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JVR to Vancouver

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:00 PM
  #1
Luck 6
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JVR to Vancouver

Is he simply unavailable? My guess would most certainly be yes, but it's a boring Friday at work and I need something to do.

TO VAN:
JVR

TO PHI:
Hodgson
Schneider
Shirokov


Vancouver gets a LW with high upside for either their 3rd or 2nd line for next season. Philly gets a young potential top 6 center who is NHL ready, a young starting goalie, and a LW replacement for JVR who is also NHL ready.

I understand this is a bit of a quantity for quality deal, but the quantity pieces are very coveted pieces that also have high value.

Would Philly even consider such a deal? If not, would they even consider moving JVR? If so, what would their primary need be? The only real need I see filled here is in the net, and Flyers fans may argue Shneider isn't proven enough. What other needs does Philly have?

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:05 PM
  #2
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Depends how highly Philly views JVR. Certainly some good prospects going the other way, so it has to be somewhat close in value.

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05-20-2011, 01:06 PM
  #3
Timbo Slice
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From the outside looking in, the Nucks need to add a talented roster player to this.

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:13 PM
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Fair trade. Very close to saying yes but no deal. JVR gave us a glimpse of what he can become. He was easily our best player in the play-offs. Looks very similar to Giroux in terms of development

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:14 PM
  #5
phlocky
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That's an aweful lot to give up to get JVR but it's what you'd have to do. Honestly, I doubt Vanc would do this not because JVR isn't worth that much but because Hodgson and Shirokov have yet to even be given a chance to prove themselves at the NHL level. I remember not even 2 years ago Vanc fans saying that they wouldn't even trade Hodgson straight up for JVR and that the Flyers would have to add. Now it seems the roles are reversed.


There was a reason the Flyers took JVR 2nd overall. There is a photo from the Flyers draft prep room that showed JVR being their #1 and Kane being #2 so although they MAY have actually taken Kane if they had the #1 OA it still shows that they were very high on JVR. In just his 2nd season on the Flyers he won our teams fastest skater comp and hardest shot comp.

If I'm the Flyers I don't think I'd do this deal though it is tempting. We usually pick in the 20-30 range and actually have a pretty good record of drafting quality players in that range (Richards, Giroux, & Gagne just to name a few) and I think we can draft players like Hodgson and Shirokov on our own. I'd like to see us either sign a UFA goalie or just let either of our own 2 prospects develope over trading JVR to get Schneider. JVR is a piece we CAN'T draft on our own with picking in the mid 20's. He's the kind of player you only get by picking in the top 6 and we NEED to hold on to him.


Nice proposal, but I'd still just keep JVR. Thanks.

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:15 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
From the outside looking in, the Nucks need to add a talented roster player to this.
maybe switch
Shirokov
for
Samuelsson

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Nice proposal, but I'd still just keep JVR. Thanks.
Exactly.

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:21 PM
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If I'm giving up jvr in a trade, I'd rather it be for an already proven star. While those 3 are nice pieces, they havent proven anything yet. JVR is becoming a star.

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05-20-2011, 01:24 PM
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SlappyMcGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Fair trade. Very close to saying yes but no deal. JVR gave us a glimpse of what he can become. He was easily our best player in the play-offs. Looks very similar to Giroux in terms of development
Not Briere?

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SlappyMcGee View Post
Not Briere?
In the Boston series yes JVR WAS our best player and it wasn't even close. JVR was getting doublt shifted A LOT. It was JVR who was our on-ice leader, putting it ALL out there, not Briere nor Richards nor anyone else. Now I understand many guys were playing through injuries but there is no way that a 2nd year player should be your best on-ice player when you have the leaders and experience the Flyers have on their team, injuries or not.

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:32 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
In the Boston series yes JVR WAS our best player and it wasn't even close. JVR was getting doublt shifted A LOT. It was JVR who was our on-ice leader, putting it ALL out there, not Briere nor Richards nor anyone else. Now I understand many guys were playing through injuries but there is no way that a 2nd year player should be your best on-ice player when you have the leaders and experience the Flyers have on their team, injuries or not.
Remember when he was a bust

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Old
05-20-2011, 01:34 PM
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Not Briere?
I vividly recall J-V-R chants from the crowd during almost everyone one of his shifts.

