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Senators sign Jakob Silfverberg; loan him back to SEL

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Old
05-29-2011, 10:44 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by koreaboy View Post
these are the kinds of issues that very often don't get reported properly. these nitpicky fine points of the CBA often get misreported, especially if the story is coming out of sweden where they are even less familiar with our CBA.

if this is a bonafide contract that we have signed this kid to, that we are paying for, and that results in him playing all year in sweden while using up a year of FA eligibility then i think it's a stupid, stupid thing to do. when you have the hammer against players you have to use it for the good of the organization. if he's good, he'll get paid soon enough. before he's played day 1 in this league, why would we be spending our money and bringing him a year closer to the time when he can leave, to stay home and play for someone else? i don't get it, and i hope that's not what's happening here.
I was always under the impression that it burns a year, but we aren't paying him. I could be wrong on both.

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05-29-2011, 10:52 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Yeah I'm actually not sure what the motivation is for us to get him signed only to loan him. Just brings him one year closer to a raise without him having played here.
This isn't necessarily that bad if we're thinking long-term with this kid. Everything else equal, that first UFA contract will be more expensive if he's one year older and has 3 years of NHL experience under his belt instead of 2.

We lose a year of ELC, but we might save even more over the length of his next contract.

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05-29-2011, 11:12 AM
  #103
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This isn't bad at all if you try to force him he may not come at all.I think they have to be a little more careful with players from Europe. The players really have alot of control when or if they want to come over.

If he wants to wait a year but is really going to come than that's awesome but I'm sure they tried to get him to come over now.

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05-29-2011, 11:17 AM
  #104
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why would it burn a year off his contract? i dont think it works like that

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05-29-2011, 11:19 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by koreaboy View Post
yes, but why would we have to SIGN him and PAY him to do that? if we don't sign him and pay him he would have been developing for another year in his own country anyways, but not on our dime.
Sweden has signed the transfer agreement... if players do not sign within two years of being drafted they re-enter the draft and you lose their rights.

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05-29-2011, 11:23 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by koreaboy View Post
these are the kinds of issues that very often don't get reported properly. these nitpicky fine points of the CBA often get misreported, especially if the story is coming out of sweden where they are even less familiar with our CBA.

if this is a bonafide contract that we have signed this kid to, that we are paying for, and that results in him playing all year in sweden while using up a year of FA eligibility then i think it's a stupid, stupid thing to do. when you have the hammer against players you have to use it for the good of the organization. if he's good, he'll get paid soon enough. before he's played day 1 in this league, why would we be spending our money and bringing him a year closer to the time when he can leave, to stay home and play for someone else? i don't get it, and i hope that's not what's happening here.
Ok, so to clear up a few things:
- His contract WON'T slide, that only applies to 18 & 19 year olds. Silfverberg is 20.
- The MOST Silfverberg can make in minor-league compensation for a SPC signed in 2011 is $70k/year.

Also, and the CBA isn't super clear on this, but it seems that within the language of the CBA (Article 9.3), the Senators will only be on the hook for Silfverberg's $70k salary if he plays hockey in either the AHL or the ECHL. If he plays anywhere else, in this case the SEL, he doesn't see a dime.

So basically, it seems as though we're not on the hook for anything other than Silfverberg's signing bonus.

Seems to me like it's a GREAT move. We lock up a guy, show him the same signing bonus we would have had to give him anyways, and allow him to spend a year developing in a better league (for his needs, anyways) without paying him a penny in actual salary.

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05-29-2011, 11:34 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koreaboy View Post
when you have the hammer against players you have to use it for the good of the organization. if he's good, he'll get paid soon enough.
Also, I HATE this line of thinking.

I understand it, but it almost ALWAYS backfires. You show players some respect when they're developing, they'll show you some respect when it comes time for their big contract. Why do you think teams like Detroit always get players to take "home-town" discounts? Because the players have grown up in that organization are shown a TREMENDOUS amount of respect, and return the favor later in their careers. They don't want to go anywhere else because they genuinely feel part of a family on teams that go out of their way to treat them like people, not assets.

If you want to see the end result of treating a player like crap during his ELC years, look at pre '09 Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix... and many others.
By "Putting the hammer" to them during contract negotiations, you can pretty much kiss them goodbye the second they hit UFA eligibility.

