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Hamilton II: The City, The League, and The Coliseum

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05-31-2011, 07:42 PM
  #126
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
That likely means tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in indemnification fees (on top of purchase/relocation or expansion price and other expenses for arena work).
If it were in Toronto proper, say Downsview, Markham or Mississauga ya, your absolutely correct. The indemnification payments would so punitive as to virtually guarantee the first group goes bust. But the 2nd group, they might have a chance to turn a small profit because they'd be able to buy in at a far more realistic figure than paying an Expansion/Relo Fee, building an arena etc.

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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
Really doubt it mate. Try 10-15 years.
You may be correct. I dont like the Hammers chances under this particular Commissioner for obvious reasons. Either he does a 180 & swallows his pride, maybe has no other option as was the case with letting Atlanta go, or he retires in 5yrs when his contract expires & an enlightened individual steps in; MLSE is under new ownership & mgmnt willing to be reasonable; Buffalo could use the cash.

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05-31-2011, 08:06 PM
  #127
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Still not buying Hamilton's chances of ever landing an NHL team. Toronto and Buffalo would both demand a significant indemnity to let a team move in at best, and would work their butts off to rally BoG opposition to such a relocation at worst.

If Canada's going to get an 8th team (make it eight?), Quebec City is hands down the only realistic candidate. Decent sized market with a fairly recent history in the league, with a very wealthy potential ownership group, located far enough away from the nearest NHL franchise so as to not necessitate an indemnity payment, and with plans on the books for a brand new arena. Pretty much everything that the NHL would want in a market. The only question would be if Quebec City or Kansas City are higher up on the relocation totem pole in the league's eyes.

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05-31-2011, 09:43 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Blue'sClues View Post
Gabe Macaluso, formerally in charge of HECFI, the people that run Copps and other entertainment venues in Hamilton, has told all what needs to happen if Hamilton is to ever get a team.

Gabe says he was told by the NHL, I believe it was Bettman but not 100%, that if Hamilton wanted an NHL team he'd better come walking down the aisle with Toronto on his right and Buffalo on his left.

Many people choose to believe that the territorial rights clause in the NHL constitution isn't legal....... they might be right about the legalities but it's still in play today.
Gabe Macaluso is the same guy who stole from HECFI's till to feed his gambling addiction. He has impaired judgement on his best days.

Doesn't mean he's wrong, I just tend to tune him out whenever he has something.

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05-31-2011, 10:00 PM
  #129
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From the above linked National Post article...

Quote:
Do you think there will be a ‘Make it Eight’ campaign anytime soon?
“I think, right now, the goal and objective is to find someone with deep pockets who is interested both in the NHL and hockey in Hamilton.”
There was an article waaaay back last September during time of the Hockeyville exhibition game that Bill Daly said that there was a 'party' that was interested in bringing hockey to Hamilton.

So obviously either that party has had second thoughts, doesn't qualify as having 'deep pockets' or it just something that Daly or Bettman say about every market, which, if that's the case, the recent comments about Seattle should be cast with a jaundiced eye...

I will keep the faith regardless....

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05-31-2011, 10:10 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
The only question would be if Quebec City or Kansas City are higher up on the relocation totem pole in the league's eyes.
I suspect Quebec would trump KC as Quebecor brings with it a fairly substantive stream of broadcasting revenues through its french language cable sports network, radio & print mediums. Interesting question. Until such time as someone either steps up & makes an offer to buy a distressed team & move them there or a team decides to relo to KC with its existing ownership we may never know.

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05-31-2011, 10:14 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I suspect Quebec would trump KC as Quebecor brings with it a fairly substantive stream of broadcasting revenues through its french language cable sports network, radio & print mediums. Interesting question. Until such time as someone either steps up & makes an offer to buy a distressed team & move them there or a team decides to relo to KC with its existing ownership we may never know.
I agree with this, and I also believe that Hamilton will be next in line after QC. But again, this is depending on whether or not the Yotes actually do move next year... After that it could be a while before Hamilton gets a chance.

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05-31-2011, 10:20 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I suspect Quebec would trump KC as Quebecor brings with it a fairly substantive stream of broadcasting revenues through its french language cable sports network, radio & print mediums. Interesting question. Until such time as someone either steps up & makes an offer to buy a distressed team & move them there or a team decides to relo to KC with its existing ownership we may never know.
Makes sense to me, though I'd still rank 'em tied until Quebec City's arena is completed. Until then, they've gotta be at least on par for the simple fact that Kansas City has a facility ready and raring to go.

