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Acquisitions/Cap management/Roster Building Thread XVI

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Old
05-29-2011, 10:23 AM
  #176
ChibiPooky
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Originally Posted by Dan Watkins View Post
Total cliche, but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results... So yes, change is needed
This isn't true universally, only when you hold all the other variables constant. They're not.

Either way, the Caps will change this offseason. Big change? Little change? I just don't want change for the sake of change, I want change because it moves them in measurable ways toward a specific, achievable, well-defined goal. That's all I was trying to say.

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05-29-2011, 12:40 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by DCRedhawk21 View Post
What ballpark do you guys expect Alzner's next contract to be in?
Depends on how he continues to grow and where our salary cap is by then. One thing is for sure, he will get a substantial raise and I wouldn't rule him out as a target by other teams. If the Caps had salary issues, he would be one player they would move another player to clear room for. The good thing is, we're not in any salary troubles. This time around I figure he'll get 3.5 million.

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05-29-2011, 01:02 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Sean Bergenheim is a UFA this summer

But he's a playoff performer so GMGM won't even consider him.
Small sample size. There are always random guys who step up for a given playoff year. Doesn't make them playoff performers. Classic example is Max Talbot- the guy scored a couple of timely goals in a series and everyone calls him a playoff beast. Go look at his overall playoff 'beast' stats.

As much as fans like to speak in absolutes, the black and white designation of playoff performer vs playoff choker largely doesn't exist. Even great players can have a bad playoff year and bad players can have a good one. And you can probably break that down to series too.

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05-29-2011, 01:20 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Burgh32 View Post
Small sample size. There are always random guys who step up for a given playoff year. Doesn't make them playoff performers. Classic example is Max Talbot- the guy scored a couple of timely goals in a series and everyone calls him a playoff beast. Go look at his overall playoff 'beast' stats.

As much as fans like to speak in absolutes, the black and white designation of playoff performer vs playoff choker largely doesn't exist. Even great players can have a bad playoff year and bad players can have a good one. And you can probably break that down to series too.
Glad you brought up Max Talbot, he is also a UFA this summer and although he hasn't reproduced his Finals effort he would be an absolute awesome checking center for us. He said he hates Washington but money talks, he is still a very good 3rd/4th liner that would greatly improve our team.

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05-29-2011, 03:30 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Glad you brought up Max Talbot, he is also a UFA this summer and although he hasn't reproduced his Finals effort he would be an absolute awesome checking center for us. He said he hates Washington but money talks, he is still a very good 3rd/4th liner that would greatly improve our team.
hes not much of an upgrade of anything hes more like a 4th liner

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05-29-2011, 03:40 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
Are you trying to mitigate the sweep? Tampa was also on par with Pittsburgh and Boston and they put up much more of a fight. By all intensive purposes we should of been the better team, we've owned them the past two seasons, we had a chip on our shoulder after last years debacle, we added veteran leaders. Yet we got outclassed, outcoached, outworked(whatever your preference is) in the playoffs.
How do you mitigate a sweep? I am simply saying seeding means nothing when the point differential between 2 teams over 82 games is 4 points.

Why should the Caps have been the better team, the 4 additional points? No. You are what you are and over the course of the season the Caps were a 107 point team playing in the same division as a 103 point Tampa team. Those teams were for all intents and purposes equal. Regardless though, the result of 2 equal teams meeting in the playoffs should not be a sweep.

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05-29-2011, 03:56 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by fsnoles98 View Post
So your fine with the regular season stats? That meant a lot come playoff time as it does every year with this team. This team is suppose to be derived from talent (Ovy, Backstrom, Green, Semin and so on), we got the same results with the likes of Miller, Druce, Carpenter, Garner, Hunter, Pivonka, but atleast we knew the Caps of old, played their hearts out with less talent. It would actually be nice to see this team try it every game instead of when they felt like because talent alone will not take you to the promise land.
I don't understand your question. I was just taking issue with you boiling it down this year to losing to a 5 seed and pretending that the seeding meant anything this year. Last year? Definitely. This year? Definitely not, that's all.

