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Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Edmonton Oilers

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Old
05-28-2011, 09:44 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
You mean WAS stronger?

Prove what you are spouting off here. Like what do you even mean by "look at the way they are built"?


And for the record, Stu M told me to my face that he hasn't seen a player with that type of vision since 99. Not passing skills, but the ability to see hits coming before they arrive and the ability to get out of the way like nobody he's seen in a long time.

Watch RNH, you'll see it.
Here, RNH is an ectomorph and P. Kane is a mesomoph.
Facts, RNH is naturally 165lbs 6'0.5'' while Kane is 170 jr weight at 5'9.5. Ectomorphs take a lot longer to hit their physical prime and A LOT longer to put on quality mass. If you ever weight lift before, it takes a lot more than 3-4 months to put quality mass as I am 5'7 160lbs 9% bodyfat, ectomorph, play hockey regularly and trains MMA as well and I am 25. It's take a hell a lot of training to get where I wanted to get in terms of explosive strength and muscle mass. Just think about it, for every 5 lbs of muscles you get, you'll get 2lbs of fat and another 2 lbs is water weight from when your muscle grows. You'll also need another 3-4 months to harden those muscles by doing of hypertrophy program with downsets to reduce that water retention. And on top of that, he'd have to do explosive training that requires months if not years to compensate for the weight gained. If you think by trying to gain weight and build explosiveness into one program, the results is minimal whereas doing each as separate programs in a prolong period of time will maximize your growth potential. So really, the weight RNH is getting from 3-4 months of training is only rendering him slower like Sam Gagner where not much of that easy mass was quality mass. But if given the time to weight train properly, he can turn into a physical specimen with elite talents. But yeah like you said I'm just spouting crap...


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05-28-2011, 10:39 AM
  #27
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This is a year after he was drafted. He's a twig.

I can't find it but there is another pic somewhere that shows a closeup of his legs and they are probably 13 inches.

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05-28-2011, 11:02 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canovin View Post
Here, RNH is an ectomorph and P. Kane is a mesomoph.
Facts, RNH is naturally 165lbs 6'0.5'' while Kane is 170 jr weight at 5'9.5. Ectomorphs take a lot longer to hit their physical prime and A LOT longer to put on quality mass. If you ever weight lift before, it takes a lot more than 3-4 months to put quality mass as I am 5'7 160lbs 9% bodyfat, ectomorph, play hockey regularly and trains MMA as well and I am 25. It's take a hell a lot of training to get where I wanted to get in terms of explosive strength and muscle mass. Just think about it, for every 5 lbs of muscles you get, you'll get 2lbs of fat and another 2 lbs is water weight from when your muscle grows. You'll also need another 3-4 months to harden those muscles by doing of hypertrophy program with downsets to reduce that water retention. And on top of that, he'd have to do explosive training that requires months if not years to compensate for the weight gained. If you think by trying to gain weight and build explosiveness into one program, the results is minimal whereas doing each as separate programs in a prolong period of time will maximize your growth potential. So really, the weight RNH is getting from 3-4 months of training is only rendering him slower like Sam Gagner where not much of that easy mass was quality mass. But if given the time to weight train properly, he can turn into a physical specimen with elite talents. But yeah like you said I'm just spouting crap...
I never said you were spouting crap.

I just said prove what you were saying by backing it up with some sort of facts. Thanks for replying.

And for the record, RNH has already gained 7 pounds from his last listed weight according to some people and is now hovering around 172...so we'll see how he weighs in at the combine.

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05-28-2011, 11:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by canovin View Post
Here, RNH is an ectomorph and P. Kane is a mesomoph.
Facts, RNH is naturally 165lbs 6'0.5'' while Kane is 170 jr weight at 5'9.5. Ectomorphs take a lot longer to hit their physical prime and A LOT longer to put on quality mass. If you ever weight lift before, it takes a lot more than 3-4 months to put quality mass as I am 5'7 160lbs 9% bodyfat, ectomorph, play hockey regularly and trains MMA as well and I am 25. It's take a hell a lot of training to get where I wanted to get in terms of explosive strength and muscle mass. Just think about it, for every 5 lbs of muscles you get, you'll get 2lbs of fat and another 2 lbs is water weight from when your muscle grows. You'll also need another 3-4 months to harden those muscles by doing of hypertrophy program with downsets to reduce that water retention. And on top of that, he'd have to do explosive training that requires months if not years to compensate for the weight gained. If you think by trying to gain weight and build explosiveness into one program, the results is minimal whereas doing each as separate programs in a prolong period of time will maximize your growth potential. So really, the weight RNH is getting from 3-4 months of training is only rendering him slower like Sam Gagner where not much of that easy mass was quality mass. But if given the time to weight train properly, he can turn into a physical specimen with elite talents. But yeah like you said I'm just spouting crap...
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. But hey, keep reading your weight lifting forums and going to GNC. I'm sure your experience in your basement gym is the same as RNH having a personal trainer, a personal chef, and a program constructed specifically for him.

