By the way, I know this question must have been answered thousands of times, but why can't the Arena project be a entirely paid for by Wang like the Lighthouse? Why the corporate welfare?
Wang doesn't have the money.
And the generous one who ripped off all those shareholders has a potential lawsuit looking.
That would be why.
Anyone else gonna canonize this great man any further?
ferris made ONE point that should suffice for all.....he's all we got.
Whether he's Milstein cheap (if Milstein had a cap floor he could go 10M below) or not, he's all we have so I'm pulling for the bastid. I hope he does really well so he can finally sell and leave our team for good.
Maybe people around here have a right to be suspecious of Wang and his sinister true intentions (like actually turning a profit), but not me. Has he made bad business decisions regarding Milbury/DiPietro/Yashin? Yes he has, but he also seems to have learned from them. Some posters around here, fans of this very team, act like he's the antichrist (or like he was actually responsible for Fishsticks), but he's not. The only thing he's been guilty of is a couple of really, really poor contracts and being overly loyal. Oddly enough, the former doesn't actually effect us in any way and the later is long gone. Hey...at least he gave a couple of contracts out.
You don't have to be a fan of this team since the glory days to extrapolate the impact the next couple of months will have on the future of the Islanders on Long Island. Personally, im 32 and don't really remember any of the championships. But what I do know is the the few of the better memories I have of this team (1993, 2001, return of the original crest/colors, Pittsburg-pouding) and optimism/anticipation I currently have over what lies ahead have happened or will happen with him as the owner.
Thats my rant. Im kinda pissed off today and I can't take the ******** anymore. Love Wang or hate him, he's what we have and all we have. We're both blessed and cursed with him. If you wish to turn a blind eye and villionize him, so be it. But you better realize that [insert billionaire who loves to lose money here] is not coming to save this franchise.
It is funny how most of the same people attack him for not spending money on UFAs, forget, or even worse vilify him for signing DP or Yash
I personally would rather have a guy like Tavares or MacDonald that was drafted and developed here, help us win rounds in the playoffs. Rather than having rookies and younger guys be mostly role players and have to buy FA mercenaries to help us win. Players that dont care about LI, and just come for the money.
And seeing how Atlanta just lost a team, anyone that thinks a billionaire is coming to save us.....without a new arena and a playoff bound team every year are dreaming. I would love to sell them some bridges and tunnels in the city. I swear their mine, and I'll give them away with no money down and low adjustable rates!!!!!!
Oh and Sid teh Kid, just because one owner (of an OHL team in Canada, not an NHL team in the States) does so, does not mean Wang will do that. And we know a cheapskate owner (Charles O Pickett)
If you front some money to Wilpon&Co to buy the team or pay for the arena, go right on ahead. They aren't spending it and Wang is pretty locked as far as a floated government issued bond is concerned. Nassau needs the jobs and there is no downside to the localities here. (says the bigtime anti-LHP poster)
Until then, Queens is just a bunch of guys in dresses as far as I care.
Because Wilpon is the only guy who can buy NYI for Queens? You spent 4 years and 3 million posts telling us there were other possible NYI owners besides Wang yet the same doesn't apply in Queens? Nelson Peltz, the hedge fund dude and countless possible others might disagree. Maybe your good pal Wang goes to Queens when it's a NO in Mayberry RFD.
Funny how you focused on my last line and ignored all the reasons why Crazy Eddie's plan might not work as you see it as a foregone conclusion with your pal Wang locked in. Priceless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesFanatic
Just ignore those posts. Its the same drivel every day. Queens this Queens that. So friggin tired of hearing about Queens. The Isles are LONG ISLAND's team. Nuff said.
As Judd Hirsch said to Molly Ringwald in Breakfast Club, "Sweets, you couldn't ignore me if you tried".
NYI have sucked and been ignored for 20 years on LI. Yup, LONG ISLAND'S team. If it's QUEENS team they'd get noticed and couldn't suck half as much. Plus trains, media, fans and corporate support would reach them - what a concept!
