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Brewer obviously NOT overpaid

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Old
07-17-2004, 04:57 PM
  #51
Hemsky4PM
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Am I alone in wondering why Brewer was put on Canada's World Cup roster? I didn't agree with it when the team was named, and now, after listening to all the criticisms of him it seems even more amazing that he cracked the team.

It has no bearing on arbitration, but what does it say about Lowe and Gretzky...and Brewer himself...?

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07-17-2004, 06:01 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Am I alone in wondering why Brewer was put on Canada's World Cup roster? I didn't agree with it when the team was named, and now, after listening to all the criticisms of him it seems even more amazing that he cracked the team.

It has no bearing on arbitration, but what does it say about Lowe and Gretzky...and Brewer himself...?
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the kid can stay cool in intense preasure situations.
imho - His level of play was second only to Niedermayer at the WCs.
He did nothing flashy, just effectively did his job.
And remember, he looked pretty good at the '02 Olympics, too.

My eyes saw him getting progressively more solid as last year went on.
Early in the season, tho, I think that his focus may have been distracted by a new girlfriend (now wife).

I don't think he deserves a raise for ~half a year of decent work, tho.

edit - I can't believe that I said Redden, when I meant Scott Niedermayer.
----- or that it took this long to notice it.


Last edited by IceDragoon: 07-19-2004 at 11:17 AM. Reason: my brain was in flux
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Old
07-17-2004, 06:03 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Am I alone in wondering why Brewer was put on Canada's World Cup roster? I didn't agree with it when the team was named, and now, after listening to all the criticisms of him it seems even more amazing that he cracked the team.

It has no bearing on arbitration, but what does it say about Lowe and Gretzky...and Brewer himself...?
Brewer is one of the best defencemen in the league when the chips are down. We've all seen it here, he will struggle early on in the year, but when the games appear to mean more (like during a playoff push, or in the playoffs), he is, IMO one of the top 5 defencemen in the leauge. He takes his game to a level where there aren't any other comparables.

The criticism stems from him not being able to play like that all the time, especially early on in the season.

But if it's during a big game, I'll take Eric on my team any day.

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07-17-2004, 07:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Brewer is one of the best defencemen in the league when the chips are down. We've all seen it here, he will struggle early on in the year, but when the games appear to mean more (like during a playoff push, or in the playoffs), he is, IMO one of the top 5 defencemen in the leauge. He takes his game to a level where there aren't any other comparables.

The criticism stems from him not being able to play like that all the time, especially early on in the season.

But if it's during a big game, I'll take Eric on my team any day.
Sorry dawg, but I feel you are grossly overrating Brewer's performance. He has shown flashes of being one of the best d-men in the league but reality has been Brewer has lacked of consistency required to BE one of the best. Some nights Big Brew is a world beater but too often he looks lost out there.

I agree with Lowtide, $2.9 million is an overpay for Brewer's performance. However, I'd be fine with it if Brewer being to play consistently at his potential's highest level. It is time for Mr. Eric Brewer to earn his paycheck based upon results and not potential.

I really like Eric Brewer but the price tag is creeping to premium status for someone with decent skills in all facets of the game but who has not excelled imo at any of them (offensive, punishing/physical defenseman, or stellar shutdown guy). Brew's entering prime years which will determine if potential is realized or he becomes just another solid, average defender.

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07-17-2004, 07:59 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
Sorry dawg, but I feel you are grossly overrating Brewer's performance. He has shown flashes of being one of the best d-men in the league but reality has been Brewer has lacked of consistency required to BE one of the best. Some nights Big Brew is a world beater but too often he looks lost out there.
You are disagreeing with me, then basically re-stating the same thing I just said... I know he is inconsistant, and I said that. I just gave the reasons why he might have been selected for Team Canada.

His best performance of his career have come in traditionally big games. He has been incredible in the playoffs, and he always gathers a large chunk of his points in the 2nd half of the year when the Oilers are making a playoff run.

If I had said overall he was a top 5 defenceman, I would be grossly over-rating him... but I was simply referring to how he plays in big games.

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07-17-2004, 08:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
We've all seen it here, he will struggle early on in the year, but when the games appear to mean more (like during a playoff push, or in the playoffs), he is, IMO one of the top 5 defencemen in the leauge. He takes his game to a level where there aren't any other comparables.

