m)/Matt Read or FA or in a Timo trade($0.900m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)/Mike Richards ($5.750m)/Andreas Nodl ($0.950m)
Tom Sestito or Zac Rinaldo or Eric Wellwood ($0.58m)/Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)

Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Kevin Bieksa (3.75m)/Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($4.000m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

Aprox 60M with breathing room on the cap space.

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Old
05-19-2011, 09:33 PM
  #135
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FORWARDS
Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Carter ($5.272m) / Giroux ($3.750m)
Hartnell ($4.200m) / Briere ($6.500m) / Leino ($2.800m*)
Nodl ($0.775m*) / Richards ($5.750m) / Versteeg ($3.083m)
Powe ($0.725m*) / Betts ($0.700m) / Testwuide ($0.900m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Meszaros ($4.000m) / Pronger ($4.921m)
Coburn ($3.200m) / Timonen ($6.333m)
Woywitka ($0.750m*) / Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Bryzgalov ($5.200m*) / Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,914,988; BONUSES: $2,085,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $85,012


Subtractions:
Carcillo
Shelley (starts season in AHL)
Carle
O'Donnell (retired)
Zherdev

Additions/adjustments:
Powe and Nodl QOs
Leino (as per handshake agreement)
Pricey veteran staring goaltender (Bryzgalov)
3rd paring defenseman (Woywitka may be too pricey, it's just a shot in the dark)
Gustafsson, Testwuide and Holmstrom are the call-ups (just place-holders, because that will actually be determined in camp)

This plan is dependent on a significant increase to the salary cap. The salary cap increase is not fixed at 5%, but is tied to hockey-related seasonal revenue. I am guessing there will be a 7-8% increase, since there has been nothing but good news on that front for a long time.

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Old
05-19-2011, 09:57 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Throwing Bob in the AHL will do nothing for him at this point.
on the other hand what good is only playing 20 games going to do? Having him play a year in the AHL and have him work on his flaws might not be a bad move.

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05-19-2011, 10:23 PM
  #137
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Am I the only one who believes that Shelley will never see AHL time?

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Old
05-20-2011, 02:18 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Am I the only one who believes that Shelley will never see AHL time?
Don't see it happen either.
Unless Rinaldo has a breakout season or Lappy attempts a comeback.

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05-20-2011, 02:20 AM
  #139
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Don't see it happen either.
Unless Rinaldo has a breakout season or Lappy attempts a comeback.
Lappy will probably be in no condition to ever play hockey again. I'd love for him to, but he probably just can't.

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Old
05-20-2011, 02:31 AM
  #140
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That is a very hopeful outlook.
  1. The CBA has to be extended and bonus cushion has to be available.
  2. Vokoun signs a "cheap" contract ($4MM p/a).
  3. Carle gets traded for picks and prospects (the last time Holmgren did that was at the Draft '08 with Umberger).
  4. Leino gets a 4 year, $12MM extension.
  5. Both Powe and Nödl sign extensions for roughly the same money, but get one-way contracts (same treatment as Cote got).
  6. O'Donnell or a similar veteran signs a cheap one year contract including some bonuses.
  7. One of the AHL forwards steps up and makes the team, Read in this case (Holmstrom, Sestito or Testwuide are little cheaper options)
  8. Gustafsson makes the team, Marshall may be an option, otherwise we need to sign another 3rd pairing defender
  9. Laperriere is on LTIR again
  10. Leighton is back in the AHL

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($3.000m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.800m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Sean O'Donnell ($0.800m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($4.000m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,014,988; BONUSES: $1,850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $35,012

For some of the other lineups, you need at least a 22 man roster if you go that close to the salary cap, otherwise you would always need to send a player to LTIR or you can't ice a complete lineup if someone is injured.

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Old
05-20-2011, 08:21 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
That is a very hopeful outlook.
  1. The CBA has to be extended and bonus cushion has to be available.
  2. Vokoun signs a "cheap" contract ($4MM p/a).
  3. Carle gets traded for picks and prospects (the last time Holmgren did that was at the Draft '08 with Umberger).
  4. Leino gets a 4 year, $12MM extension.
  5. Both Powe and Nödl sign extensions for roughly the same money, but get one-way contracts (same treatment as Cote got).
  6. O'Donnell or a similar veteran signs a cheap one year contract including some bonuses.
  7. One of the AHL forwards steps up and makes the team, Read in this case (Holmstrom, Sestito or Testwuide are little cheaper options)
  8. Gustafsson makes the team, Marshall may be an option, otherwise we need to sign another 3rd pairing defender
  9. Laperriere is on LTIR again
  10. Leighton is back in the AHL

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($3.000m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.800m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Sean O'Donnell ($0.800m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($4.000m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,014,988; BONUSES: $1,850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $35,012

For some of the other lineups, you need at least a 22 man roster if you go that close to the salary cap, otherwise you would always need to send a player to LTIR or you can't ice a complete lineup if someone is injured.
Don't forget Walker in the AHL. I can easily see Homer giving Walker a chance next season, unless he gets traded.