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05-28-2011, 01:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. But hey, keep reading your weight lifting forums and going to GNC. I'm sure your experience in your basement gym is the same as RNH having a personal trainer, a personal chef, and a program constructed specifically for him.
Sure dude. I train 5 days a week, my trainer is Antoine Vaillant and I do have a diet plan that I follow every day and on my off days. If you think maintaining 9 % body fat at my max BMI before summer is easy and only requires reading forums and training in the basement gym, then that's you. Let me know who's RNH's personal trainer is and personal chef cause right now RNH hasn't had a paycheck yet to get the top of the line quality weight training.

Here's my trainer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORyNK-H-21g

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05-28-2011, 02:12 PM
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Sure dude. I train 5 days a week, my trainer is Antoine Vaillant and I do have a diet plan that I follow every day and on my off days. If you think maintaining 9 % body fat at my max BMI before summer is easy and only requires reading forums and training in the basement gym, then that's you. Let me know who's RNH's personal trainer is and personal chef cause right now RNH hasn't had a paycheck yet to get the top of the line quality weight training.

Here's my trainer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORyNK-H-21g


He hasn't got a paycheck yet? Yea, I guess the Red Deer Rebels probably said "go it on your own Ryan, we can't afford to get you a guy." Not to mention when you hear top prospects in drafts talk about their trainer, dietician, etc, they're probably just lying.

But hey, like I said, we'll just take your word on it instead. When all the other small players in the NHL put on weight in their first year, it was a fluke. Hopkins will take years to put on quality muscle mass because you and your trainer say so.

Did you know it is much easier to fill out at Hopkins age than it is at your age? No? Well I did.

Did you know the 4+ inches in height difference between the two of you probably means he has a bigger frame than you? A bigger frame that can pack on more muscle mass? No? Well I did. I wonder is Billy Valentine or whatever your trainers name was knew that.

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05-28-2011, 02:31 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post


He hasn't got a paycheck yet? Yea, I guess the Red Deer Rebels probably said "go it on your own Ryan, we can't afford to get you a guy." Not to mention when you hear top prospects in drafts talk about their trainer, dietician, etc, they're probably just lying.

But hey, like I said, we'll just take your word on it instead. When all the other small players in the NHL put on weight in their first year, it was a fluke. Hopkins will take years to put on quality muscle mass because you and your trainer say so.

Did you know it is much easier to fill out at Hopkins age than it is at your age? No? Well I did.

Did you know the 4+ inches in height difference between the two of you probably means he has a bigger frame than you? A bigger frame that can pack on more muscle mass? No? Well I did. I wonder is Billy Valentine or whatever your trainers name was knew that.
Yes of course it's easier to put on weight at his age than mine, but here's the deal I was weight training at our his age. Now all I do is explosiveness, core stability, endurance, BJJ, boxing and kick boxing. The weight I put on was a long time ago.

Yes RNH has 4+ inches on me, but I'm 5'7 with very wide shoulders even when I was skinny, long reach and long legs and built very much like George St. Pierre. If RNH frame was big, we wouldn't have this conversation because that's the knock on him. He's 6'.5 like Taylor Hall but they are 2 different physical beasts since his shoulders aren't broad as Hall. RNH will max out at 185-190lbs while Hall can accommodate 205-210lbs. If RNH was built like Hall, RNH would be the consensus 1st overall pick and there wouldn't be a debate between him and Larsson.

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05-28-2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by canovin View Post
Yes of course it's easier to put on weight at his age than mine, but here's the deal I was weight training at our his age. Now all I do is explosiveness, core stability, endurance, BJJ, boxing and kick boxing. The weight I put on was a long time ago.

