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Old
05-26-2011, 12:59 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Why would you want to hold onto a guy that will prob be lucky to get 40pts, yet is the softest player on earth. Hes not good enough to be on the top 2 lines and not strong enough to be on the bottom 2 which means hes useless. Id rather Christ as a fill in top 2 line guy than W2.
Depth purposes in case of injuries. Shootout points. If he puts his game together, he can contribute some offensive production. We are just talking about using him next season, the final year of his contract.

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05-26-2011, 01:02 PM
  #77
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For me, the only keeping Wolski's trade value down is his contract. I think that he got a bit of bum wrap from Ranger fans, because he wasn't like the most of the guys who have all-around games. He had a great stretch with Step and MZA, but their playing time was heavily decreased when all of the injured players returned. And given that WW didn't do all the little things, he was scratched and didn't play a lot in the stretch run to the playoffs. I'm not so sure his play warranted that. In general, I thought he showed his talent, as well as what made coaches frustrated with him... but that is what you get with those Kovalev types.

I think he should be kept unless a good deal comes along. A 2nd rounder would work well.
Hes not Kovalev.

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05-26-2011, 01:11 PM
  #78
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I think wolski is extremely undervalued by ranger fans as far as trade value. He's gotten a bad a rap around here but I think if sather wants him out he'll find a taker, you cant really refute that the kid has talent.

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05-26-2011, 01:12 PM
  #79
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Why would you want to hold onto a guy that will prob be lucky to get 40pts, yet is the softest player on earth. Hes not good enough to be on the top 2 lines and not strong enough to be on the bottom 2 which means hes useless. Id rather Christ as a fill in top 2 line guy than W2. how would he be lucky to get us 40pts? every year in the nhl he has gotten OVER 40pts in a season. I think if you cant get back good value in picks/prospects for him, then keep him for another year and try him with Gaborik and hopefully Richards to see if he can fit or belong on our team. He played great for us when he was put in a position where u can play to his strengths.. (12pts in 18g) After Torts broke up the Stepan, Wolski, and Zucca line bc zucca and stepan dissapeared in the 2nd half and put him with EC and Avery thats when his game fell apart.

Keep him and let him play with Gaborik and hopefully Richards or let him play with Boyle and Prust.. They played GREAT together during the playoffs..

EC has been given plenty of chances on many teams and honestly besides the once in a blue moon random goal, he legitamitely adds nothing to this team. Atleast Wolski is a legit 40pt producer in the nhl

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05-26-2011, 01:14 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
I think wolski is extremely undervalued by ranger fans as far as trade value. He's gotten a bad a rap around here but I think if sather wants him out he'll find a taker, you cant really refute that the kid has talent.
Thank you! Finally someone who agrees. The kid is 25yo and is a consistant 40pt winger in the nhl. He may be over paid by about 1-2m but that should NOT decrease his trade value to a 7th round pick.

I cant wait till alot of you are proven wrong yet again, just like gomez, higgins, and kotalik trades

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05-26-2011, 01:15 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
I think wolski is extremely undervalued by ranger fans as far as trade value. He's gotten a bad a rap around here but I think if sather wants him out he'll find a taker, you cant really refute that the kid has talent.
There's no debating that he can probably find a taker, I'm just shocked people think he's worth a 2nd round pick.

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05-26-2011, 01:19 PM
  #82
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zubov, zherdev, antropov, kovalev, lisin, frolov, anisimov, nemchinov, karpotsev, bure, kasparaitis and unfortunately the late alex cherepanov.

the ny rangers have history with eastern european region players.

all this talk about russians being toxic is silly. teams will draft russians if they believe they can play and make their teams. if they can, then draft away. no reason to pass over talent because they are russian. if you can play hockey and you are from mars, you will get drafted. trust me.

the rub is this.

why would a young russian come here and play in the AHL when they can stay at home and develop and make

TAX FREE MONEY COMPETITIVE WITH THE MONEY THEY WOULD MAKE IN THE NHL FORGET ABOUT THE MEASLEY MONEY THEY MAKE PLAYING IN PERHAPS THE 4TH BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD- THE AHL.

the khl is just as much a developmental league as the ahl, major junior, ncaa or the sel for that matter. let them stay and develop there.

thats it in a nutshell. in the end, its all about the money- like everything else.

if these russian kids are bottom 6 types- they are better off playing in the kontinental league rather than playing here for peanuts.

especially the younger guys. when they say, like tarasenko is saying now '' i want to stay and play 1 more year in the khl so i am more physically ready to play in the nhl '' that means......