As far as comparing this team to Caps teams of the past goes I don't know what to tell you. Over their history the Caps have had very talented teams that underachieved and lost to teams they had no business losing to, see '86 and last year as examples, and not so talented teams that overachieved but still didn't win the cup, see '90 and '98.

Does watching one type of team fail to get it done as opposed to another type of team fail to get it done make me feel better or worse than the other? No, my disappointment just gets leveled at different parts of the organization.

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Old
05-29-2011, 04:48 PM
  #183
Robert Theodorson
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hes not much of an upgrade of anything hes more like a 4th liner
I see you have your homer/Pens-hater blinders on. No, you're absolutely right, Gordon and a rotation of Beagle, Perreault, or Hendricks is so much better of an option than Talbot, he should kiss their rings.

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05-29-2011, 05:31 PM
  #184
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i have nothing against getting tablot. the caps need all the cup experience they can get.

just so, i am on the same page. you are suggesting giving tablot chimera's lineup spot.

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05-29-2011, 07:22 PM
  #185
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Would anyone consider a trade like this? I'm not really for trading Semin but I just thought of it.
Semin+ Schultz for Nielsen+ Mcdonald+ Bailey?

The Islanders get a top-line winger and a top four defenseman, finally a piece for Tavares.
We get one of the best defensive forwards in the game, who could be a 50-55+ Point Center. Great contract as well, albeit a UFA next year. We also get a top-four defenseman on a great contract signed for three more years. And Bailey is a good potential top-6 player who's still really young.

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05-29-2011, 07:35 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
I see you have your homer/Pens-hater blinders on. No, you're absolutely right, Gordon and a rotation of Beagle, Perreault, or Hendricks is so much better of an option than Talbot, he should kiss their rings.
you dont need to get mad, i guess it depends on if bradley stays and if he does we dont need talbot

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05-29-2011, 08:15 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by dashtary View Post
Would anyone consider a trade like this? I'm not really for trading Semin but I just thought of it.
Semin+ Schultz for Nielsen+ Mcdonald+ Bailey?.
The Caps need veteran playoff leadership. Islanders players are not the answer.

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05-29-2011, 08:20 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
The Caps need veteran playoff leadership. Islanders players are not the answer.
Seriously, this isn't 1980.

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Old
05-29-2011, 08:25 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by um View Post
you dont need to get mad, i guess it depends on if bradley stays and if he does we dont need talbot
Talbot is much more versatile than Bradley though, and I don't think there's any way he comes back for 1M per. However, I don't put anything past our almighty GM, constructor of dynasties, George McPhee. Bradley is good for a few 'wow I can't believe he scored' goals a year and some fights but Talbot is a superior PKer and can play on our 3rd or 4th line and provide more offense.

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05-29-2011, 08:30 PM
  #190
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again, i ask. are you suggesting that the caps might should let laich go and slot talbot in for his ice time? or maybe trade chimera to open a spot? you seem to be saying that talbot should be a 3rd line player and not a matt hendricks/matt bradley player.

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05-29-2011, 10:30 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
again, i ask. are you suggesting that the caps might should let laich go and slot talbot in for his ice time? or maybe trade chimera to open a spot? you seem to be saying that talbot should be a 3rd line player and not a matt hendricks/matt bradley player.
He's better than those last 3 you listed, I don't think Laich gets resigned by us just because he will be a hot commodity that many teams with more money than the Caps are going to be looking at.

In either case our current formula has gotten us an embarrassing playoff resume, to keep things the same just seems irresponsible.

