A 60 pt RFA winger, Gunnarson, and a late 1st dont accelerate the rebuild?
Their is one player with legit star potential int he whole league who might be available for 5th overall: Bogosian. Thats it. If the rumours has some legs, its going to be a trade similar to what I posted.
I used singular, as in one significant young player that will be able to contribute immediately, while fitting in with the youth movement.
MacArthur, Gunnarsson, and a late 1st are all nice pieces with value, but we all know that the Leafs would be able to continue their retool without them as they aren't really what you call core pieces, and I think the Isles will be wanting someone that fits the core player definition.
Similarly, would you accept Antoine Vermette (who is much more proven than MacArthur), Kris Russel, and a late 1st for Nazem Kadri? There is value to that package, but how would it help us?
I used singular, as in one significant young player that will be able to contribute immediately, while fitting in with the youth movement.
MacArthur, Gunnarsson, and a late 1st are all nice pieces with value, but we all know that the Leafs would be able to continue their retool without them as they aren't really what you call core pieces, and I think the Isles will be wanting someone that fits the core player definition.
Similarly, would you accept Antoine Vermette (who is much more proven than MacArthur), Kris Russel, and a late 1st for Nazem Kadri? There is value to that package, but how would it help us?
Who is going to give up a core player for the #5 in this draft?
I used singular, as in one significant young player that will be able to contribute immediately, while fitting in with the youth movement.
MacArthur, Gunnarsson, and a late 1st are all nice pieces with value, but we all know that the Leafs would be able to continue their retool without them as they aren't really what you call core pieces, and I think the Isles will be wanting someone that fits the core player definition.
Similarly, would you accept Antoine Vermette (who is much more proven than MacArthur), Kris Russel, and a late 1st for Nazem Kadri? There is value to that package, but how would it help us?
I wouldnt. But I was posting under the conditions in the thread on the trade board (young talent still controllable able to help the Isles make the playoffs this season).
No team will trade a bluechipper, with the exception of Bogo i think, (and it remains to be seen his thoughts on Winnipeg) for the 5th overall. So that leaves the Isles with a deal similar to what I offered.
I'm not here to give a bad trade proposal here. promise. I'm having an argument with a Leaf fan that it's better for Kadri to play in the AHL if he's not in the top 6 while I think he should start with us on the 3rd line considering how useless it was this year. If he plays well, someone else moves down.
I want to know if Perry and Getzlaf started on the 4th line and moved up as the season went along. Did you think Perry would turn out this good?
And can Lupul be a first line forward depending on his linemates. I know he can't carry a line but does he still have 1st line potential. I thought he was about to break out in 2007/2008 but injuries and defensive play does have its concern.
Thanks.
This is the Anaheim board response.
Perry and Getzlaf played on the 4th line, mostly with Todd Fedoruk, in their first year (05/06). Both saw time in the AHL that year as well, which was a very good thing for them.
The year after (cup year) they played on the 2nd line. However, there were so many great vets on that team that the pressure on them still wasn't that high, not to mention that it's Anaheim. I think the pressure on Kadri would be much higher in a hockey town like Toronto whose top six lacks experience.
As for Lupul, no I don't think he's ever going to be what you call a "true first liner". He could probably work out as a 2nd line player playing on the top line, kind of like Chris Kunitz although they don't play the same kind of game. Lupul has a cannon of a shot and understands the offensive game well. Put him with Ovechkin and Backstrom in Washington and he'd probably put up a fair amount of points.
McDonald was a college free signing that nobody knew would break out like that. Coincidently he hasn't returned that dominance since Selanne wasn't there. Getzlaf wasn't a no.1 centre when they won the cup and McDonald was not a legit top line center. Chris Kunitz is not a top line winger either and now he's just a 50 point forward. He wasn't a sure thing. Selanne was a gamble, that worked well for them kind of like Macarthur. Beauchimen was a throw in, in the Ferderov deal, gamble worked. Call Aulie the same. Marchant was a waiver pickup and Pahlsson, Anaheim fans were wondering whether he should be in the lineup or not. I don't call any of that great supporting pieces that were intentionally left for Burke to build a championship team.
Perry/Getzlaf played on the third line for most of the season while seeing glimpses on the 2nd line in there rookie season. I'm done arguing that, you can go back look at their game logs, TOI etc. You first claim to hear it from Burke to a random poster on the Anaheim boards. Perry/Getzlaf now were benched from time-to-time on the 4th line as rookies then sent down to the AHL briefly.