Yes RNH has 4+ inches on me, but I'm 5'7 with very wide shoulders, long reach and long legs and built very much like George St. Pierre. If RNH frame was big, we wouldn't have this conversation because that's the knock on him. He's 6'.5 like Taylor Hall but they are 2 different physical beasts since his shoulders are broad as Hall. RNH will max out at 185-190lbs while Hall can accommodate 205-210lbs. If RNH was built like Hall, RNH would be the consensus 1st overall pick and there wouldn't be a debate between him or Larsson.
RNH is the consensus first overall pick. And you just contradicted yourself. You said the weight you put on was a long time ago. Well.... why is that not an option for 18 year old RNH? Saying you put on a lot of explosive muscle when you were younger but can't now at 25 kind of sinks your own point doesn't it?

No one is expecting or wanting Hopkins to be a power forward. If he peaks out at around 190 I'm just fine with that. He plays a skilled and slippery game.

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05-28-2011, 02:39 PM
  #34
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These words do not cut it when describe players for the #1 pick.
Words from our head scout, who has had great success at drafting since '08. Just saying..

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05-28-2011, 02:45 PM
  #35
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There seems to be some blanket assumption that every prospect will pack on 20 or more pounds from when they are drafted. In the same way it is assumed that weak skaters will get power skating lessons and not be weak skaters anymore.

To me, RNH seems to have a very slender frame. I'd be very surprised if he passes 190 pounds at any point.


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05-28-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
RNH is the consensus first overall pick. And you just contradicted yourself. You said the weight you put on was a long time ago. Well.... why is that not an option for 18 year old RNH? Saying you put on a lot of explosive muscle when you were younger but can't now at 25 kind of sinks your own point doesn't it?

No one is expecting or wanting Hopkins to be a power forward. If he peaks out at around 190 I'm just fine with that. He plays a skilled and slippery game.
Yes I am 25 and he's 18. 7 years a part. It doesn't take 7 years to put on 20-25 lbs. It'll take about 2-3 years realistically under some consistency. However I have pointed out previously that 3-4 months to put on 15lbs is too short a time and I'm assuming RNH wants to be 180 by camp. What's the point of putting on mostly water and fat to render your speed when you are playing slippery? RNH wasn't fast in jr. What makes you think he'll be faster than most players in the NHL with intent to injure players while being under a significant speed lost?

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05-28-2011, 03:00 PM
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centers with less than 1.6PPg being drafted #1 are so rare. love his points from PP ratio and points from goals ratio. right there with other draft greats. daigle, bonsignore, kelly, Stefan, niinimaki.

This guy is a can't miss prospect.
you are seriously one of the worst poster ever with your stupid PPg formula



I'm definitely excited to see RNH as an Oiler. the kid just has SO much talent

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05-28-2011, 03:00 PM
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Yes I am 25 and he's 18. 7 years a part. It doesn't take 7 years to put on 20-25 lbs. It'll take about 2-3 years realistically under some consistency. However I have pointed out previously that 3-4 months to put on 15lbs is too short a time and I'm assuming RNH wants to be 180 by camp. What's the point of putting on mostly water and fat to render your speed when you are playing slippery? RNH wasn't fast in jr. What makes you think he'll be faster than most players in the NHL with intent to injure players while being under a significant speed lost?
If you're a string bean like Hopkins you can easily put on 15lbs of quality muscle before training camp. Hes a guy who's done pretty much no weight training his whole life. Obviously he'll hit a wall weight wise and it will be much harder to pack on muscle after that, but 15lbs? Shouldn't be a problem.

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05-28-2011, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
If you're a string bean like Hopkins you can easily put on 15lbs of quality muscle before training camp. Hes a guy who's done pretty much no weight training his whole life. Obviously he'll hit a wall weight wise and it will be much harder to pack on muscle after that, but 15lbs? Shouldn't be a problem.
My friend, sorry to say this to you but genetics plays a large factor in muscles growth. He's an ectomorph, not a mesomorph. He can lose weight easier than he can gain. If gaining 15 lbs of muscles within a span of 3-4 months was so easy, they wouldn't invent something called anabolic steroids and even then you still have to eat, sleep and train like animals. Even Brock Lesnar, a genetic freak who was "on steroid" can't put on 15 lbs of muscles in that time. You should go train and see for yourself.