But if it's during a big game, I'll take Eric on my team any day.
I gonna have to agree with Dawgbone on this. Eric Brewer is a quality player. I think Oilers fans are too busy being frustrated because he is not a Norris defencemen yet. Even though he isn't, he's still a damn good player, and a top 2 defensemen on almost any team in the league. Even if he doesn't improve(although it would be awesome if he did), he is already a high quality defensemen imo. Definitely 10-20th best dman in the league imo, and that doesn't even take into consideration his potential.

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07-17-2004, 08:52 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by elphy101
Eric Brewer is a quality player. I think Oilers fans are too busy being frustrated because he is not a Norris defencemen yet. Even though he isn't, he's still a damn good player, and a top 2 defensemen on almost any team in the league. Even if he doesn't improve(although it would be awesome if he did), he is already a high quality defensemen imo. Definitely 10-20th best dman in the league imo, and that doesn't even take into consideration his potential.
But here's the problem: the Oilers NEED him to be consistent in his 26 minutes a night and he's not doing it. A guy like Staios is what he is and its on the coach to keep him from being over exposed, but Brewer is already being paid like the man and he isn't getting it done.

THEN asking for a raise is just bad form.

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07-18-2004, 01:23 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Brewer is one of the best defencemen in the league when the chips are down. We've all seen it here, he will struggle early on in the year, but when the games appear to mean more (like during a playoff push, or in the playoffs), he is, IMO one of the top 5 defencemen in the leauge. He takes his game to a level where there aren't any other comparables.

The criticism stems from him not being able to play like that all the time, especially early on in the season.

But if it's during a big game, I'll take Eric on my team any day.
WOW. I have to disagree. I don't see Brewer as one of the top 5 defensemen in the league under any criteria.

Blake, Niedermayer, Stevens, Pronger, Zubov, Chara, Redden, Jovanovski, Ohlund, Leetch, Gonchar, Hatcher, Lidstrom, MacInnis...well that's 14 so far...it's a safe bet that Brewer isn't a top 5 in the league guy, even when the games mean more. And BTW don't games in October count the same as games in March? If not, then a guy is justified in dogging it until February, when his team is way out of the playoff picture, before turning it on.

He's a good defenseman, but has a lot to prove (especially offensively) to be in the same category as the guys above. He's like a Hannan, Regehr, Souray, Sydor, Kubina sort of guy right now. They all play big minutes, but they don't put up the kind of points needed to be considered a truly elite d-man.

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07-18-2004, 09:23 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
He's a good defenseman, but has a lot to prove (especially offensively) to be in the same category as the guys above. He's like a Hannan, Regehr, Souray, Sydor, Kubina sort of guy right now. They all play big minutes, but they don't put up the kind of points needed to be considered a truly elite d-man.
I just don't see him ever being an offensive defenseman. He never put up Cam Barker type numbers in junior and his NHL numbers have been fairly predictable since arriving in Edmonton.

Offensively, he's more Dallas Smith than Bobby Orr. Which is why it's SO important that he become more consistent without the puck.

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07-18-2004, 10:13 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
WOW. I have to disagree. I don't see Brewer as one of the top 5 defensemen in the league under any criteria.

Blake, Niedermayer, Stevens, Pronger, Zubov, Chara, Redden, Jovanovski, Ohlund, Leetch, Gonchar, Hatcher, Lidstrom, MacInnis...well that's 14 so far...it's a safe bet that Brewer isn't a top 5 in the league guy, even when the games mean more. And BTW don't games in October count the same as games in March? If not, then a guy is justified in dogging it until February, when his team is way out of the playoff picture, before turning it on.
Hence the phrase "When the games appear to mean more."

And Brewer is up there with all of them when he is on. I mean he puts up both offensive numbers comparable to any of them (10 points in 12 playoff games), 5g 12a in the last 22 games of this season. 14 points in the last 20 games of the season before. Defensively, he's also on par with all of them... so it's really a matter of placement.

Quote:
He's a good defenseman, but has a lot to prove (especially offensively) to be in the same category as the guys above. He's like a Hannan, Regehr, Souray, Sydor, Kubina sort of guy right now. They all play big minutes, but they don't put up the kind of points needed to be considered a truly elite d-man.
No, but like I said 3 times already, he does put up the points when the games appear to mean more, and that was really the whole point of what I was talking about...

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07-18-2004, 07:12 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
My argument is that how often is the agent wrong?
....
Your answer, with regards to the decision to go to arbitration: I would say about 50% of the time, certainly no more than 40% or less than 60%.

