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Philippe Cantin on what Pierre Boivin accomplished

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Old
05-17-2011, 10:39 AM
  #26
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Sure Boivin had great business acumen and knew how to capitalize on the Habs re-surgence, but I think any competent businessperson could have done the same.

I somewhat agree Theo was a big part of our re-surgance along with Gainey coming in and bringing some respectability back to the organization.

Knocking off the heavily favored Bruins in 02 and 04 played a huge part in this as well as Saku's battle and return from cancer. The Habs had a tonne of marketing opportunities based on all these events and fans wanted to come back.

Myself as a die hard fan was losing interest in the late 90's and early 2000's but Theo and Koivu heroics really brought me back into the fold, as they did with all my Hab fans buddies. It wasn't marketing that brought back this re-surgence and $$$, it was the players and hockey management.

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05-17-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
He lost sight of what the Montreal Canadiens are, a hockey team that plays for the Stanley Cup. Instead, he looked at the Canadiens as nothing more than a revenue stream.
Like it or not, the Canadians are nothing more than a revenue stream, like any other business in the world. The goal is to make money. If you don't make money, the shareholders leave or refuse to inject capital or bury the president. Of course, winning the Stanley Cup would brought in money, but not necessarily more. If a team win the cup but loose money, the president didn't make a good job.

Boivin was an amazing president.

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05-17-2011, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Like it or not, the Canadians are nothing more than a revenue stream, like any other business in the world. The goal is to make money. If you don't make money, the shareholders leave or refuse to inject capital or bury the president. Of course, winning the Stanley Cup would brought in money, but not necessarily more. If a team win the cup but loose money, the president didn't make a good job.

Boivin was an amazing president.
Unfortunately for you guys Pierre's job isn't just to help orchestrate a cup winning team. That is part of it, but it's only 1/3.

Playoff games = revenue.

Like somebody else mentioned he fixed the marketing and he fixed the revenue in terms of filling the stands. The one thing he didn't do is make us win a cup, but we've been a playoff team most years, like somebody else also mentioned in their list, he gets a C for this but an A for everything else.

Unfortunately for the fans his job isn't evaluated purely on how well the team does as a team but how well the Montreal Canadiens do as a business.

In terms of the stands being filled every night? 10/10
In terms of the team being marketed well? 10/10
In terms of the team playing playoff games? 5/10

Do you fire a guy and rag on him for doing a job 25/30? I think not.

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05-17-2011, 11:27 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Unfortunately for you guys Pierre's job isn't just to help orchestrate a cup winning team. That is part of it, but it's only 1/3.

Playoff games = revenue.

Like somebody else mentioned he fixed the marketing and he fixed the revenue in terms of filling the stands. The one thing he didn't do is make us win a cup, but we've been a playoff team most years, like somebody else also mentioned in their list, he gets a C for this but an A for everything else.

Unfortunately for the fans his job isn't evaluated purely on how well the team does as a team but how well the Montreal Canadiens do as a business.

In terms of the stands being filled every night? 10/10
In terms of the team being marketed well? 10/10
In terms of the team playing playoff games? 5/10

Do you fire a guy and rag on him for doing a job 25/30? I think not.
I'm not sure why you quoted me since we're mostly saying the same thing. Maybe because I'm not used to it

Basically, the outcome of all thirds you expressed here is making money or not. So the President goal is to make money. The thirds you expressed are the areas allowing the company to do so.

People tend to confuse "the team" with "the company". The team is just a part of the company. And in our days of branding, the product is not hockey; the product is the logo and all the lifestyle it represents.

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05-17-2011, 11:35 AM
  #30
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Boivin did a awesome job but the 100th season was too much. They made alot of money with the mersh but the pressure on the team was too much to handle.

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05-17-2011, 12:26 PM
  #31
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I don't understand this hate for Boivin. He took over a team that was practically destroyed by Molson's, the beer company not the family, and made it one of the top three financially stable franchises in the league. He also reversed the abysmal performance in our hockey management. Placed competent hockey people in key positions on the team. He made Uncle George a couple of fortunes.

He never claimed he wanted Francophones in key management positions. He said he wanted talent who could speak to the people of Quebec (hello Gainey). Timmins is a unilingual Anglo, he got a job.