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05-28-2011, 03:17 PM
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I gotta agree with canovin here that putting on lean muscle is a long, slow process. People who actually train hard know how hard it is to put on lean muscle mass, those who only read sports press releases have no idea. Everyone's weight varies by a few pounds per day based on things like water/carb storage, obviously RNH/his agent are going to compare his lowest daily weight to his highest daily weight, a gain of 7 pounds basically means "he was previously varying from 165-169 lbs, now he's varying from 168-172 lbs, but there was one day when we measured him at 165 lbs and one day when we measured him at a 172 lbs, so he's up 7 lbs!" This report came out just 1 month after the end of the WHL playoffs, he's probably up like 3 lbs for real (with the rest being daily weight fluctuation exaggerations based mostly on water), and most of those 3 pounds would probably be in carb and fat storage. Remember that he went from the intense physical exertion of the WHL season/playoffs to a bulking program, that means going from a state of super minimal water and carbohydrate weight to a state where you're eating like mad and doing less cardio, that's gonna mean a lot more water, carb and fat weight. Honestly I'd be surprised if he's gained much more than 1 lb of muscle.

These reports you hear from players/agents/teams are not lies, but they are very partial truths. Some fans here "player X gained 15 lbs over the summer" and think "sweet, 15 lbs of muscle," but that's not even close to being true. "15 pounds" in player/agent/team speak basically generally means something more along the lines of 5 pounds of water weight, 2 pounds of carbohydrate storage, 4 pounds of fat (from the high calorie bulking diet, that will quickly be lost as the season), and 4 pounds of lean muscle.

I really like RNH as a prospect, but regardless of how much weight RNH claims to put on over the summer, it'll probably be 5 pounds or less of lean muscle mass. For an ectomorph who will also be doing a tonne of cardio alongside all that weight training and eating, about 1-2 lbs of lean muscle per month is solid results, even if the total gains are way higher than that. I'm sure RNH will eventually put on enough muscle so that strength is not a major issue in the NHL, but it's going to take many summers, not just one. Right now his weight when playing hockey (so low fat/water/carb storage) is 165 lbs, you can probably expect him to gain about 5 lbs of lean muscle each summer, then lose a pound of lean muscle over the season (for a net gain of say, 4 lbs), so for him to get up to a more ideal mid-season/hockey playing weight of a lean 185 lbs is probably gonna take something like 5 years, assuming he stays dedicated. Hockey players are not body builders who just bulk year round and say "screw cardio, all I care about is putting on size 12 months a year," hockey players only bulk in the summers, do crazy weight-killing cardio all fall/winter/spring, and even in the summers they have to focus a lot on cardio and explosiveness as well. I'll bet an average gain of 4 pounds of lean muscle year after year for the first few seasons of any NHLers career is probably actually being pretty generous. That's not to say RNH won't be effective even in his first couple seasons at somewhat lower weights, he's very shifty and a lot of young guys do well in the NHL despite being semi-twigs, but don't expect him to put on 10 lbs of lean muscle mass per year, that doesn't really happen in the NHL, especially among ectomorphs. People like Rstar who think he should be able to "easily put on 15lbs of quality muscle before training camp" have clearly never done any sort of serious weight training.

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05-28-2011, 03:17 PM
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My friend, sorry to say this to you but genetics plays a large factor in muscles growth. He's an ectomorph, not a mesomorph. He can lose weight easier than he can gain. If gaining 15 lbs of muscles within a span of 3-4 months was so easy, they wouldn't invent something called anabolic steroids and even then you still have to eat, sleep and train like animals. Even Brock Lesnar, a genetic freak who was "on steroid" can't put on 15 lbs of muscles in that time. You should go train and see for yourself.
I have trained myself and my older brother won for body building in his division for Southern Alberta a few years back. You comparing him to Lesnar and steroids is ridiculous. You're coming off as extremely misinformed.

Want to know why Lesnar can't pack on 15lbs in a few months? Because hes way past his muscle potential. If Lesnar was 18 and hadn't hit the gym heavily yet, you can damn well bet putting on 15 lbs of muscle in a couple months would be childs play for him.

