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4th liners the Rangers should now target

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Old
05-21-2011, 01:27 PM
  #176
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Because we don't suck enough to get a player as good as Brad Richards.
correct me if i am wrong but wasn't Brad Richards a third round pick?

Wasn't Kessler and Perry and a slew of others late first round picks?

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05-21-2011, 01:31 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
correct me if i am wrong but wasn't Brad Richards a third round pick?

Wasn't Kessler and Perry and a slew of others late first round picks?
Correct me if i'm wrong but I already countered that argument. Hank was a late round pick. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. Scouting is better now. Elite players like Brad Richards RARELY go past the 1st round, and much more rarely make it past the second. Then, the chance of picking one of those players is so miniscule it's stupid to hope to build a winning franchise like that.

Don't bother using the 03 draft because it's obvious that was a special draft and we're one of the only teams that blew it.

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05-21-2011, 01:39 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong but I already countered that argument. Hank was a late round pick. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. Scouting is better now. Elite players like Brad Richards RARELY go past the 1st round, and much more rarely make it past the second. Then, the chance of picking one of those players is so miniscule it's stupid to hope to build a winning franchise like that.

Don't bother using the 03 draft because it's obvious that was a special draft and we're one of the only teams that blew it.
How do you know that? Scouting has gotten better, yes, but I seriously doubt that late round steals will be a thing of the past.

You haven't mentioned anything to counter that argument. How about some evidence?

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05-21-2011, 01:43 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
How do you know that? Scouting has gotten better, yes, but I seriously doubt that late round steals will be a thing of the past.

You haven't mentioned anything to counter that argument. How about some evidence?
There will always be late round steals. We got one in Callahan.

But are you kidding me? You really think hoping for a late round steal is a viable option? Nobody has countered my argument that it's stupid to try and build a winning franchise on late round steals. I'm not comfortable hoping we draft the next Brad Richards in the 3rd round of any upcoming draft.

How do I know elite players rarely go past the first and second round? Look at ANY draft past 2003 and tell me you feel comfortable getting a player like Brad Richards past the second round. Hell, even in 2002 the only player even comparable is Duncan Keith in the late second.

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05-21-2011, 01:45 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There will always be late round steals. We got one in Callahan.

But are you kidding me? You really think hoping for a late round steal is a viable option? Nobody has countered my argument that it's stupid to try and build a winning franchise on late round steals. I'm not comfortable hoping we draft the next Brad Richards in the 3rd round of any upcoming draft.

How do I know elite players rarely go past the first and second round? Look at ANY draft past 2003 and tell me you feel comfortable getting a player like Brad Richards past the second round. Hell, even in 2002 the only player even comparable is Duncan Keith in the late second.
Paul Stastny was a 2nd round pick, so was James Neal.

If you have the right scouts..you will find talent.

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05-21-2011, 01:46 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Paul Stastny was a 2nd round pick, so was James Neal.

If you have the right scouts..you will find talent.
James Neal isn't comparable to Brad Richards at all and is barely a franchise player. I agree with you you can get GOOD players in the later rounds. Dubi, Cally, Arty, etc. I'm saying you're not going to get a player like Brad with any consistency that makes it a good option for a team looking for that player.

Besides that, Stastny and Lucic are only two guys out of hundreds. If anything that helps prove my point.

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05-21-2011, 01:54 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
James Neal isn't comparable to Brad Richards at all and is barely a franchise player. I agree with you you can get GOOD players in the later rounds. Dubi, Cally, Arty, etc. I'm saying you're not going to get a player like Brad with any consistency that makes it a good option for a team looking for that player.

Besides that, Stastny and Lucic are only two guys out of hundreds. If anything that helps prove my point.
I agree drafting is very tricky but some teams just know how to spot talent.

Look @ Nashville, no money but they always field a very competitive team because they know talent.

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05-21-2011, 03:42 PM
  #183
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Kundratek..
Not sure if he is a physical force but last season someone posted a vid of him absolutely beating the snot out of someone..He absolutely threw down..Whats the scouting report on him? Does he hit and play mean?




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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I understand Mara was a trooper for us but I rather just give it to Valentenko if he comes into camp strong. He is compared to Bryan Marchment so that must be tough, lol,,,,,,,I believe Ranger boy mentioned he is under contract for $850,000 two way deal since he ws in the KHL and did'nt fullfil his contract with Montreal. ,,,,,, Kundratek may push too but I don't think he's a physical force

Would most be ok with a young group of:
Staal, Girardi, McDonaugh ,Sauer, Del Zotto, Valenteknko? Then spare of Gilroy on the cheap or Eminger cheap? Same group I know but if DZ can provide offense it should be solid

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05-21-2011, 03:49 PM
  #184
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Nice read on Kundratek




http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=531402

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05-21-2011, 04:03 PM
  #185
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I like this kid a lot, always have...he plays a nice game and will fight and I remember reading he used to take on guys who he had no business fighting.