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Old
05-30-2011, 12:06 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Talbot is much more versatile than Bradley though, and I don't think there's any way he comes back for 1M per. However, I don't put anything past our almighty GM, constructor of dynasties, George McPhee. Bradley is good for a few 'wow I can't believe he scored' goals a year and some fights but Talbot is a superior PKer and can play on our 3rd or 4th line and provide more offense.
i agree talbot is better but i think theres much better 3rd liners out there our bottom 6 is barely improving if we get talbot

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05-30-2011, 04:53 AM
  #193
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Pen fan here lurking this thread. Just wanted to add perspective on Talbot's play, particularly during the playoffs. During his career, he's a .27 ppg player during the regular season. In the playoffs, he's a career .50 ppg player.

Hardly Gretzky-esque, but once the games matter more, his point production doubles.
games goals assists points
'06-'07 75 13 11 24 | Playoffs 5 0 1 1
'07-'08 63 12 14 26 | Playoffs 17 3 6 9
'08-'09 75 12 10 22 | Playoffs 24 8 5 13
'09-'10 45 2 5 7 | Playoffs 13 2 4 6
'10-'11 82 8 13 21 | Playoffs 7 1 3 4


He also won back to back Guy Lafleur trophies (QMJHL Playoff MVP), so he's been this way at both levels.

So if he were to make his way to the Caps next year, outside of penalty killing, you'd be getting him for what he does in April/May/June over what he does from October through March.

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Old
05-30-2011, 08:28 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
He's better than those last 3 you listed, I don't think Laich gets resigned by us just because he will be a hot commodity that many teams with more money than the Caps are going to be looking at.

In either case our current formula has gotten us an embarrassing playoff resume, to keep things the same just seems irresponsible.
so, yes. you would take talbot to replace laich. correct?

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Old
05-30-2011, 11:50 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Jagrs mullet View Post
Pen fan here lurking this thread. Just wanted to add perspective on Talbot's play, particularly during the playoffs. During his career, he's a .27 ppg player during the regular season. In the playoffs, he's a career .50 ppg player.

Hardly Gretzky-esque, but once the games matter more, his point production doubles.
games goals assists points
'06-'07 75 13 11 24 | Playoffs 5 0 1 1
'07-'08 63 12 14 26 | Playoffs 17 3 6 9
'08-'09 75 12 10 22 | Playoffs 24 8 5 13
'09-'10 45 2 5 7 | Playoffs 13 2 4 6
'10-'11 82 8 13 21 | Playoffs 7 1 3 4


He also won back to back Guy Lafleur trophies (QMJHL Playoff MVP), so he's been this way at both levels.

So if he were to make his way to the Caps next year, outside of penalty killing, you'd be getting him for what he does in April/May/June over what he does from October through March.
J/W do the Pens not have the cap to keep him?

I wouldn't mind Talbot, but I highly doubt Washington is high on his list of possible destinations. Almost feel like it will be much of the same down the middle: Backstrom-Johansson-Eakin/Laich-Gordon. I'd love to trade for a guy like McClement or sign a 4th line C like Konopka or Reasoner and I'd be much more comfortable if they got a legitimate 2nd line C and keep Mojo in the 3rd line role. We'll see, I expect to 'stay the course' though.

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05-30-2011, 12:43 PM
  #196
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has george dropped the ball on drafting 3rd and 4th liners? Shouldn't that also be a good measure of his GM skills - I mean is it tough to draft 1st rounders really?

As it is, Chimera Bradley Hendricks and King were brought in from outside. He drafted, Boyd and Eakin. Fehr wasnt projected to be a checker. We got Beagle in the pipe. IMHO if he were a good drafting GM, we would have a few more bottom line guys ready to go.

You can never have enough defensemen but I think you can never have enough wingers and centers as well. He drafted a bunch of Dmen over forwards.

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05-30-2011, 01:38 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
J/W do the Pens not have the cap to keep him?
It's not really an issue of not having the cap room. It's mostly that with the AHL guys (Vitale, Tangradi, Jeffrey, & Johnson) that played in Feb & March this year, they saw several guys who can fill the roles of Talbot, Adams, & Dupuis, who if resigned, would combine for at least $3 million. Letting them walk would allow them to use that money towards a Jussi Jokinen or Michael Ryder.