I don't find anything wrong with having people in place who could speak some French and are willing to learn.

Marks I would give Boivin

Restoring the Montreal Canadiens image: A+
Finnacial results: A++
Hockey results: C-

I don't think he had that much input into the hockey operations but the team didn't perform as well as I had hoped under his watch but he also had to bring this team from the brink of disaster: thank you Ronald Corey.
Gainey was hired because of his reputation, experience, and ability to speak French (being a former player helped that). Timmins was already on board before Boivin took over, don't give him credit for that.
Although didn't Boivin come out & say that he was looking for the best French speaking person to replace Carbonneau-then Martin was hired. That is just ignorant to completely restrict your field of good available coaches. Just proves that winning is no longer the number one goal of the club-which is quite irritating to a 35 year fan like myself. I don't recall Bowman being fluent in French when Montreal recognized him as the candidate that would stear the team in a winning direction.

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05-17-2011, 12:32 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I'm not sure why you quoted me since we're mostly saying the same thing. Maybe because I'm not used to it

Basically, the outcome of all thirds you expressed here is making money or not. So the President goal is to make money. The thirds you expressed are the areas allowing the company to do so.

People tend to confuse "the team" with "the company". The team is just a part of the company. And in our days of branding, the product is not hockey; the product is the logo and all the lifestyle it represents.
Meant to be expanding on what you said. I should have made a point of mentioning it, I remember after I posted it I had figured you might come back and say something like this

Just because somebody quotes you doesn't always mean they're arguing with you I know HF has trained us that it is the way, and being that I'm the fury, you may have just assumed but all joking aside I was just confirming what you already said.

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Originally Posted by habsfan92 View Post
Gainey was hired because of his reputation, experience, and ability to speak French (being a former player helped that). Timmins was already on board before Boivin took over, don't give him credit for that.
Although didn't Boivin come out & say that he was looking for the best French speaking person to replace Carbonneau-then Martin was hired. That is just ignorant to completely restrict your field of good available coaches. Just proves that winning is no longer the number one goal of the club-which is quite irritating to a 35 year fan like myself. I don't recall Bowman being fluent in French when Montreal recognized him as the candidate that would stear the team in a winning direction.
Last I checked JM is one of the most experienced coaches in the NHL, is fluently bilingual and is a very respectable human being. All things that are definitely required when coaching a team like the Montreal Canadiens. We tried the Carbo route, it didn't succeed. They tried the Julien route, it was a failure too. They've learned their lessons with rookie coaches. For every Boucher there is a Carbonneau.

If that isn't logical enough reason to sign the guy on as a coach, and his recent stint to the cup isn't, then what is? Would you just prefer an Anglo coach? I'd understand if Benoit Brunet was named coach of the habs, but this is a well respected and well known NHL coach we landed here. Language isn't the determining factor here so it's a moot point. If it were Brunet or some illogical choice who justspoke French and sucked at coaching, I'd understand. Just anyone who speaks French isn't necessarily a good coach, but with Martin you over look the fact that he has stats to back up that he's a quality coach in the NHL.

Is he the coach with the best record in NHL history? No. But there are 30 teams all who need quality coaching.


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05-17-2011, 12:36 PM
  #33
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First of all... You need to settle down...

Secondly, I think your forgetting that over Mr. Boivin's tenure every coach that was here was French speaking/Quebecois... I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST THIS if it's the right person for the job but are you telling me that: Alain Vigneault (1997 - 2000), Michel Therrien (2000 - 2003), and Claude Julien (2003 - 2006), ALL of whom were rookie coaches, were the BEST available choices at the time?? I really don't think so...

Andre Savard?? Of his 36 picks, 7 are still in the NHL, and only 1 is with the Habs - Thomas Plekanec. His trades?? Joe Juneau, Andreas Dackell, and Sergei Berezin aren't my idea of top 6 forwards with size, grit, and skill (although Juneau and Dackell were great on the P.K.).

Pierre Gauthier?? Have you counted how many cups he won with Ottawa and Anaheim in his 7 years with both teams?? ZERO.