I WANT TO PLAY ONLY IN THE NHL AND MAKE BIG BUCKS- NO AHL FOR ME. cant blame them.

this is the dilema that teams face. draft a young russian and be patient with them. do NOT RUSH THEM. let them develop in the K for a few years. then get them to come over.

yes, there is always the possiblity that they will bolt back to russia if they arent playing or sent down. look at he teams that has happened to though....

they will come and stay to play in NYC. st louis, phx, cbus, nash, etc ..... maybe not so much.


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05-26-2011, 01:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
There's no debating that he can probably find a taker, I'm just shocked people think he's worth a 2nd round pick.
Why wouldnt he be worth a 2nd? You saw how some players who are JUST like Wolski get traded for a 2nd round pick. Plus Wolski is a couple of years younger and in his final year of his contract..

I find it more shocking that people think his worth is a 6th round pick. Im guessing those are the same people who thought gomez was untradeable, and Kotalik/Higgins had negative value.. But oh wait.. we did end up being able to trade all of them and got Prust, Gaborik, and Mcdonagh for them.

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05-26-2011, 01:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
That is ridiculous speculation? It's my opinion. I am allowed to my opinion.

Grossman told everyone at the 2007 draft that Cherepanov was coming over for the following season. Grossman said he had a deal worked out. Teams didn't believe him. Did Cherepanov come over? I don't trust Grossman when it comes to the Russian players. Is Radulov ever coming back to fulfill his Nashville contract? Grossman client. Kuznetsov is another Grossman client who is also staying in Russia next season. Look at Grossman's track record.

Jagr? He wears #68 because that was the year the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia but he plays in Siberia for the money.

It's like Private Joker in Full Metal Jacket wearing a peace symbol and the words Born To Kill are on his helmet. Which is it?

This is because Omsk would not release him from his contract like most KHL teams do. he was forced to honor it. Rather he honored it on his own accord but Omsk wasn't gonna let him go anyways. They were rather vocal about that I recall.

opinion: I think Cherepanov was a great player.
speculation: I think Cherepanov would have been a great player
the difference is that speculation is an opinion or conclusion that was reached on conjecture. I'm not trying to take sides but your statement was indeed speculation and not opinion. It was indeed GAG's opinion that your speculation was ridiculous.


Last edited by n8: 05-26-2011 at 01:38 PM.
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05-26-2011, 01:36 PM
  #85
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here. let's put this to rest.

http://www.beyondtheblueshirts.com/2...kes-cherepanov

Quote:
- Do you communicate with him often?

- Yes, sometimes I ask him about the NHL. Jaromir knows that I have been invited there, and once said: “You want to play in the NHL – train more.” After these words I began to work even harder. By the way, after each practice Jaromir works extra with me: shows me all kinds of techniques, teaches me how to shoot, tells me how and on what I still need to work. In a way he is one of my coaches.

- They say that you have postponed your departure to the NHL in many respects because Jagr came to Avangard…

- My contract with Avangard still runs for one year, so I did not think at all about a departure. And then when I learned that my idol would play in Omsk, I generally forgot about the NHL for awhile.
freakin' shame. Jagr was putting every ounce of hockey know-how into this kid.

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05-26-2011, 03:16 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Why wouldnt he be worth a 2nd? You saw how some players who are JUST like Wolski get traded for a 2nd round pick. Plus Wolski is a couple of years younger and in his final year of his contract..

I find it more shocking that people think his worth is a 6th round pick. Im guessing those are the same people who thought gomez was untradeable, and Kotalik/Higgins had negative value.. But oh wait.. we did end up being able to trade all of them and got Prust, Gaborik, and Mcdonagh for them.
40 point players are let go for less everyday. Petr Prucha's a prime example. And the guy has so much more heart than Wolski does.

The Kotalik/Higgins deal is the exception, not the rule. I can't begin to understand how we got a good rental in Jokinen and Prust AND had Calgary take two guys off our hands without anything else involved. At least in the Gomez trade, Gomez and Pyatt are decent chips...Gomez's contract just stinks. Calgary gained absolutely nothing.

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05-26-2011, 03:37 PM
  #87
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Go look at the number of Russian born players in the NHL from 10 years ago to today. There is not a single born Russian player playing for any of the conference final teams. There must be a reason for that. Teams are shying away from drafting Russian players. No transfer agreement. KHL factor. Look at how Radulov and Grossman burned Nashville who had Radulov signed only to see him bolt for the KHL. Filatov has been a disaster for Columbus. There is a rumor today coming out of Russia about Filatov bolting for the KHL but he's denying it. He already bolted once before from Columbus. The Tarasenko situation. The Rangers sent Lutchenko one last time to talk with Tarasenko right before the draft. They didn't select Tarasenko or Kuznetsov when those looked as obvious Rangers targets. Too many unknowns when you draft a Russian player. Just look at the number of the Russian players in the NHL.
There are good Russians in the KHL for sure.