Face it, Nassau's politicians and the 19 fans left don't deserve them.
How's the stake er, steak grillin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey
Wang doesn't have the money..
Waddya mean? Haven't you heard he's gonna pay everything over $350 million for the arena and the taxpayers won't pay a dime? Get with the program!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnut
It is not like they are firing so many cops that the public is at risk, especially certain parts of Nassau (I wont say where) wont be affected at all.
And I never said the arena is more important, but you seem to put them ahead of everybody. People get fired. People get fired that are in unions (I know my dad was one) so the teachers and police are not the problem but if you can cut the higher paying jobs and it not affect the masses, why not? Because they are untouchable??
From what I understand they wont do jack ****.
They can piss and moan, they will get the info and if they have concerns they will talk to the pols and Wang. They are not the gatekeeper, end all be all like you make them out to be..
Oy vey. Firing 1 cop puts the public at risk. Firing teachers is not the problem? Make sure you run for mayor. When Johnny gets mugged and can't read in Nassau it will be comforting to know the tax dollars went to see Lady Gaga and Garth Snow's gem.
Regarding NIFA, simply YOU ARE WRONG. Nassau's financial incompetence indeed makes NIFA the be all and end all in this case. Case closed. Do some reading and you might really understand. Then again, maybe a teacher you had got fired.
A state oversight board says it's ready to take its shot at trimming the fat from Nassau County's $2.6 billion budget.
The Nassau Interim Finance Authority, which took control of the county's books in January, will hire an accounting firm this month that will spend the summer scouring Nassau's departmental spending and recommending ways to secure cost savings.
Not what Wang wants to hear the day after the August 1 referendum was approved. He should explore all his options because his fight to keep the Isles in Nassau is going to get uglier before it ever gets better.
I had a question/query about Wang's intentions, should you guys get a new arena. Has he explicitly stated he will start spending if/when the new arena is finalized? The reason I ask is we had a similar (albeit on a much smaller scale) situation with the OHL club in my home town.
The building was old, broken down, and a joke by today's standards, and the owner was a notorious cheapskate who seemed to care only about the value of the franchise, not its record on the ice. The owner (we'll call him Doug Springer) bleeted and complained endlessly that unless we got a new arena, there was no way the franchise could generate enough revenue to compete with the "richer" OHL clubs. He excused the club's pitiful record, year after year, on just not being able to compete with the London Knights, the Windsor Spitfires, the Kitchener Rangers, etc. Every chance he got, he repeated that claim.
Fast forward to today, and lo and behold, we have our shiny new arena. We went from a dilapidated 3000 seat barn, to a state-of-the-art sports complex seating 5500, including luxury suites. So the owner got what he wanted. But guess what? He's still a cheapskate who won't spend a single dime to turn the franchise into a contender. The club is just as bad, some might argue worse, today as it was back when games were played in that run down, barn. Nothing has changed on the ice, only Springer's wallet is getting bigger now.
I guess after all that explanation, I'm curious if Wang truly intends to actually spend after he gets his arena, or if he'll pull a "Springer" and basically spend just as little, but now reap the rewards of all that extra revenue a new arena brings in?
The thing is, we're not choosing between Good Islanders and Bad Islanders. We're choosing between Islanders and No Islanders. The bottom line is without a new arena they won't be playing here beyond 2015.
A state oversight board says it's ready to take its shot at trimming the fat from Nassau County's $2.6 billion budget.
The Nassau Interim Finance Authority, which took control of the county's books in January, will hire an accounting firm this month that will spend the summer scouring Nassau's departmental spending and recommending ways to secure cost savings.
Not what Wang wants to hear the day after the August 1 referendum was approved. He should explore all his options because his fight to keep the Isles in Nassau is going to get uglier before it ever gets better.
Also from the article:
While NIFA cannot impose the accountant's recommendations, Mangano's 2012 budget must still come before NIFA for approval, possibly putting pressure on the administration to implement the suggestions. "Hopefully common sense and public opinion will rule the day," Marlin said.
