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Old
05-21-2011, 11:19 AM
  #26
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Great read DIO, peaked my excitement for the draft, a month away.........too long!

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05-21-2011, 11:23 AM
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Nugent and Hopkins for the 1st pick to the Oilers. Awesome value.

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05-21-2011, 12:38 PM
  #28
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Awesome thread, great read, thank you!

The late boomers are intriguing in this year draft class. IMO, Huberdeau & Hamilton will be taken 3rd & 4th over Landeskog and Couturier. The lower offensive ceilings of Landeskog & Couturier are going to be a concern drafting them top 5.

Huberdeau especially has emerged as a player who has more dynamic offensive skills (love his hands and spinorama move) with a bit of a mean streak & good leadership potential. For me, he is the clear choice at 3rd.

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05-21-2011, 01:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
I like everything except for David musil at 36. He wasonce a top 10 prospect and hasn't disappointed at all this year.
He was a guy that played an upward of 30-40 minutes a night on a good Vancouver Giants team. However with so many young guys in the lineup this year he has had a hard time being the go to guy on the backend. Much like Saad, he could turn it all around this season with a solid season. I really do like Musil and wouldn't be disappointed if we picked him at 31. He's just a project at this point that will never be an offence first type player. If were lucky though he could be a Matt Greene type player. Having said that- do you take a guy like that in the first round? I just dont think he has the overall two way game needed to be taken at 19. He will be a mean SOB for the team that takes him though.

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Originally Posted by Latexi84 View Post
Joel Armia comparable to Jesse Joensuu? No chance in hell, Armia is not a grinder nor will he ever be.

Average u18's? He had like what.. twice (?) the points Zibanejad had + scored them much more consistantly, not against weak teams like Mika did.

That being said.. Nice list overall. Keep it up!
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Originally Posted by OilerOlli View Post
Nice read, but some things I don't see.
Huberdeau like Jeff Carter? Huberdeau reminds me of Alex Tanguay.
I have to admit that my "comparables" aren't just what I think of the player. In many cases they are right from the players mouth or what I have heard scouts use despite not seeing the similiarities at times. After doing all the writeup's I might have scimmed on the "comparables" section a bit.

As far as Zibanejad goes, he didn't put up the numbers but he really showed flashes of the type of player he will be when everything is put together. He certainly has more tools in the toolbox then Armia and I think he knows how to use them. When he isn't producing offensively he is still a force and noticable on the ice, I don't think I can say the same thing for Armia. He is invisible when he doesn't have the puck the most nights. I never said Zibanejad had a great U-18's by any means. I just think Armia's tournmanet was "average" by comparison to other top 10-20 prospects like Ryan Murphy, JT Miller, and Mark Scheifele.

I think Huberdeau could eventually fill out to be the goal scorer that Carter is but yes, right now he isn't the type of player that can use his frame and goal scoring touch to his advantage. I think Alex Tanguay wishes he was Huberdeau. Sure he might play that kind of style... except way better. But down the road I could see Jonathan growing an inch or two and really being something special- ala Carter. I don't think thats the type of player he is now, but he could be. Its actually surprising IMO because he isn't as east-west as tanguay. He scores more of his goals by taking it to the next and going through people and really exposing that open ice. A little fake here and hes left alone and bury's his shot 90% of the time. I could see Carter being a fair comparable.

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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I disagree. He is a good player offensively. Defensively too for that matter. He is a smart player and he does indeed have "good hands". He may not show that well now due to a shoulder injury, but despite that, he looked pretty good last night vs Mississauga. You dont get 95pts in today's chl by being a scrub.
Last time I checked being ranked in the first round isn't a "scrub" by any means. Still, I don't know how many of those 95 points you could really attribute to Phillips. Sure he makes right play but too often he will pick up an assist after a great individual effort by Huberdeau. I know THN has him ranked as high as the top 10 but i'm just weary of players that aren't ever exposed. He is on a great team and never put in a situation where he has to be the go-to-guy like many players ranked above him. I still like him and think he could even go inside the top 15. I just think its risky to take those types of guys so early. Grimaldi is easily more talented while Jenner and Jensen have the size and skill to be long time NHLers.

