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4th liners the Rangers should now target

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Old
05-24-2011, 03:06 PM
  #251
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Cally and MDZ both play physical. You don't need size to be physical, look at last year's Boyle.

Guys like Boyle, Anisimov, Callahan, Dubinsky, hell even Prust drive the net hard. I agree with you that i'd love to replace guys like EC with a big boy who can play hockey, but right now we have plenty of guys who can bang bodies and nobody except Gabby who can score goals.

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05-24-2011, 03:08 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
probability?

i know a nearly 100% home-grown team is a common pipe dream but realisticly it doesnt work out that way
ok, if half of those guy don't work out then we are in even bigger trouble.

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05-24-2011, 03:10 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
ok, if half of those guy don't work out then we are in even bigger trouble.
No we're not. They're a bunch of mid-level prospects, and most of time, mid-level prospects fail more so than they succeed. We'd be in trouble if players like Thomas, Kreider, McIlrath, or Zuccarello didn't succeed. Although I consider Hagelin in our group of top prospects as of now.

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05-24-2011, 03:56 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
No we're not. They're a bunch of mid-level prospects, and most of time, mid-level prospects fail more so than they succeed. We'd be in trouble if players like Thomas, Kreider, McIlrath, or Zuccarello didn't succeed. Although I consider Hagelin in our group of top prospects as of now.
So, we are giving contracts to guys who are just taking up space?

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05-24-2011, 04:03 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
So, we are giving contracts to guys who are just taking up space?
sure thing

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05-24-2011, 08:12 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
No we're not. They're a bunch of mid-level prospects, and most of time, mid-level prospects fail more so than they succeed. We'd be in trouble if players like Thomas, Kreider, McIlrath, or Zuccarello didn't succeed. Although I consider Hagelin in our group of top prospects as of now.
I dont think I have much stock in Zuc's. If he works out GREAT. But he wasnt a draft pick of ours. We just signed him. So its not a big deal if he fails or makes it. Obviously I MUCH RATHER he makes it.

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05-24-2011, 08:39 PM
  #257
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Back to the original topic:

I still would VERY much like for Sather to sign a 4th line LW or C to play with Prust and Boyle. I want a 4th line that is capable of changing the momentum and all have the ability to drop the gloves.

Players I would like to see brought in for that 4th line spot:

John Madden - 1 year @ 1 million dollars
-Great face-off guy with a TON of playoff experience. He is a superb penalty killer and a great shut-down forward. He is 37 but I dont think 20-25 points is out of the question.

Zenon Konopka - 2 years @ 1 million/year
- One of the best face-off men in the entire league, Zenon is a warrior and it shows in face-offs and his penalty killing. He will block shots and hit everything that moves. He mucks it up in the corners and will go hard to the net and fight practically anyone. He would be the ideal candidate to upgrade both the face-off circle AND the toughness on this team.The people who love Prust would love Konopka.

Mike Rupp - 2 years @ .85 million/season
- Rupp is a heavyweight who has some skills. He is good at using his size down low and positioning himself in front of the net. He is a good skater for his size and can fight anyone, although he is no where near the top-10 for heavyweights in the league. He would be a VERY good addition to a 4th line that is already large with Boyle. It would give teams fits trying to battle down low with both Boyle and Rupp.

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05-25-2011, 12:59 AM
  #258
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Of those three the only one I'd want is Rupp.

Hate Madden from his time with the Devils certainly but most important he doesn't hit, he just grinds, his speed is mostly vanished, and he never had hands or much to begin with. He's just another stick check Sally that goes up and down the wing...not one the team needs.

Konopka I still hold is too penalty prone to be an asset, it's not about getting a fighter, it's about getting a guy to round out the Boyle/Prust/??? line who can grind, score, and fight if need be.

Rupp fits the bill, and I've always liked him as a player (and that was BEFORE he scored that damned hat trick), but I don't know if he can be had for .85M. If he can, the money for that might have to come from buying out Avery.

