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06-14-2011, 06:42 AM
  #876
Monctonscout
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Red Line top 10:

1-RNH
2-Landeskog
3-Larsson
4-Huberdeau
5-Hamilton
6-Murphy
7-Strome
8-Couturier
9-Miller
10-Grimaldi

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06-14-2011, 06:45 AM
  #877
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11-20

11-Klefblom
12-Scheifele
13-Khokhlachev
14-Zibanejad
15-Puempel
16-McNeill
17-Musil
18-Beaulieu
19-Rattie
20-Armia

21-30

21-Saad
22-Jensen
23-Biggs
24-Siemens
25-Namestinkov
26-Brodin
27-Bartschi
28-Oleksiak
29-Gibson
30-Morrow

In two mock drafts we get...Beaulieu and Miller

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06-14-2011, 07:34 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by eaglesmaster View Post
Doesn't mean much, Angelo Esposito met with habs scouting multiple times too (4 times as well iirc) and made the right move in passing on him. So I wouldn't look too much into it. Sometimes they make sure people notice that they are looking at local talent to let the media know that just because we are not drafting them, doesn't mean we are not interested or not looking to draft them.
At the same time, he's the type of player the Habs are looking for on draft day. m sure they are interested in him and would like to draft him. Where in the draft...that's the question. Would they trade down once...or maybe even twice to get him in the bottom of the first round? Would they trade down and hope to get him in the second round? Maybe even though they are interested, they will like another guy better...

I don't think Esposito was really in the Habs plan on draft day. He's not the right fit...

The only way I'll be surprised if the Habs draft Danault is if they take him with the 17th pick...

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06-14-2011, 07:44 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
At the same time, he's the type of player the Habs are looking for on draft day. m sure they are interested in him and would like to draft him. Where in the draft...that's the question. Would they trade down once...or maybe even twice to get him in the bottom of the first round? Would they trade down and hope to get him in the second round? Maybe even though they are interested, they will like another guy better...

I don't think Esposito was really in the Habs plan on draft day. He's not the right fit...

The only way I'll be surprised if the Habs draft Danault is if they take him with the 17th pick...
I really like the kid, but that would be a huge reach with the potential high end guys still available.

Bournival went early 3rd round and they are very comparable in size, style, skill and character.

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06-14-2011, 08:37 AM
  #880
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Most of picks are traded at the time of the pick. Montreal will go into the draft with players in their sight. If the guy they covet is gone, they will contact teams to let them know, they are interested in moving down.

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06-14-2011, 08:50 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Most of picks are traded at the time of the pick. Montreal will go into the draft with players in their sight. If the guy they covet is gone, they will contact teams to let them know, they are interested in moving down.
I can see them having 3-4 guys lined up at 17, if a couple of those guys go early they may be tempted to trade down a couple of picks, say to 14 or 15 to get McNeill or Schefele if those are guys they like...or if it looks like all 3-4 are still there at 17, they could trade down 5-6 picks and add a late 2nd and still probably get a guy they like.

My hunch is with Pacioretty and Eller graduated and the forward core becoming UFA's in 3 years that they want a forward first and foremost...but if Klefblom or Beaulieu slides(potential top pair guys) they could change their plan. Guys like Kristo, LeBlanc, Gallagher, Bournival and MacMillan should be good candidates in 2-4 years. Tinordi plus the current young core of Subban-Weber-Yemelin-Gorges-Diaz? and solid depth guys like Nash Stejksal Pateryn Bennett.

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06-14-2011, 09:24 AM
  #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I can see them having 3-4 guys lined up at 17, if a couple of those guys go early they may be tempted to trade down a couple of picks, say to 14 or 15 to get McNeill or Schefele if those are guys they like...or if it looks like all 3-4 are still there at 17, they could trade down 5-6 picks and add a late 2nd and still probably get a guy they like.

My hunch is with Pacioretty and Eller graduated and the forward core becoming UFA's in 3 years that they want a forward first and foremost...but if Klefblom or Beaulieu slides(potential top pair guys) they could change their plan. Guys like Kristo, LeBlanc, Gallagher, Bournival and MacMillan should be good candidates in 2-4 years. Tinordi plus the current young core of Subban-Weber-Yemelin-Gorges-Diaz? and solid depth guys like Nash Stejksal Pateryn Bennett.
There's too much question marks in the system.. will Kristo or Leblanc become top line scorers? Will Gallagher's size hamper him from being an NHLer? Does MacMillan put on enough strength to become a top line producer? Does Avtsin stay with the organization? Does Trunev ever come over? Does Quailer rebound from his red shirted year?