Don't even get me started on Guy Boucher. What kind of boneheaded idiot would let the best prospect that the organization has walk? You don't let go of someone like that... he was under contract here, but as always Montreal has to be the classy organization that everybody in the NHL loves. ****** THAT!!! Enough already... I'm tired of every other team dipping into our talent pool and us letting them. Why aren't we doing that to other teams???

Jacques Martin... HAS WON NOTHING. He had Jaroslav Halak carry him on his back last year, and had Carey Price do it this year. This team would never have made the playoffs if it wasn't for Carey... not your chummy Jacques.

I like Gainey... not as a GM, but he's respected, patient, and when he talks to players, they listen. You need people in your organization like that. I couldn't care less if his name was Bob Gainey, or Francois Boucher... I CARE THAT HE'S THE BEST AT WHAT HE DOES. Do you think that your GM is looking for the best person available for a position when he says this:

http://www.pagef30.com/2009/03/pierr...-montreal.html

Ronald Corey and that son of a ***** Mario Tremblay told Roy to shove it... not the Molson's.

The Molson's won more cups as owners than anybody else... Read up on your history a little.



Uncle George made millions because of Pierre Lalonde... he used to be in charge of the marketing department with Montreal. The lock-out also had a pretty big affect on hockey in this city... Not Pierre Boivin, although Pierre did wonders for the Montreal Canadien's Childrens Foundation.



And who hires the GM... Mr. President...
RAY Lalonde was hired by Boivin. Before Boivin, FXS was running the show marketing-wise. Boivin hired him because Boivin knew what he was capable of. He left (fired) when Boivin was officially out of the job.

Boivin hired the right people at all positions. Gainey was a solid hiring at the time. And Gainey was given 100% of the hockey decisions. That's how a good boss runs his things; he doesn't let micro-management thinking run the show.

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05-17-2011, 12:39 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
RAY Lalonde was hired by Boivin. Before Boivin, FXS was running the show marketing-wise. Boivin hired him because Boivin knew what he was capable of. He left (fired) when Boivin was officially out of the job.

Boivin hired the right people at all positions. Gainey was a solid hiring at the time. And Gainey was given 100% of the hockey decisions. That's how a good boss runs his things; he doesn't let micro-management thinking run the show.
Please, stop with your fact.

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05-17-2011, 12:40 PM
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Please, stop with your fact.
Can't stop smiling at the avatar.

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05-17-2011, 01:12 PM
  #36
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Last I checked JM is one of the most experienced coaches in the NHL, is fluently bilingual and is a very respectable human being. All things that are definitely required when coaching a team like the Montreal Canadiens. We tried the Carbo route, it didn't succeed. They tried the Julien route, it was a failure too. They've learned their lessons with rookie coaches. For every Boucher there is a Carbonneau.

If that isn't logical enough reason to sign the guy on as a coach, and his recent stint to the cup isn't, then what is? Would you just prefer an Anglo coach? I'd understand if Benoit Brunet was named coach of the habs, but this is a well respected and well known NHL coach we landed here. Language isn't the determining factor here so it's a moot point. If it were Brunet or some illogical choice who justspoke French and sucked at coaching, I'd understand. Just anyone who speaks French isn't necessarily a good coach, but with Martin you over look the fact that he has stats to back up that he's a quality coach in the NHL.

Is he the coach with the best record in NHL history? No. But there are 30 teams all who need quality coaching.[/QUOTE]

I am not saying that Martin is terrible, but I am saying thet being Francophone shouldn't be a prerequisite for coaching the Habs. Reality is that they wouldn't even look at anyone who didn't speak french, regardless of their track record. Martin is a good coach, but not great, and has no history of winning anything. Short term solution. Did anyone really believe that when they hired Martin that he would lead them to a cup/cup final? Really??
And there are not 30 teams that need quality coaching. About 90% of those teams are comfortable with their coaching staff, depending on their situation. What bothers me is that too many fans here are now just blindly defending what the club does, and they accept being average & mediocre. In fact, the target now is to be average, and we are happy. Lose in the first round, no problem, it could have went either way (but didn't). "There is always next year" mentality is too common. I have seen this club at it's best, and I have seen it at it's worst. I currently see an average hockey club with average coaching and average prospects. I would prefer that they aggressively pursue key players that will vault this team back into the top 5 teams that lesser teams would want to model their organizations after. Lead not follow. If you can't agree then I suggest you have never witnessed a prolonged winning organization.