I personally believe McDonald is a 1.b center. He has supreme playmaking abilities and regardless we have no player like him in our system. Call him a top 6 center at worst the guy has a .72 PPG while putting up solid numbers from a contender to rebuilding team.
Getzlaf/Perry were NHL regulars by the time their first year ended, Kadri isn't. Now I'm not shooting down Kadri's abilities just this ignorant belief that Toronto/Anahiem are in the same position.
I never once mentioned Chris Kunitz being a top-line winger, so I won't even comment.
Selanne is one of the best European players even to play in the NHL. To even put Clarke MacArthur's name in the same sentence is embarassing to all of HF. Having Teemu Selanne on your team is never a "gamble"
Beauchemin was a throw-in the Sergei Fedorov deal. He was a product of guess who? The elite defensemen that you decided not to comment about Scott Niedermayer. Toronto has no defenseman like him in their system.. next.
Todd Marchant. Alot of players go on waivers it doesn't mean there bad in any sense. Look at Dominic Moore for example, Toronto picking him up changed his whole career. Marchant being picked up on waivers doesn't make him any less valuable.
Samuel Pahlsson. Him, Moen and R.Niedermayer become the infamous shutdown line for Anahiem. Pahlsson was a major factor in the Ducks winning the Stanley Cup. Currently the closest thing Toronto has to him is Tim Brent.
Whether these pieces were left intentionally or not Toronto still fails to have an elite winger, top line center, elite defenseman and 3rd line shut down center... So is Kadri coming into the same situation in Toronto? Absolutely not. Toronto could have an elite winger in Kessel, and a elite defensman if Phaneuf ever regains his early form. For now Toronto shouldn't even be mentioned in the same league as the 2006-2007 Ducks
Who is going to give up a core player for the #5 in this draft?
I don't know, I was merely speaking on what I think the Isles would reject if offered to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre
I wouldnt. But I was posting under the conditions in the thread on the trade board (young talent still controllable able to help the Isles make the playoffs this season).
No team will trade a bluechipper, with the exception of Bogo i think, (and it remains to be seen his thoughts on Winnipeg) for the 5th overall. So that leaves the Isles with a deal similar to what I offered.
I haven't looked at that thread, so I didn't know you were under specific guidelines with your proposal, so I would say your package makes more sense under those parameters.
I didn't mean that we would have to give the Isles a blue chipper in return for that pick, just someone who could be considered a bit more of a core player, as in a bit more quality, a bit less quantity. Not that 3 assets in return for 1 is a lot, but if the Leafs were moving out the 5th overall pick, I'd want a pretty significant piece in return, because no matter what draft it is, a top 5 pick is going to give you a great prospect.
Perry/Getzlaf played on the third line for most of the season while seeing glimpses on the 2nd line in there rookie season. I'm done arguing that, you can go back look at their game logs, TOI etc. You first claim to hear it from Burke to a random poster on the Anaheim boards. Perry/Getzlaf now were benched from time-to-time on the 4th line as rookies then sent down to the AHL briefly.
I personally believe McDonald is a 1.b center. He has supreme playmaking abilities and regardless we have no player like him in our system. Call him a top 6 center at worst the guy has a .72 PPG while putting up solid numbers from a contender to rebuilding team.
Getzlaf/Perry were NHL regulars by the time their first year ended, Kadri isn't. Now I'm not shooting down Kadri's abilities just this ignorant belief that Toronto/Anahiem are in the same position.
I never once mentioned Chris Kunitz being a top-line winger, so I won't even comment.
Selanne is one of the best European players even to play in the NHL. To even put Clarke MacArthur's name in the same sentence is embarassing to all of HF. Having Teemu Selanne on your team is never a "gamble"
Beauchemin was a throw-in the Sergei Fedorov deal. He was a product of guess who? The elite defensemen that you decided not to comment about Scott Niedermayer. Toronto has no defenseman like him in their system.. next.
Todd Marchant. Alot of players go on waivers it doesn't mean there bad in any sense. Look at Dominic Moore for example, Toronto picking him up changed his whole career. Marchant being picked up on waivers doesn't make him any less valuable.
Samuel Pahlsson. Him, Moen and R.Niedermayer become the infamous shutdown line for Anahiem. Pahlsson was a major factor in the Ducks winning the Stanley Cup. Currently the closest thing Toronto has to him is Tim Brent.
