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Old
05-19-2011, 04:39 PM
  #26
fasterthanlight
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Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Holy crap we have TWO Ferriero's in the pipeline? Just give us the 2012 Cup now.
Benn and Cody = 2011 cup

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05-19-2011, 04:44 PM
  #27
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Benn and Cody = 2011 cup


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05-19-2011, 04:57 PM
  #28
SactoShork
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Ferrierieros >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sedins

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Old
05-19-2011, 05:20 PM
  #29
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Desjardins-JT-Heater
clowe-juicy-Wellwood
patty-pavs-seto
Nichol-mashinter-mcginn

boyle-murray
vlasic-demers
white-braun

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05-19-2011, 05:21 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Marleau - JT - Heatley
Clowe - Couture - Seto (or play Ferry or Pavs on the RW here and put Seto on the 3rd)
Ferreiro - Viedensky - Pavelski
McGinn - Nichol - Desjardins

Boyle - Murray
Vlasic - Demers (if no Demers, then Braun)
Irwin/White - Wallin/Moore


Sit Wellwood, Eager, Huskins, and either White or Wallin.

The 4th line forechecks a hell of a lot better than the current line. Replace Welly with Ferriero, and try one of the young studs just coming in. It worked with Couture last year in the playoffs, lets give Viedensky a shot.
Vaasa's hate for players Wilson has acquired from outside the organization (and his obsession with homegrown players) continues.

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05-19-2011, 05:25 PM
  #31
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Where's the Marcou superfan these days?

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Old
05-19-2011, 06:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Vaasa's hate for players Wilson has acquired from outside the organization (and his obsession with homegrown players) continues.

We should run a list of posters who are normally reasonable except for when it comes to certain areas:


Vaasa - Prospects/Anything Doug Wilson
LZ - Refs
PF - Marleau
Space - The English language
Davidhye - Referring to him as "Dave"
superroyain - Anything Vaasa says




Any others?


Last edited by Tkachuk4MVP: 05-19-2011 at 06:30 PM.
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Old
05-19-2011, 06:16 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
We should run a list of posters who are normally reasonable except for when it comes to certain areas:


Vaasa - Prospects/Anything Doug Wilson
LZ - Refs
PF - Marleau
Space - The English language
Davidhye - Referring to him as "Dave"


Any others?
Fire Doug Wilson- Fire Doug Wilson/General negativity(I'm jealous of his negativity skills)

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Old
05-19-2011, 06:18 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
Fire Doug Wilson- Fire Doug Wilson/General negativity(I'm jealous of his negativity skills)

If it makes you feel better, you were the first person I thought of in the "Glass is Half-Empty" category, and that's saying something on these boards.

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05-19-2011, 06:22 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Vaasa's hate for players Wilson has acquired from outside the organization (and his obsession with homegrown players) continues.
Umm, I know you like to just bash my posts without bothering to read them. But there are 7 players in the lineup that DW acquired from outside the organization. How is that blind hatred or whatever your choosing to call it?

JT, Heatley, Nichol, Desjardins, Boyle, and Wallin. All players DW acquired from outside the org. All players that I have listed in my potential line-up.

Apparently the fact that I want to sit Mitchell is not worth a comment, but the fact that I want to sit Welly is worth some sort of over-dramatic pronunciation.

Maybe we should add you to Tkachuk4MVP's list of blind hatred in certain areas and say:

superroyain = anything Vaasa says

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Old
05-19-2011, 06:25 PM
  #36
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It is a tough decision for the coach. Do you change up lines that have been working for 40+ games now, or do you go for trying to incite some life in the team by tweaking?

The third line is the one that really needs to be dismantled, IMO. They just can't seem to handle Vancouver's third line. Maybe swap Wellwood and Setoguchi, and Pavelski with Couture? Puts your speedsters and your all-around offensive threats (can pass and shoot) on the same lines.

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05-19-2011, 06:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Umm, I know you like to just bash my posts without bothering to read them. But there are 7 players in the lineup that DW acquired from outside the organization. How is that blind hatred or whatever your choosing to call it?