We need to add a guy with offensive upside. Mark Scheifele, Namestnikov or Niklas Jensen. Swing for the fences.

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06-14-2011, 09:33 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
There's too much question marks in the system.. will Kristo or Leblanc become top line scorers? Will Gallagher's size hamper him from being an NHLer? Does MacMillan put on enough strength to become a top line producer? Does Avtsin stay with the organization? Does Trunev ever come over? Does Quailer rebound from his red shirted year?

We need to add a guy with offensive upside. Mark Scheifele, Namestnikov or Niklas Jensen. Swing for the fences.
I agree with most of what you're saying. In a sense we do have question marks but most of them were "swing for the fences" type picks like Avtsin, Gallagher, MacMillan in mid/later rounds. If one of those 3 ends up as a legit top 6 forward and the other 2 fizzle out we still made out ok...2 of 3 would be great. I think those 3 are pretty much top 6 or bust in the D'agostini/Grabovsky mold. Bournival, LeBlanc and to a lesser extent Kristo are safer bets to contribute in some way. In terms of true 1st line player it's more Eller and Pacioretty than the non-NHLers.

Bartschi and Armia could be lumped in. Jensen I'm not sure if I would risk it at 17. At that point I'd go for McNeill or Miller.

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06-14-2011, 11:09 AM
  #884
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Anyone know anything about Andrew Shaw? Is he still eligible for the 2011 draft? He was initially eligible in 2009 but was limited to 4th line grinder duty.

Here is what Brock had to say about him in 2009 :

39. Andrew Shaw - Forward - Niagara IceDogs
I'm not going to lie, this kid is one of my favourite players in the OHL. He's a treat to watch. He'll drop the gloves with anyone and is completely fearless. He hits hard, he gets under the skin of opposing players, he skates well and hard, and he's not that undersized at pushing 6'0. He played on the 4th line for most of the year, but anytime he was asked to take an increased role, he took full advantage of it, especially in the playoffs. But I absolutely feel that this kid's offensive skills and potential are a lot higher than the point totals he put up this year. He drives to the net with the puck on his stick and uses his body to protect it. He also works the cycle well and is actually a very good playmaker. If he didn't spend most of the season with guys on the 4th with no hands, he might have been able to double his assist total. I see a lot of potential in this kid as a pest with offensive flare. Another point in his favor is that he's one of the youngest players eligible for this draft and only played his first season in the OHL from Tier 2. He's going to get stronger and better at the game he likes to play.

Since 2009, he has improved every season and was great at the Memorial Cup. Should we spend a late pick on this guy? Should we sign him if he goes endrafted again?

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06-14-2011, 11:12 AM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I agree with most of what you're saying. In a sense we do have question marks but most of them were "swing for the fences" type picks like Avtsin, Gallagher, MacMillan in mid/later rounds. If one of those 3 ends up as a legit top 6 forward and the other 2 fizzle out we still made out ok...2 of 3 would be great. I think those 3 are pretty much top 6 or bust in the D'agostini/Grabovsky mold. Bournival, LeBlanc and to a lesser extent Kristo are safer bets to contribute in some way. In terms of true 1st line player it's more Eller and Pacioretty than the non-NHLers.

Bartschi and Armia could be lumped in. Jensen I'm not sure if I would risk it at 17. At that point I'd go for McNeill or Miller.
I don't see Bartschi or Armia being there. I am concerned about Bartschi where he is a bit undersized and played on a powerhouse Portland Winterhawk team.

MacNeill is another safe pick, he is going to be a player. I liked him earlier but the more I get into him, the less and less I want him. I won't complain if we pick him or JT Miller. I just think both are more, we hope they have offensive upside, rather then them having a potential high upside.

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06-14-2011, 11:21 AM
  #886
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Didn't that Grant Mcagg guy that knows Timmins say Trevor was probably not even going to consider Mcneil in the first round and talked to another teams scout that said Mcneil is not a 1st round pick in his books. I wonder how many people are going to riot if we pass on him.