Whether these pieces were left intentionally or not Toronto still fails to have an elite winger, top line center, elite defenseman and 3rd line shut down center... So is Kadri coming into the same situation in Toronto? Absolutely not. Toronto could have an elite winger in Kessel, and a elite defensman if Phaneuf ever regains his early form. For now Toronto shouldn't even be mentioned in the same league as the 2006-2007 Ducks
yeah, I'm done talking to a guy with facts pointed out that still doesn't get it. Your alot like Mess changing the facts that suits your agenda. whatever.
yeah, I'm done talking to a guy with facts pointed out that still doesn't get it. Your alot like Mess changing the facts that suits your agenda. whatever.
I haven't changed one fact but whatever floats your boat. Posters can go back and look at your ignorance (Selanne = MacA apparently now).
Schenn's entry-level contract was structured as follows:
1) $875k base salary guaranteed every year
2) $2.1 million in earnable bonuses every year
So in each of the last three years the lowest possible amount Schenn could have earned is $875k and the highest possible amount he could have earned is $2.975 million (base + bonuses).
In discussing Schenn's RFA negotiations this summer, I think it would be very interesting to know exactly how much he earned over his ELC. The raise he gets won't necessarily be his new dollar figures minus his old $2.975 million, and when Schenn finally gets signed and the numbers are revealed I think it would be neat to see exactly how big his raise is gonna be.
I don't know, I was merely speaking on what I think the Isles would reject if offered to them.
They aren't really serious about a deal if that's the case. Which is fine, they can't really go wrong with adding another good prospect. But nobody is giving up anything really great for a player that most GMs agree has little chance to be a real star-type in the NHL.
They aren't really serious about a deal if that's the case. Which is fine, they can't really go wrong with adding another good prospect. But nobody is giving up anything really great for a player that most GMs agree has little chance to be a real star-type in the NHL.
We all know Kaberle has always been weak in his own end, but he is really starting to look very out of place on a more defensive team.
The sad part is that you can see Kaberle start to get into a groove, and he is nearly on the brink of getting the chemistry with Boston to make some of his better offensive visionary plays. It will be too late for their run. They should re-sign the guy. I have no interest seeing him back here, but Boston has the defensive support to cover up for him better than the Leafs could.
I used singular, as in one significant young player that will be able to contribute immediately, while fitting in with the youth movement.
MacArthur, Gunnarsson, and a late 1st are all nice pieces with value, but we all know that the Leafs would be able to continue their retool without them as they aren't really what you call core pieces, and I think the Isles will be wanting someone that fits the core player definition.
Similarly, would you accept Antoine Vermette (who is much more proven than MacArthur), Kris Russel, and a late 1st for Nazem Kadri? There is value to that package, but how would it help us?
No chance, Kadri is in my mind the best offensive talent we have in our system, he has the talent to produce 70-80 points when he reaches his potential. He is a blue-chip prospect that, along with Frattin, should come in and contribute next year.
We all know Kaberle has always been weak in his own end, but he is really starting to look very out of place on a more defensive team.
The sad part is that you can see Kaberle start to get into a groove, and he is nearly on the brink of getting the chemistry with Boston to make some of his better offensive visionary plays. It will be too late for their run. They should re-sign the guy. I have no interest seeing him back here, but Boston has the defensive support to cover up for him better than the Leafs could.
I have to disagree Volcan...I've watched him for years and it's quite obvious that he is not very good playing D in his own end. All teams dump to his side because they know he'll shy from the hit. The gamble was always that if the forecheck can't get to him fast enough, he'll beat you with the breakout pass. But since the rule change, there's no one to interfere with forechecking forwards...he's been exposed badly throughout the playoffs. Most Boston fans agree with this and they have only watched him for 2 months.
He is what he is, but a capable defensive player is not what he is.
They aren't really serious about a deal if that's the case. Which is fine, they can't really go wrong with adding another good prospect. But nobody is giving up anything really great for a player that most GMs agree has little chance to be a real star-type in the NHL.
That really doesn't make much sense.
Picking at 5th overall definitely gives a team a chance to draft a kid with star potential. I'm not saying it always turns out that way, but picking the 5th (or so) highest rated draft eligible prospect in the world generally indicates that people believe there is star potential there.