I wouldn't sign Talbot thinking he could be your 3rd line center next season. It's more likely he'd be either 4th line center or right wing during the regular season, and when lines get reshuffled in the playoffs, insert him just about anywhere in the lineup, and he'll produce.

In the '09 playoffs he was on the 2nd line as Malkin's RW. In the '10 playoffs he was 4th line RW. This year's playoffs he was 3rd line center.


Last edited by Dan E Dangerously: 05-30-2011 at 01:45 PM.
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05-30-2011, 01:38 PM
  #198
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SwedeSpeedBackstrom
He's better than those last 3 you listed, I don't think Laich gets resigned by us just because he will be a hot commodity that many teams with more money than the Caps are going to be looking at.

In either case our current formula has gotten us an embarrassing playoff resume, to keep things the same just seems irresponsible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
so, yes. you would take talbot to replace laich. correct?
I dont think its a bad idea. Its the kind of move I think the team needs to make. Talbot has less skill but a defined role on the team. I still see Laick as a fringe top six player. Laick is more of what we have and not what we need.

Talbot makes our bottom six better. And with the money saved it would put us in the ballpark for a player like Erik Cole.

On a day to day basis I would say Laick has more skill then Cole. But with our team makeup Cole's skill set is needed more.

We need more less skill heart/grit players to fill out the roster. We are full of high skill guy that are missing that part of the game.

I base this off of Laick getting priced out of the role we need him for. We don't need to pay a guy as a back up C. That is not a true anything in our top six. He has no real role. He is just a nice complementary player that can be replaced. With the teams salary makeup he is a luxury we can not keep. And the truth is I don't see him as a good fit.

If we move Semin who is another luxury that does not fix our team needs. Then maybe we have money to spend on a player like Laich.

I still think we have to move Semin or Green. I don't think we can count on either of them for a 20+game cup run. Green can't stay on the ice and Semin will disappear for a round at a time. Not what you need from a 6mill and 6mill player to be.

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05-30-2011, 02:03 PM
  #199
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I think Laich will price himself out of our range because some team is going to think he can be a 2C and pay him accordingly. In reality though, he's really better as a wing and IMO is kind of a mix between a 2nd liner and a 3rd liner. He can do either role, but doesn't excel at either one. I don't really want to lose him because I think he's a solid locker room presence and a good two-way player and PKer and he's solid on face-offs when we need him to be.

Talbot would be cheaper and he would have a much more defined role (I think we would use him at 3C). This creates a void on the second line though. If Fehr is healthy and finally ready to be a top-6 winger, I think he might be the answer. Then we need another 3rd line winger. Maybe Eakin is ready or maybe they look to someone like Upshall in FA.

I think another issue to watch for the upcoming season is how much longer Knuble can keep up with playing on the first line. I love Knuble and hope he plays great, but he's not a youngin...

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05-30-2011, 03:07 PM
  #200
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I think Laich will price himself out of our range because some team is going to think he can be a 2C and pay him accordingly. In reality though, he's really better as a wing and IMO is kind of a mix between a 2nd liner and a 3rd liner. He can do either role, but doesn't excel at either one. I don't really want to lose him because I think he's a solid locker room presence and a good two-way player and PKer and he's solid on face-offs when we need him to be.

Talbot would be cheaper and he would have a much more defined role (I think we would use him at 3C). This creates a void on the second line though. If Fehr is healthy and finally ready to be a top-6 winger, I think he might be the answer. Then we need another 3rd line winger. Maybe Eakin is ready or maybe they look to someone like Upshall in FA.

I think another issue to watch for the upcoming season is how much longer Knuble can keep up with playing on the first line. I love Knuble and hope he plays great, but he's not a youngin...
I don't know. After watching 24/7 I got the impression that Laich isn't really into expensive things, unlike Ovechkin who enjoys tailored suits and expensive cars. Not saying that he's going to play for free but at the same time I don't think he's the type thats going to try and squeeze out every last dime on his next contract, where ever that may be.

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