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Yet another Carter....Cbj/PHI

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Old
05-31-2011, 01:53 PM
  #51
phlocky
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Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
The PLUS that I'd want back would be Hartnell (if he waived his NMC). We'd have a top pairing Dman and another top 6 power forward. Our team needs needs to win now. Voracek needs more time to mature and we have an awful record of drafting/development so parting with the #6 overall and a good prospect isn't the end of the world.
So Hartnell + Meszaros for Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year? Sign me up. I still think we'd have to add. I think that to even it out we'd have to expand it to include our 1st next year and for you to include either a 2nd or 3rd next year. That would probably make it more fair.


Let me just post what I think the Flyers lineup would/should be with this trade and see where we are cap wise:

Versteeg - Richards - Nodl (9.7 mil)
Leino - Carter - Briere (14.8 mil)
JVR - Giroux - Voracek (7.0 mil)
Sheely - Betts - Powe (2.6 mil)

Carle - Pronger (8.3 mil)
Timonen - Coburn (9.5 mil)
O'Donnell - Golobeuf/Gustafsson (1.9 mil)

Bobrovski (1.7 mil)

55.5 mil total. If the cap goes up to 62 mil as expected that's about 6.5 mil for a #1 goalie + 13th forward + 7th dman + injury call-ups. That's close but doable.


Edit : With Voracek in the lineup I'd be fine with letting Leion walk, replacing him with Wellwood, and using that 2.5 mil in cap difference between what I have slated for Leino and Wellwood to either upgrade on defense or to just save in case we needed more cap space for Bryz/Vokoun.

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05-31-2011, 02:10 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
So Hartnell + Meszaros for Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year? Sign me up. I still think we'd have to add. I think that to even it out we'd have to expand it to include our 1st next year and for you to include either a 2nd or 3rd next year. That would probably make it more fair.
I'm good with this. Any Flyers/Jacket fans want to comment?

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05-31-2011, 02:16 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
So Hartnell + Meszaros for Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year? Sign me up. I still think we'd have to add. I think that to even it out we'd have to expand it to include our 1st next year and for you to include either a 2nd or 3rd next year. That would probably make it more fair.
Oh man... all I can say is I would definetly not do that deal. In fact I think so little of Hartnell and Meszaros(as a Sens fan I had the displeasure of seeing for several years) that I would demand one of JVR or Giroux. Obviously I wouldn't expect that to happen, those guys are going to be first liners for a long time. Meszaros and Hartnell are overpaid complimentary pieces, and with Carle the last players on Philadelphia I would want.

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05-31-2011, 02:32 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
I'm good with this. Any Flyers/Jacket fans want to comment?


...

I will let Michael Scott make my comment for me:



Three quality assets for two middle-of-the-road guys? No thanks! Frankly the only reason I'm willing to tolerate the addition of Carle to our team in any proposal is that if he manages to screw up here, we only have to live with it for a year. With Meszaros, we have three years to regret.

Any deal that has us giving up Voracek and getting Hartnell back is a ****ing travesty. You cannot make that deal reasonable. At all. Not unless we're getting top-pairing defensemen back and NOT ADDING.

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05-31-2011, 02:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
JVR - Giroux - Voracek (7.0 mil)
*drool*

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Old
05-31-2011, 03:06 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
I'm good with this. Any Flyers/Jacket fans want to comment?
Didn't really want to comment, but since you asked, the easiest and nicest answer is: lol no. I mean that is just terrible value for Voracek and the 8th pick. For starters you aren't getting a top pairing defender in the deal, and you aren't get a top line center. Your not going to convince me either that he is a top pairing defender when he sucked balls in Tampa. Sure he can be good when he is playing with one of the best D cores in the game, but he has shown he is not a capable defensive leader in the past. So the verdict from me is: lol no.

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05-31-2011, 03:10 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post


...

I will let Michael Scott make my comment for me:




That is about my reaction when I saw this too, to be honest.

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Old
05-31-2011, 03:11 PM
  #58
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Carter and Nash would not be a very good duo.

They would both want to shoot all the time.

Briere would be a better fit for Columbus, BUT Carter is the more attractive asset considering age, cap hit, etc.

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05-31-2011, 03:28 PM
  #59
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I'm good with this. Any Flyers/Jacket fans want to comment?
Ugh. No.

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Old
05-31-2011, 04:27 PM
  #60
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I asked for this trade about a month ago to mixed reviews. Now Flyer fans want to accept this trade. My how quickly HF turns around...

I still prefer Savard over Goloubef, but I'll settle for this deal.