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Originally Posted by Alberta Oilfire View Post
Great read DIO, peaked my excitement for the draft, a month away.........too long!
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Originally Posted by AK Dandyman View Post
Awesome thread, great read, thank you!
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Originally Posted by Oilersfan2354 View Post
Haven't you heard you don't need to be exceptional to be an effective defenseman. You just have to have size and a stanchion handy and you can easily handle those speed guys...

Seriously though, awesome job with the write up
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Yes, this is much appreciated!
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I like it, well done. Puempel you have higher than most projections but he is the type of player that has enough potnetial it seems that it will only take one team to really like him and he will be picked.

I also like that you have oleksiak where you do. I think this guy is rated higher than he should be in most projections because he is a giant and he should not be ahead of the other Dmen you have in the late teens early 20's.

(I like you placement of Hamilton as well.)
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Amazing thread. Good read. Took me all day to get through it.
Thanks for reading and commenting!


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Old
05-21-2011, 02:02 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AK Dandyman View Post
Awesome thread, great read, thank you!

The late boomers are intriguing in this year draft class. IMO, Huberdeau & Hamilton will be taken 3rd & 4th over Landeskog and Couturier. The lower offensive ceilings of Landeskog & Couturier are going to be a concern drafting them top 5.

Huberdeau especially has emerged as a player who has more dynamic offensive skills (love his hands and spinorama move) with a bit of a mean streak & good leadership potential. For me, he is the clear choice at 3rd.
Couturier had a higher ppg on a worse team. He is bigger and better defensively as well.

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05-21-2011, 02:09 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Last time I checked being ranked in the first round isn't a "scrub" by any means. Still, I don't know how many of those 95 points you could really attribute to Phillips. Sure he makes right play but too often he will pick up an assist after a great individual effort by Huberdeau. I know THN has him ranked as high as the top 10 but i'm just weary of players that aren't ever exposed. He is on a great team and never put in a situation where he has to be the go-to-guy like many players ranked above him. I still like him and think he could even go inside the top 15. I just think its risky to take those types of guys so early. Grimaldi is easily more talented while Jenner and Jensen have the size and skill to be long time NHLers.
The point was made that he didnt have good hands. This is not the case. Watching him play says otherwise. All those players on the top unit help each other. Phillips isnt just riding coattails, he has real talent, which is easy to see if and when you watch him play.

Grimaldi will be lucky to go in the first round. He will go late in the first if not in the second. Yes he is talented, but he is way too small. Think Jordan Weal, a player you thought might go in the second round but didnt.

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05-21-2011, 02:12 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
He was a guy that played an upward of 30-40 minutes a night on a good Vancouver Giants team. However with so many young guys in the lineup this year he has had a hard time being the go to guy on the backend. Much like Saad, he could turn it all around this season with a solid season. I really do like Musil and wouldn't be disappointed if we picked him at 31. He's just a project at this point that will never be an offence first type player. If were lucky though he could be a Matt Greene type player. Having said that- do you take a guy like that in the first round? I just dont think he has the overall two way game needed to be taken at 19. He will be a mean SOB for the team that takes him though.
I agree. I'd prefer him at 31, as I can definitely see him being a good #3-4 D. A better version of Smid.

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05-21-2011, 02:14 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post


I have to admit that my "comparables" aren't just what I think of the player. In many cases they are right from the players mouth or what I have heard scouts use despite not seeing the similiarities at times. After doing all the writeup's I might have scimmed on the "comparables" section a bit.
No problem. It's only more objective when you make it that way.
All in all it was really good to read.
I appreciate your work you have done with that. As a draft fan I always like lists like that. :-)

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05-21-2011, 02:17 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AK Dandyman View Post
The late boomers are intriguing in this year draft class. IMO, Huberdeau & Hamilton will be taken 3rd & 4th over Landeskog and Couturier. The lower offensive ceilings of Landeskog & Couturier are going to be a concern drafting them top 5.