I think Burke should be looking for RFA's that might be asking too for too much from their organizations. The perfect guy that I see is M. Boedker. The guy had such great chemistry with Kadri in junior, and plays right wing. Phoenix might not have the patience for him to develop properly, and could be looking for warm bodies to help them make the playoffs.
So I proposed this on the trade board in an Isles thread
Mac
Gunnar
BOS 1st
for
5th Overall (Isles)
Apparently Snow has made it known the 5th is available for young talent whom will help now (to make the playoffs), yet still remains controllable for some time.
What do you think?
IMO, I don't like the trade from either team's perspective.
I'm guessing the 5th. overall won't be worth the Leafs' package and that the Islanders are after one player not depth.
MacArthur's problem has been consistency, and perhaps he will bring that at the ripe old age of 26.
Gunnarsson will be 25 in November and I think his potential is 2nd. pairing defender and he comes in with a great cap hit. He is going to continue to get better. It was just his 2nd. year so he doesn't have huge miles on him.
1st. rounder is in the Biggs/Miller/Jurco ... range.
I'd speculate the Islanders would be looking for 1 player but I'm not sure the Flyers would want to deal with them within Division.
However, they have trade history with the Senators.
How would you like to be the Senators and have 2 picks in the top 6.
So just throwing poop.
Spezza for 5th. overall.
5th. and 6th. to Oilers
1st. overall to Senators
Would you rather have 1st. overall or 5th. and 6th.?
I think Burke should be looking for RFA's that might be asking too for too much from their organizations. The perfect guy that I see is M. Boedker. The guy had such great chemistry with Kadri in junior, and plays right wing. Phoenix might not have the patience for him to develop properly, and could be looking for warm bodies to help them make the playoffs.
How about:
To Phoenix:
Rights to MacArthur
39th overall pick
To Toronto:
Rights to Boedker
20th overall pick
Fair or not?
I think we'd have to add something to that.
I dont think MacArthur has sufficient trade value to pull that off, espesially since we'd be moving up 19 spots in the draft.
That said, it looks like something I'd support if it could be worked out. I like Boedker, and like you said, he's shown chemistry with Kadri. Plus with 20th, 25th, and 29th/30th we could easily package any two of them to move up.
I have to disagree Volcan...I've watched him for years and it's quite obvious that he is not very good playing D in his own end. All teams dump to his side because they know he'll shy from the hit. The gamble was always that if the forecheck can't get to him fast enough, he'll beat you with the breakout pass. But since the rule change, there's no one to interfere with forechecking forwards...he's been exposed badly throughout the playoffs. Most Boston fans agree with this and they have only watched him for 2 months.
He is what he is, but a capable defensive player is not what he is.
Actually, he isn't very physical in his own zone, but he can play good defense in his own zone.
I've watched him these playoffs and he's partnered with a partner with 86 NHL games under his belt.
Kaberle's strength in his own zone is moving the puck, but his partner is a black hole and has suicided Kaberle a few times with horrible passes (bouncing/right along the boards, off the boards) while Kaberle is under forecheck.
Perhaps Kaberle is being used there because McQuaid is so inexperienced.
I think Burke should be looking for RFA's that might be asking too for too much from their organizations. The perfect guy that I see is M. Boedker. The guy had such great chemistry with Kadri in junior, and plays right wing. Phoenix might not have the patience for him to develop properly, and could be looking for warm bodies to help them make the playoffs.
How about:
To Phoenix:
Rights to MacArthur
39th overall pick
To Toronto:
Rights to Boedker
20th overall pick
Fair or not?
So Toronto gives up a 2nd and a one-hit wonder (for now) for a 21 year old future top 6er and a top 20 pick? No, not fair.
Would have to at least include a top prospect to begin entering the realm of fair.
I think Burke should be looking for RFA's that might be asking too for too much from their organizations. The perfect guy that I see is M. Boedker. The guy had such great chemistry with Kadri in junior, and plays right wing. Phoenix might not have the patience for him to develop properly, and could be looking for warm bodies to help them make the playoffs.
Meehan is a very good agent and I can see trouble on the horizon with signing MacArthur if Meehan is holding out for a lucrutive payout. Can't blame him for this, but with Burke it may test his patience and he will deal MacAthur before being held hostage. What we do know is at the trade deadline last year, Dreger reported there was significant interest in Mac. Offseason gets more interesting by the min.
you're so ridiculous.