The Mangano administration indicated that it would cooperate with the review but did not comment on whether it would heed the recommendations.
and
But Presiding Officer Peter Schmitt (R- Massapequa ) called the audit "a waste of taxpayer money. NIFA ought to work jointly with the Nassau County comptroller's office to conduct audits."
No better way to reduce a deficit than to eliminating several streams of tax revenue.
While NIFA cannot impose the accountant's recommendations, Mangano's 2012 budget must still come before NIFA for approval, possibly putting pressure on the administration to implement the suggestions. "Hopefully common sense and public opinion will rule the day," Marlin said.
The Mangano administration indicated that it would cooperate with the review but did not comment on whether it would heed the recommendations.
and
But Presiding Officer Peter Schmitt (R- Massapequa ) called the audit "a waste of taxpayer money. NIFA ought to work jointly with the Nassau County comptroller's office to conduct audits."
No better way to reduce a deficit than to eliminating several streams of tax revenue.
Sounds good on surface but 400 million would have to be borrowed as well as interest, which would put Nassau county under bigger debt to start.
While NIFA cannot impose the accountant's recommendations, Mangano's 2012 budget must still come before NIFA for approval, possibly putting pressure on the administration to implement the suggestions. "Hopefully common sense and public opinion will rule the day," Marlin said.
The Mangano administration indicated that it would cooperate with the review but did not comment on whether it would heed the recommendations.
and
But Presiding Officer Peter Schmitt (R- Massapequa ) called the audit "a waste of taxpayer money. NIFA ought to work jointly with the Nassau County comptroller's office to conduct audits."
No better way to reduce a deficit than to eliminating several streams of tax revenue.
I don't know the numbers, nor do I know where to look them up...but...long term vs. short term.
Cut out the new building from Nassau's budget to save around $400million vs. the amount of tax revenue the new place and the construction will bring in. (The supplies have to be bought somewhere, the workers gotta fill up their cars somewhere, the workers have to buy their lunch somewhere...)
I know I'm an idiot for suggesting that politicians think long term.
As Judd Hirsch said to Molly Ringwald in Breakfast Club, "Sweets, you couldn't ignore me if you tried".
NYI have sucked and been ignored for 20 years on LI. Yup, LONG ISLAND'S team. If it's QUEENS team they'd get noticed and couldn't suck half as much. Plus trains, media, fans and corporate support would reach them - what a concept!
Face it, Nassau's politicians and the 19 fans left don't deserve them.
How's the stake er, steak grillin?
What makes you think if they were in Queens all this time they wouldnt have sucked? And its pretty obvious you want the Isles in Queens for selfish reasons. Guess you live there. The 19 fans left? I find that ****ing insulting. You are not an Islanders fan. Sorry.
I don't know the numbers, nor do I know where to look them up...but...long term vs. short term.
Cut out the new building from Nassau's budget to save around $400million vs. the amount of tax revenue the new place and the construction will bring in. (The supplies have to be bought somewhere, the workers gotta fill up their cars somewhere, the workers have to buy their lunch somewhere...)
I know I'm an idiot for suggesting that politicians think long term.
Not to mention the tax revenues that would leave with the isles.
Not to mention the tax revenues that would leave with the isles.
I would think that NIFA is assuming the land surronding the Coliseum will be developed with private money which should offset some tax revenue that would leave with the Isles.
I would think that NIFA is assuming the land surronding the Coliseum will be developed with private money which should offset some tax revenue that would leave with the Isles.
Without some sort of central draw there is no way that land is going to get developed.
What is the tax revenue gained from unoccupied retail space?
I cannot believe no one has promoted this website before, but let me be the Pied Piper of it...
If you don't already read www.lettherebelighthouse.com, then it's a must for information and perspective on the new arena situation. I've been speaking to its author, Nick, for years now as we tried to get the Lighthouse passed and the guy knows his stuff cold. What he doesn't know, he researches until he gets it sometimes better than those who should know it do.
