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Old
06-21-2011, 09:24 AM
  #851
strungout
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Originally Posted by pokerandpucks View Post
I'm not going through this whole thread to look, so I'll just ask. Is Laich talking about testing the market?
I don't think he's "talking" anything. The general public doesn't know much of anything at all with the negotiations to this point.

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06-21-2011, 09:29 AM
  #852
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How on earth is Chimera more than a 4th line winger? He is mediocre to poor defensively and he chipped in a grand total of 26 points last year.
Because he is a good bet for 10-15 goals every season. Like it or not that is solid 3rd line winger production in this league. There were 154 wingers in the league who scored 10 goals or more last year and that was definitely a down year for Chimera. The guy has 5 seasons of 14+ goal production under his belt.

Yes I know in your ideal dream world you want your 4th line filled with 3rd liners, 3rd line filled with 2nd liners, 2 first lines, and your spares all solid NHL 4th liners but that is in no way whatsoever realistic. The 400 goal team you would put on the ice will never be iced by anyone ever again.

Now if you want to argue if Chimera is the type of 3rd liner this team needs we can have that conversation but calling him a 4th liner because he isn't the 2nd liner you want there is ridiculous.

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06-21-2011, 09:46 AM
  #853
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Hey, finally someone else who isn't opposed to trying Alzner-Green.
That's not finally. I've wrote about it even before we lost to Montreal year ago.

Always thought it would be good. Not Green trying to break 2-on-1 after Schultz's collapse but Alzner breaking it after Green's aggressive move in the offensive zone.

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06-21-2011, 09:54 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
I don't think he's "talking" anything. The general public doesn't know much of anything at all with the negotiations to this point.
So he hasn't said anything at all? Usually people have a good idea if a guy wants to come back or wants out.

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06-21-2011, 09:54 AM
  #855
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Because he is a good bet for 10-15 goals every season. Like it or not that is solid 3rd line winger production in this league. There were 154 wingers in the league who scored 10 goals or more last year and that was definitely a down year for Chimera. The guy has 5 seasons of 14+ goal production under his belt.

Yes I know in your ideal dream world you want your 4th line filled with 3rd liners, 3rd line filled with 2nd liners, 2 first lines, and your spares all solid NHL 4th liners but that is in no way whatsoever realistic. The 400 goal team you would put on the ice will never be iced by anyone ever again.

Now if you want to argue if Chimera is the type of 3rd liner this team needs we can have that conversation but calling him a 4th liner because he isn't the 2nd liner you want there is ridiculous.
What is ridiculous is calling him a good bet for 15 goals. The guy has no hockey sense whatsoever and had his best statistical seasons on lottery teams. At 32, is also be hesitant to call his last season merely a down year.

He should absolutely not be playing 13 minutes on a contender. If your standard is league average and limited solely to offensive production, then I guess you could call him a third line winger. Yay pithy semantics!

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06-21-2011, 09:55 AM
  #856
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I consider Laich a tweener, and Chimera as well. 2.5 and a 3.5. not everyone falls into the most basic of categories. All players are different, and Chimera has an unique skillset - big and fast and... faster.

The difference between a 3rd and 4th liner can be tough to define on our team since we go sans a checking line, and have a low goal scoring 3rd line instead.

I still want Bruce to consider an old fashioned checking line, an older than me formula to help win a cup. I want more hitting and energy from our 4C, I would like Jorge to go after Konopka.

The time for the annual Gordon pulls up to Kettler in his pickup truck to sign a one year isnt due until mid july. So I dont want to count him out yet, and definitely not if we want a shutdown 3rd line. He has got the energy, just not the bang I think we need on 4.

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06-21-2011, 10:01 AM
  #857
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I am seeing a pattern here, old crafty vets are wise enough to use Semin to his potential. They just break down.
I've got a nice thought after this.

Sign Arnott, sign Fiddler (other capable #3C). Gordon - nevermind, maybe as 4th line winger.

Then it will be Backstrom-Arnott-Johansson-new#3C.

In case of the injury to Arnott (inevitable) we are just fine:

Backstrom-MJ-new#3C-Gordon/Beagle.

We can easily give Arnott much time to rest anytime he wants. But he should take a big discount for that.

If we are getting another top-6 forward and maybe top-9 forward MJ will have a body to play with every time. And remember we have Eric Fehr waiting to recover.

What's really is a concern - 4th line. Hendricks, Gordon, Beagle. Good for RS, not enough power for PO. Maybe Sjogren will help though.