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05-31-2011, 11:16 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Makes sense to me, though I'd still rank 'em tied until Quebec City's arena is completed. Until then, they've gotta be at least on par for the simple fact that Kansas City has a facility ready and raring to go.
There are several NHL ready arenas beyond KC without teams in the US as you know, with another couple being built or on the drawing boards. Hopefully when the economy picks up, and barring a lockout or work stoppage, thing'll improve enough to the point that Expansion will be re-considered. Id prefer to have seen Winnipeg, and hope to see Hamilton & QC's arrivals obtained via that method. However, if teams do have to be moved, the *Panthers, Coyotes, the **Islanders, possibly even ***Columbus could be on the March within 10-24mnths.

*and yes, I am aware of the Panthers long-term lease.
**maybe Wang sells for relo, cashes in his chips, moves to Hialeah & bets on horses all day as is his wont?.
***what happens if Columbus cant catch a break on their lease?. No choice. Exit.

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06-01-2011, 12:18 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
thing'll improve enough to the point that Expansion will be re-considered. Id prefer to have seen Winnipeg, and hope to see Hamilton & QC's arrivals obtained via that method.
There aren't 32 viable NHL towns. There might not even be 30.

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Old
06-01-2011, 06:56 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Steve Passless View Post
There aren't 32 viable NHL towns. There might not even be 30.
Probably 24 at worst.

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06-01-2011, 07:57 AM
  #136
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I think that Quebec will get the next relocation and two of Hamilton/Seattle/Portland/Houston/KansasCity will get expansion seats beyond 2015.

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06-01-2011, 10:49 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
From the above linked National Post article...



There was an article waaaay back last September during time of the Hockeyville exhibition game that Bill Daly said that there was a 'party' that was interested in bringing hockey to Hamilton.

So obviously either that party has had second thoughts, doesn't qualify as having 'deep pockets' or it just something that Daly or Bettman say about every market, which, if that's the case, the recent comments about Seattle should be cast with a jaundiced eye...

I will keep the faith regardless....
is that when Katz group was sniffing around?

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06-01-2011, 10:58 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Steve Passless View Post
There aren't 32 viable NHL towns. There might not even be 30.
At present, I completely agree. Frankly, Id like to see a re-shuffling of the deck including Contraction (wont happen). Were stuck with what we've got as the NHL stubbornly hangs on to its ideal "optimal sized league" @30 teams. 4-6 too many IMO.

That being said, if we maintain a 30 team league and relo is the only option the leagues willing to consider (and only as a last resort according to GB), Hamilton & QC's only way in, then Id' be looking at the Coyotes & Panthers as the next wave with a better than good chance of having no other option but to move. Should a "miraculous" turnaround in the economy occur within 5yrs, post Bettmans departure as Commissioner, expansion might, might be re-considered.

Theoretically, I think there are more than 32 viable NHL markets throughout NA however, I doubt there are more than 30 viable ownership groups capable of making a go of it. If there were, St.Louis & Raleigh wouldve' found minority investors by now; the Coyotes deal long ago completed; the Thrashers wouldnt have been forced to move; Florida wouldnt be gasping for air; More than just Gagliardi left standing in Dallas etc etc etc.

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Old
06-01-2011, 11:00 AM
  #139
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http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...eg-hockey-fans

"So Balsillie didn’t get what he sought, but neither did the NHL. Balsillie offered $240 million for the Coyotes and would likely have paid that for the Thrashers too. Two years ago. David Thomson paid $110 million to the Thrashers and another $60 million goes to the league. Tuesday. So as much as Tuesday was a big win on some fronts, it still represents a massive loss for the league. The south has become a no-fly zone and the NHL’s average franchise value has plummeted and that’s extremely important to the other owners and their financial advisers, because it affects their borrowing ceiling, and the rate of interest."

so why not sacrifice another southern team to the Hamilton area which would fetch a large figure to get those Franchise values heading back up again..

and in other news Bulldogs i guess are here to stay, and are out from HECFI's marketing control..

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06-01-2011, 11:03 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
is that when Katz group was sniffing around?
Yes, though technically they've been 'sniffing' around since late June of last year, and, apparently, are still 'sniffing' around.

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06-01-2011, 11:12 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...eg-hockey-fans

"So Balsillie didn’t get what he sought, but neither did the NHL. Balsillie offered $240 million for the Coyotes and would likely have paid that for the Thrashers too. Two years ago. David Thomson paid $110 million to the Thrashers and another $60 million goes to the league. Tuesday. So as much as Tuesday was a big win on some fronts, it still represents a massive loss for the league. The south has become a no-fly zone and the NHL’s average franchise value has plummeted and that’s extremely important to the other owners and their financial advisers, because it affects their borrowing ceiling, and the rate of interest."

so why not sacrifice another southern team to the Hamilton area which would fetch a large figure to get those Franchise values heading back up again..

and in other news Bulldogs i guess are here to stay, and are out from HECFI's marketing control..

So the authors assumption is that the Winnipeg market is equal to the Hamilton market? Because if its not, then I don't know why he's comparing Balsillie's bid with TNSE's.