Anyway, his latest post is another gem. Take a read and save this website into your favorites:
I cannot believe no one has promoted this website before, but let me be the Pied Piper of it...
If you don't already read www.lettherebelighthouse.com, then it's a must for information and perspective on the new arena situation. I've been speaking to its author, Nick, for years now as we tried to get the Lighthouse passed and the guy knows his stuff cold. What he doesn't know, he researches until he gets it sometimes better than those who should know it do.
Anyway, his latest post is another gem. Take a read and save this website into your favorites:
Charles Wang and the Lighthouse group made a mistake by not getting further out in front of issues previously, and they allowed the project to die over rumor, innuendo, and intransigent TOH nonsense.
Seriously? The TOH and Murray were never going to allow this due to the size and impact on their town services.
Seriously? The TOH and Murray were never going to allow this due to the size and impact on their town services.
Not to mention that Wang would not play ball with Murray's cronies and wanted to include low income housing in the project which would likely mean more votes for Democrats based on voting patterns of lower income voters in the New York metro area
Back in June of 2000, bi-partisan legislation created NIFA to assist the county in getting its financial house back in order. With this came a $100 million bailout that required the county, to among other things, fix its broken home assessment system.
Quote:
However, Suozzi and the Democrat Majority, over their eight years running the County Executive’s office and 10 years in control of the County Legislature fixed nothing. In fact, they made it worse. In addition, Tom Suozzi and the Democrat majority left the new County Executive Ed Mangano with a $133 million deficit.
Quote:
While not getting too technical, NIFA has said that certain revenue items and other budget practices in the Mangano budget are risky and not acceptable under normal accounting principles. Now what is interesting is that these same items and budget practices that NIFA has declared as their reason for declaring a “control period,” are the same that were permitted by NIFA from 2002 to 2010 in the Suozzi budgets.
Quote:
Not only are almost all the NIFA Board Members Democrat, one also happens to be Mr. Suozzi’s former budget director. This has led Mr. Mangano to state recently that “the architects of Nassau’s budget mess are now acting as its watchdogs”.
NIFA is gonna do everything the same way all pols do, if it makes one party look good than the other will be against it!
Wow. Now we really know why NIFA doesnt want this. They are Dems and wont get credit for it. I find it funny how it was allowed under Suozzi but the same practices under Mangano arte being scrutinized. Ahhh, politics at its best. What a joke.
[/QUOTE]NIFA is gonna do everything the same way all pols do, if it makes one party look good than the other will be against it![/QUOTE]
Someone else finally seeing the light. This deal has nothing to do with taxes, money , or NIFA. It's all about credit and who gets it. Mangano wants it, Wang wants it NIFA wants it.
The fact that NIFA, the very commission born to audit and oversee Nassau's finances, has hired an outside accounting firm to audit tells you all you need to know about them. The very company brought in to ensure money is being spent wisely is spending untold millions to an outside company. Funny how the tax payers have no say in that.
This will get passed and it will get the Ok form all parties involved. They will put their ego's enough in check to make it happen because it's good for the County plain and simple.
Those who point out that all of the details should be studied before a decision is made are spot on. If all the details are released in June then the vote will be fair. But based on, not only Nassau's political track record, but on all political deals similar to this one, I have a hard time believing that the voting public will be fully informed. But thats just my opinion.
Now let's get back to speculating which is far more entertaining.
No matter how hard I try to make this deal favorable to Wang I cannot make the numbers work so that the team is competitive, Wang makes a profit and the arena pays for itself no matter how many concerts and tractor pulls are booked.
Let's go on the ridiculous supposition that the interest collected by the bond repayments is enough to cover the full cost of the dept interest.
350 million dollars with no interest charged over thirty years equals 11.66 million dollars a year.
According to Forbes the average operating costs of an NHL franchise in 2003 was 70 million dollars.
So Wangs dept every year is 81.66 million dollars a year for the next thirty years.
We can expect the cost of the dept to decrease over time but we can also expect operating costs to continue to rise.
