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Realigned!!! [3/7 update: CHI - COL - DAL - MIN - NSH - STL - WPG; NHLPA approves]

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12-03-2011, 10:49 PM
  #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildman22 View Post
@FriedgeHNIC

They have Pho as a wild card in case they move


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...#id=2173372548
Significant improvement over the "keep the status quo" proposals like a straight win-det swap.

I would love to be in that Central division. Man, that would just be the "Cage Match of Hockey" division. Talk about loaded.

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12-03-2011, 11:41 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Looks good for us, but would Winnipeg agree to being the only Canadian team in the conference? Don't really know who else they could toss in there, unless PHO moves, but overall I like that set up.
TNSE has stated multiple times that they don't care if they're the only Canadian team in their division.

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12-03-2011, 11:46 PM
  #378
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It's interesting to see the brinksmanship here. "The 10" are adamant that 4 divisions spoils their exclusive little party, and they think they can control things. However, it seems the league has made the options untenable. By not moving WPG/VAN/DAL/CBJ, they've guaranteed a lot of votes against the straight swap. MIN, VAN, WPG, DAL, CBJ, CHI, STL, and NSH are certain to oppose that plan. They've put themselves in a position where only 3 teams need to oppose the change to block the 6 division proposal. They have the votes, so it would seem that Bettman is going all out to overrule the Northeast and Atlantic divisions.

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12-03-2011, 11:49 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Looks good for us, but would Winnipeg agree to being the only Canadian team in the conference? Don't really know who else they could toss in there, unless PHO moves, but overall I like that set up.
Most people I know would like to be in the Central division. There is no real burning desire to be in a almost all Canadian division. We like the idea of being with Minnesota as well as other potential central American teams. Would create some great rivalries. And technically, Winnipeg is much closer to St. Paul then Calgary/Edmonton. Even Chi-town is closer to Winnipeg than EdCal.

Here is hoping!

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12-04-2011, 12:06 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Most people I know would like to be in the Central division. There is no real burning desire to be in a almost all Canadian division. We like the idea of being with Minnesota as well as other potential central American teams. Would create some great rivalries. And technically, Winnipeg is much closer to St. Paul then Calgary/Edmonton. Even Chi-town is closer to Winnipeg than EdCal.

Here is hoping!
Since when is Panama getting an expansion team?

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12-04-2011, 12:24 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
It's interesting to see the brinksmanship here. "The 10" are adamant that 4 divisions spoils their exclusive little party, and they think they can control things. However, it seems the league has made the options untenable. By not moving WPG/VAN/DAL/CBJ, they've guaranteed a lot of votes against the straight swap. MIN, VAN, WPG, DAL, CBJ, CHI, STL, and NSH are certain to oppose that plan. They've put themselves in a position where only 3 teams need to oppose the change to block the 6 division proposal. They have the votes, so it would seem that Bettman is going all out to overrule the Northeast and Atlantic divisions.
Like I keep saying, I wish there was some way to just tell the Northeast and Atlantic divisions to just go **** themselves. Spoiled little *****. (Rhymes with 'bunts'). I hate to use such strong language, but thats really what I think of the "exclusive little tea party" that is those two divisions.

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12-04-2011, 01:17 AM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Like I keep saying, I wish there was some way to just tell the Northeast and Atlantic divisions to just go **** themselves. Spoiled little *****. (Rhymes with 'bunts'). I hate to use such strong language, but thats really what I think of the "exclusive little tea party" that is those two divisions.
Part of the reason those teams have so much power is that they're wildly successful. Those teams pull in a huge––disproportionately large-–part of the league's revenue. In fact, they subsidize the smaller-market teams. Sure, they Wild are pretty self-sufficient, but let's be honest about the fact that, for example, the Yotes are basically surviving (if you can even call it that) on Northeastern money. So until the other teams can exist without the help of the "Old Boys' Club," it's just a matter of fact that they'll have extra influence.

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12-04-2011, 04:50 AM
  #383
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They have the influence because they hold most of the 2/3rds majority plain and simple.

