The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
Hamilton II: The City, The League, and The Coliseum
The OHL. won't work in Hamilton because Hamilton is a large city & Copps Coliseum is big for an OHL. team & the only thing this city will accept is an NHL. team & nothing less . When you think about it the OHL. is more for small to medium size cities like Kitchener , London , Barrie ect. & Hamilton is a large major city that is ment more for the NHL. not the OHL. but on the other hand Vancouver seem to make work with both the WHL. & NHL. maybe Hamilton can to but the only way they can do that is they leave Copps Coliseum to the pros & play in a smaller arena .
I have to disagree, I think there's a huge appetite in Hamilton for Major Junior. Thanks to the World Junior Championships the interest in junior hockey has exploded, and has come a long way from the days of the Dukes of Hamilton. I also hear from a lot of fans that won't support the Bulldogs but will support a junior team. With the right marketing and pricing, I think the OHL could absolutely bury the AHL.
What is also interesting is that OHL only gets to use Copps if the Bulldogs don't stay otherwise they might looking into building their own...
I have to disagree, I think there's a huge appetite in Hamilton for Major Junior. Thanks to the World Junior Championships the interest in junior hockey has exploded, and has come a long way from the days of the Dukes of Hamilton. I also hear from a lot of fans that won't support the Bulldogs but will support a junior team. With the right marketing and pricing, I think the OHL could absolutely bury the AHL.
What is also interesting is that OHL only gets to use Copps if the Bulldogs don't stay otherwise they might looking into building their own...
I'm with ya, I can't see how the OHL is a bad idea. Ottawa-Gat has the 67s and the Olympiques, both teams hugely supported. Major jr, is a great product and unlike AHL your not some other City's farm team.
One of the more interesting aspects deals with the Bulldogs...
Quote:
Andlauer has long vowed to keep high-level hockey in Hamilton and says he would still prefer for that to be the AHL. However, he says if the Canadiens withdraw their farm team — his affiliation agreement ends after the 2012-13 season and there have been loud rumblings the Habs want to make their minor-league team the anchor tenant in the new Laval arena — and if no other AHL opportunity was available, he’d be interested in becoming part of a local OHL franchise. Possibly using the established Bulldogs name and logo for the new squad.
“My commitment to keeping the Bulldogs in Hamilton is sincere,” he said. “In what form that would take, I don’t know.”
That's what I would call "the best of both worlds"...
I think this might also be the first time a franchise has relocated three times to the same city...
I have to disagree, I think there's a huge appetite in Hamilton for Major Junior. Thanks to the World Junior Championships the interest in junior hockey has exploded, and has come a long way from the days of the Dukes of Hamilton. I also hear from a lot of fans that won't support the Bulldogs but will support a junior team. With the right marketing and pricing, I think the OHL could absolutely bury the AHL.
What is also interesting is that OHL only gets to use Copps if the Bulldogs don't stay otherwise they might looking into building their own...
I hope your right about the ohl what does concern me a bit is people said the same other markets they said there is a big appetite for major jr they got the teams in attendance was not and is not great.
The OHL. won't work in Hamilton because Hamilton is a large city & Copps Coliseum is big for an OHL. team & the only thing this city will accept is an NHL. team & nothing less . When you think about it the OHL. is more for small to medium size cities like Kitchener , London , Barrie ect. & Hamilton is a large major city that is ment more for the NHL. not the OHL. but on the other hand Vancouver seem to make work with both the WHL. & NHL. maybe Hamilton can to but the only way they can do that is they leave Copps Coliseum to the pros & play in a smaller arena .
thruth be told i wish we had a Kitchener/London/Barrie mentality rather than a big city mentality like Toronto (if thats the case) seems like those cities are more fun.
thruth be told i wish we had a Kitchener/London/Barrie mentality rather than a big city mentality like Toronto (if thats the case) seems like those cities are more fun.
You mean like, there is nothing to do here lets runaway to Toronto
i guess, if you call having your soul stolen once inside the city fun..
