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Value of Jack Johnson

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05-23-2011, 07:45 PM
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rlaw88
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Value of Jack Johnson

First and foremost, I find it important to articulate that I'm a Blues fan. Our most pressing need is a top LH d-man to pair with Pietrangelo and there are only a few in the league I'd love to see wearing the Bluenote. That said, Jack Johnson is one of the few.

Is he untouchable? If Blues/Kings did a deal, what would LA want coming back for Johnson? I'm not sure if we'd make good trading partners or not, but I'm honestly just here to figure out what Kings fans would think is a fair return for Johnson.

Thanks in advance!

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05-23-2011, 07:56 PM
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I can't think of a deal that would work, but I'm sure there is one. With the prospect Depth at D I'd say anybody not named Doughty is 'touchable'. That being said, Jack Johnson seems to be (to be fair, he has 'seemed to be' for the past three years) about to finally fill out his game completely. So DL will probably want more than what other GMs would value him at.

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05-23-2011, 07:56 PM
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He can be had for:

Chris Stewart
Kevin Shattenkirk
A conditional second-round draft pick in 2011 or 2012

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05-23-2011, 07:56 PM
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This is tricky. First welcome and best of luck to your notes this coming season. We welcome cool fans from every team here so always feel free to ask any question that you might have or drop any opinion, we like god people around here even if you cheer for the wrong team .

Jack Johnson is a great young player who's value is continuing to grow every year. He hasn't hit his ceiling yet but when he does it looks like he will be as good as predicted. I would say that he could be a true #1 on a young team right now or a #2 on most teams.

He has just signed (last summer) a 7 year cap friendly contract and hasn't turned 25 yet so again, we value him very highly around.

That said, I would say that he could be available but the price would be significant. We would expect a young top 3 sniper with a similar contract. We would want him to be a LW or at least be able to play there.

Have you looked at our farm system? There might be a young Dman that you would be interested down there that could be available for less and while he may not be JJ he isn't too far away from him either...

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05-23-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
This is tricky. First welcome and best of luck to your notes this coming season. We welcome cool fans from every team here so always feel free to ask any question that you might have or drop any opinion, we like god people around here even if you cheer for the wrong team .

Jack Johnson is a great young player who's value is continuing to grow every year. He hasn't hit his ceiling yet but when he does it looks like he will be as good as predicted. I would say that he could be a true #1 on a young team right now or a #2 on most teams.

He has just signed (last summer) a 7 year cap friendly contract and hasn't turned 25 yet so again, we value him very highly around.

That said, I would say that he could be available but the price would be significant. We would expect a young top 3 sniper with a similar contract. We would want him to be a LW or at least be able to play there.

Have you looked at our farm system? There might be a young Dman that you would be interested down there that could be available for less and while he may not be JJ he isn't too far away from him either...
Thanks for the welcome and the responses. I love talking to fans all over the country because they're not jaded--they are more objective about my hometown players and are often easier to talk to because they don't overvalue our guys.

I'm not super familiar with the LA farm system, but I must admit, I think LA is one of the best well-rounded teams in the league. The Kings have offensive and defensive depth and a decent goalie tandem in Quick and Bernier. The Kings are one of my favorite teams to watch for that reason--I'm a huge Kopitar and Doughty fan.

Yet, despite that, I'm only familiar with a handful of guys in the farm system and at this point, I think the Blues need a more established d-man than they get from a farm system. We have Ian Cole who is LH d-man. He has potential to one day be a top pairing guy, but he's not there yet. He also has better chemistry with Shattenkirk, so I'm sure when he does make it to the NHL he'll be paired there.

You say you want a LW back--STL doesn't have much there that I'm sure the Kings would be interested in. Would the Kings have any interest in Steen, McDonald, or Perron? If Perron had been healthy, I think that's a no-brainer, but given his injury in 2010-11, I'm not sure any team wants that gamble right now.

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05-23-2011, 08:44 PM
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Yep


You take away the question mark from Perron and I could see us being able to hammer something out, if only.

Let me take a deeper look at your team and prospects and see if I find anything. I agree that Cole looks like he could be a good one.

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05-23-2011, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Yep


You take away the question mark from Perron and I could see us being able to hammer something out, if only.

Let me take a deeper look at your team and prospects and see if I find anything. I agree that Cole looks like he could be a good one.
The situation with Perron is so frustrating. His season started off looking so good and the hit from Thornton that ended his season didn't even look that bad--no one in STL expected him to miss the whole season. I think it's similar to what happened with Crosby. Nobody expected the face of the NHL to be out for the ENTIRE second half of the season.

We have a lot of promising prospects up front and in goal. Honestly, aside from Cole, we're short on defensive prospects. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Blues take at least one with their three 2nds this year.

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05-23-2011, 09:28 PM
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Kings and Blues just aren't that good of trading partners. Like TG said, Los Angeles needs a 1st line scoring forward.