Right now Brewer is overpaid, this should be obvious. Equally obvious --- the NHLPA feel that they can make a case, they have an angle figured out, probably based on ice-time comparisons. Hopefully the Oilers and/or the NHL hire quality representation for this hearing, I will be disappointed if Brewer does not receive a pay cut.

In short: Sometimes it is easier to get a guilty man acquitted than an innocent one. That doesn't make the guilty man less guilty or the innocent man more guilty. It is what it is ... circumstance.

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07-18-2004, 07:35 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Hence the phrase "When the games appear to mean more."

And Brewer is up there with all of them when he is on. I mean he puts up both offensive numbers comparable to any of them (10 points in 12 playoff games), 5g 12a in the last 22 games of this season. 14 points in the last 20 games of the season before. Defensively, he's also on par with all of them... so it's really a matter of placement.

No, but like I said 3 times already, he does put up the points when the games appear to mean more, and that was really the whole point of what I was talking about...
I know what your saying. But don't you think Lidstrom, Blake, Zubov, Stevens and Niedermayer and a host of others are better than Brewer no matter what the situation? I think Brewer is a top 25 defenseman (which is pretty good considering there are 30 teams). Top 5 is too much of a stretch, even if it's top 5 when the games appear to mean more. I think the above d-men are great all the time, in October and June. I think you're overrating Brewer, but that's what opinions are for.

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07-18-2004, 07:39 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
Sorry dawg, but I feel you are grossly overrating Brewer's performance. He has shown flashes of being one of the best d-men in the league but reality has been Brewer has lacked of consistency required to BE one of the best. Some nights Big Brew is a world beater but too often he looks lost out there.

I agree with Lowtide, $2.9 million is an overpay for Brewer's performance. However, I'd be fine with it if Brewer being to play consistently at his potential's highest level. It is time for Mr. Eric Brewer to earn his paycheck based upon results and not potential.

I really like Eric Brewer but the price tag is creeping to premium status for someone with decent skills in all facets of the game but who has not excelled imo at any of them (offensive, punishing/physical defenseman, or stellar shutdown guy). Brew's entering prime years which will determine if potential is realized or he becomes just another solid, average defender.
Agreed. Brewer has all the tools to be a terrific defensive defenseman. A Brad McCrimmon type ... or at least somewhere close to that calibre. But he makes an exhorbinant number of mistakes. And he has never gotten anything better than mediocre results for this reason. EVER.

I really don't understand how anyone in their right mind could consider Brewer one of the top-50 defensmen in the NHL right now.

I think you could make an argument that he may be one of the top-ten when he's 30 years old, he certainly has the tools ... but he might not be too, who knows?

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07-18-2004, 08:05 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Am I alone in wondering why Brewer was put on Canada's World Cup roster?
Obviously not. The answer eminating from Calgary is that Lowe put him on there.

I think recalling some history may shed light on what happened and is still happening. This is just one take, so feel free to rip it apart.

Brewer came to Edmonton after having never really secured a roster spot. He played 26 NHL games for the Islanders the year before. His first season was up and down, but down the stretch he seemed to pick it up. Then the playoffs.

One might just point to the '00-01 Dallas playoff series as the pivotal point to largely explain the whole affair. Brewer looked great. He was physical. He skated. He got 6 points in 6 games. Here was a fast skating 6'3" 220 pound defender just turned 22 years old and it looked like he would be arriving. Once potential is glimpsed, some people are lothe to let go of the vision. And it was at this point the Olympic selection committee was looking at Brewer and wondering if he's the bottom defender to groom for the future. (Hindsight argues there is no reasonable explanation for why Iginla was not invited from the get-go).

The next season Brewer shows a couple of flashes and the excuse of youth is offered to go along with the philosophy of just giving it time.

The next summer Lowe then must sign Brewer to a contract. Morris had held out just the year before and he came back with mixed success (people were making fun he spent the time eating Cheetos and watching TV). I remember some people saying that they'd be OK with giving up couple $100k in ground to Brewer in order to avoid a holdout. Then there was the issue of length of contract. It appeared that this was a young defender that just might break out soon. It was a risk not to lock the guy up for a little longer, but then some concession would obviously have to be made to have Brewer give up arbitration the next summer.