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06-14-2011, 11:29 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Didn't that Grant Mcagg guy that knows Timmins say Trevor was probably not even going to consider Mcneil in the first round and talked to another teams scout that said Mcneil is not a 1st round pick in his books. I wonder how many people are going to riot if we pass on him.
If McNeill is still on the board at 17 and we skip him....it's going to take a loooong time to convince me that was a good decision

Although if McNeill does drop that far, it means other teams are seeing red flags in him that the rest of us aren't aware of.

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06-14-2011, 11:38 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
If McNeill is still on the board at 17 and we skip him....it's going to take a loooong time to convince me that was a good decision

Although if McNeill does drop that far, it means other teams are seeing red flags in him that the rest of us aren't aware of.
There's always a concern with players in junior who put up points because they are physically stronger then everyone else. McNeill might be that guy. If he doesn't have the tools to put up points against guys strong or stronger then him, of course he is going to drop.

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06-14-2011, 11:45 AM
  #889
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
If McNeill is still on the board at 17 and we skip him....it's going to take a loooong time to convince me that was a good decision

Although if McNeill does drop that far, it means other teams are seeing red flags in him that the rest of us aren't aware of.
McNeill apparently was on a lot of scouts DND list.

I dont know the reasoning... But I have heard it was because he developed and worked out, where most kids havent ever done a work out regimen like McNeill has.

Scouts feel that it prematurely brought his game out, leaving little left for upside.

Again... only speculation from what I understand about McNeill, who I WAS interested in at one point.

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06-14-2011, 12:29 PM
  #890
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Anybody know why Armia has dropped so much in the rankings recently? Its not like there's been a lot of hockey played in the last little while, so what affected his drop in the standings? Nobody seems to want him with the habs pick...seems like he could be a good one.

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06-14-2011, 12:48 PM
  #891
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Anybody know why Armia has dropped so much in the rankings recently? Its not like there's been a lot of hockey played in the last little while, so what affected his drop in the standings? Nobody seems to want him with the habs pick...seems like he could be a good one.
He's pretty one-dimensional - has a great shot and good vision but not a whole lot else. Big body but isn't physical. He started off the year on fire but cooled off, and didn't help his case with 1 assist in 6 games at the WJC's. I don't think so many people are down on him, it's just that the hype on him going into the year was monstrous and his ranking adjusted downward to reflect his caliber more accurately.

Personally I think he'll be snapped up by the Rangers or the Sabres, the two teams right before us.

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06-14-2011, 12:49 PM
  #892
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I don't see Bartschi or Armia being there. I am concerned about Bartschi where he is a bit undersized and played on a powerhouse Portland Winterhawk team.

MacNeill is another safe pick, he is going to be a player. I liked him earlier but the more I get into him, the less and less I want him. I won't complain if we pick him or JT Miller. I just think both are more, we hope they have offensive upside, rather then them having a potential high upside.
Red Line has McNeill at #16 and has him compared to Brandon Dubinky "2nd line scoring center for mid tier club". Miller at #9 and compared to Erik Cole "strong 2nd liner for a cup contender".

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06-14-2011, 12:50 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Red Line has McNeill at #16 and has him compared to Brandon Dubinky "2nd line scoring center for mid tier club". Miller at #9 and compared to Erik Cole "strong 2nd liner for a cup contender".
Yeah 20 g.. 50 pt players at their highest value. It's nice, but I like to swing for the fences. If not, trade down, try to scoop up a guy like that and take a gamble on a guy in the 2nd round.

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06-14-2011, 01:14 PM
  #894
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Yeah 20 g.. 50 pt players at their highest value. It's nice, but I like to swing for the fences. If not, trade down, try to scoop up a guy like that and take a gamble on a guy in the 2nd round.
There are times to swing for the fences and times were you take the "double" and run. Part of that internal discussion will probably depend on how much upside they see in the guys we are discussing. For example if they see Miller as a surefire 60 point guy who is strong in the corners and plays with an edge(Morrow/Dustin Brown) and the "swing for the fences" guy is a 70 point guy(Armia/Jensen/Jurco?) with 50% bust potential then the choice is obvious.

That's where some folks are missing out on LeBlanc, most guys drafted after him that had more skill may have had potential for 10 more points but were not as complete as him. The Habs(and most experts) see him as a top 6 guy that can also play on PK and provide a physical/compete side to his game.

