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Old
05-23-2011, 04:17 PM
  #26
Shadow Flyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
Gagner and the 19th and the 31st for a future 2nd line center, yeah, you kids know what you're doing alright. Have at're idiots.
Pop Quiz: How many 2nd line centers have averaged 36 goals over the last 4 seasons?


As for the proposal, I doubt the Flyers would go for it, for a couple of reasons.....

1) Gagner wouldn't be the centerpiece, as the last thing Philly needs is another center (not to mention the fact that the Flyers could actually use more size and physicality upfront, not less).

2) The Flyers would either move Carter straight across for a premier goalie, or trade him to clear a sizable chunk of cap space to land a premier goalie in free agency. If they took a roster player as part of the deal, that player would be cheap, and that player wouldn't be a center.

This isn't me trying to bash the proposal, just stating why it likely wouldn't make sense from a Philly perspective. If they traded Carter to Edmonton, Philly would most likely ask for an MPS type of player + a decent pick. And that's if Flyers management is even thinking of trading Carter at all, which I really doubt they are.

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05-23-2011, 04:35 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
If Jeff Carter can't lead the Flyers then why the frigg do we want him here....because he's almost good enough? He's a second line center at best on a good hockey club, a poor mans Mike Richards.....that's a gross over payment to begin with, get off the pot.

Gagner and the 19th and the 31st for a future 2nd line center, yeah, you kids know what you're doing alright. Have at'er idiots. I'll take my chances that a Couturier,Strome or Huberdeau surpasses what Carter can do.

You sir are the idiot. Give yourself a pat on the back for that post. Here's a quick year in review of the two players you mentioned in your post.

GP G A PTS S FO%
Jeff Carter 80 36 30 66 335 54.7
Mike Richard 81 23 43 66 184 49.8

Almost looks to me like Richards is a poor man's Carter. And the prospects you mentioned surpassing Carter....time will tell, but I take sure things over gambles any day of the week. Wow...

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05-23-2011, 04:37 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
Pop Quiz: How many 2nd line centers have averaged 36 goals over the last 4 seasons?
LOL. Edmonton would turn Jeff Carter or Mike Richards into a 15 goal scorer in two yrs. Carter has a pretty good team around him in Philadelphia, put him on a dead last place team 2 yrs running and i feel those numbers will drop of considerably. Just think the Oilers are better off having a group of kids gel together like the kids did together in Philly. It's the 6 mill per over the next 10 yrs that has me scared off, don't know what kind of player Carter will be in 5, let alone 7 or 8.

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05-23-2011, 04:42 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
If Jeff Carter can't lead the Flyers then why the frigg do we want him here....because he's almost good enough? He's a second line center at best on a good hockey club, a poor mans Mike Richards.....that's a gross over payment to begin with, get off the pot.

Gagner and the 19th and the 31st for a future 2nd line center, yeah, you kids know what you're doing alright. Have at'er idiots. I'll take my chances that a Couturier,Strome or Huberdeau surpasses what Carter can do.
Yup, and Pavel Datsyuk couldn't lead the Red Wings, Toews couldn't lead the Hawks, Richards couldn't lead the Stars etc.

I'm honestly wondering if you just make your posts for shock value, because there is no other explanation.

There have been logical arguments going both ways on this deal, but not only does your comment lack logic or rationality, but it's also sad that you had to call everyone idiots, especially after a comment like that? Hypocritical no?

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Old
05-23-2011, 04:43 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
LOL. Edmonton would turn Jeff into a 15 goals scorer in two yrs. Carter has a pretty good team around him in Philadelphia, put him on a dead last place team 2 yrs running and i feel those numbers will drop of considerably. Just think the Oilers are better off having a group of kids gel together like the kids did together in Philly.
Oh, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, and I'm not saying Edmonton should move out any kids or high picks for any player, be it Jeff Carter or whoever. I personally don't think the Oilers are at the stage where they should be trading any prime assets for roster players. In another year or so, that may change.