JT, Heatley, Nichol, Desjardins, Boyle, and Wallin. All players DW acquired from outside the org. All players that I have listed in my potential line-up.

Apparently the fact that I want to sit Mitchell is not worth a comment, but the fact that I want to sit Welly is worth some sort of over-dramatic pronunciation.

Maybe we should add you to Tkachuk4MVP's list of blind hatred in certain areas and say:

superroyain = anything Vaasa says

Done.

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Old
05-19-2011, 06:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
It is a tough decision for the coach. Do you change up lines that have been working for 40+ games now, or do you go for trying to incite some life in the team by tweaking?

The third line is the one that really needs to be dismantled, IMO. They just can't seem to handle Vancouver's third line. Maybe swap Wellwood and Setoguchi, and Pavelski with Couture? Puts your speedsters and your all-around offensive threats (can pass and shoot) on the same lines.
I don't want to see Couture anywhere near Torres for fear of Michalek all over again...

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05-19-2011, 06:30 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by KpopandHockey View Post
I don't want to see Couture anywhere near Torres for fear of Michalek all over again...

Clowe would put him in the hospital if that happened.

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05-19-2011, 06:32 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Clowe would put him in the hospital if that happened.
So, we lose couture and clowe while they lose torres? i'm sure vancouver would be fine with that trade-off...

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05-19-2011, 06:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Clowe would put him in the hospital if that happened.
I don't doubt that but I'd rather get swept than lose what looks to be our most important young player...

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05-19-2011, 06:34 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Umm, I know you like to just bash my posts without bothering to read them. But there are 7 players in the lineup that DW acquired from outside the organization. How is that blind hatred or whatever your choosing to call it?

JT, Heatley, Nichol, Desjardins, Boyle, and Wallin. All players DW acquired from outside the org. All players that I have listed in my potential line-up.

Apparently the fact that I want to sit Mitchell is not worth a comment, but the fact that I want to sit Welly is worth some sort of over-dramatic pronunciation.

Maybe we should add you to Tkachuk4MVP's list of blind hatred in certain areas and say:

superroyain = anything Vaasa says
So you'd only be hating on DW'acquired players if you omitted all of them from the lineup? That is the metric? Considering how Wallin has played, the only questionable player on that list is Desjardins, who doesn't fit into the typical category.

Mitchell its the whole "DW overpaid for him angle" which makes you dislike him.

Vaasa, my main issue with you is that I don't think you call it like you see it. You have a "view"; you have a history of shaping, if not simply faking, the facts to fit your view. It seems like you care more about being right, then acknowledging what is in front of you.

For example, you still poo-pooh the Boyle trade and portray Matt Carle as a Visnovsky clone (and I am a huge fan of Carle and know that isn't true at all). I haven't seen you give credit once to Thornton over these two fantastic playoff runs; you've been one of his biggest critics. Heck, I've been one of his biggest critics and I admitted last year he's changed things around. And you criticize DW's drafting/trading of draft picks using unadjusted hindsight.

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Old
05-19-2011, 06:57 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KpopandHockey View Post
I don't want to see Couture anywhere near Torres for fear of Michalek all over again...
I hope that isn't the attitude the Sharks's brass has.

Anyways, if Torres pulled that off in today's game, he'd get a LONG suspension, as pure hockey as the hit would be.

San Jose has the one thing going for them: they have the most talented players. There is no question in my mind, that the three most talented forwards on either roster are Thornton, Marleau, and Heatley. When they put their mind(s) to it, they are three universe-class players. I may take Burrows over Setoguchi, Kesler over Pavelski and Couture, Hansen over Mitchell, etc., but SJ's big three are the best three.

And on defense, SJ has the best player in Dan Boyle.

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Old
05-19-2011, 07:29 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
So you'd only be hating on DW'acquired players if you omitted all of them from the lineup? That is the metric? Considering how Wallin has played, the only questionable player on that list is Desjardins, who doesn't fit into the typical category.
That was the metric you used. To quote: "Vaasa's hate for players Wilson has acquired from outside the organization (and his obsession with homegrown players) continues."