PS: Doubt it McPhee can sign 3 new forwards + Arnott. Will try to calculate it. Hannan is certainly lost in that scheme.

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06-21-2011, 10:06 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Changing gears, I have a feeling Varly is going to bolt. I suspect he is irked at not getting a chance in the tampa series. If he was close with Irbe, that is all the more likely to make him disgrunted. No matter, he sees the writing on the wall. Bruce likes Neuvy, and he knows most everyone likes Holtby, including most of Canada. One thing that will make him stay is if he believes his groin was the only thing holding him back, and he wants to prove Bruce wrong. One thing that will make him leave, George doesnt have to give him lots of money, he has two other G's ready to go. KHL money is money too. Varly is a stud, I hope his days arent over already because he was overflexible.

If he is here this fall and all 3 are healthy, there is going to be an unhappy camper down in Hershey.
Malamud is close to Varly as far as I am concerned. He said it very strictly: Varly is sure he can reclaim #1 status. In original issue (in russian) it sounds 100% like that.

I think he have to take 1,15M for 1 year and reclaim it.

Nothing really says Varly will bolt. KHL money will be still at his disposal next summer. Nothing will change.


PS: Happy camper in Hershey will have Kolzig to learn from. And some starts in Washington probably. If Varly is healthy enough and Holtby is still brilliant - trade Neuvirth. But I have another concern: Hotlby didn't done the same thing in AHL that Neuvirth did. One more season as AHL #1 will do not much damage to Holtby.

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06-21-2011, 10:07 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by ruProf View Post
That's not finally. I've wrote about it even before we lost to Montreal year ago.

Always thought it would be good. Not Green trying to break 2-on-1 after Schultz's collapse but Alzner breaking it after Green's aggressive move in the offensive zone.
Many endeared themselves to the youth pairing of Alzner and Carlson. I wanted to see them broken up and all logical pairs tried over the course of the year. But since it seemed they played a year in Hershey, it was often met with resistance. The kids have to play together, even though we put most all our youth and speed on one pair. All f'in year. Sarge never a game with Carlson.

Alzner and Green is SUCH a no brainer. I think we all have had visions of it for a few years now. The kids did not have a great playoffs. I guess that extra year in Hershey wasnt better than an extra NHL year for Alzner after all. He went into the playoffs with 1 game under his belt. 1.

I had an idea to stop being so static on defense, and shake up things. Move out Sarge for an all situation LD, a Markov type. Pitkanen. Move out one of Wideman or Green, and bring in a right hand shot stay at homer 2nd pair type that hits. There must be one out there, but I dont know the names.

That way we can go full offense at both LD & RD, or full shutdown at both LD & RD.

My feeling on Varly is largely based on Bruce snuffing him in the playoffs, and just a gut feeling. I know all signs point to otherwise. A hunch. George will be low balling. Varly may not take a massive discount to stay here, as he said.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 06-21-2011 at 10:12 AM.
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06-21-2011, 10:33 AM
  #860
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
What is ridiculous is calling him a good bet for 15 goals. The guy has no hockey sense whatsoever and had his best statistical seasons on lottery teams. At 32, is also be hesitant to call his last season merely a down year.

He should absolutely not be playing 13 minutes on a contender. If your standard is league average and limited solely to offensive production, then I guess you could call him a third line winger. Yay pithy semantics!
not trying to call you out BCF but Chimera's 8 full seasons he's had 10, 15, 8, 14, 15, 17, 4, and 14 goals for an average of 12.25 goals per season AND his career average in an 82 game season is 13.83... pretty darn close to a sure bet to be 15 goals in a season... and definitely in the 10-15 range... just saying!

http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=986

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:34 AM
  #861
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25 players, some of them will not get the jersey

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Alexander Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Mike Knuble ($2.000m)
Alexander Semin ($6.700m) / Jason Arnott ($3.000m) / NEW-TOP6-WINGER ($4.000m) (Laich's budget)
Eric Fehr ($2.200m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m) / Chad Larose ($2.000m)
Jason Chimera ($1.875m) / Jay Beagle ($0.512m) / Mattias Sjogren ($0.900m)
D.J. King ($0.637m) / Boyd Gordon ($0.800m) / Matt Hendricks ($0.825m)

DEFENSEMEN
Karl Alzner ($2.750m) / John Carlson ($0.845m)
Jeff Schultz ($2.750m) / Mike Green ($5.250m)
John Erskine ($1.500m) / Dennis Wideman ($3.937m)
Tyler Sloan ($0.700m) / Patrick McNeill ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m) / Semyon Varlamov ($1.150m)


SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,146,795; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $853,205

---------------------------------------------

OK. Lets start from defense. I gave Alzner Schultz's money (which approx. he should get probably) and placed Poti on LTIR. One of the Sloan or McNeill has to go on waiver and to Hershey eventually.