Under this theory, Lowe gambled that Brewer was ascending rather than plateauing, and would ascend too early and too high before the new CBA economics could play out. A monster breakout season by Brewer would mean a hefty arbitration award putting the team salary structure out of whack. Perhaps Lowe imagined what it might be like having a 23 year old after a monster season and you can no longer afford him? Gamble and end up overpaying by a couple hundred grand and you're chastised by nobodies on the internet, yet your salary structure is kept intact if you can keep Brewer playing the top minutes. Foul the handling of a star and you might have the bosses looking at you carefully.

That's probably all crap but it might explain a few things.

EDITS: stupid writing.

EDIT #2: By the way, regarding gambles Lowe's deal with York was widely criticized in the same manner as Brewers, saying Lowe gave York too much in the second year.


Last edited by oilswell: 07-18-2004 at 09:19 PM.
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Old
07-18-2004, 08:28 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Yep. That will be Meehans argument as all have already mentioned Brewer doesn't have the offensive stats but has the defensive stats like minutes played and who he plays against.
He could argue that, but he would be lying.

Smith played tougher minutes, with lesser linemates, and got
far better results. EV+46 EV-40 EV+/- +6

Staios played about the asme toughness of minutes, with about the same quality of linemates, and got far better results.
EV+57 EV-44 EV+/- +13

As for Brewer:
EV+39 EV-47 EV+/- -8

Only Hemsky and Ferguson were close at EV+/- -4

Fact: The Oilers were less likely to score at 5on5 with Brewer out there than with any other defenseman, and any other player except Stoll.

Fact: The Oilers were more likely to get scored against at 5on5 when Brewer was on the ice than any other Dman except Fersguson.

Fact: By the numbers ... Brewer enjoyed some of the highest quality of linemates during his time on the ice. Only Staios and Dvorak enjoyed silightly higher quality of team-mates.

And this is just the tip of the ice-berg. Want some damning Brewer numbers? ... look more closely at the powerplay and 4on4 numbers. Just craptacular.

I shudder to think what his even-strength numbers would be if he were on a lesser team.

He had a very good PK year though.

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07-18-2004, 09:40 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
He could argue that, but he would be lying.

Smith played tougher minutes, with lesser linemates, and got
far better results. EV+46 EV-40 EV+/- +6

Staios played about the asme toughness of minutes, with about the same quality of linemates, and got far better results.
EV+57 EV-44 EV+/- +13

As for Brewer:
EV+39 EV-47 EV+/- -8

Only Hemsky and Ferguson were close at EV+/- -4

Fact: The Oilers were less likely to score at 5on5 with Brewer out there than with any other defenseman, and any other player except Stoll.

Fact: The Oilers were more likely to get scored against at 5on5 when Brewer was on the ice than any other Dman except Fersguson.

Fact: By the numbers ... Brewer enjoyed some of the highest quality of linemates during his time on the ice. Only Staios and Dvorak enjoyed silightly higher quality of team-mates.

And this is just the tip of the ice-berg. Want some damning Brewer numbers? ... look more closely at the powerplay and 4on4 numbers. Just craptacular.

I shudder to think what his even-strength numbers would be if he were on a lesser team.

He had a very good PK year though.

Atta boy igor - there's no hiding from Brewer's numbers and I hope they lay it out in the hearing. The guy wants a raise after a bad season - can you imagine what he would be like after a good year???

All in all I still like Brew - but with the number of young dmen we have coming up - a guy like Woywitka just may make him expendable in a year or two. Especially given the contract BS he's pulling.

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07-18-2004, 09:56 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
He could argue that, but he would be lying.

Smith played tougher minutes, with lesser linemates, and got
far better results. EV+46 EV-40 EV+/- +6

Staios played about the asme toughness of minutes, with about the same quality of linemates, and got far better results.
EV+57 EV-44 EV+/- +13

As for Brewer:
EV+39 EV-47 EV+/- -8

Only Hemsky and Ferguson were close at EV+/- -4

Fact: The Oilers were less likely to score at 5on5 with Brewer out there than with any other defenseman, and any other player except Stoll.

Fact: The Oilers were more likely to get scored against at 5on5 when Brewer was on the ice than any other Dman except Fersguson.

Fact: By the numbers ... Brewer enjoyed some of the highest quality of linemates during his time on the ice. Only Staios and Dvorak enjoyed silightly higher quality of team-mates.

And this is just the tip of the ice-berg. Want some damning Brewer numbers? ... look more closely at the powerplay and 4on4 numbers. Just craptacular.

I shudder to think what his even-strength numbers would be if he were on a lesser team.

He had a very good PK year though.
But didn't your stats show last week that Brewer played against the hardest oppostion against most often and wouldn't that explain why he was scored on more often if he is on the ice against the oppostion's best players.