There is no nuance in that statement, so you should not expect me to insert nuance into a reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Mitchell its the whole "DW overpaid for him angle" which makes you dislike him.
Not at all. I wanted to trade Mitchell because DW overpaid him. I want sit Mitchell because he's been ineffective this series. He is not using his only asset, his speed, effectively. He has not been good defensively (his only other asset). Ferriero has looked better in a limited role in his few games. I say swap them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Vaasa, my main issue with you is that I don't think you call it like you see it. You have a "view"; you have a history of shaping, if not simply faking, the facts to fit your view. It seems like you care more about being right, then acknowledging what is in front of you.
I call it the way I see it. Just because I don't see it the way you do does not make my view wrong. It makes it my opinion. Just as your view is your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
For example, you still poo-pooh the Boyle trade and portray Matt Carle as a Visnovsky clone (and I am a huge fan of Carle and know that isn't true at all). I haven't seen you give credit once to Thornton over these two fantastic playoff runs; you've been one of his biggest critics. Heck, I've been one of his biggest critics and I admitted last year he's changed things around. And you criticize DW's drafting/trading of draft picks using unadjusted hindsight.
You will never find a quote of me comparing to Carle to Visnovsky. What you will find me saying is that Boyle costs too much, that is contract is too long, and that I would have preferred to keep Carle. Carle has developed (IMO) into a very solid 2-way defenseman who actually relatively cheap for his skillset. Would I rather have Carle and Ehrhoff (for example) for the same cost as Boyle? In a heartbeat.

As for Thornton, your selective memory is coming into effect again. I've praised JT throughout this years playoffs. I didn't think he was that great last year, but I've said numerous times he's been among the best, if not the best, player on most nights this playoffs. But this is Thornton's 6th playoff as a Shark. Am I supposed to forget the prior 5 years when he was making $7 mil+ and regularly disappearing in the playoffs? I'll give JT a ton of credit for doing well this year. But if he goes back to sucking next year, I would still want to trade him.

As for DW, you'll find that I criticized at the time of the move, and continue to do so. I was against the Rivet trade (and people still bash me on that) when it was it made. I was against the Boyes trade when it was made. And the Guerin trade. And the Campbell trade. There have been DW moves I've been all for, but again, you don't remember any of those because you like to just accuse me of blindly hating DW and everything he does. I have reasons for hating what DW has done, and they have been clearly articulated in the past.

Fini

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Old
05-19-2011, 07:37 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
So, we lose couture and clowe while they lose torres? i'm sure vancouver would be fine with that trade-off...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KpopandHockey View Post
I don't doubt that but I'd rather get swept than lose what looks to be our most important young player...

Obviously. I'm not saying I want it to happen, I'm just saying that's what would happen.

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05-19-2011, 09:46 PM
  #46
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Quote:
That was the metric you used. To quote: "Vaasa's hate for players Wilson has acquired from outside the organization (and his obsession with homegrown players) continues."

There is no nuance in that statement, so you should not expect me to insert nuance into a reply.
I'm not expecting you to insert nuance; I'm asking you not to go to reduction ad absurdum.

Quote:
I call it the way I see it. Just because I don't see it the way you do does not make my view wrong. It makes it my opinion. Just as your view is your opinion.
Like I said, I don't think you do this, because it seems like you are watching a completely different game. Bench Ian White? Put in Viedensky? Come on, those ideas are cucoo for cocoa puffs!

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You will never find a quote of me comparing to Carle to Visnovsky.
I mean that the way you describe him, its as if he is that #1 defenseman who is just a little short. What he really is is Douglas Murray to Chris Pronger.

Quote:
What you will find me saying is that Boyle costs too much, that is contract is too long, and that I would have preferred to keep Carle. Carle has developed (IMO) into a very solid 2-way defenseman who actually relatively cheap for his skillset. Would I rather have Carle and Ehrhoff (for example) for the same cost as Boyle? In a heartbeat.
As a Carle lover (and of the opinion that had he developed properly, he'd have a couple norrises by now), I think you are overvaluing him. Also, keep in mind that Ehrhoff is going to get a nice payday this year.