I'm actually working fairly frequently in Toronto of late. I've been working background on a new television series called Copper. It's a Canadian/UK co-production and they built this incredibly beautiful and elaborate set, in former autoparts factory, designed to emulate New York City in the 1860s. I've been having a blast, I get to dress up in a period costume, and we've been having long days so I've already grossed over $2700 on just eight days work.
Most OHL buildings now are essentially mini NHL arenas. When the upper deck is curtained off, Copps becomes something like that. With 9,500 seats in the lower bowl it would be almost the same size as the John Labbatt Centre in London where the Knights play to full houses.
Robertson believes a minimum of 4,000 fans a game in Hamilton would be a reasonable expectation. That’s almost exactly what the Bulldogs are drawing this season. By Burke’s numbers, that would make the franchise profitable and sustainable. Not to mention, using Copps would open the door to hosting the Memorial Cup or World Junior championship, or both.
I'm actually working fairly frequently in Toronto of late. I've been working background on a new television series called Copper. It's a Canadian/UK co-production and they built this incredibly beautiful and elaborate set, in former autoparts factory, designed to emulate New York City in the 1860s. I've been having a blast, I get to dress up in a period costume, and we've been having long days so I've already grossed over $2700 on just eight days work.
The best part?
At the end of the day I get to leave Toronto...
Lol.. I hear yah, I've worked in Mississauga/Brampton for a decade plus.. Use to live in Mississauga in my early 20's.. I'll put up with the commute thank you much.
I'm getting pumped up over the idea of OHL coming here. Especially since it's like a 2 minute walk to the arena.. I can't wait to take my youngest there and my oldest is a Owen Sound Attack fan..
I'm getting pumped up over the idea of OHL coming here. Especially since it's like a 2 minute walk to the arena.. I can't wait to take my youngest there and my oldest is a Owen Sound Attack fan..
GO OTTERS
You know, so am I. Sure the Kitchener Rangers and Guelph Storm are closer, but this is my team. My first ever hockey game featured the Hamilton Red Wings and the Soo Greyhounds playing the old Hamilton Forum. I remember the 2nd and last Memorial Cup won by the Hamilton Fincups. The very last game I saw featuring a Hamilton jr. team was the Hamilton Fincups playing (once again) the Soo Greyhounds at the Mountain Arena (which happens to be near where I grew up). The Hounds whipped the Fincups something like 10-1. I think it had to something to do with this kid wearing number 9, Wayne Gretzky or something like that...
I never did get to see their third incarnation, the Steelhawks play. I did have some of their players as classmates in High School...
I've always been perplexed by the Otters existence... Pennsylvania in the Ontario league? Well, I can picture the otters
The same reason there was a team in Maine ... and also Plattsburgh (new york state) back in the 80s ... territory. If one of the three leagues has a team in a province / state, then it becomes there territory. If there is no team, then it becomes first come first serve sort of thing (I cant remember if a player is able to declare himself for x league..). An example is Adam Mcquaid - PEI born but yet played in the OHL because when he was drafted by the Wolves. PEI did not yet have a team.
Lol.. I hear yah, I've worked in Mississauga/Brampton for a decade plus.. Use to live in Mississauga in my early 20's.. I'll put up with the commute thank you much.
So you almost made it to Toronto, whatever floats your boat.
“In advance of Monday’s meeting, I have been asked by the parties directly responsible for the OHL team seeking permission to play at the Mountain Arena to defer our staff Hockey Report,” Murray wrote.
“It’s my understanding that additional matters still need to be addressed by the parties involved. I will update all Members of Council as to a potential date once I am advised.”
What is really interesting is that the MOU was initially signed on Dec. 21. They can really keep a secret...
Wait..... I'm confused..... why would you guys be more excited about getting an OHL team versus having an AHL team? I can understand Victoria last year being more psyched about getting an WHL team back then they were for their previously existing ECHL team (didn't help that they had a ridiculous name and logo), but the level of play in the AHL is damn good.
Wait..... I'm confused..... why would you guys be more excited about getting an OHL team versus having an AHL team? I can understand Victoria last year being more psyched about getting an WHL team back then they were for their previously existing ECHL team (didn't help that they had a ridiculous name and logo), but the level of play in the AHL is damn good.