Trading Schultz and signing Pitkanen, for example, will eat the remained free $853k. For now.

So we need to cut one more forward which will give us some more cap space.

My concern is that's virtually the same line-up with the same coach but more expensive. I do not believe in it.

Somebody got to go. Maybe it will be Gordon after all. King could be waivered but it's not a solution.

I guess McPhee will not sign Arnott, will promote Johansson to #2C and leave himself some cap space for the trade deadline.

Also I think it's a number one priority to upgrade LD.

Upgrading Wideman to stay-at-home RD isn't gonna happen IMHO. Next year it's offensively minded Orlov anyway. Wideman seemed OK, no problem.

Could it be that new LD will not subst Schultz but will be added to the line up to form CAGS + Wideman + Erskine + new LD (Pitkanen)?

PS: New LD chasing pucks instead of OV is worth around 1M easily. Haha

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:35 AM
  #862
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Rather than continuing to focus so specifically on individuals, as fans we should be more concerned with GMGM's strategy. I liked building a core and a farm system from the draft. Great idea. We got there two years ago. Now, each year we need to evaluate who is getting it done in a realistic way. Unfortuantely, I think GMGM and Ted are way to optimistic about the development and ceilings for some of our players. Sometimes you have to trade a good player for a good player. Talent wise it is a wash, but maybe the fit is better or the skill set a little different. Either way, sometimes change is the answer.

I hope, for the next 100 days, GMGM and Ted decide to make some significant changes. The definition of insanty is to keep repeating the same action and expecting different results.

I don't think any of us will be upset with the result, win or lose, if it seems like GMGM and Ted are putting in 100% effort and not being overly conservative.

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06-21-2011, 10:35 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
What is ridiculous is calling him a good bet for 15 goals.
So he didn't score 15 goals 2 seasons ago, 14 2 years before that, 15 the year before that, 17 the year before that, and 14 2 years before that? That is 5 times over a 7 year stretch.

The guy scored 15 goals split between the Caps and Jackets 2 years ago and 10 last year but in your opinion at 32 his career is now on a steady downward slide?

Keep demanding your 400 goal teams and naively wondering why nobody puts one together...

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06-21-2011, 10:49 AM
  #864
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The definition of insanty is to keep repeating the same action and expecting different results..
false analogy. there were 8 players that played in the 2010 playoffs for the caps that did not play in 2011. there were 8 players that did not play in 2010 that did play in the 2011 playoffs. this does not include dennis wideman. thats more than a 3rd of the roster that changed.

they went from a run and gun offensive team to a defense first team.

35% roster turnover and 180 degree change in style can not qualify as repeating the same plan.

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06-21-2011, 10:52 AM
  #865
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That's not finally. I've wrote about it even before we lost to Montreal year ago.

Always thought it would be good. Not Green trying to break 2-on-1 after Schultz's collapse but Alzner breaking it after Green's aggressive move in the offensive zone.
I don't want Mike Green anywhere near Alzner. You can only ask a young defensemen like Alzner to cover up for so many mistakes and Green would absolutely leave him out to dry. The Alzner/Carlson pairing needs to stay as those two should be pretty much joined at the hip.

We don't need such a fine young stay at home defensemen getting any bad habits or being influenced by the likes of Mike Green.

I don't even really want them conversing unless it's imperative that they do so. Alzner has leadership skills and championships at the AHL and WJC to show for it, so does Carlson, Mike Green has his haircut and scooter.

NO THANK YOU

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06-21-2011, 10:57 AM
  #866
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mike green=cancer. something new

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:59 AM
  #867
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Remember last year a couple of 2nd line UFA centers (or borderline #2) signed for around 3,5M? Namely Lombardi, Cullen.

In retrospective we could had one of them and did just fine from the salary cap standpoint.

Now when the upper ceiling is rising I think it's maybe a time to sign a player for such a contract. I'm thinking about Michal Handzus once again.

Like 4M for 3 years. He will be a big body, a vet center to dish pucks to Semin. A few years younger and more versatile. Very interchangeable with other centers (NB, MJ). PK work included (no need for special #3C).

The whole line of centers will be better with such a player.

All-round Laich will not be required -> money could go elsewhere.