Huberdeau especially has emerged as a player who has more dynamic offensive skills (love his hands and spinorama move) with a bit of a mean streak & good leadership potential. For me, he is the clear choice at 3rd.
I like Huberdeau and Hamilton a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if Huberdeau went as high as number two on the draft even aheard of Larsson. It's hard not to get caught in the hype machine for Huberdeau but I don't see Landeskog and Couturier having hard times offensively. Couturier produced at a better PPG pace on a team that was much worse then the St.John Sea Dogs. He also picked up every peice of hardware for the QMJHL this season. He also played on Canada's WJC team and is the most ready player for the NHL. He wasn't given the same opportunity to produce in the playoffs that Huberdeau had. He was still above a PPG in the playoffs despite losing.

As for Landeskog I think he brings that leadership you can't put a price tag on and will be a 35-40 goal scorer at the NHL level. I guess it's all about how risk adverse you are. Sure they don't have as high of offensive ceilings but they are much much better defensively.


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05-21-2011, 02:23 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The point was made that he didnt have good hands. This is not the case. Watching him play says otherwise. All those players on the top unit help each other. Phillips isnt just riding coattails, he has real talent, which is easy to see if and when you watch him play.

Grimaldi will be lucky to go in the first round. He will go late in the first if not in the second. Yes he is talented, but he is way too small. Think Jordan Weal, a player you thought might go in the second round but didnt.
I didn't say he didn't have good hands, I said he doesn't have the silky smooth hands that Huberdeau does. Sorry for the ambiguity, I can change it if you want. As far as riding coattails, the same was said for Sam Gagner. Sure they can each produce individually but not at the rate that they didnt with a star on their line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dousedinoil
Unlike dynamic Jonathan Huberdeau, Zack Phillips doesn't have silky smooth hands
And yes I agree that Grimaldi could easily fall outside the first round but he is a top 10 talent and showed no signs of slowing down at the U-18's. I can't help but cheer for the underdog. I don't want to beat the "dead horse" Jordan Weal arguement but he did just put up 96 points and a +13 rating on a terrible Regina Pats team- 44 points higher then his nearest linemate. I like size in a player but im not going to pigeonhole a player because he doesn't have it. IMO grimaldi makes up for it in other areas. Lets just agree to disagree on the smaller guys. Also for the record despite being the BPA I don't think Edmonton should go after him. But if you a big team like San Jose or Los Angeles you could probably use his skill, speed and game-breakiny ability.


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05-21-2011, 02:55 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Couturier had a higher ppg on a worse team. He is bigger and better defensively as well.
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
I like Huberdeau and Hamilton a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if Huberdeau went as high as number two on the draft even aheard of Larsson. It's hard not to get caught in the hype machine for Huberdeau but I don't see Landeskog and Couturier having hard times offensively. Couturier produced at a better PPG pace on a team that was much worse then the St.John Sea Dogs. He also picked up every peice of hardware for the QMJHL this season. He also played on Canada's WJC team and is the most ready player for the NHL.

As for Landeskog I think he brings that leadership you can't put a price tag on and will be a 35-40 goal scorer at the NHL level. I guess it's all about how risk adverse you are. Sure they don't have as high of offensive ceilings but they are much much better defensively.
Fair enough. Can't argue with these good points. Couturier & Landeskog are the safer picks because if their offense don't translate in to big NHL numbers, they are still going to be useful two way players. Huberdeau would be more of a boom bust pick.

As for offense points production, Huberdeau has more points but played more games and with way more talented teammates. However IMO, when they are way over a point-per-game players, it's close enough for me and i don't put as much weight, on who has the higher points or better teammates to play with, give or take 10-20 pts. I would take the player with a more dynamic offensive game and skill, which i think Huberdeau has a slight edge.

Just saw a piece on TSN pre-game this morning featuring Huberdeau. I think it was a Huberdeau's teammate that compared his competitiveness and leadership quality to that of Jonathan Toews. So it looks like there is some good intangibles there for Huberdeau too, which is comparable to Couturier and Landeskog to some extent.