If LA trades a core piece like Johnson, I would expect it to part of a package to land a big name like Parise, Nash, B. Ryan (none of whom I expect to get BTW).

St. Louis is moving in the right direction. I really liked what I saw from them down the stretch. The EJ trade was EXCELLENT for them. Thus I don't think it makes a lot of sense for the Blues to give up assets on a player like JJ. There's a lot of quality defenseman on the free agent market this year that would make excellent pick ups for St. Louis. I think that's a better route to go.

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05-23-2011, 09:41 PM
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Would you consider Oshie for Johnson a fair exchange? Oshie is a versatile top 6 forward who can play all three slots. He's a two-way guy who puts up decent numbers. He plays the powerplay, penalty kill, five-on-five, shootout. He'd probably look great supplementing the LA top 6.

And I agree with exploring FA options, but IMHO, there aren't guys who are great fits in St. Louis. The most likely guys the Blues would target would be Hejda and Ehrhoff. Both of them will likely receive offers from multiple teams and the Blues don't have the pockets to win a bidding war.

I'm personally not all that impressed with the FA crop this year--I've been hoping for trades instead simply because the quality of assets added to the squad could be better than what's available in free agency.

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05-23-2011, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
Would you consider Oshie for Johnson a fair exchange? Oshie is a versatile top 6 forward who can play all three slots. He's a two-way guy who puts up decent numbers. He plays the powerplay, penalty kill, five-on-five, shootout. He'd probably look great supplementing the LA top 6.
We need forward(s) with vision and creativity, or a sniping finisher. LA already has a lot of pretty versatile forwards.

Quote:
I'm personally not all that impressed with the FA crop this year--I've been hoping for trades instead simply because the quality of assets added to the squad could be better than what's available in free agency.
I disagree. I think there's a lot of solid defenseman on the market; not great, but solid. Some of them would supplement the Blues nicely.


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05-23-2011, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
Would you consider Oshie for Johnson a fair exchange? Oshie is a versatile top 6 forward who can play all three slots. He's a two-way guy who puts up decent numbers. He plays the powerplay, penalty kill, five-on-five, shootout. He'd probably look great supplementing the LA top 6.

And I agree with exploring FA options, but IMHO, there aren't guys who are great fits in St. Louis. The most likely guys the Blues would target would be Hejda and Ehrhoff. Both of them will likely receive offers from multiple teams and the Blues don't have the pockets to win a bidding war.

I'm personally not all that impressed with the FA crop this year--I've been hoping for trades instead simply because the quality of assets added to the squad could be better than what's available in free agency.
Oshie for Johnson is definitely a fair exchange, I love Oshie. That said, it's not one that'll happen because Oshie doesn't fit what LA needs (in my opinion). I don't know the Blues situation, are they hoping to make a push next year? (Every team is always hoping to, of course, but you get my question). LA has way too much D depth to the point that some of it has to be traded. Especially with so many being so similar. I would expect Hickey and Voynov to be great. And if you look at some stats you can argue that Martinez is already better than JJ

I don't think a JJ centered deal will happen. That said, you might be able to get a decent deal for somebody in the LA farm.

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05-23-2011, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
Oshie for Johnson is definitely a fair exchange, I love Oshie. That said, it's not one that'll happen because Oshie doesn't fit what LA needs (in my opinion). I don't know the Blues situation, are they hoping to make a push next year? (Every team is always hoping to, of course, but you get my question). LA has way too much D depth to the point that some of it has to be traded. Especially with so many being so similar. I would expect Hickey and Voynov to be great. And if you look at some stats you can argue that Martinez is already better than JJ

I don't think a JJ centered deal will happen. That said, you might be able to get a decent deal for somebody in the LA farm.
The Blues are definitely hoping to make a push next year. IMO, the rebuild is almost over--we just need a top LH d-man to be a serious contender. The EJ trade was amazing--we really maximized his value on the return.

The Blues seem to have a multitude of wingers and few centers. What are the details on Moller? I heard he went back to Europe, but I also thought he was supposed to be a solid 2nd/potentially 1st line center? He might be of interest to the Blues, in addition to a LH d-man who can play beside Pietrangelo.

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05-23-2011, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
The Blues are definitely hoping to make a push next year. IMO, the rebuild is almost over--we just need a top LH d-man to be a serious contender. The EJ trade was amazing--we really maximized his value on the return.

The Blues seem to have a multitude of wingers and few centers. What are the details on Moller? I heard he went back to Europe, but I also thought he was supposed to be a solid 2nd/potentially 1st line center? He might be of interest to the Blues, in addition to a LH d-man who can play beside Pietrangelo.
Moller isn't a 1st or 2nd line center. If you wanted to inquire about Loktionov and were willing to offer a top six winger with a little size, I am sure Lombardi would at least listen.

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05-24-2011, 12:40 AM
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I'd say the only thing keeping Moller from being a 2nd liner is his size. In a different system he'd thrive. That said, it is only my opinion and I could easily be wrong. Either way, you'd have to give a significant piece to get both Moller and JJ. I doubt it could work considering we wouldn't be interested in draft picks.