That said, and even though Carter has his flaws, he's a legit #1 center (which was my point). Guys who average 36 goals a season over 4 years are not 2nd line centers (regardless of ice time or linemates). He's also very good defensively, which most people (even tons of Flyers fans) almost always ignore. Jeff Carter is one of the better two-way centers in the league.

I don't want to trade him, and I don't think Edmonton should give up any of their young assets at this time either. I'm just tryin' to shed some light on what might work for a Philly-Edmonton swap, if that were to occur.

In short, Gagner wouldn't be coming back the other way for Jeff Carter. Nothing close to what the Flyers need in a roster player.

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05-23-2011, 04:50 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilCountry84 View Post
You sir are the idiot. Give yourself a pat on the back for that post. Here's a quick year in review of the two players you mentioned in your post.

GP G A PTS S FO%
Jeff Carter 80 36 30 66 335 54.7
Mike Richard 81 23 43 66 184 49.8

Almost looks to me like Richards is a poor man's Carter. And the prospects you mentioned surpassing Carter....time will tell, but I take sure things over gambles any day of the week. Wow...
Jeff Carter is A, not available, and B, why would he want to come to a deadlast place club with zero committment to winning for the next 3 yrs. By then he could very well be spent/past his prime......whatever you say kid. The game of hockey is a moving target, things change routinely on a yearly basis. Why make this kind of commitment before you know anything about the player.


Last edited by Moneypuck: 05-23-2011 at 04:55 PM.
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Old
05-23-2011, 04:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
Oh, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, and I'm not saying Edmonton should move out any kids or high picks for any player, be it Jeff Carter or whoever. I personally don't think the Oilers are at the stage where they should be trading any prime assets for roster players. In another year or so, that may change.

That said, and even though Carter has his flaws, he's a legit #1 center (which was my point). Guys who average 36 goals a season over 4 years are not 2nd line centers (regardless of ice time or linemates). He's also very good defensively, which most people (even tons of Flyers fans) almost always ignore. Jeff Carter is one of the better two-way centers in the league.

I don't want to trade him, and I don't think Edmonton should give up any of their young assets at this time either. I'm just tryin' to shed some light on what might work for a Philly-Edmonton swap, if that were to occur.

In short, Gagner wouldn't be coming back the other way for Jeff Carter. Nothing close to what the Flyers need in a roster player.
You've made a couple of good, logical, level headed posts here Shadow Flyer, unlike some posters. Good points, very well stated!

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05-23-2011, 05:01 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
Jeff Carter is A, not available, and B, why would he want to come to a deadlast place club with zero committment to winning for the next 3 yrs. By then he could very well be spent/past his prime......whatever you say kid. The game of hockey is a moving target, things change routinely on a yearly basis. Why make this kind of commitment before you know anything about the player.
a) Stop calling people kids. It's childish

b) How do you know Carter is not available?

c) I would think trading for Carter would be a sign of a commitment to win (obviously other signings/deals would need to follow).

d) Before we know anything about the player? Large center who was 55% on the dot and has 144 goals over the last 4 seasons (average of 36 a year). Yup, we know nothing about him. We make this kind of commitment BECAUSE we know he is a good player. We're still unsure if Gagner will ever make the next step, and our picks at 19 and 31 aren't guaranteed to be NHLer's.

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Old
05-23-2011, 05:03 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
You've made a couple of good, logical, level headed posts here Shadow Flyer, unlike some posters. Good points, very well stated!
Thanks. I don't normally post on other teams' boards because I don't wanna get in the middle of a **** storm. Happens enough on our own board, to be sure.

Seriously, I'm not a GM (obviously), so there's no reason to bash anyone on here, whether they agree with my assessment or not. I just like talking hockey.

I'd like to think the reasoning behind my posts makes some sense but, in the end, I'm just a guy on the internet with an opinion. Combine my opinion with a dollar and you might just be able to buy yourself a cup of coffee.