But the kids are coming over. And the kids that are doing well are staying. Except Radulov who was snatched by a tremendous offer. But again, the kids are coming over. I've not followed every highly touted kid, there is a few I've lost track of -- but I can't actually think of a single highly touted kid who have not come over.

The Russians want to be in the NHL. Look at guys like Zherdev and Frolov leaving million of USD on the table to get a chance to play in the NHL. I don't care, but its just BS to say that they do not want to be on the NHL. If a kid like Zherdev leaves that amount of money on the table, it says something.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I don't think the issue is whether they'll come over, it's whether they'll stay here. And in the case of guys like Radulov, Filatov, etc. it seems like they get impatient with having to go through the motions of being a prospect and playing in the minors and only making 5 figures on their 2-way deal when if they were int he NHL they'd be making $500K+, that it's easy for them to bolt to Russia and sign a multi-million dollar deal. It's rare you see high profile prospects of any other nationality leave for another league before at least getting their fair chance at an NHL job. These guys bolt before their teams can even let them develop and let them give the NHL a shot. And they do it by choice rather than not having many options left, or deciding between career AHLer or playing in Europe.
Filatov was a horrible pick, and I said it before he was drafted. Its beyond me how anyone could take him in the top 15. If you want to gamble, like take him 20-25 overall, if you want a solid pick, you do not take him before the mid-second round. No hockey sense. No work ethic. Not really a sniper either. Just a player that takes up a lot of ice to produce very little.

Radulov was blown away by a offer. It will happened for sure. The best Russians will both get paid and stay in the NHL. But guys below them could get snatched.

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05-26-2011, 03:51 PM
  #88
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40 point players are let go for less everyday. Petr Prucha's a prime example. And the guy has so much more heart than Wolski does.

The Kotalik/Higgins deal is the exception, not the rule. I can't begin to understand how we got a good rental in Jokinen and Prust AND had Calgary take two guys off our hands without anything else involved. At least in the Gomez trade, Gomez and Pyatt are decent chips...Gomez's contract just stinks. Calgary gained absolutely nothing.
I havent seen any 25yo 40pt players let go for less than a 2nd in a trade in a long time. Dont give me a Petr Prucha comparison, the guy had 1 or 2 good seasons and that was it.. Yes he had heart but not much else. Wolski every year in the nhl has basically topped 40pts, and is on another skill level than Prucha was, plus he has an nhl body.. only thing he lacks is heart.. but in the end a player like that is worth a 2nd round pick.

How is Kotalik/Higgins an exception and not the rule? They were traded and we got back solid players for them. Dont see how thats an exception, its just being good at trading and knowing what your players are worth. Gomez is basically the same boat that Wolski is in. Neither are worth their price tag, only thing is Wolski is younger, alittle less skilled, and only has one year left on his 3.8m contract. Sorry but Wolski is still a valuable peice regardless of how many people want to put him or any other player down that we were able to trade.

Maybe the right gm will take a chance on him for a 2nd, or a 3rd, but no way in hell would i give him up for what everyone else seems to think he is worth (6-7th round pick) What terrible asset management some of you guys have.. Thinking back i believe if alot of people on here at it their way, we would have given gomez up for free bc he had negative value right? Give me a break guys

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05-26-2011, 06:37 PM
  #89
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Assuming there's a reasonable chance Tarasenko would actually get here at some point soon and play, and that he is not, as was insightfully pointed out, I think by GAGline, a Grossman client, then what about Girardi + lesser pick(s) for Barret Jackman + Tarasenko?

What do you think, and what do you think JD would think?

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05-26-2011, 06:52 PM
  #90
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
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Assuming there's a reasonable chance Tarasenko would actually get here at some point soon and play, and that he is not, as was insightfully pointed out, I think by GAGline, a Grossman client, then what about Girardi + lesser pick(s) for Barret Jackman + Tarasenko?

What do you think, and what do you think JD would think?
jd would be run outa town were he to agree to that deal. unless that "lesser pick" had extreme value and unless he was told flat out by vlady, im not coming to play in st lou. other than that, not happening.

look, tarasenko will be a stud in this league within 2 years. period.

people unfamiliar with this player need to understand, hes a friggin bull who can snipe it. hes about 6 ft tall and 215 lbs of muscle. hes a complete player.

had he been canadian, he would have gone top 5 in last years draft.