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Old
05-20-2011, 02:01 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
comp.If I'm the Flyers I don't think I'd do this deal though it is tempting. We usually pick in the 20-30 range and actually have a pretty good record of drafting quality players in that range (Richards, Giroux, & Gagne just to name a few) and I think we can draft players like Hodgson and Shirokov on our own. I'd like to see us either sign a UFA goalie or just let either of our own 2 prospects develope over trading JVR to get Schneider. JVR is a piece we CAN'T draft on our own with picking in the mid 20's. He's the kind of player you only get by picking in the top 6 and we NEED to hold on to him.
Not without draft picks, you can't.

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05-20-2011, 02:47 PM
  #14
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Hell no.

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Old
05-20-2011, 02:50 PM
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JVR21
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I've heard that Hodsgon has regressed? A few years ago he was a top prospect in the league, but I think injuries have slowed him down. Still, Schneider is not the goalie we need (although I would like to have him). We need a veteran like Vokoun who can do what he needs to do for a couple years and then Bob can take over.

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05-20-2011, 02:55 PM
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Flyers don't need more centers so Hodgson is kinda worthless here

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Old
05-20-2011, 03:03 PM
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phlocky
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
I've heard that Hodsgon has regressed? A few years ago he was a top prospect in the league, but I think injuries have slowed him down. Still, Schneider is not the goalie we need (although I would like to have him). We need a veteran like Vokoun who can do what he needs to do for a couple years and then Bob can take over.

Hodgson had a pretty serious back injury that made him miss the entire 09/10 season IIRC. I don't think he can skate as well as he used to and he's no longer viewed as the offensive threat he once was. Because of the injury, he has had to redefine his game and is now viewed as a potentially very good 2-way, shut down type center. If he is not traded then Kesler will likely be the Canucks #2 center and 2nd scoring line while Hodgson will become their shut-down guy up the middle. For us, he would likely permit Richards to move into an offensive role on the 2nd line and Hodgson would be the 3rd line, shut down center for us. He SHOULD end up being almost as good as either Richards or Kesler as a shut-down center. THAT is how good he still projects to be.

However, on the flyers we already have Carter, Briere and Giroux all vying for the center spot on our 2 scoring lines and if we were to then bump Richards up into that mix too then we REALLY become top heavy at the scoring center position. Ultimately we NEED JVR on the wing much more than we need Richards on one of our 2 scoring lines. The Flyers are a stronger team offensively with JVR than they would be with Hodgson + Shirokov. Our goalie issues can be addressed without having to deal JVR.

If the Flyers were to deal one of Richards, Carter, Giroux or JVR then they really wouldn't be looking for more forwards in return. Young forwards whom are exceptional (as this point, JVR is the only one of those 4 who ISN'T an allstar and that will likely change next season) is the strong point for the Flyers. They don't have any future #1 dmen and I believe that if they were to deal one of them that it would be to get someone like Bogo.

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Old
05-20-2011, 03:22 PM
  #18
Luck 6
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
I've heard that Hodsgon has regressed? A few years ago he was a top prospect in the league, but I think injuries have slowed him down. Still, Schneider is not the goalie we need (although I would like to have him). We need a veteran like Vokoun who can do what he needs to do for a couple years and then Bob can take over.
Hodgson hasn't regressed, he just missed a year out of his development. Despite stats in the AHL, he was the best player on the ice most nights as he does all the little things right. He's playing in the NHL this post season as our 4th line center, he doesn't get many minutes but atleast he's getting used to the speed. His injuries are behind him, and he'll still be a great NHLer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10KeithLeClair25 View Post
Flyers don't need more centers so Hodgson is kinda worthless here
I agree, but Hodgson can play wing. Keep in mind he led the WJC tournament in scoring while playing on Tavares wing a few years back.




The reason I'd trade these guys for JVR is because he's exactly the kind of player we need in Van to improve next season. There aren't many things we NEED, but a top 6 power forward who we can fit under the cap would do wonders for us. Plus, when Samuelsson is out the season after we'll be able to replace him from within, and still focus on bringing Schroeder and Rodin a long slowly. I can see why Flyers fans don't want to give up on JVR, he's gonna be a heck of a player.