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12-04-2011, 11:54 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Part of the reason those teams have so much power is that they're wildly successful. Those teams pull in a huge––disproportionately large-–part of the league's revenue. In fact, they subsidize the smaller-market teams. Sure, they Wild are pretty self-sufficient, but let's be honest about the fact that, for example, the Yotes are basically surviving (if you can even call it that) on Northeastern money. So until the other teams can exist without the help of the "Old Boys' Club," it's just a matter of fact that they'll have extra influence.
Not true. The reason the Northeast and Atlantic have so much sway is because they act in concert. They like the situation they're in, and none of them have major problems. Changes generally would be negative to the group, so they have incentive to stand tall together. They have 10 votes, so as long as no one goes against the group, they only ever need 1 more vote to block a change. League revenues have nothing to do with it, otherwise New Jersey and the Islanders would be ousted from the group.

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12-04-2011, 12:18 PM
  #385
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i think revenues do play a part. naturally there isn't going to be anything spoken but when the league deals with this sort of thing they have to keep in mind the more profitable teams might be more inclined to meet them halfway in new revenue sharing negotiations if kept happy. it has to be in their mind somewhere.

But overall, yeah, it's basically a block of like-minded teams with relatively favorable travel schedules sticking together.

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12-05-2011, 10:28 AM
  #386
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From this post about the BoG meetings, it sounds like Philly is on board with the 4 division alignment. That should settle it then, 16 "western conference" votes, Washington, Carolina, Florida, and now Philly. Tampa Bay likely supports the proposal as well so there's even a wiggle vote.

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12-05-2011, 01:22 PM
  #387
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Under the new system, in our proposed "conference", playoffs:

2011: DET-DAL, NAS-CHI
2010: CHI-STL, DET-NSH
2009: DET-CLB, CHI-STL
2008: DET-NSH, MIN-DAL
2007: DET-MIN, NSH-DAL
2006: DET-WPG, NSH-DAL

I think this will make playoffs a lot more interesting. For the Wild, we'd have played Dallas with home advantage (!) in 2008 and played Detroit in 2007. Also, when Atlanta won the division in 2007, they wouldn't have even qualified for playoffs

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12-05-2011, 01:35 PM
  #388
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I don't know if I like the divisional playoffs structure. I'd be more a fan of my previously proposed top 3 + 4. You'd get one divisional playoff (#2 vs #3), and no one stays home while an inferior team makes the playoffs (the +4 is the 4 best teams that aren't top 3 in their division). If we absolutely have to do top 4 from each division, I'd rather see it reseeded after the first round rather than the second.

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12-05-2011, 01:36 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Under the new system, in our proposed "conference", playoffs:

2011: DET-DAL, NAS-CHI
2010: CHI-STL, DET-NSH
2009: DET-CLB, CHI-STL
2008: DET-NSH, MIN-DAL
2007: DET-MIN, NSH-DAL
2006: DET-WPG, NSH-DAL

I think this will make playoffs a lot more interesting. For the Wild, we'd have played Dallas with home advantage (!) in 2008 and played Detroit in 2007. Also, when Atlanta won the division in 2007, they wouldn't have even qualified for playoffs
Unfortunately, you can't really play that what if game in such a cut and paste manner...you've got to take the avg points/game per opponent and calculate new point standings based on the new schedule format to see the real probable result.

If I recall, the Wild would have been worse off in most cases, as they had a horrid record vs the Central in most of those seasons.

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12-05-2011, 01:39 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I don't know if I like the divisional playoffs structure. I'd be more a fan of my previously proposed top 3 + 4. You'd get one divisional playoff (#2 vs #3), and no one stays home while an inferior team makes the playoffs (the +4 is the 4 best teams that aren't top 3 in their division). If we absolutely have to do top 4 from each division, I'd rather see it reseeded after the first round rather than the second.
With such a division heavy schedule...I think the division playoff is mandatory, as simple seeding by record would end up extremely flawed otherwise.