So the Arena in order just to break even needs to produce 1.57 million dollars a week every week for thirty years.
If the Islanders sell outevery home game with an average ticket cost of $75.00 they will produce a total yearly revenue of 55.35 million.
Add the yearly TV money, parking, concessions, naming rights you get close to the break even point.
Generally when a venue is booked for a concert, or other event, it is rented to the promoter so the revenue streams are a lot different then when the home team is using the facility. With that said we may now see some profits but this is hardly a gold mine for the owner.
And think of what it took to get here
Interest free bond
Steady middle of the pack 2003 operating cost
Sell out of 1230 consecutive home games
So if Wang makes an agreement to pay back only a certain percentage of the bond from the arena so he can insure operating costs and profit, and then convinces Mangano that the shortfall can be made up from additional development, without full discloser on how this development will be financed, and Mangano goes along with this but agrees to bury this fact deep within the plan..........Well
Let's Go Islanders!
Nassau county taxpayers........Suckers!
Sound crazy? or is it just Business as usual in Nassau county?
Those who point out that all of the details should be studied before a decision is made are spot on. If all the details are released in June then the vote will be fair. But based on, not only Nassau's political track record, but on all political deals similar to this one, I have a hard time believing that the voting public will be fully informed. But thats just my opinion.
Now let's get back to speculating which is far more entertaining.
No matter how hard I try to make this deal favorable to Wang I cannot make the numbers work so that the team is competitive, Wang makes a profit and the arena pays for itself no matter how many concerts and tractor pulls are booked.
Let's go on the ridiculous supposition that the interest collected by the bond repayments is enough to cover the full cost of the dept interest.
350 million dollars with no interest charged over thirty years equals 11.66 million dollars a year.
According to Forbes the average operating costs of an NHL franchise in 2003 was 70 million dollars.
So Wangs dept every year is 81.66 million dollars a year for the next thirty years.
We can expect the cost of the dept to decrease over time but we can also expect operating costs to continue to rise.
So the Arena in order just to break even needs to produce 1.57 million dollars a week every week for thirty years.
If the Islanders sell outevery home game with an average ticket cost of $75.00 they will produce a total yearly revenue of 55.35 million.
Add the yearly TV money, parking, concessions, naming rights you get close to the break even point.
Generally when a venue is booked for a concert, or other event, it is rented to the promoter so the revenue streams are a lot different then when the home team is using the facility. With that said we may now see some profits but this is hardly a gold mine for the owner.
And think of what it took to get here
Interest free bond
Steady middle of the pack 2003 operating cost
Sell out of 1230 consecutive home games
So if Wang makes an agreement to pay back only a certain percentage of the bond from the arena so he can insure operating costs and profit, and then convinces Mangano that the shortfall can be made up from additional development, without full discloser on how this development will be financed, and Mangano goes along with this but agrees to bury this fact deep within the plan..........Well
Let's Go Islanders!
Nassau county taxpayers........Suckers!
Sound crazy? or is it just Business as usual in Nassau county?
So you don't believe the hockey team, concert and events calendar, the baseball stadium combined can pay $15M annually to increase their revenue stream and protect a vital income source for the county government, local business and so on?
Which is crazier:
Paying $300M to guarantee an income of at minimum 5 times that (going by the assumed inflationary increase in revenue the Forbes numbers suggest) plus income from eventsm concessions, parking, advertising and so on over those thirty years....
So you don't believe the hockey team, concert and events calendar, the baseball stadium combined can pay $15M annually to increase their revenue stream and protect a vital income source for the county government, local business and so on?
Which is crazier:
Paying $300M to guarantee an income of at minimum 5 times that (going by the assumed inflationary increase in revenue the Forbes numbers suggest) plus income from eventsm concessions, parking, advertising and so on over those thirty years....
or....
Paying $910,178 for a $400,000 house?
Just asking.
Also, automatically lob off a good 3-5mil off the yearly cost for selling the naming rights of the facility(s). I presume 100% of that will go toward paying off the debt, as the county still owns the building.