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Old
05-20-2011, 03:29 PM
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To all us Canuck fans this is a message. Just like when we are proposing for Parise (and it is either Edler (or a signed Ehroff) going their way. With Philly they want Luongo not Schneider. Philly is not looking for another potential starter they have one in Bobrovsky. They are looking for a Vezina-calibre goaltender who is capable of that in the 11-12 Season.

And at the WJC The only time Hodgson played on Tavares' wing was on the PP (as he is good at controling the play on the sideboards (like Hemsky in Edmonton) Other than that he was the 2nd (ish he usually played more than Tavares) line Center on a line with Zach Boychuk and Jordan Eberle.

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Old
05-20-2011, 03:37 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Hodgson had a pretty serious back injury that made him miss the entire 09/10 season IIRC. I don't think he can skate as well as he used to and he's no longer viewed as the offensive threat he once was. Because of the injury, he has had to redefine his game and is now viewed as a potentially very good 2-way, shut down type center. If he is not traded then Kesler will likely be the Canucks #2 center and 2nd scoring line while Hodgson will become their shut-down guy up the middle. For us, he would likely permit Richards to move into an offensive role on the 2nd line and Hodgson would be the 3rd line, shut down center for us. He SHOULD end up being almost as good as either Richards or Kesler as a shut-down center. THAT is how good he still projects to be.

However, on the flyers we already have Carter, Briere and Giroux all vying for the center spot on our 2 scoring lines and if we were to then bump Richards up into that mix too then we REALLY become top heavy at the scoring center position. Ultimately we NEED JVR on the wing much more than we need Richards on one of our 2 scoring lines. The Flyers are a stronger team offensively with JVR than they would be with Hodgson + Shirokov. Our goalie issues can be addressed without having to deal JVR.

If the Flyers were to deal one of Richards, Carter, Giroux or JVR then they really wouldn't be looking for more forwards in return. Young forwards whom are exceptional (as this point, JVR is the only one of those 4 who ISN'T an allstar and that will likely change next season) is the strong point for the Flyers. They don't have any future #1 dmen and I believe that if they were to deal one of them that it would be to get someone like Bogo.
Hodgson was never a good skater and has improved his skating a lot! also Hodgson hasn't had to redefine his game, where did you hear this?. Hodgson lost a year of development but his injuries are behind him now and he can/should still be the player we hoped him to be before the injury.

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Old
05-20-2011, 03:43 PM
  #21
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Although the value is actually pretty close, the flyers say no simply because there's nothing in that package that fills a need more than just keeping Jvr would. We do not need a young unproven goalie, as we already have 2 of them in re system that have loads of potential (bobrovksy and eriksson). We already have an abundance of centers, so hodgson is already worth less than Jvr to us in that aspect, and shirokov is essentially just a downgrade from Jvr at this point.

While I appreciate the effort in making the value equal, the flyers would rather just keep Jvr, as he is starting to really show flashes of absolute dominance. We had him pegged as our number 1 prospect that year for a reason, and I really really doubt the organization has any interest in moving him. He and giroux are the future of this team.

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Old
05-20-2011, 06:42 PM
  #22
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Agreed with most posters. Value looks right... trade doesn't make sense.

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Old
05-20-2011, 07:19 PM
  #23
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I hate the flyers and even I will admit jvr is a stud. He keeps getting better every year. Those are the kind of young guys u strive to get no way u deal him for unknown commodities.

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Old
05-20-2011, 07:25 PM
  #24
SeanVT395
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Do not want.

Both teams are better off letting their respective players develop. No need for Vancouver to gut their top end prospects and likewise for Philadelphia and a player with star potential. They've already invested 4 years in his development. Why do this now?

I like the trade value if I were from a neutral standpoint

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Old
05-20-2011, 07:55 PM
  #25
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JVR would be awesome to have on the 2nd line with Kesler but the cost to get him would be a lot like Hodgson, Raymond, Scheider and pick(s) it'll just be way too much for Vancouver to pay.

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