And do you know why they have steroids? Because when you hit that "wall" I was talking about, it makes it much easier to push past it. I was 155 give or take when I first started hitting the gym in highschool. It took maybe a summer to go from 155 to 175 all while lowering my fat percentage. All lean muscle gains. Once I got to 175 though it took me a year to get to 180. 175 at the time was my "wall".

Again, comparing that to a guy like Lesnar who has been well over his "wall" for years is asinine. And it seems you don't even understand steroids either, so your opinion on this matter is slightly lacking.

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05-28-2011, 03:19 PM
  #42
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There seems to be some blanket assumption that every prospect will pack on 20 or more pounds from when they are drafted. In the same way it is assumed that weak skaters will get power skating lessons and not be weak skaters anymore. To me, RNH seems to have a very slender frame. I'd be very surprised if he passes 190 pounds at any point.
Truer words were never spoken.

The HFboards concept of development:

18 to 19 years: '[Prospect X] will only get stronger and faster! I'm not a homer but I see [Prospect X] winning the Art Ross in a few years'

20 to 21 years: '[Prospect X] has hit a plateau. He will never be an impact player because his speed/strength on the puck/hockey sense/shot was always overrated'

22 to 23 years: '[Player X] is a great player but we need to trade him to make room for [Prospect Y] who is going to be a star! I'm not a homer but I see [Prospect Y] winning the Art Ross in a few years'

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05-28-2011, 03:24 PM
  #43
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I have trained myself and my older brother won for body building in his division for Southern Alberta a few years back. You comparing him to Lesnar and steroids is ridiculous. You're coming off as extremely misinformed.

Want to know why Lesnar can't pack on 15lbs in a few months? Because hes way past his muscle potential. If Lesnar was 18 and hadn't hit the gym heavily yet, you can damn well bet putting on 15 lbs of muscle in a couple months would be childs play for him.

And do you know why they have steroids? Because when you hit that "wall" I was talking about, it makes it much easier to push past it. I was 155 give or take when I first started hitting the gym in highschool. It took maybe a summer to go from 155 to 175 all while lowering my fat percentage. All lean muscle gains. Once I got to 175 though it took me a year to get to 180. 175 at the time was my "wall".

Again, comparing that to a guy like Lesnar who has been well over his "wall" for years is asinine. And it seems you don't even understand steroids either, so your opinion on this matter is slightly lacking.
You did not put on 20 lbs of lean muscle in one summer, you are either lying to us or to yourself, or both.

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05-28-2011, 03:27 PM
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You did not put on 20 lbs of lean muscle in one summer, you are either lying to us or to yourself, or both.
Another person who has no idea what they're talking about. Great.....


Putting on your initial weight is easy in your late teens. Once you hit your wall, not so much. But please, continue to spout garbage because your personal experience with a dumbbell in your basement didn't go so well.

Ever notice at the draft when they say "xxxxx gained 3 inches and 20 lbs over his last season with xxxxteam"? Maybe they're lying as well.

Again, and I don't know how to make this any clearer for you, Hopkins initial weight gain will be easy for him. Then he will reach a plateau weight that will be very hard for him to improve upon. That's not personal opinion, its fact.

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05-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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Another person who has no idea what they're talking about. Great.....


Putting on your initial weight is easy in your late teens. Once you hit your wall, not so much. But please, continue to spout garbage because your personal experience with a dumbbell in your basement didn't go so well.

Ever notice at the draft when they say "xxxxx gained 3 inches and 20 lbs over his last season with xxxxteam"? Maybe they're lying as well.

Again, and I don't know how to make this any clearer for you, Hopkins initial weight gain will be easy for him. Then he will reach a plateau weight that will be very hard for him to improve upon. That's not personal opinion, its fact.
Actually he is right, even with steroids in 3 months you might put on 15-20lbs, only half would actually be muscle, the rest is water. I work with guys on juice. I used to be a trainer, I train every week with guys that are on it or have been on it. They work their ass off just to gain 8-10lbs of muscle and thats with one of the most effective ways known to do it.

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05-28-2011, 03:39 PM
  #46
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Actually he is right, even with steroids in 3 months you might put on 15-20lbs, only half would actually be muscle, the rest is water. I work with guys on juice. I used to be a trainer, I train every week with guys that are on it or have been on it. They work their ass off just to gain 8-10lbs of muscle and thats with one of the most effective ways known to do it.
That is without the cardio a hockey player has to do during the summer, I assume.