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05-25-2011, 08:24 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Back to the original topic:

I still would VERY much like for Sather to sign a 4th line LW or C to play with Prust and Boyle. I want a 4th line that is capable of changing the momentum and all have the ability to drop the gloves.

Players I would like to see brought in for that 4th line spot:

John Madden - 1 year @ 1 million dollars
-Great face-off guy with a TON of playoff experience. He is a superb penalty killer and a great shut-down forward. He is 37 but I dont think 20-25 points is out of the question.

Zenon Konopka - 2 years @ 1 million/year
- One of the best face-off men in the entire league, Zenon is a warrior and it shows in face-offs and his penalty killing. He will block shots and hit everything that moves. He mucks it up in the corners and will go hard to the net and fight practically anyone. He would be the ideal candidate to upgrade both the face-off circle AND the toughness on this team.The people who love Prust would love Konopka.

Mike Rupp - 2 years @ .85 million/season
- Rupp is a heavyweight who has some skills. He is good at using his size down low and positioning himself in front of the net. He is a good skater for his size and can fight anyone, although he is no where near the top-10 for heavyweights in the league. He would be a VERY good addition to a 4th line that is already large with Boyle. It would give teams fits trying to battle down low with both Boyle and Rupp.
Is Madden really a 4th line player? Always saw him as more of a shutdown player or someone that shodows other teams star players.

I agree with your idea of a 4th line. I want to see players with the ability to make as much noise as they can. Momentum changing is key, and physical players are a must. However, I gotta say...I don't think Brian Boyle is a 4th line player. I actually want to see Brian Boyle up on the RW with Stepan centering him. And as much as Prust and Boyle are excellent together, im thinking that Boyle could make the transition here and really give opposing clubs a hard time as he has shown he can play physical, and he can snipe goals. Plus with a big body like that out there it could give Stepan a little more room on the ice, but thats Just a thought...

Back to 4.

Prust imo is perfect and theres anothe rcouple of players I would love to see there.
1) Tootoo- Not avail via free agency, but could be available in a trade. He fits the bill.
2) Bissionette- not avail but certainly tradeable

Lastly I would love to see an X factor there. Maybe scale back on the physical side and add a player that can fly under the radar a little...But also hurt the opposition with his speed. Maybe insert Kreider here?


Last edited by Lion Hound: 05-25-2011 at 11:33 AM.
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05-25-2011, 11:25 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
So, we are giving contracts to guys who are just taking up space?
In some cases yes...there are guys who have been career AHL'ers, you can't just throw a bunch of kids out there some consideration is giving to winning even in a developmental league...how do you think you find a guy like Girardi? You sign undrafted guys and give them a shot in the AHL more guys like Girardi fail to make it to the bigs...but how do you think these low round guys make it to the NHL?

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05-25-2011, 11:41 AM
  #261
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Madden makes sense to me if Boyle moves to the wing. Good Pker and likely would want to come back to the area. If 1 million for 1 yr sure

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05-25-2011, 11:44 AM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Is Madden really a 4th line player? Always saw him as more of a shutdown player or someone that shodows other teams star players.

I agree with your idea of a 4th line. I want to see players with the ability to make as much noise as they can. Momentum changing is key, and physical players are a must. However, I gotta say...I don't think Brian Boyle is a 4th line player. I actually want to see Brian Boyle up on the RW with Stepan centering him. And as much as Prust and Boyle are excellent together, im thinking that Boyle could make the transition here and really give opposing clubs a hard time as he has shown he can play physical, and he can snipe goals. Plus with a big body like that out there it could give Stepan a little more room on the ice, but thats Just a thought...

Back to 4.

Prust imo is perfect and theres anothe rcouple of players I would love to see there.
1) Tootoo- Not avail via free agency, but could be available in a trade. He fits the bill.
2) Bissionette- not avail but certainly tradeable

Lastly I would love to see an X factor there. Maybe scale back on the physical side and add a player that can fly under the radar a little...But also hurt the opposition with his speed. Maybe insert Kreider here?
I like Tootoo as well. I think he would be a great 4th line player for this team. Not sure if Nashville would move him.