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05-17-2011, 01:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by habsfan92 View Post
Last I checked JM is one of the most experienced coaches in the NHL, is fluently bilingual and is a very respectable human being. All things that are definitely required when coaching a team like the Montreal Canadiens. We tried the Carbo route, it didn't succeed. They tried the Julien route, it was a failure too. They've learned their lessons with rookie coaches. For every Boucher there is a Carbonneau.

If that isn't logical enough reason to sign the guy on as a coach, and his recent stint to the cup isn't, then what is? Would you just prefer an Anglo coach? I'd understand if Benoit Brunet was named coach of the habs, but this is a well respected and well known NHL coach we landed here. Language isn't the determining factor here so it's a moot point. If it were Brunet or some illogical choice who justspoke French and sucked at coaching, I'd understand. Just anyone who speaks French isn't necessarily a good coach, but with Martin you over look the fact that he has stats to back up that he's a quality coach in the NHL.

Is he the coach with the best record in NHL history? No. But there are 30 teams all who need quality coaching.
I am not saying that Martin is terrible, but I am saying thet being Francophone shouldn't be a prerequisite for coaching the Habs. Reality is that they wouldn't even look at anyone who didn't speak french, regardless of their track record. Martin is a good coach, but not great, and has no history of winning anything. Short term solution. Did anyone really believe that when they hired Martin that he would lead them to a cup/cup final? Really??
And there are not 30 teams that need quality coaching. About 90% of those teams are comfortable with their coaching staff, depending on their situation. What bothers me is that too many fans here are now just blindly defending what the club does, and they accept being average & mediocre. In fact, the target now is to be average, and we are happy. Lose in the first round, no problem, it could have went either way (but didn't). "There is always next year" mentality is too common. I have seen this club at it's best, and I have seen it at it's worst. I currently see an average hockey club with average coaching and average prospects. I would prefer that they aggressively pursue key players that will vault this team back into the top 5 teams that lesser teams would want to model their organizations after. Lead not follow. If you can't agree then I suggest you have never witnessed a prolonged winning organization.[/QUOTE]

But it is and it always will be. So why argue?

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05-17-2011, 02:05 PM
  #38
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QUOTE]

But it is and it always will be. So why argue?[/QUOTE]

Because that's loser talk & attitude. See Toronto Maple Leafs-maybe you should be their fan.

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05-17-2011, 03:00 PM
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I'm sorry to ask but can a mod or the posters in question clean this up? It's confusing even for me the guy who made the original post.

I almost thought for a second he was posting exactly what I said in all seriousness.

I understand you aren't saying Martin is terrible, but the point being made is nobody more proven or better was available at the time of his signing.

Even Boucher who was far from proven would have needed to be hired in place of Martin.

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05-17-2011, 05:21 PM
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Met him once in Carolina during the 2002 playoffs. He was coming down the stairs with Andre Savard. I had my Habs jersey on. I said hello and he stopped ME to chat. Very nice fella.

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05-17-2011, 06:03 PM
  #41
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Whether or not the habs succeed is not because of boivin, gainey or any coaches. The habs priority is to make as much money as they can, not win the cup. If winning the cup was that important, gomez would be gone by now. Its about assuring a spot in the playoffs and assuring that you keep making the playoffs in future years for the steady revenue. We're not that different from the leafs.

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05-17-2011, 07:02 PM
  #42
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I don't believe that Pierre Lalonde has anything to do with that...

"C'est le temps des vacan-an-ces... un temps pour s'amuser-é-é..."



Apparently, Guy Boucher and "Pierre" Lalonde are the only French speaking persons in the whole universe to be good at what they're doing, according to you...
Hahaha... My bad... I meant Ray Lalonde... lol

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05-17-2011, 07:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Unfortunately for you guys Pierre's job isn't just to help orchestrate a cup winning team. That is part of it, but it's only 1/3.

Playoff games = revenue.

Like somebody else mentioned he fixed the marketing and he fixed the revenue in terms of filling the stands. The one thing he didn't do is make us win a cup, but we've been a playoff team most years, like somebody else also mentioned in their list, he gets a C for this but an A for everything else.