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05-29-2011, 11:55 AM
  #108
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It burns a year of his ELC but neither Slifverberg or Rundblad get to UFA status any quicker by signing their contracts now. The only way you become a UFA before the age of 27 is if you play in the NHL at the age of 18 or 19. It has nothing to do with when you sign your first contract.

For example, Erik Karlsson played his rookie NHL season at the age of 19 so he will be eligible to be a UFA at the age of 26 instead of 27. Because Silfverberg is already 20, no matter when he starts his NHL career, he will be eligible to be a UFA at 27.

And as Fuhr mentioned, because of the transfer agreement between the NHL and the Swedish federation that now exists, drafted players need to be signed within 2 years of being drafted otherwise the NHL team loses their rights. Because Silfverberg was drafted 2 years ago, the Sens needed to sign him this offseason regardless.

Finally, the language is ambiguous but it's seems pretty clear that when a player is "loaned" to a European club, there is a negotiation between the NHL team and the European club as to how much of the salary the European club will pay. I would imagine it is a large percentage of it.

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05-29-2011, 12:50 PM
  #109
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I've been waiting for this for awhile now.

The one night where I have a slumber party with my friends, Binghamton wins and we sign Silfverberg.

He's our #1 Forward Prospect right now.

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05-29-2011, 01:06 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Also, I HATE this line of thinking.

I understand it, but it almost ALWAYS backfires. You show players some respect when they're developing, they'll show you some respect when it comes time for their big contract. Why do you think teams like Detroit always get players to take "home-town" discounts? Because the players have grown up in that organization are shown a TREMENDOUS amount of respect, and return the favor later in their careers. They don't want to go anywhere else because they genuinely feel part of a family on teams that go out of their way to treat them like people, not assets.

If you want to see the end result of treating a player like crap during his ELC years, look at pre '09 Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix... and many others.
By "Putting the hammer" to them during contract negotiations, you can pretty much kiss them goodbye the second they hit UFA eligibility.
This is the difference between sens fans and leafs/oilers fans.
Keep it up

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05-29-2011, 01:12 PM
  #111
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It'll help him come in and get a spot next year at training camp. I'm disappointed, but he should be a dominant player this year in the SEL and hopefully transfer that confidence to NA.

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05-29-2011, 01:12 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Also, I HATE this line of thinking.

I understand it, but it almost ALWAYS backfires. You show players some respect when they're developing, they'll show you some respect when it comes time for their big contract. Why do you think teams like Detroit always get players to take "home-town" discounts? Because the players have grown up in that organization are shown a TREMENDOUS amount of respect, and return the favor later in their careers. They don't want to go anywhere else because they genuinely feel part of a family on teams that go out of their way to treat them like people, not assets.

If you want to see the end result of treating a player like crap during his ELC years, look at pre '09 Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix... and many others.
By "Putting the hammer" to them during contract negotiations, you can pretty much kiss them goodbye the second they hit UFA eligibility.
Well said. The Wings have built something so difficult to break over years of understanding that the players under their control aren't robots. It's pretty obvious Silfverberg not feeling he's ready means he can't be certain he will jump right into the NHL....if he doesn't want to go to Binghamton, so be it.

All this ruining development type stuff is always so overblown. He may emerge as one of the SELs top forwards next year...that would be an extremely encouraging development.

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05-29-2011, 01:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Well said. The Wings have built something so difficult to break over years of understanding that the players under their control aren't robots. It's pretty obvious Silfverberg not feeling he's ready means he can't be certain he will jump right into the NHL....if he doesn't want to go to Binghamton, so be it.

All this ruining development type stuff is always so overblown. He may emerge as one of the SELs top forwards next year...that would be an extremely encouraging development.
Yah, think of how nuts we will go if Silfverberg put up a Rundblad-type season next year.

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05-29-2011, 02:10 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Well said. The Wings have built something so difficult to break over years of understanding that the players under their control aren't robots. It's pretty obvious Silfverberg not feeling he's ready means he can't be certain he will jump right into the NHL....if he doesn't want to go to Binghamton, so be it.

All this ruining development type stuff is always so overblown. He may emerge as one of the SELs top forwards next year...that would be an extremely encouraging development.
This. If he's not ready for the NHL yet, that's fine. I'd rather him develop, get physically ready, and emerge as a dominant scorer in a couple years.

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05-29-2011, 02:35 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
This isn't bad at all if you try to force him he may not come at all.I think they have to be a little more careful with players from Europe. The players really have alot of control when or if they want to come over.