I know you Americans don't get it, but it has lot to do with the culture up here. Major junior up here represents the top level for 16-20 year old players. The stars of the NHL start here. There is also the fact that each franchise isn't subject to the whims of a parent club. Each team can build a winner through the draft or through trades. We also get to play other communties that we are actually familiar with rather than obscure communities like Utica, or Lowell, or Providence.
Of course the biggest factor is the World Jr. Championship. It's become so huge in this country that many people want to see these players beyond just the two weeks after Christmas.
For me personally, this franchise, The Otters, used to be the junior team I grew up with, The Red Wings, The Fincups (Memorial Cup Winner in '77), the Steelhawks. This was my team, Hamilton's team and hopefully it's coming home...
Guess that's just an odd divide between Americans and Canadians, then. I freaking love minor league hockey and baseball and try to go to games as often as possible, even knowing that the lion's share of 'em will never see the light of day in the show and those that do probably won't ever be a household name.
Just kind of get mind-boggled when I've heard people trash the level of play in the AHL, as it actually is competitively high, and I've been to a load of ECHL games this year, too.
.... though, now that I think about it, didn't major junior hockey flounder in Newfoundland and they were freaking ecstatic about getting an AHL team back in St. John's this past year?
apparently arena was only issue with previous attempts..
"Perhaps the person who’s in the best position to know if this could work is Bill Burke.
The owner of the Niagara IceDogs runs his team on a budget he says is near the league average. Most games are sold out at the ancient Jack Gatecliff Arena in St. Catharines. Yet in five years he’s never made money on his investment.
The problem is the arena. It’s too small — he says 3,500 paying fans is roughly the break-even point for the OHL — and too old. In short, it’s almost exactly the same as Mountain Arena is now.
Not long ago, Burke told city council there if they didn’t build a new facility, he’d have to move. Councillors voted to construct a $45-million, 4,500-seat arena with the amenities a modern team needs to turn even a small profit. It’ll be ready in 2014. Burke promptly signed a 20-year lease.
He wouldn’t mind filling some of those seats with fans from Hamilton. While this city likely falls in his protected territory, Burke says he would welcome a new rival anticipating it would pull more Hamiltonians into his building when the new team visited.
“I wouldn’t veto it,” he says.
His break-even number is part of the reason Robertson thinks Copps could work."
.... though, now that I think about it, didn't major junior hockey flounder in Newfoundland and they were freaking ecstatic about getting an AHL team back in St. John's this past year?
Atlantic Canada doesn't have the history with major junior that the RoC does, so for many people there the Q was a step down. This was exasperated in St. John's as they came into the league a decade later than the Maritime teams.
Think of it as having to pick between a college football game and an AFL game.
Guess that's just an odd divide between Americans and Canadians, then. I freaking love minor league hockey and baseball and try to go to games as often as possible, even knowing that the lion's share of 'em will never see the light of day in the show and those that do probably won't ever be a household name.
Just kind of get mind-boggled when I've heard people trash the level of play in the AHL, as it actually is competitively high, and I've been to a load of ECHL games this year, too.
.... though, now that I think about it, didn't major junior hockey flounder in Newfoundland and they were freaking ecstatic about getting an AHL team back in St. John's this past year?
I like minor hockey, it's fine for a night out, but for an increasing number of Canadians, junior hockey is the equivalent of college basketball and football is to Americans. It's big city vs. small town on an even playing field and we get to watch the next superstars of the NHL play, the best players for their age bracket.
When I was a kid, I got to watch Wayne Gretzky wearing number 9 for the Soo Greyhounds. Okay I actually don't remember seeing him, it was all a blur, but I remember the buzz in the arena, even though it was in Hamilton and they were playing the Fincups, everyone was talking about Wayne. You don't get that with the AHL, you will never see the next Wayne Gretzky, or Mario Lemieux or Sydney Crosby play in the that league, you will only get to see them in the CHL...
Of course with Newfoundland, it's a bit of a different culture there...