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12-05-2011, 01:52 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
With such a division heavy schedule...I think the division playoff is mandatory, as simple seeding by record would end up extremely flawed otherwise.
That's what top 3 + 4 is for. The top 3 from each division make it, and the 4 best remaining teams do as well. It keeps the guaranteed division series (4x 2 vs 3) while keeping "fresh" series as well (4x 1 vs wild card). My fear is that the intention of the divisional seeding (more "meaningful" matchups) would be too successful, and we'd see the same playoff series every year.

I suppose the fear with reseeding before only 4 teams are left is the possibility of an intradivision cup final. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if there were a MIN-STL cup final?

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12-05-2011, 02:15 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
That's what top 3 + 4 is for. The top 3 from each division make it, and the 4 best remaining teams do as well. It keeps the guaranteed division series (4x 2 vs 3) while keeping "fresh" series as well (4x 1 vs wild card). My fear is that the intention of the divisional seeding (more "meaningful" matchups) would be too successful, and we'd see the same playoff series every year.

I suppose the fear with reseeding before only 4 teams are left is the possibility of an intradivision cup final. Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth if there were a MIN-STL cup final?
On the other hand, can you imagine the permanent hatred that playing a division rival in the Cup finals would breed?

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12-05-2011, 02:17 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
On the other hand, can you imagine the permanent hatred that playing a division rival in the Cup finals would breed?
Oh I'd love it as a fan of the game. However, I can see the Eastern teams just flying off the handle if there were an all Central or Pacific final.

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12-05-2011, 02:30 PM
  #394
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The playoff format is what could kill the thing.

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12-05-2011, 02:46 PM
  #395
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Imo, the playoff format is one of the best aspects of it. How do you think the North Stars and Blackhawks developed such an intense rivalry? Repeated playoff matchups develop intense rivalry. Intense rivalry sells tickets.

In this case winning and business match.

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12-05-2011, 02:47 PM
  #396
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****ing sites blocked at work... the proxy-nazis are pissing me clear the **** off...

What is the current re-alignment plan? The last one I saw had both 7 team divisions out east...

If the radical approach is taken, I think I see the wisdom of that plan, even though the western teams might not.

If Phoenix indeed relocates east, having the two 7 team divisions in the east *now* makes a ton of sense, since the Coyotes will more than likely relocated to the eastern time zone...

If the 5-team per 3 division and 2 conference set up must persist...

I still say:
Pacific: Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Phoenix, Vancouver
Northwest: Colorado, Minnesota, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg
Central: Dallas, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus.

Makes Dallas happy. Makes Minnesota somewhat happy with three teams in MST and one in CST. Vancouver is also somewhat happy, their travel gets reduced by a bit. San Jose also has their travel reduced.

The rub is... we'll have to have this conversation all over again when Phoenix fails for the last time and relocates either to QC or the NW side of the GTA.

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12-05-2011, 02:58 PM
  #397
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I just didn't want to reseed the "final four" teams. I love the first two rounds being divisional, but I'd love to still have east and west.

We could do actual brackets for NHL playoffs...works fine for college basketball and NFL!

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12-05-2011, 03:06 PM
  #398
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If Phoenix indeed relocates east, having the two 7 team divisions in the east *now* makes a ton of sense, since the Coyotes will more than likely relocated to the eastern time zone...
I think that is indeed the whole point. I get a sense that almost everyone feels that Phoenix relocation is inevitable, and at this point its just a question of "where" instead of "when". QC would be a good fit, and that would leave room for two more expansion teams, one on each side of the continent, to balance all four divisions out at 8.

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12-05-2011, 03:13 PM
  #399
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QC is hardly even in line for relocation. The preferred sites are Seattle/Tacoma/Portland, KC, and Houston. Houston would be #1 but our good friend Les Alexander has exclusivity rights that he's not looking to waive.

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12-05-2011, 03:13 PM
  #400
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Plus, with both conferences in the east having 7 teams, it looks more attractive to the eastern block teams getting better odds for the playoffs.

If true that philly is breaking rank and supporting the 4 conference model...the ploy is working.

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