If he wants to wait a year but is really going to come than that's awesome but I'm sure they tried to get him to come over now.
I secretly wanted Silfverberg to come to Ottawa, live in Alfie's basement, and learn from the captain this season. Alfie would have been a tremendous mentor for him. Alfie may not even play the following season (his last year on the contract).

I understand if Silfverberg wants another season in the SEL. He knows about his current development path more than us, and if he needs an extra year before he is confident of bringing his game to the NHL, then so be it.

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05-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #116
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For example, Erik Karlsson played his rookie NHL season at the age of 19 so he will be eligible to be a UFA at the age of 26 instead of 27. Because Silfverberg is already 20, no matter when he starts his NHL career, he will be eligible to be a UFA at 27.
Theoretically yes, but there is an impending CBA to be dealt with. Let's wait and see how things are settled after that. If the owners are looking to cut salary somewhere, the players will be looking for lower UFA status.

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05-29-2011, 03:10 PM
  #117
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I like that the organization is treating its prospects with respect. No point in forcing him to come over when he doesn't want to.

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05-29-2011, 03:41 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
Theoretically yes, but there is an impending CBA to be dealt with. Let's wait and see how things are settled after that. If the owners are looking to cut salary somewhere, the players will be looking for lower UFA status.
I suppose anything's possible but I was simply responding to the claim that signing Silfverberg now would somehow mean that he would become a UFA a year sooner which is not true under the existing rules.

It's pretty much impossible to discuss future CBA negotiations and what their outcomes may or may not be so I have no idea how any of that would factor into contract decisions being made now.

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05-29-2011, 03:46 PM
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Oh no a year off his ECL, I would rather I take a chance of him breaking out as a star goal scorer in a year then hinder his development and ending up with another bottom 6 forward that won't even get payed that much.

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05-29-2011, 03:50 PM
  #120
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Hooray, we got him! I am perfectly fine with him staying in Sweden. Dude needs to develop
Quote:
Originally Posted by armani View Post
I secretly wanted Silfverberg to come to Ottawa, live in Alfie's basement, and learn from the captain this season. Alfie would have been a tremendous mentor for him. Alfie may not even play the following season (his last year on the contract).

I understand if Silfverberg wants another season in the SEL. He knows about his current development path more than us, and if he needs an extra year before he is confident of bringing his game to the NHL, then so be it.
Spezza and Phillips can be mentors easily. It's all good

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05-29-2011, 09:33 PM
  #121
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Great, at least he signed.

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05-29-2011, 10:15 PM
  #122
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It's nice to hear he's signed. I don't mind that he wants to stay in Sweden, he's only 20 years old...and if he's not ready to come to NA then I don't see why he has too. I hope he has a break out year like David Rundblad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Also, I HATE this line of thinking.

I understand it, but it almost ALWAYS backfires. You show players some respect when they're developing, they'll show you some respect when it comes time for their big contract. Why do you think teams like Detroit always get players to take "home-town" discounts? Because the players have grown up in that organization are shown a TREMENDOUS amount of respect, and return the favor later in their careers. They don't want to go anywhere else because they genuinely feel part of a family on teams that go out of their way to treat them like people, not assets.

If you want to see the end result of treating a player like crap during his ELC years, look at pre '09 Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix... and many others.
By "Putting the hammer" to them during contract negotiations, you can pretty much kiss them goodbye the second they hit UFA eligibility.
great post, I agree.

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Old
05-29-2011, 10:31 PM
  #123
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It's a small price to pay, imo. I'm not worried about this at all.

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05-29-2011, 10:55 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by armani View Post
I secretly wanted Silfverberg to come to Ottawa, live in Alfie's basement, and learn from the captain this season. Alfie would have been a tremendous mentor for him. Alfie may not even play the following season (his last year on the contract).

I understand if Silfverberg wants another season in the SEL. He knows about his current development path more than us, and if he needs an extra year before he is confident of bringing his game to the NHL, then so be it.
I believe alfredsson will play out his contract if he can unless injuries have caught up, which we would then put him on LTIR(like rathje in philly). No way does he just retire leaving ottawa on the hook for 5 million of cap space. That's my opinion. I don't think he would screw ottawa like that. He would either play or go along with the long term IR plan.

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05-29-2011, 11:02 PM
  #125
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I am disappointed in all of you. I fully expected some Silver Surfer manips

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