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06-14-2011, 01:25 PM
  #895
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There are times to swing for the fences and times were you take the "double" and run. Part of that internal discussion will probably depend on how much upside they see in the guys we are discussing. For example if they see Miller as a surefire 60 point guy who is strong in the corners and plays with an edge(Morrow/Dustin Brown) and the "swing for the fences" guy is a 70 point guy(Armia/Jensen/Jurco?) with 50% bust potential then the choice is obvious.

That's where some folks are missing out on LeBlanc, most guys drafted after him that had more skill may have had potential for 10 more points but were not as complete as him. The Habs(and most experts) see him as a top 6 guy that can also play on PK and provide a physical/compete side to his game.
The other thing people are missing on Leblanc is how the guys taken after him really aren't doing much better offensively on average. Josefsson and Johansson have made the NHL but aren't lighting it up. Kreider looks good but doesn't produce much in the NCAA. In the AHL only Palmeiri is excelling, with Caron and Schroeder putting up middling numbers. Finally, Ashton is doing similarly in W to Leblanc, while Holland put up better numbers but didn't crack team Canada like Leblanc and Ashton did.

All the guys playing at a higher level than him also have a developemental year on Leblanc, which tends to obscure the issue in the first few years after the draft.

At this point, the 2009 draft doesn't have a standout forward from the later part of the 1st round.

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06-14-2011, 01:30 PM
  #896
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Yeah 20 g.. 50 pt players at their highest value. It's nice, but I like to swing for the fences. If not, trade down, try to scoop up a guy like that and take a gamble on a guy in the 2nd round.
That's not much different from what Eller projects to be and if they can find a Eller level player at 17 I'd be quite happy with the pick. Most drafts don't have a Giroux caliber guy sitting there in the first round. Swinging for the fences the best you could reasonably hope for is an Eberle.

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06-14-2011, 01:34 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The other thing people are missing on Leblanc is how the guys taken after him really aren't doing much better offensively on average. Josefsson and Johansson have made the NHL but aren't lighting it up. Kreider looks good but doesn't produce much in the NCAA. In the AHL only Palmeiri is excelling, with Caron and Schroeder putting up middling numbers. Finally, Ashton is doing similarly in W to Leblanc, while Holland put up better numbers but didn't crack team Canada like Leblanc and Ashton did.

All the guys playing at a higher level than him also have a developemental year on Leblanc, which tends to obscure the issue in the first few years after the draft.

At this point, the 2009 draft doesn't have a standout forward from the later part of the 1st round.
Josefsson is doing so much better than Leblanc, I hope you are joking.

I still think Werek's going to be a better player. There's a lot of others I'd probably take instead of Leblanc right now in hindsight.

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06-14-2011, 01:45 PM
  #898
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Josefsson is doing so much better than Leblanc, I hope you are joking.

I still think Werek's going to be a better player. There's a lot of others I'd probably take instead of Leblanc right now in hindsight.
Give Leblanc another year or two..I think you'll be surprised at how good he can become. He's got to get stronger, but he's got a lot of hockey smarts, has some decent skills and the balls to go in the corners and to the front of the net. His developement has been strange to say the least. Next year will be his 4th league in 4 years...

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06-14-2011, 01:49 PM
  #899
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Give Leblanc another year or two..I think you'll be surprised at how good he can become.
Not saying he's bad. Why is it that the idea that some other players are better mean that Leblanc has become a marginal prospect?

Anyone remember what they said about 2009? The best since 2003? It's quite possible we picked a good player amongst great ones. Big deal.

I wouldn't have picked Leblanc at our pick, but I don't see it as a bad one. HOWEVER, the cutting your eyes out mentality deserves some putting into place. He's not looking like a great pick if you consider what has happened since, it doesn't mean he won't be better than all of them, but there's quite a few players that deserve more attention at the moment than Leblanc does. And I'm not just talking 1st and 2nd round.

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06-14-2011, 01:55 PM
  #900
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Josefsson is doing so much better than Leblanc, I hope you are joking.

I still think Werek's going to be a better player. There's a lot of others I'd probably take instead of Leblanc right now in hindsight.
How is 12 points in 18 AHL games and 10 points in 28 NHL games "so much better"?

Werek is doing so well taht he was recently traded for a guy drafted later than him(57th overall) in Lindberg.

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