*shrugs*

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Old
05-23-2011, 05:22 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
Jeff Carter is A, not available, and B, why would he want to come to a deadlast place club with zero committment to winning for the next 3 yrs. By then he could very well be spent/past his prime......whatever you say kid. The game of hockey is a moving target, things change routinely on a yearly basis. Why make this kind of commitment before you know anything about the player.
And when did your conversation with Mr.Bobby Clark occur when he told you Carter isn't available? If Gretzky could be traded, pretty sure Carter could too. My knowledge on Carter seems to be superior to yours so not too sure what gibberish you're talking about with your last sentence. But whatever you say gramps....


Last edited by 488McFitter: 05-23-2011 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Spelling error
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Old
05-23-2011, 06:43 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Carter is signed to an 11 year deal at nearly a 6 million cap hit. That's far too long. Don't get me wrong, he's a good player and I don't think the Flyers do this deal, but that is a long time to be committed to a player.
Would you rather be committed to mediocrity?

Just saying.

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Old
05-23-2011, 07:24 PM
  #37
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i'm personally not committed to mediocrity, but at the same time i'm not committed to trading roster players AND prospects AND draft choices for ONE player! i see these threads all over the net and it drives me nuts!! and i hope the Oilers are committed to being patient because i suspect some fans are already losing patience after a couple of losing seasons, and are ready to trade the farm and the future for immediate help.


Last edited by ManByng: 05-23-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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Old
05-23-2011, 07:27 PM
  #38
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That won't fetch you Carter unfortunately.

If we're going to deal with Philly, I wonder if they'd do something like the 19th for their first rounder in 2012? They have no first this year, so if they're high on some player, maybe it could get done. We could add LA's 3rd or something. There's a lot more depth next year in the draft of course, so I think it's a good game plan to acquire another 1st in 2012.

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05-23-2011, 11:31 PM
  #39
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Works for both teams but I don't like Jeff Carter.

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Old
05-24-2011, 12:14 AM
  #40
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Stat comparison, same number of years after being drafted

GP-G-A-Pts
---Gagner-----------Carter-----
79-13-36-49________________
76-16-25-41________________
68-15-26-41_____81-23-19-42
68-15-27-42_____62-14-23-37

Just saying.

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Old
05-24-2011, 12:53 AM
  #41
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Lol, philly would never do this. They want to compete now.

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Old
05-24-2011, 01:08 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by TheBusDriver View Post
Lol, philly would never do this. They want to compete now.
To compete they need cap space, to sustain a high level of competition going forward they need quality prospects. This helps to achieve both.

I don't think it makes sense for the Oilers to pull the trigger on something like this just yet (still too far from legitimate competition), but I could see both fanbases being happy with it.

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05-24-2011, 01:37 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
i'm personally not committed to mediocrity, but at the same time i'm not committed to trading roster players AND prospects AND draft choices for ONE player! i see these threads all over the net and it drives me nuts!! and i hope the Oilers are committed to being patient because i suspect some fans are already losing patience after a couple of losing seasons, and are ready to trade the farm and the future for immediate help.
Hfboards Oilers drive me nuts

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Old
05-24-2011, 05:43 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
To compete they need cap space, to sustain a high level of competition going forward they need quality prospects. This helps to achieve both.

I don't think it makes sense for the Oilers to pull the trigger on something like this just yet (still too far from legitimate competition), but I could see both fanbases being happy with it.
Im saying they would try to trade him for a player who can help them win now but for less than carter costs.

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05-24-2011, 06:01 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ToeDrag83 View Post
That won't fetch you Carter unfortunately.

If we're going to deal with Philly, I wonder if they'd do something like the 19th for their first rounder in 2012? They have no first this year, so if they're high on some player, maybe it could get done. We could add LA's 3rd or something. There's a lot more depth next year in the draft of course, so I think it's a good game plan to acquire another 1st in 2012.
I am thinking about next year as well. If its a draft year comparable to 2007 (which I don't think it is) maybe hold out for the next year. The question is a 19th overall pick equivalent to a 2012 24-28th pick of Philadelphia

I think if the Oilers are looking for a trade off of that 19th pick for next year find a team that is at least equivalent in the standings. You could make a trade with Dallas, Minnesota, and many others in that 13th-15th pick by adding a very insignificant piece in fact you might not have to add anything if those teams feel they will be much better next year. Thats a better gamble.

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