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Old
05-21-2011, 03:04 PM
  #37
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I agree. I'd prefer him at 31, as I can definitely see him being a good #3-4 D. A better version of Smid.
I take Joel Edmundson at 31 over Musil.

He's more mobile, just as good defensively and a much better fighter.

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05-21-2011, 03:36 PM
  #38
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Curious to know how you know that Dougie Hamilton plays "upwards of 40+ minutes a night"

that stood out and seems crazy, but otherwise great read.

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05-21-2011, 03:37 PM
  #39
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Curious to know how you know that Dougie Hamilton plays "upwards of 40+ minutes a night"

that stood out and seems crazy, but otherwise great read.
As per Ryan Strome on thepipelineshow. The OHL doesn't list icetime anywhere

http://thepipelineshow.com/clips/sea...ilton_Feb5.mp3

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05-21-2011, 03:38 PM
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I just think Armia's tournmanet was "average" by comparison to other top 10-20 prospects like Ryan Murphy, JT Miller, and Mark Scheifele.
Really?

He was tied for 4th in tournament scoring with J.T Miller (only the 3 russians were ahead) while playing in a much weaker team with TERRIBLE teammates.

Yeah sure he's not a future safe pick like the 3rd line grinder like Zibanejad... He's a sniper. What are snipers expected to do? That's right; Score.

Makes me wonder what you actually saw from him in the u18's.

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05-21-2011, 03:39 PM
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As per Ryan Strome on thepipelineshow. The OHL doesn't list icetime anywhere

http://thepipelineshow.com/clips/sea...ilton_Feb5.mp3
fair enough then, that's insane. I never knew Jr players come close to that.

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05-21-2011, 03:56 PM
  #42
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Really?

He was tied for 4th in tournament scoring with J.T Miller (only the 3 russians were ahead) while playing in a much weaker team with TERRIBLE teammates.

Yeah sure he's not a future safe pick like the 3rd line grinder like Zibanejad... He's a sniper. What are snipers expected to do? That's right; Score.

Makes me wonder what you actually saw from him in the u18's.
I'm not really here to argue. To be honest you are from Finland and have probably seen him play more then me. From what ive seen ive just found him to be very one dimensional. Maybe thats just because of the teammates he is playing with. I've always been somewhat weary of players who have significantly more goals then assists. The same thing happened with Landon Ferraro. He played on a crappy team and scored 37 goals. Everyone was drooling to see what he was capable of doing with good teammates. I don't see Armia cracking the top ten although it wouldn't surprise me at all if Minnesota selected him. Maybe you can fill me in?

Last I checked Zibanejad was ranked 6th by ISS while Armia was ranked 13th. http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=36721 I didn't think that 16th was that far off. Obviously my CHL bias has come into play with my love for Mark Scheifele, Mark McNeill and Nathan Beaulieu more.

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05-21-2011, 04:36 PM
  #43
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I'm not really here to argue. To be honest you are from Finland and have probably seen him play more then me. From what ive seen ive just found him to be very one dimensional. Maybe thats just because of the teammates he is playing with. I've always been somewhat weary of players who have significantly more goals then assists. The same thing happened with Landon Ferraro. He played on a crappy team and scored 37 goals. Everyone was drooling to see what he was capable of doing with good teammates. I don't see Armia cracking the top ten although it wouldn't surprise me at all if Minnesota selected him. Maybe you can fill me in?

Last I checked Zibanejad was ranked 6th by ISS while Armia was ranked 13th. http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=36721 I didn't think that 16th was that far off. Obviously my CHL bias has come into play with my love for Mark Scheifele, Mark McNeill and Nathan Beaulieu more.

NoNoNo! Don't get me wrong i love your rankings and understand your concerns about Armia.

In SM-Liiga he did score alot more goals than he assisted that's true. The center he played with is a great playmaker and like you i had my concerns about Armia's hockey IQ.. That was until the u18's.
There he lacked a playmaking center and needed to be one himself. Thus he had something like 1 goal and 7 assists at one point and overall was setting people up well.