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05-28-2011, 03:42 PM
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Actually he is right, even with steroids in 3 months you might put on 15-20lbs, only half would actually be muscle, the rest is water. I work with guys on juice. I used to be a trainer, I train every week with guys that are on it or have been on it. They work their ass off just to gain 8-10lbs of muscle and thats with one of the most effective ways known to do it.
I work and hang out with guys on juice as well. You guys seem to be misunderstanding initial muscle gain with muscle gain of a guy who has already packed on a ton of muscle.

I honestly don't understand why everyone is choosing to have reading comprehension today, because I've stated it fairly clearly. Hopkins INITIAL muscle gain will be easy for him. Once he reaches his ideal weight, putting on extra muscle will be hard.

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05-28-2011, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
If you're a string bean like Hopkins you can easily put on 15lbs of quality muscle before training camp. Hes a guy who's done pretty much no weight training his whole life. Obviously he'll hit a wall weight wise and it will be much harder to pack on muscle after that, but 15lbs? Shouldn't be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Another person who has no idea what they're talking about. Great.....


Putting on your initial weight is easy in your late teens. Once you hit your wall, not so much. But please, continue to spout garbage because your personal experience with a dumbbell in your basement didn't go so well.

Ever notice at the draft when they say "xxxxx gained 3 inches and 20 lbs over his last season with xxxxteam"? Maybe they're lying as well.

Again, and I don't know how to make this any clearer for you, Hopkins initial weight gain will be easy for him. Then he will reach a plateau weight that will be very hard for him to improve upon. That's not personal opinion, its fact.

You seem to have this misconception that "initial weight gain" means that the body turns into overdrive and creates lean muscle faster than is possible. He can gain a ton of water and fat, sure, but muscle does not come out that fast. Period. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and the other posters have made you look pretty stupid. You should probably just stop. Nobody puts on 15 lbs of lean muscle in 3 - 4 months. Hell, studies done show that the most they've seen in a YEAR is 18 - 20 lbs.

Just

Quote:
I honestly don't understand why everyone is choosing to have reading comprehension today, because I've stated it fairly clearly. Hopkins INITIAL muscle gain will be easy for him. Once he reaches his ideal weight, putting on extra muscle will be hard.
Stating something that is wrong over and over again doesn't mean other people have reading comprehension issues -- it just means that you're wrong.


Last edited by DaveG: 05-28-2011 at 04:13 PM. Reason: pic removed, circumvented profanity filters
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05-28-2011, 03:46 PM
  #49
ponder
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Originally Posted by Vincent_TheGreat View Post
Actually he is right, even with steroids in 3 months you might put on 15-20lbs, only half would actually be muscle, the rest is water. I work with guys on juice. I used to be a trainer, I train every week with guys that are on it or have been on it. They work their ass off just to gain 8-10lbs of muscle and thats with one of the most effective ways known to do it.
Exactly, and that's bodybuilders on steroids, focusing only on weight gain and not cardio/explosiveness/on ice hockey skills. As you said they might gain 6 lbs a month of total weight, but more like 3 lbs a month of lean muscle.

Sure if you're still growing height wise you can put on weight faster, but most 18 year olds have been at their max height for some time. For an ectomorph like RNH, who is trying to bulk while also improving his cardio, explosiveness, skills, etc., without steroids, averaging 2 lbs a month of lean muscle gain over a summer would be a great result.

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05-28-2011, 03:49 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
You seem to have this misconception that "initial weight gain" means that the body turns into overdrive and creates lean muscle faster than is possible. He can gain a ton of water and fat, sure, but muscle does not come out that fast. Period. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and the other posters have made you look pretty stupid. You should probably just stop. Nobody puts on 15 lbs of lean muscle in 3 - 4 months. Hell, studies done show that the most they've seen in a YEAR is 18 - 20 lbs.

Just



Stating something that is wrong over and over again doesn't mean other people have reading comprehension issues -- it just means that you're wrong.
Post the studies. I'd like to see them.


Last edited by DaveG: 05-28-2011 at 04:14 PM. Reason: removed pic from quote
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