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05-26-2011, 07:13 PM
  #91
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jd would be run outa town were he to agree to that deal. unless that "lesser pick" had extreme value and unless he was told flat out by vlady, im not coming to play in st lou. other than that, not happening.
Tarasenko's value aside, JD traded David Rundblad in order to draft him.

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05-26-2011, 07:16 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
jd would be run outa town were he to agree to that deal. unless that "lesser pick" had extreme value and unless he was told flat out by vlady, im not coming to play in st lou. other than that, not happening.

look, tarasenko will be a stud in this league within 2 years. period.

people unfamiliar with this player need to understand, hes a friggin bull who can snipe it. hes about 6 ft tall and 215 lbs of muscle. hes a complete player.

had he been canadian, he would have gone top 5 in last years draft.
Well that's the point...he'd trade us Vlad and then come do color commentary for us again.

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05-26-2011, 07:23 PM
  #93
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
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Well that's the point...he'd trade us Vlad and then come do general managing for us .
so lets say it went like this

to

girardi + grachev + slats


to

tarasenko + jackman + jd

now we can talk

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05-26-2011, 11:16 PM
  #94
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With all due respect, why would he do that? He's got his own organization to worry about. I don't think Wooly would garner ONE second let alone TWO. Pipedream situation.
IT WAS A JOKE. Seriously, with all due respect, do we all need to put a EVERYTIME WE MAKE AN "OBVIOUS" JOKE?

Why the heck would I think JD would "help" his former team? He has ab obligation to "help" his OWN team. Or its his butt and he gets canned.

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05-26-2011, 11:27 PM
  #95
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IT WAS A JOKE. Seriously, with all due respect, do we all need to put a EVERYTIME WE MAKE AN "OBVIOUS" JOKE?
.
Yes.... The potential for stupid people on the internet cannot be underestimated.

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05-26-2011, 11:38 PM
  #96
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Yes.... The potential for stupid people on the internet cannot be underestimated.
So sad

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05-27-2011, 09:32 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
why would a young russian come here and play in the AHL when they can stay at home and develop and make

TAX FREE MONEY COMPETITIVE WITH THE MONEY THEY WOULD MAKE IN THE NHL FORGET ABOUT THE MEASLEY MONEY THEY MAKE PLAYING IN PERHAPS THE 4TH BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD- THE AHL.

I WANT TO PLAY ONLY IN THE NHL AND MAKE BIG BUCKS- NO AHL FOR ME. cant blame them.
This. As Canadian and American kids have different ways to achieve their dream of playing in NHL, so do kids from Russia. Some of them want to copy "standard" Canadian path via major junior leagues then onto AHL and NHL. There are benefits and negatives with this path - on a plus side - it's a common way, very visible to NHL scouts and guarantees plenty of playing time that they might not get in KHL. On the other hand - imagine yourselves leaving everything behind and coming to a completely new place with no familiarity in language or culture and having to perform at your highest level when your head is spinning from all of this?

On the other hand especially with kids who could sign good contracts in KHL, want to stay home and develop there to limit (or completely avoid) possibility of playing in NA at any levels lower than NHL. I don't see how two years in KHL is worse for development than the same two years in Canadian junior leagues.

And as far as a lesser number of Russian players in NHL concerns, it's simply supply and demand economics. A prototypical forward (not a kid anymore) who we used to see playing on a 3rd line in NHL and compensated accordingly, could be playing 1st or 2nd line minutes in Russia, and recognized & compensated accordingly as well (plus all of the cultural benefits of playing at home). What do you think would be a reasonable choice?

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05-27-2011, 11:29 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
so lets say it went like this

to

girardi + grachev + slats


to

tarasenko + jackman + jd

now we can talk

This has real potential.
Would give choice of Brian Boyle or Grachev

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05-27-2011, 01:23 PM
  #99
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This has real potential.
Would give choice of Brian Boyle or Grachev
i think jackmans overrated BIG TIME. Id keep Girardi and Grachev thank you very much. for the most part, Slats hasnt done an awful job since the lockout, except for the 3 monumental screwups. luckily we can bury them with our cash.

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05-27-2011, 01:33 PM
  #100
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i think jackmans overrated BIG TIME. Id keep Girardi and Grachev thank you very much. for the most part, Slats hasnt done an awful job since the lockout, except for the 3 monumental screwups. luckily we can bury them with our cash.
hugh jessiman says 'o'rly? only 3?'

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