I would also love to insert Maxim Lapierre there as well. Tough, hard-nosed grinder with some skills and playoff experience.

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05-25-2011, 11:49 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
So, we are giving contracts to guys who are just taking up space?
pretty much. It's a numbers game.

read the article below.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm

it breaks down draft picks in the 90's (b/c it can be hard to evaluate recent drafts considering players still in development, etc.)

Some highlights:

Out of 2,600 players drafted from 1990-1999, 494 have appeared in 200+ NHL games (what they're defining as "career" players in the article) about 19%

1st rounders had a 63% chance of becoming "career players"
2nd rounders that drops to 25%
3rd round and beyond about 12%

even if we assume scouting has improved and that more young players get shots due to the salary cap, they still need to stick around, so i'm not sure those numbers would be bumped up all that much.

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05-25-2011, 12:20 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I like Tootoo as well. I think he would be a great 4th line player for this team. Not sure if Nashville would move him.

I would also love to insert Maxim Lapierre there as well. Tough, hard-nosed grinder with some skills and playoff experience.
Someone referred to Lapierre as barely an NHL'er yesterday when I said he brings havoc to the oppossing team

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05-25-2011, 01:37 PM
  #265
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Sorry been a away a few days in hospital for a bit. Weise did score vs phillie and it was called back but he played a ton that game and beat Carcillios A@@ also. I like him on the 4th line. To the guys making the poit about the Bruins and Van being so much bigger and meaner that my point we have scrappy but not size. We need to get bigger in spots 1-13 upfront.

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05-25-2011, 02:13 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Sorry been a away a few days in hospital for a bit. Weise did score vs phillie and it was called back but he played a ton that game and beat Carcillios A@@ also. I like him on the 4th line. To the guys making the poit about the Bruins and Van being so much bigger and meaner that my point we have scrappy but not size. We need to get bigger in spots 1-13 upfront.
No he didn't. He doesn't have an NHL point, you are wrong.

And I hope you're well, don't wanna fellow board member in the hospital. They give me the chills.

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05-25-2011, 02:16 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Sorry been a away a few days in hospital for a bit. Weise did score vs phillie and it was called back but he played a ton that game and beat Carcillios A@@ also. I like him on the 4th line. To the guys making the poit about the Bruins and Van being so much bigger and meaner that my point we have scrappy but not size. We need to get bigger in spots 1-13 upfront.
Yeah but the fact is that he doesn't have an official NHL point. And it's not like he played like he did in that Philly game the rest of his time here, if he did I would be ecstatic. He impressed me very much so in the Philly game. But after that his play tapered off significantly and I don't think he's ready for NHL duty right now.

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05-25-2011, 02:17 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Sorry been a away a few days in hospital for a bit. Weise did score vs phillie and it was called back but he played a ton that game and beat Carcillios A@@ also. I like him on the 4th line. To the guys making the poit about the Bruins and Van being so much bigger and meaner that my point we have scrappy but not size. We need to get bigger in spots 1-13 upfront.
Dude, we don't need size we are scrappy enough...we need more european guys who show up every 5 or so games...or we need to let Christensen play 70 games.

I have been watching the playoffs and we are so far away from winning a cup.

Clark has to draft all guys with size and skill this draft again.

It has to start with Mark McNeill & Joel Edmundson with the 1st two picks and then you can grab a scorer with the 2nd, 2nd rd pick.

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05-25-2011, 02:18 PM
  #269
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Dude, we don't need size we are scrappy enough...we need more european guys who show up every 5 or so games...or we need to let Christensen play 70 games.

I have been watching the playoffs and we are so far away from winning a cup.

Clark has to draft all guys with size and skill this draft again.

It has to start with Mark McNeill & Joel Edmundson with the 1st two picks and then you can grab a scorer with the 2nd, 2nd rd pick.
We are far from winning a cup.

Its about 99% because we lack top end talent, and about 1% because we lack size.

Priorities and perspective goes to die in this thread, I guess.