Unfortunately for the fans his job isn't evaluated purely on how well the team does as a team but how well the Montreal Canadiens do as a business.

In terms of the stands being filled every night? 10/10
In terms of the team being marketed well? 10/10
In terms of the team playing playoff games? 5/10

Do you fire a guy and rag on him for doing a job 25/30? I think not.
When the Habs have a home game at the Bell Centre, I would be willing to bet that not one of the 21,000 + fans in attendance are concerned if the franchise makes a profit on that particular evening. No one is cheering the workers as they pour another profitable cup of beer. The guy in the next row over does not get a pat on the back because he ordered food and is going back for seconds.

No, the fans are there to watch the Canadiens score goals and hopefully win the game. If we wanted to cheer for profitability, it would be easier to throw away our Habs sweaters and sit at the computer as we watch our shares of Exxon Mobil go up and down in the stock market during the day.

That is why I consider Boivin a failure. Sure he did what any other executive is charged with......making a profit. But it appears that he lost sight of what the Montreal Canadiens stand for.......winning hockey.

As a president of any corporation, if one only focuses on the revenue stream without ensuring that the corporation thrives and succeeds and innovates, it will not be long that the corporation suffers.

We are a hockey team that plays games and has fans who buy tickets and merchandise. Boivin overlooked the reason why fans are there..........and it is for winning.

No wonder why the Habs have not hoisted the Cup in 18 years. I hope Geoff Molson can reverse this trend by employing savvy business people who understand that winning is equally important as profit. Only time will tell.

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05-18-2011, 11:33 AM
  #44
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Whether or not the habs succeed is not because of boivin, gainey or any coaches. The habs priority is to make as much money as they can, not win the cup. If winning the cup was that important, gomez would be gone by now. Its about assuring a spot in the playoffs and assuring that you keep making the playoffs in future years for the steady revenue. We're not that different from the leafs.
Kind of a ridiculous statement. There is no doubt hockey is now a business but you can't say the Molsons don't want to win a Cup, what family from Montreal would not want to win the Cup? And to use Gomez as an example isn't fair either. Gainey went through wholesale changes because the last group couldn't get it done so he went with proven winners as leaders to get this team over the hump, that's trying to win imo.

And yeah we are a lot different from the Leafs, we have won lots of Cups and we make the playoffs

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05-18-2011, 12:28 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by habsfan92 View Post
QUOTE]

But it is and it always will be. So why argue?
Because that's loser talk & attitude. See Toronto Maple Leafs-maybe you should be their fan.[/QUOTE]

How old are you? The last pure anglo coach this team has been Bob Berry. And even there, I'm not sure he didn't speak french. Before that, it was Al McNeil. You go through the list: there hasn't been a lot of anglo-only speaking coaches in MOntreal since Toe Blake left.

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05-18-2011, 12:33 PM
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Because that's loser talk & attitude. See Toronto Maple Leafs-maybe you should be their fan.
How old are you? The last pure anglo coach this team has been Bob Berry. And even there, I'm not sure he didn't speak french. Before that, it was Al McNeil. You go through the list: there hasn't been a lot of anglo-only speaking coaches in MOntreal since Toe Blake left.[/QUOTE]

Berry spoke French

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05-18-2011, 12:34 PM
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If you guys think this organisation isn't trying to win the Cup, you don't have a clue. They try. And for the record, outside of Mike Babcock, I don't see tons of anglo-only speaking coaches that are on top of the world right now, to be honest with you. I just don't.

When I see Dave Cameron being considered in Ottawa, I'm saying to myself that there aren't a lot of good coaches that are available right now.

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05-18-2011, 12:34 PM
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How old are you? The last pure anglo coach this team has been Bob Berry. And even there, I'm not sure he didn't speak french. Before that, it was Al McNeil. You go through the list: there hasn't been a lot of anglo-only speaking coaches in MOntreal since Toe Blake left.
Berry spoke French[/QUOTE]

Good. So there. So the last one was McNeil then, in 1971.

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05-18-2011, 12:39 PM
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The quoting system is all screwed up.

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05-18-2011, 01:02 PM
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The quoting system is all screwed up.
Not at all. Someone screwed up their quote and those who followed in the quote chain didn't fix it.

Anyway, Boivin was a good president and all.

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