That was the point i stopped worrying and jumped on the hype train.

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05-21-2011, 04:42 PM
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NoNoNo! Don't get me wrong i love your rankings and understand your concerns about Armia.

In SM-Liiga he did score alot more goals than he assisted that's true. The center he played with is a great playmaker and like you i had my concerns about Armia's hockey IQ.. That was until the u18's.
There he lacked a playmaking center and needed to be one himself. Thus he had something like 1 goal and 7 assists at one point and overall was setting people up well.

That was the point i stopped worrying and jumped on the hype train.
Thanks, I appreciate any information coming overseas. It's not exactly easy to dig up information and find live games of his. Needless to say if he puts it all together like you said hes capable of, he could be a very useful player for any NHL team. Lets hope we see some more finnish players in this years draft. I can't wait to see where Miikka Salomäki and Jyrki Jokipakka go.


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05-21-2011, 05:03 PM
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Nice rankings. Best I've seen, I'm serious. Not necessarily the order but info/analysis compacted into one page. Read every bit of it.

Cool pondering music had my synapses firing on all cylinders.

Gonna be so many wild card picks in the first and second round this year.

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05-21-2011, 05:45 PM
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What?
Sorry, relatively ambiguous statement, wasn't it?

What I was trying to say is that I think there are enough questions surrounding Saad that he will not get picked in the first round. Too much uncertainty to warrant a first round pick.

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05-21-2011, 05:59 PM
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Nice rankings. Best I've seen, I'm serious. Not necessarily the order but info/analysis compacted into one page. Read every bit of it.

Cool pondering music had my synapses firing on all cylinders.

Gonna be so many wild card picks in the first and second round this year.
Thanks the word! I figure even if you don't agree with the synopsis you will at least have a bunch of information on your favourite prospect and be able to do some of your own research. It can be kind of frustrating when someone just ranks a player without informing the reader.

I can't wait to see who is available at 19 and 31 this year. If we could pull another Jordan Eberle out of our hats were are going to be a powerhouse in the near future.

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05-21-2011, 06:02 PM
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As much as I think Saad is dropping I couldn't put him outside the first round. If he bounces back he will be an amazing player. Even if he doesn't he should be solid. I just wish he used his body more and played with more of an edge. He saved some face with a decent playoffs but still a risky pick.

I don't know how teams will be able to pass on Grimaldi so late in the draft. He has a legitimate chance of being a first line player but will be passed on because of his size. Last time I checked his size hasn't hurt him thus far. This kid IMO is something special but certainly a boom/bust prospect that could go either way. I think going to play with the Sioux with Miller will go a long way in his overall game against bigger players.

Already touched on Biggs but its funny that you think he is too high and IATL thinks he's too low. IMO that probably means he's just right.
Saad's heart (effort), Grimaldi's size, and Biggs' head (hockey IQ) are all real concerns that teams will consider critically, especially for picks in the first round or two.

I don't think Saad did nearly enough in the playoffs to mitigate his relatively weak regular season.

I can't see teams using a first rounder (with the possible exception of Vancouver and the California teams) on Grimaldi, no matter how talented he is.

As for Biggs, you might be right about him getting picked right about where you ranked him because of the range of opinions about him, but I haven't seen or read anything about him that makes him stand out and warrant a top end first round pick.

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05-21-2011, 06:08 PM
  #49
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I take Joel Edmundson at 31 over Musil.

He's more mobile, just as good defensively and a much better fighter.
This is going to be a very deep draft. I hope that one of Edmundson, Scarlett, Percy, Sproul, Lowry, Clendening or Russo fall to 61.

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05-21-2011, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Thanks the word! I figure even if you don't agree with the synopsis you will at least have a bunch of information on your favourite prospect and be able to do some of your own research. It can be kind of frustrating when someone just ranks a player without informing the reader.

I can't wait to see who is available at 19 and 31 this year. If we could pull another Jordan Eberle out of our hats were are going to be a powerhouse in the near future.
There's going to be a Lucic or a Keith or even a Weber just waiting in the weeds this draft.

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