Again Meehan is not going to pull out a lot of offensive stats, he is probably going to use your stat about Brewer playing all the tough minutes and how many minutes played.

Lowe will pull out the ungodly offensive stats.

At the end of the day Brewer will get his raise, it won't be huge but he will get it. I am sure of there was an example of a player that actually lost an arbitration case or was given less money someone would have pulled out that example by now.

My argument has never been he deserves a raise, I agree with you all BUT my argument is that arbitration is articificial and there enough cases out there that Brewer will get his raise whether we feel he deserved it or not.

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07-18-2004, 10:02 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by oilswell
Obviously not. The answer eminating from Calgary is that Lowe put him on there.

.
That always emanates from Calgary, it doesn't make it fact.
They also argued that Ryan Smyth was put on by Lowe until they found out it was Lanny Macdonald who fought so hard for Smyth (while he was still working for the Flames I might add) :lol

Gretzky was quoted as saying that Brewer was a slam dunk and there was absolutely no discussion about him.

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07-18-2004, 10:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by spaz44
But didn't your stats show last week that Brewer played against the hardest oppostion against most often and wouldn't that explain why he was scored on more often if he is on the ice against the oppostion's best players.
No it didn't. It showed that Smith did. And that Brewer and Staios were next for defencemen on this team, but both some distance behind.

AND: Smith and Staios put up very good results in spite of this. Brewer put up TERRIBLE results.

Quote:
Again Meehan is not going to pull out a lot of offensive stats, he is probably going to use your stat about Brewer playing all the tough minutes and how many minutes played.
Again, his lawyers COULD do that, but they won't. Because the l;awyers that the Oilers hire (backed by their statisticans results) will hammer that point down with force.

Quote:
Lowe will pull out the ungodly offensive stats.
Lowe's lawyers will, yes. Lowe will sit quitely and (hopefully) understand the process.

Quote:
At the end of the day Brewer will get his raise, it won't be huge but he will get it. I am sure of there was an example of a player that actually lost an arbitration case or was given less money someone would have pulled out that example by now.

My argument has never been he deserves a raise, I agree with you all BUT my argument is that arbitration is articificial and there enough cases out there that Brewer will get his raise whether we feel he deserved it or not.
IMHO you are wrong in every way, I don't even know where to begin, I won't argue with you ... but I fear that this is the way that Lowe thinks too.

Suffice it to say that my opinion on this is that the NHLPA knows that they don't have a case with Brewer. But that he would be a tremendously valuable precedent if they can bully Lowe into signing a deal with Brewer that sees him get a raise before he goes into arbs. They look at Lowe ... ex-player ... little business experience ... history of signing deals favourable to the NHLPA. Their eyes light up ... he's a soft target.

What Lowe has to do IMO ... set his balls square, hire good strategists, refuse to be bullied. Don't cave. Listen to his strategists ... ignore his own tendencies. That's his best hope IMO.

But alas, I don't think he'll do it. He'll give Brewer some sort of raise before arbitration begins.

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07-18-2004, 10:43 PM
  #70
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Terrific post, oilswell.

I think that sums it up pretty well. Brings us to the point we are now.

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07-19-2004, 12:24 AM
  #71
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As I said I hope I am wrong too.

But since there has never been ANY case where the agent has lost his players arbitration hearing I really don't think I am. Truly I wish I could agree but there have been a lot of cases where all of us have been surprised by the awards given.

All Meehan has to do is find a decent comparable to Brewer and he will get a raise this had been proven time and time again. It would be great if Brewer would be the first player to ever lose an arbitration case though BUT.

Did Jason Smith really deserve a 50% raise in his arbitration case? Not a chance but he got it because there were enough comparables at that time to get it. I remember arguing that he would get a decent raise and people throwing stats at me at that time as well. Everybody argued I was wrong in every way before that case too.

I hope it does go to arbitration and somehow you are all right, but we will have to see.

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07-19-2004, 12:43 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by spaz44
That always emanates from Calgary, it doesn't make it fact.
LOL, so true. But I was answering a question about whether H4PM was alone in his/her (?) thoughts (sorry H4PM, don't know). At least now ...er.... s/he can rest easy knowing s/he thinks like a Flames fan. While Oilers fans are never wrong. About anything. Including Brewer. Or Salo.