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05-20-2011, 08:43 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Don't forget Walker in the AHL. I can easily see Homer giving Walker a chance next season, unless he gets traded.
Personally, I don't see us having the luxury of giving a 1.7 million Matt Walker a chance. He simply makes to much for being at best a 6th D-man. We have Leino to re-sign and a goalie to sign, we just don't have the space.

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05-20-2011, 08:52 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Personally, I don't see us having the luxury of giving a 1.7 million Matt Walker a chance. He simply makes to much for being at best a 6th D-man. We have Leino to re-sign and a goalie to sign, we just don't have the space.
There's another guy I wish would vanish. He's proven himself to be nothing special (and that's being generous). We have cheaper, younger options who should be in that spot over Walker.

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05-20-2011, 09:11 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Personally, I don't see us having the luxury of giving a 1.7 million Matt Walker a chance. He simply makes to much for being at best a 6th D-man. We have Leino to re-sign and a goalie to sign, we just don't have the space.
I agree. I just don't seem Homer agreeing. I was bringing it up for his list of things that need to go right.

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05-20-2011, 09:52 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($3.000m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.800m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Sean O'Donnell ($0.800m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($4.000m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,014,988; BONUSES: $1,850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $35,012
This was the best roster I could come up with as well, although as you pointed out it would require several things to happen before it could work. This definitely should be a Stanley Cup contender roster.

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05-20-2011, 10:12 AM
  #146
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Would be nice to see them put a good shutdown/checking line together. I'm bored so I'll give this a shot. I do think one year in the AHL could really help Bob. Flame away....


CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($2.666m)
Jamie Langenbrunner ($2.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Erik Cole ($3.000m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.850m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.500m) / Tom Sestito ($0.577m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Sean O'Donnell ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.400m) / Johan Hedberg ($1.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,103,094; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $296,906


Last edited by brian822: 05-20-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
05-20-2011, 12:45 PM
  #147
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I was wrong about Nodl's QO. It seems Signing bonuses should be subtracted from the Salary.

http://www.capgeek.com/qualifying_of...?player_id=756
Quote:
Andreas Nodl's qualifying offer is for $715,000.

Because his base salary of $650,000 — total salary of $735,000 minus signing bonus of $85,000 — is less than $660,000, it is increased by 10 percent for the purposes of his qualifying offer.

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05-20-2011, 02:10 PM
  #148
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Brendan Morrison ($0.950m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)
Darroll Powe ($0.850m) / Boyd Gordon ($0.700m) / Cody McCormick ($0.700m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($1.400m) / Andy Greene ($1.400m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($4.000m) / Brian Boucher ($0.700m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,014,988; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $385,012

How about this? Carle and Nödl sent to a team like Columbus or Buffalo that should be in the search for a pmd. We somehow don't have to take any salary back but only get some solid prospect and a nice little pick.

Carcillo is replaced by McCormick. Eaves won't replace Leino but he should provide some offense while being a pretty good defensive player. I've always liked Brendan Morrison and he's one of the very few NHL players that I've actually met, he also had a pretty solid season with Calgary. Don't mind the lines too much. I want Carter back at center though.

A 3rd pairing of Ericsson and Andy Greene should be adequate. A bit risky defensively perhaps.

Again, I'm absolutely useless at guessing what kind of sums players will trick GM's to pay out.

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05-20-2011, 02:22 PM
  #149
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No way your getting greene for 1.4. Randy jones got more than that from us lol.

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05-20-2011, 02:59 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
No way your getting greene for 1.4. Randy jones got more than that from us lol.
I looked around the NJD board a little and saw guys giving him anywhere between 1M and 2M. Mostly in the lower half of that segment.

I could very well see him earning a bigger raise though. There's something about defensemen that can move the puck somewhat that make GMs trigger happy.

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