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05-25-2011, 02:19 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
So, we are giving contracts to guys who are just taking up space?
In that case I'd like a contract. I take up more physical space than most of the Rangers, with less talent than all of them [money back guarantee]. Sign me up

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05-25-2011, 02:33 PM
  #271
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We are far from winning a cup.

Its about 99% because we lack top end talent, and about 1% because we lack size.

Priorities and perspective goes to die in this thread, I guess.
I think McNeill has plenty of talent.

He also provides intangibles.

I don't want to draft a guy with a wicked wrist shot but doesn't show up to the rink every night....how is that for a perspective.

Let's draft Tomas Jurco:

His puckhandling skills border on the obscene. If there was some kind of unearthly substance that had a magnetic effect on rubber, we'd think that Jurco was the one who discovered it. He can dangle with the absolute best of them....He has a quick burst and some deceptive speed with the agility to turn defenders and make opponents look silly.....Jurco's defensive game is subpar and his compete levels uneven. He scored 31 goals on a stacked team, but was streaky with long stretches of unproductive play......Medium risk player but high reward if he can raise the consistency. He's going to go higher than where we have him because of the sick hands and upside.

I like to stay away from guys like that...i don't care how much talent they have.

I have read time and time again how the Rangers have to go for the most talented guy regardless of their desire. I didn't know the Rangers could afford that kind of luxury.

But that's just me...I like guys who give it their all...not skate around and float...alla Kovy, Zherdev

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05-25-2011, 02:37 PM
  #272
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McNeil is a fine pick for where the Rangers are picking in this draft, because at that point, most of the highly talented players are question marks.

But, you don't take Couturier over RNH because of his size. Skill trumps size every time. You have to get the right mix, or a player with skill that has the heart of a 6'5 player. Like Grimaldi.

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05-25-2011, 02:42 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
McNeil is a fine pick for where the Rangers are picking in this draft, because at that point, most of the highly talented players are question marks.

But, you don't take Couturier over RNH because of his size. Skill trumps size every time. You have to get the right mix, or a player with skill that has the heart of a 6'5 player. Like Grimaldi.
Grimaldi would not be a smart pick for us....we can't hide his 5'6 165 frame in our current lineup.

He would be a great pick for the Bruins, San Jose or a team that could put him on a line with some beef.

Grimaldi would be another Zucc on our team.

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05-25-2011, 02:47 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Grimaldi would not be a smart pick for us....we can't hide his 5'6 165 frame in our current lineup.

He would be a great pick for the Bruins, San Jose or a team that could put him on a line with some beef.

Grimaldi would be another Zucc on our team.
Size doesn't necessarily matter as long as you don't let it affect your way of thinking. Players like Dawes...yeah, you don't take him because of his size. If he played bigger, he could be a solid 2nd liner, but he's extremely soft, and stays in perimeter areas, which is why he's now in the AHL. But, with guys like St. Louis and Roy...it just doesn't matter. They don't let their size get in the way of their game, just like Grimaldi or Zuccarello. They'll batter in the corners, crease, and on the boards, because they're fearless players. Fearlessness and skill is probably the best combo in hockey. Having size is a bonus, it's not necessary.

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05-25-2011, 02:55 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
Size doesn't necessarily matter as long as you don't let it affect your way of thinking. Players like Dawes...yeah, you don't take him because of his size. If he played bigger, he could be a solid 2nd liner, but he's extremely soft, and stays in perimeter areas, which is why he's now in the AHL. But, with guys like St. Louis and Roy...it just doesn't matter. They don't let their size get in the way of their game, just like Grimaldi or Zuccarello. They'll batter in the corners, crease, and on the boards, because they're fearless players. Fearlessness and skill is probably the best combo in hockey. Having size is a bonus, it's not necessary.
Fair enough, St.Louis is the only mite on Tampa.

If we draft Grimaldi, we could possiby have him, Zucc, Bourque and Thomas, granted if half of them make it because the math says that only 1 of the 4 would make it, right.

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