PS: Handzus practically doesn't miss games. He had some injury in 2006 but other than that he is playing 82 games every year. 72 playoff games of experience (11+21=32).

PPS: Another euro player? So fail.

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06-21-2011, 11:09 AM
  #868
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Green hardly took any risks in the offensive zone at all last year. Against Bruce's wishes even. He had his token mental lapse in the playoffs going after the same guy in the corner as Erskine. That Green Erskine pairing, largely untested, almost seemed doomed to have a problem.

Green paired with Alzner, and Green actually being the offensive guy that he is, I think is a no brainer to help both of them. Dont make Alzner the guy taking risks in the offensive zone. Stay in your best role theory.

Bruce had it backwards for my liking last year. Carlson and Green were our stay at homers.

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06-21-2011, 11:22 AM
  #869
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The biggest thing is bringing in more of a veteran presence, improving their center depth and from there really focusing on the nuts and bolts of offensive execution. If the coaching staff believes the offense will just sort itself out by virtue of their skill level alone then I have little hope for them really coming together as a team in the playoffs, regardless of personnel moves.

I like Handzus as an option a lot, especially if Laich moves on. He's a load around the net on the PP (though he'd be a second unit guy) and is exactly the sort of center Sjogren should try to pattern his game after. I wouldn't expect McPhee to offer more than two years, though, and at this point in his career I wouldn't expect him to get more than that (and IMO more towards $3M than $4M).

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06-21-2011, 11:29 AM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
So he didn't score 15 goals 2 seasons ago, 14 2 years before that, 15 the year before that, 17 the year before that, and 14 2 years before that? That is 5 times over a 7 year stretch.

The guy scored 15 goals split between the Caps and Jackets 2 years ago and 10 last year but in your opinion at 32 his career is now on a steady downward slide?

Keep demanding your 400 goal teams and naively wondering why nobody puts one together...
Please ignore my point about his role on lottery teams and his painfully ugly performance past year. Then laugh at my audacity for suggesting we build the kind of depth that would shave 3 minutes from Jason Freaking Chimera's icetime. Clearly my expectations are too high.

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06-21-2011, 11:41 AM
  #871
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Clearly my expectations are too high.
Yes, yes they are.

Your demands for 2 first lines all filled out with without a doubt 1st liners, a 3rd line filled with without a doubt 2nd liners, a 4th line filled out with without a doubt 3rd liners, and a couple of without a doubt 4th liner spares is crazy. And oh yeah do that with one guy with a $9.5+ mil cap hit...

But feel free to continue to be disappointed because of your ridiculous expectations.

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Old
06-21-2011, 11:52 AM
  #872
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I wouldn't expect McPhee to offer more than two years, though, and at this point in his career I wouldn't expect him to get more than that (and IMO more towards $3M than $4M).
4M x 3 = a bit extreme but that's as good bet as it could be to be sure about this signing. 3,5M x 2 would be better but this isn't really significant now. We can really find all the problems in Handzus' game 6 month into his Caps tenure, and then start to make him a whipping boy. Easily. Lets do not lose time for insignificant 0,5M )))


If McPhee was a little evil he would trade Fehr. I'm pretty sure we can have some good 2nd round pick for Eric. Same with Schultz maybe. At least we have Hannan waiting to sign probably.

Eric Fehr - it's an interesting case. If McPhee does want to spend some money for top-6 forward and doesn't think Fehr is ready - he should end his story here. We can use cheaper players who is better suited for 3rd line. Namely: Eakin, UFA like Larose, maybe Sjogren.


Last edited by Raikkonen: 06-21-2011 at 12:00 PM.
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06-21-2011, 11:55 AM
  #873
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false analogy. there were 8 players that played in the 2010 playoffs for the caps that did not play in 2011. there were 8 players that did not play in 2010 that did play in the 2011 playoffs. this does not include dennis wideman. thats more than a 3rd of the roster that changed.

they went from a run and gun offensive team to a defense first team.

35% roster turnover and 180 degree change in style can not qualify as repeating the same plan.
The key guys who eat the minutes didn't change very much. Way less than 35% change in who was eating all the minutes. Look it up, use the math you're fond of.

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06-21-2011, 12:12 PM
  #874
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The key guys who eat the minutes didn't change very much. Way less than 35% change in who was eating all the minutes. Look it up, use the math you're fond of.
if you look at who played the minutes in the playoffs, it'll probably be far FAR higher than a 35% changeover, simply by virtue of a different goaltender eating up 18% of those minutes.

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06-21-2011, 12:15 PM
  #875
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Well one thing was consistent...

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