Additionally, I'm not sure that his numbers are correct. I don't believe Balsillie ever bid 240 million.

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06-01-2011, 11:30 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Yes, though technically they've been 'sniffing' around since late June of last year, and, apparently, are still 'sniffing' around.
if they are i'm hoping to hear news from them or HECFI

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06-01-2011, 11:39 AM
  #143
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Hamilton right now is the only option have right now to move the coyotes after next season & of course things could change from now to the 2012 - 2013 season but as of now Hamilton is the only option for the NHL. & here is why .

Quebec City - Many people think there next in line for a team but there is court challange going on in Quebec City which might drail construction of the new arena for a whille .

Seattle - Still a long way off & won't get a NHL. team back there until a new arena is built & after the NBA . gets back there .

Houston - There seems to be no intrest in bringing an NHL. team there right now not even from Les Alexander .

Kansas City - Well they have a brand new arena all set to go but no ownership group has come forward .

Toronto 2 - Won't happen because of the costs which are est. to be around 1.5 - 2 billion $ & with no goverment funding , no serious ownership group just a lot of here say from the Toronto media , MLSE. will not allow another NHL. team to take root there let alone let them build another arena in basiclly the same area which can take non hockey money & hockey money away from the ACC. .

Hamilton - Has ownership groups waiting in the wings right now wethier it is Balsille or Gaglardi remains to be seen , an arena all set go that can be renovated on the fly & with Katz & AEG. takeing over copps coliseum it is not question of if NHL. team comes to Hamilton it is a question of when .

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06-01-2011, 11:41 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by jessebelanger View Post
So the authors assumption is that the Winnipeg market is equal to the Hamilton market? Because if its not, then I don't know why he's comparing Balsillie's bid with TNSE's.

Additionally, I'm not sure that his numbers are correct. I don't believe Balsillie ever bid 240 million.
240 does sound familiar but i think there was money for Glendale in there aswell

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06-01-2011, 11:45 AM
  #145
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james bid 212.5 million not 240, I don't know where that came from.

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06-01-2011, 12:15 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
james bid 212.5 million not 240, I don't know where that came from.
i think they included the 25 mil to Glendale to make it look better..

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06-01-2011, 12:17 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Hamilton right now is the only option have right now to move the coyotes after next season & of course things could change from now to the 2012 - 2013 season but as of now Hamilton is the only option for the NHL. & here is why .

Quebec City - Many people think there next in line for a team but there is court challange going on in Quebec City which might drail construction of the new arena for a whille .

Seattle - Still a long way off & won't get a NHL. team back there until a new arena is built & after the NBA . gets back there .

Houston - There seems to be no intrest in bringing an NHL. team there right now not even from Les Alexander .

Kansas City - Well they have a brand new arena all set to go but no ownership group has come forward .

Toronto 2 - Won't happen because of the costs which are est. to be around 1.5 - 2 billion $ & with no goverment funding , no serious ownership group just a lot of here say from the Toronto media , MLSE. will not allow another NHL. team to take root there let alone let them build another arena in basiclly the same area which can take non hockey money & hockey money away from the ACC. .

Hamilton - Has ownership groups waiting in the wings right now wethier it is Balsille or Gaglardi remains to be seen , an arena all set go that can be renovated on the fly & with Katz & AEG. takeing over copps coliseum it is not question of if NHL. team comes to Hamilton it is a question of when .
i wish i had your faith

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06-01-2011, 12:18 PM
  #148
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212 million was the original bid for the coyotes but JB up the bid half way through the fiasco to 240 million that included somthing for Glendale .

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06-01-2011, 12:18 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Quebec City - Many people think there next in line for a team but there is court challange going on in Quebec City which might drail construction of the new arena for a whille .
The government will accept a law to protect the agreement between the city and Quebecor. The building is coming in 2015.

I don't think so that Bettman is so keen about Hamilton. He's scared about the old boys club of MLSE.

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06-01-2011, 12:37 PM
  #150
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The government will accept a law to protect the agreement between the city and Quebecor. The building is coming in 2015.

I don't think so that Bettman is so keen about Hamilton. He's scared about the old boys club of MLSE.
I don't think he is scared concerned yes scared no especially if say Balsille comes back to table with an offer that now the NHL. & Glendale can't refuse something like this 310 million dollars to buy & move the coyotes to Hamilton .

Here is how I break down the 310 million
25 million for Buffalo
25 million for MLSE.
25. million for Glendale
60 million for a relocation fee
175 million for the coyotes

I belive that is what it will take for a NHL. team to move to Hamilton .

One last thing with Katz\AEG. buying hecfi & say Balsille dose put another offer to buy the coyotes to move them to Hamilton I don't think MLSE. would stand in the way of thoses 3 billionare jugernauts to putting in Hamilton .

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