I say let him, Tank, Gilroy and MDZ fight for the last two spots..if Gilroy does make it you trade him for whatever you can get.

I think in the next 2 years...if these kids pan out and I believer 3 of the 4 will play important roles in their future...Gilroy with the least upside...that makes Giradi expendable and who would fetch the greatest return.

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05-21-2011, 05:44 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
Thanks..
The few good guys available will cost too much..The best of the rest..Maybe Mara for 1 year? Only 31 and would immediatley be our toughest D-Man..
Whaaat? Mara's not even very good at hitting. Our Top 4 already plays a more effective physical game then Mara.

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05-21-2011, 06:49 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Last thing I'm worried about.

Lets get some goal scorers.
Duhhh, yeah.

Who the hell would want Boulton? We've had enough guys who love to fight but lose.

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05-21-2011, 07:42 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
I agree. I may have said it a bunch of time on other threads that I thought Chris Stewart would be a great fit for the Rangers.
He fights anyone.
Provides the team with a 25-30 goal scorer (maybe more in the future and he gets most on the power play).
Callahan wouldn't be the only right handed shot we'd have on the wing.
The Rangers could have spiced up the deal if they're getting Shattenkirk included.
Stewart is only 23, and Shattenkirk is 22.
Shattenkirk gives the Rangers a potential dynamite 1-2 punch along with DZ on the PP (I believe Shattenkirk is a righty. It'll be just like the old days when we had Zubov and Leetch ).

We would have had to pay as JD gave up E. Johnson in the deal but I thought that Sather should have at least explored the opportunity and both teams would have flip flopped the players to the other conference as well.

Any way that's dead but, maybe something like that comes up again...
Not unless Sather has a master plan already set (which he probably does). He could surprise us all and get no one.
I love Stewart and thought it was a HUGE mistake for the Avs to let him and Shattenkirk go. But I just don't see how the Rangers could land him. Stewart has Iginla potential.

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05-21-2011, 07:46 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
I love Stewart and thought it was a HUGE mistake for the Avs to let him and Shattenkirk go. But I just don't see how the Rangers could land him. Stewart has Iginla potential.
I love Chris Stewart...but are we comparing them because they're both black? I say Stewart can be a great power forward, but saying he can be like Iggy is a little off base IMO.

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05-21-2011, 07:52 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Shelley for Drury. Maybe Drury and Briere can find some of their old chemistry.
ha...I like the way you think. Frees up more cap space that way than buying him out

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05-21-2011, 07:58 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I'm fine with waiting for Kreider and company to try to earn the spot. Till they do I don't believe Wolski should be removed unless a better option comes up that can help NOW.

If Wolski was one of a few players who struggled I could see the hate, but the whole team didn't score. Why is he being singled out and not others? Because of his cap hit? Christ remove Drury if we are talking about bad cap hits.
I think most (myself included) accept it as extremely likely that Drury will be bought out to reduce his cap hit by ~3m, so it's enough of a certainty there's no point in discussing it.

Everyone agrees that if Drury is bought out, RFA's signed (with the possible exception of Gilroy), there's money left for Brad Richards and potentially one other player. That one player might be pretty good if Wolski were bought out since as a 25 year old his buyout cap hit is mere chump change compared to what he's making.

Someone who plays a more involved game would be the target. Some say a 4th liner, others give the spot to a kid, I say try and get a scoring winger or make a pass at Jagr on a one year deal.

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05-21-2011, 08:14 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I love Chris Stewart...but are we comparing them because they're both black? I say Stewart can be a great power forward, but saying he can be like Iggy is a little off base IMO.
No...they both play a power game, will drop the gloves and fight (and handle themselves well) when they need to, have good shots, are very big, and are right handed shots who play the wing.

He has Iginla potential. Whether he gets there or not is anyone's guess, but regardless he's still going to be a very good player.

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05-21-2011, 08:17 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There will always be late round steals. We got one in Callahan.

But are you kidding me? You really think hoping for a late round steal is a viable option? Nobody has countered my argument that it's stupid to try and build a winning franchise on late round steals. I'm not comfortable hoping we draft the next Brad Richards in the 3rd round of any upcoming draft.

How do I know elite players rarely go past the first and second round? Look at ANY draft past 2003 and tell me you feel comfortable getting a player like Brad Richards past the second round. Hell, even in 2002 the only player even comparable is Duncan Keith in the late second.
Exactly. If our scouts picked up on a late round steal and knew it was a steal before the draft, odds are one of the other teams would have done their homework too.