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07-19-2004, 01:09 AM
  #73
igor*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
But since there has never been ANY case where the agent has lost his players arbitration ...
WTH are you talking about? Roughly 50% by any sensible definition.

Though perhaps you're confusing the MLB arbitration system with the NHLs?
Quote:
All Meehan has to do is find a decent comparable to Brewer and he will get a raise this had been proven time and time again. It would be great if Brewer would be the first player to ever lose an arbitration case though BUT.
I'm sorry, this doesn't make sense. Its important to read the relevant section of the CBA on this.

Besides, I think you're preparing your Lowe apologies a bit too soon ... Lowe hasn't dropped the ball yet, and maybe he won't.

Quote:
Did Jason Smith really deserve a 50% raise in his arbitration case? Not a chance but he got it because there were enough comparables at that time to get it. I remember arguing that he would get a decent raise and people throwing stats at me at that time as well. Everybody argued I was wrong in every way before that case too.
You remember wrongly. Or you were talking to dumbarses.

Jason Smith should have expected to receive an award of $2.2M IMO. Listening to Lowe's remarks afterwards ... it seems Lowe gifted him an extra 100K by handling it poorly.

Quote:
I hope it does go to arbitration and somehow you are all right, but we will have to see.
I don't think it will go to arbitration. The NHLPA have picked their soft mark, and they are clever people. In all likelihood Lowe will sign Brewer to a raise before the hearing. Because no matter how much the consultants will try to advise ... my guess is that, in his heart, Lowe agrees with you. And that is tragic. He's not a businessman, and the NHLPA strategists know it.

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Old
07-19-2004, 01:39 AM
  #74
Asiaoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
WTH are you talking about? Roughly 50% by any sensible definition.

Though perhaps you're confusing the MLB arbitration system with the NHLs?

I'm sorry, this doesn't make sense. Its important to read the relevant section of the CBA on this.

Besides, I think you're preparing your Lowe apologies a bit too soon ... Lowe hasn't dropped the ball yet, and maybe he won't.


You remember wrongly. Or you were talking to dumbarses.

Jason Smith should have expected to receive an award of $2.2M IMO. Listening to Lowe's remarks afterwards ... it seems Lowe gifted him an extra 100K by handling it poorly.


I don't think it will go to arbitration. The NHLPA have picked their soft mark, and they are clever people. In all likelihood Lowe will sign Brewer to a raise before the hearing. Because no matter how much the consultants will try to advise ... my guess is that, in his heart, Lowe agrees with you. And that is tragic. He's not a businessman, and the NHLPA strategists know it.
Well I may disagree with you a bit on that count igor. The Brew contract was the last one that was "optimistic". Most others signed since then have been good value - Moreau, Smyth etc etc.

I honestly think Lowe is as surprised as the rest of us that Brew has gone arb - because he doesn't have a friggin leg to stand on. I would also not hesitate to rip Brew in the arb hearing. It was Brew's choice to go this route - he's a big boy who knows the consequences. I would point out that while he's a decent young dman who plays a lot of minutes - but his offensive stats are mediocre, his +/- bad, and his PP performance is terrible. The last contract was partly based on expectations that were not fulfilled. Even his performance against top forwards is not the best on this team. So he has ABSOLUTELY no basis for a raise unless Lowe basically agrees with his agent and brings up no counter-arguments what-so-ever.

I think I agree with Lowe on this one - Meehan wants to use Brew to get a better deal for Hannan and vice versa. If that's the case I would not even bother to negotiate with Brew. Lowe should actually thank him for the chance to sign him for less money - AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY. I like Brew - but I would go for the kill in this case if I was Lowe - and that's a low arb settlement that he could lock Brew into for 2 years. Brew had his chance to simply take his qualifier after a mediocre year. He passed that up and has given Lowe an opportunity to get something better which he darn sure better take advantage of.

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Old
07-19-2004, 01:57 AM
  #75
hockeyaddict101
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Lets hope you are right

But remember if Hannan gets a good reward or if that GM blinks then Meehan now has a new comparable for Brewer.

Another thing to consider Bryan Mccabe filed for arbitration as well and according to that article last week on this board Toronto IS considered a soft touch. Meehan is already going to use him as a comparable, imagine if he gets a large reward before Brewer or if Toronto decides to overpay.

These are all things Lowe has to consider as well.

Edited to add link, just in case some missed it and the quote I refer to above.

The Leafs are widely regarded by agents as a soft touch in negotiations.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1840485


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 07-19-2004 at 02:16 AM.
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