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05-24-2011, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
I'd say the only thing keeping Moller from being a 2nd liner is his size. In a different system he'd thrive. That said, it is only my opinion and I could easily be wrong. Either way, you'd have to give a significant piece to get both Moller and JJ. I doubt it could work considering we wouldn't be interested in draft picks.
What about Jarrett Stoll? Have/would/will the Kings shop him?

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05-24-2011, 01:06 AM
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What about Jarrett Stoll? Have/would/will the Kings shop him?
Please ignore the incoming Kurillino post.

I don't think Lombardi would "shop" him but he can definitely be had. He is our best faceoff man and can be used in all situations, not to mention he is money in the shootouts. I'd assume The kings would insist on keeping until they see how Loktionov/Schenn fit in for the upcoming season. Stoll's value on the ice is greater than his value on the trade market imo.

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05-24-2011, 01:59 AM
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JMFJ has a long termcap friendly contract, and contract wise next year is brutal. There will be a lot more flexibility one year and one month from now.

Some young defense has to be traded for a LW, first line sniper-type. We think Hickey or Voynov or both are the next Shattenkirk, but we're worried if Voynov doesn't get ice time he'll leave for Russia, and this is only a concern because D prospect depth is so deep.

Goalie depth is incredibly deep. The two carried by the big club are good values under super cheap contracts. Next summer will see $19 million+ come off the books, and we can trade value for quality. Right now we need the value contracts like Johnson's and can only trade D and goalie prospects, with the ideal return being a first line LW.

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05-24-2011, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Martyros View Post
Please ignore the incoming Kurillino post.

I don't think Lombardi would "shop" him but he can definitely be had. He is our best faceoff man and can be used in all situations, not to mention he is money in the shootouts. I'd assume The kings would insist on keeping until they see how Loktionov/Schenn fit in for the upcoming season. Stoll's value on the ice is greater than his value on the trade market imo.
I think Stoll would look great centering our third line with Steen at LW and Oshie at RW (assuming we don't deal Oshie for that top pairing d-man--his name has been the most talked about among Blues fans). Has Stoll been a 2nd or 3rd line center for you guys? I was super impressed with his presence in the faceoff circle in the series with San Jose.

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05-24-2011, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rlaw88 View Post
Has Stoll been a 2nd or 3rd line center for you guys?
Here in Terry Murray land we don't have lines so much as we have a first line center and everyone else.

How many guys played on Kopitar's left this season? 10? 15?

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05-24-2011, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
Here in Terry Murray land we don't have lines so much as we have a first line center and everyone else.

How many guys played on Kopitar's left this season? 10? 15?
http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpo...ations&sent=go

Off the top of my head, Kopitar had 11 different left wings throughout the season ranging from:

1. Ryan Smyth
2. Dustin Penner
3. Dustin Brown
4. Marco Sturm
5. Andrei Loktionov
6. Brad Richardson
7. Alexei Ponikarovsky
8. Dwight King
9. Scott Parse
10. Kyle Clifford
11. Michal Handzus

To answer the previous question, Stoll is considered the #2 center on the Kings, as the line Handzus is assigned to is primarily used to shutdown the opposition's top scoring line.

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05-24-2011, 10:11 AM
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When I think of Oshie I think of Schenn. That said I would love him on out team. Not sure for JJ though. Is Oshie in the dog house there?

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05-24-2011, 11:18 AM
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rlaw88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
Here in Terry Murray land we don't have lines so much as we have a first line center and everyone else.

How many guys played on Kopitar's left this season? 10? 15?
Wow! Wait...haha. Due to injuries in St. Louis, we did lots of line shuffling as well. I can't tell you how many different wings Backes saw. At one point, Payne was pairing up two "good" players with a filler for each line so that each line would have "some hope." Usually, though, we try to be consistent.

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When I think of Oshie I think of Schenn. That said I would love him on out team. Not sure for JJ though. Is Oshie in the dog house there?
Oshie was in the dog house earlier this season because he missed a practice. Afterwards, the organization seemed to move on. It's just with the addition of Stewart, Oshie becomes a little more expendable. It's hard for Oshie to crack our top 6 even though he's easily a top 6 kind of guy.

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05-25-2011, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Off the top of my head, Kopitar had 11 different left wings throughout the season ranging from:

1. Ryan Smyth
2. Dustin Penner
3. Dustin Brown
4. Marco Sturm
5. Andrei Loktionov
6. Brad Richardson
7. Alexei Ponikarovsky
8. Dwight King
9. Scott Parse
10. Kyle Clifford
11. Michal Handzus
12. John Zeiler
13. Trevor Lewis
14. Jarret Stoll (short-handed if not even strength, I'm not sure)
15. Luc Robitaille
16. Cammi Granato's brother
17. Jim Fox
18. Ilya Kovalchuk's agent
19. The lucky winner in section 323, Row 6, Seat 2

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