I think it is very telling, that Ehrhoff and Carle are both secondary defensemen on their teams. They are both the #3-4 defensemen on their respective teams. Both are complementary players to on-the-whole superior players in Edler and Pronger. Yet you take Boyle, put him on Vancouver, and he is instantly their #1 guy. Take Boyle, and put him on Philly, and he's their #2.

Two top-4 defensemen are not worth a bona-fide #1 guy.

Quote:
As for Thornton, your selective memory is coming into effect again. I've praised JT throughout this years playoffs.
Really? Where? I don't have an eidetic memory, but I recall you agreeing to one post praising Thornton, and you also forgetting to mention him as one of SJ's best two-way forwards.

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I didn't think he was that great last year, but I've said numerous times he's been among the best, if not the best, player on most nights this playoffs.
On these boards? I don't quite recall that. Can you show me?

Quote:
But this is Thornton's 6th playoff as a Shark. Am I supposed to forget the prior 5 years when he was making $7 mil+ and regularly disappearing in the playoffs? I'll give JT a ton of credit for doing well this year. But if he goes back to sucking next year, I would still want to trade him.
I think your assesment of Thornton is very harsh. He disappeared all five times? that is a pretty harsh statement. He certainly showed up last year, and was fantastic in '07.

Quote:
As for DW, you'll find that I criticized at the time of the move, and continue to do so. I was against the Rivet trade (and people still bash me on that) when it was it made.
We've gone over this a hundred times, but your basic argument is that it isn't worth giving up draft picks for rentals, or most non-young players, for that matter. NHL history shows you otherwise. I mean look at the Rivet trade...the Sharks got the services of a top-4 dman for a couple years, his experience, his maturity, etc. They got two second-round-picks...or, they could have had Max Pacioretty. Where does Max Pacioretty fit in this lineup? On the fourth line? Where would he have gotten a chance to prove himself?

This team has been at the point, where they can only improve via the draft by getting top-notch players. 2nd and 3rd liners aren't going to help this team; they can find those elsewhere. And since you don't really get top-notch players at a draft position of 25, it makes sense to trade the pick. And it is a big reason that DW has swung for the fences with his picks as of late.

Quote:
I was against the Boyes trade when it was made.
I wasn't happy with the Boyes trade, in terms of value. But don't you agree that Brad Boyes was expendable? Forsaken by 3 teams already? A one-dimensional point-compiler who has no business on a contender? A guy who has come crashing down to Earth since his 70 point season three years ago. At a cap hit of ~4.5 million, is he really worth it on this team? Who does he bump off? Couture? Pavelski? Marleau?

Quote:
And the Guerin trade
Assuming that, best case, Sharks picked up David Perron, where does he fit on this team? Does he oust Clowe from the top six? Is he a superior talent to Milan Michalek, Devin Setoguchi, Steve Bernier, etc? He's on the top PP unit and top-six in St.Louis; would he have developed as nicely with much more limited ice time in San Jose, especially considering how he's bad defensively?

Quote:
And the Campbell trade.
Once again, best case, it might have been nice to have someone like John Carlson. But its more likely that Carlson, or perhaps Demers, would have gone the way of Ty Wishart and been moved. Campbell was a huge help in getting San Jose to those playoffs...

Quote:
There have been DW moves I've been all for, but again, you don't remember any of those because you like to just accuse me of blindly hating DW and everything he does.
I can remember two moves: the Blake signing, and the Hjalmarsson offer sheet, even though you thought the offer was a little too high IIRC. There may have been some minor moves, like the Ferriero signing or the Wellwood pickup, but those moves face little complaint because the risks are inherently low.

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Old
05-23-2011, 01:52 AM
  #47
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It seemed like Vancouver responded really well to SJ's lineup changes.

They changed their look on the PK and PP and it really worked. Was disappointed that TMac couldn't adjust accordingly, and also that he didn't anticipate the changes by the Canucks.

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