Outsmarting 30 teams in terms of scouting is not easy to do. Every once in a while a diamond in the rough comes along, but it's not a good draft strategy to go around hoping for one...

...although that STILL would have been a better strategy than draffing Jessiman

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05-21-2011, 08:21 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
here is the list: I have seen people mention Erskine but he is signed

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...D&fa_type_id=2

Stopped at a certain pt, Hal Gil may make sense for a yr?
Want no part of "Skillsie Gillsie". Guy is slow as molasses, can't skate, and has no offensive skills. If someone stands still or moves slowly, he will hit them VERY hard, but there's not much that distinguishes him from Marek Malik except the fact that Malik was a better puckhandler (that's saying something).

To the person who said Mara, he looks finished the way he's played the last 2 years.

The guy I like on that list is James Wisniewski...plays with a real mean streak, hits, fights, and has a hell of a right handed slap shot that he actually uses (hey > Rozsival!) which would go great on our power play to the left of Brad Richards. Babchuk is an alternative...he has the shot but he doesn't have the mean streak Wisniewski does.

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05-21-2011, 08:29 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
Want no part of "Skillsie Gillsie". Guy is slow as molasses, can't skate, and has no offensive skills. If someone stands still or moves slowly, he will hit them VERY hard, but there's not much that distinguishes him from Marek Malik except the fact that Malik was a better puckhandler (that's saying something).

To the person who said Mara, he looks finished the way he's played the last 2 years.

The guy I like on that list is James Wisniewski...plays with a real mean streak, hits, fights, and has a hell of a right handed slap shot that he actually uses (hey > Rozsival!) which would go great on our power play to the left of Brad Richards. Babchuk is an alternative...he has the shot but he doesn't have the mean streak Wisniewski does.
The problem with Wiz is that this was his contract year so he's probably going to get paid a ton of money for a great year that he won't be able to live up to again, atleast imo.

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05-22-2011, 01:34 AM
  #196
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Evgeny Artyukhin - He played for Torts in Tampa, he's 6-5 255lbs, he's skates like the wind, he can play all 3 forward positions, and he loves to run people over. He made a years worth of highlight real hits in one short tournament during the WC. The only thing I don't know is his contractual status over in the KHL.

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05-22-2011, 01:36 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
Kundratek..
Not sure if he is a physical force but last season someone posted a vid of him absolutely beating the snot out of someone..He absolutely threw down..Whats the scouting report on him? Does he hit and play mean?
Valentenko is the hard hitter, Kundratek is more of the solid all round defender, not to much of the rugged type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Wolski to Dallas for Fristic, get it done, we can use a mean defensive dman till McIlrath is 100 percent ready.
We should promote Valentenko way before we trade for Fistric. I used to think Fistric had potential, now we have way better options in house.

http://theahl.com/valentenko-a-prime...locker-p170815


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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
What about leading the league in hits?

For those who want Konopka, he had the league's highest PIM/G ratio at 3.75. http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...g/seasontype/2 No one else was close. That's all this team needs is more time spent on the pk... 10 game misconducts! Nice. Sounds like a Torts (or any coach) type guy. Gillies was second with 3. I think I'll pass on Konopka. And how far did the Islanders get with these 2 throwbacks with no skill?
And what about his FO%? The Rangers suffer terribly with face offs. Kenopka is in the top5 in the league. He dominates at almost 60% for 2 years in a row. Sure he's got lots of PIMs but that's part of his coach's doing. If his coach doesn't allow him to go out and instigate so many fights, then he doesn't get the instigator and doesn't get the 10 minute misconduct.

I think hands down R2 is the better option but Kenopka would be a nice backup if we can't get R2.


Last edited by vipernsx: 05-22-2011 at 02:02 AM.
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05-22-2011, 02:00 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Evgeny Artyukhin - He played for Torts in Tampa, he's 6-5 255lbs, he's skates like the wind, he can play all 3 forward positions, and he loves to run people over. He made a years worth of highlight real hits in one short tournament during the WC. The only thing I don't know is his contractual status over in the KHL.
He apparently signed an extension with SKA St. Petersberg yesterday, so I don't think he'd be an option. I remember him being way too undisciplined anyway, he had a real knack for taking careless penalties.

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05-22-2011, 11:12 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I am tired of the Rangers and their reclamation projects...they never work!

I am tired of seeing EC on this team..kid has all the talent in the world and no hockey sense whatsoever, I would rather have another Prust type who goes balls to the wall and gives u everything they got.

It didn't work with Zherdev, Lisin, EC or WW
It worked much better with Brashear, Orr, Boogaard and the next no-talent you will crave as the missing piece.

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05-22-2011, 11:13 AM
  #200
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The type of guy we need is someone we already had and he is currently excelling for TB.

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