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Old
05-31-2011, 04:44 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
I'm good with this. Any Flyers/Jacket fans want to comment?
Why trade a wing for a wing? Meszaros is not worth the 8th overall pick in any draft and then throw in one of our top three D prospects to boot? Sorry man....that's pretty out there.

I like Meszaros and I'm sure I proposed something for him at one point. I know the cap is expected to go up but Philly is getting tight against it and with guys like JVR needing new deals and the fact they haven't had a goalie since Hextall they would likely be willing to move some of these guys for a little lower value.

I'd have to pass on this deal in a pretty big way. Like the players but they really don't address what Columbus needs and now we're without our two most likely trading chips to address our needs.

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Old
05-31-2011, 07:45 PM
  #62
Whaley Klesla 97
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Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
I'm good with this. Any Flyers/Jacket fans want to comment?
CBJBob that is awful. Mez was always decent and had a really good season. Scott Hartnell is good but he DOES NOT make us a better team. If Howson made this deal id be calling Doug Maclean to see if he wants his job back.


CBJ fans youre missing the point that this team MUST win now. Mcconnell is not his old man and will sell/move this team if they continue to lose 25 mil a season. The proposal I put makes sense for both of us. We have NEVER had another big scoring threat like Carter. Someone brought up long contracts for berard, foote and federov.....whats the difference between carter and those guys? They were all over the hill and Carter is in his prime.

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05-31-2011, 08:08 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Whaley Klesla 97 View Post
To Columbus: Jeff Carter

To Philadelphia: Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year.


Columbus gets Nashs center, and Philly gets a potential 1st line winger, a big defensive prospect and their choice with the 8th pick. Also Philly would clear cap space to get Bryzgalov or Nabokov.
Out of all the millions of Carter proposals currently on the first few pages of this board, this one of those rare offers which is fair for both sides.

Some Flyers fans want way too much for Carter, and fans of other teams seem to be forgetting that Carter is right in his prime, has a reasonable cap hit, and has 47, 33, and 36 goals the last three seasons.

Excellent proposal.

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Old
05-31-2011, 08:21 PM
  #64
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If Columbus fans want Carle in the deal as well, as long as we're shedding a bit more salary i'm sure we could work something out.

Might actually be decent trading partners.

As for people saying Nash needs a playmaking center, Carter has played well with big-strong wingers before. I highly doubt Nash/Carter would disappoint.

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05-31-2011, 08:25 PM
  #65
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Well, after the request for comments, the followup Meszaros/Hartnell proposal is 0-for-6 thank G-d so perhaps now we can table it. Forever.

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05-31-2011, 09:58 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Well, after the request for comments, the followup Meszaros/Hartnell proposal is 0-for-6 thank G-d so perhaps now we can table it. Forever.
Oh well I tried but I respect the majority. I do watch the Orange and Black alot. Mezsaros can move the puck and chews up a ton of minutes. Hartnell can be a bum but he can also be tough to go up against. Jake fusterated me very much this year and especially down the stretch. I'm not high on Golobeuf. His progess has slowed since his Freshman year at Wisconsin. The 8th pick in this years draft reminds me very much of 2004 when we picked Alexander Picard.

Carter just signed a long term deal and I doubt Holmgren turns around and deals him. Also his contract goes out to 2022 and I doubt the Jackets Mgt would commit to this but I would.

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05-31-2011, 10:08 PM
  #67
Nikita Filatov
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To Columbus: Jeff Carter, Matt Carle

To Philadelphia: Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year, Maxim Mayorov, 2nd round pick.

Columbus gives up a TON of potential in this trade, but "potential" hasn't worked the past ten seasons so a trade to win now would be in order. I propose Mayorov and our second this year as well for Carle, Mayorov is still a good prospect, and could use a change of scenery and could potentially see time next year as a callup. The point is still for additional cap space to replace Carle and get the goalie needed.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Kristian Huselius ($4.750m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
R.J. Umberger ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Ryan Johansen ($1.945m)
Matt Calvert ($0.891m) / Samuel Pahlsson ($2.650m) / Antoine Vermette ($3.750m)
Derek Dorsett ($0.562m) / Derek MacKenzie ($0.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)
/ / Jared Boll ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Joni Pitkanen ($4.300m) / Fedor Tyutin ($2.843m)
Marc Methot ($1.012m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Grant Clitsome ($0.900m) / Kris Russell ($1.300m)
/ Nick Holden ($0.941m)

GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($2.900m) / Johan Hedberg ($1.250m)

BUYOUTS: Duvie Westcott ($0.616m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,348,976; BONUSES: $1,237,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,051,024

Mix the forward lines or d pairings up, but I think this team would have the depth necessary to compete. The first line we've seen produce before, since Huselius would be difficult to trade away anyways. I'd like seeing a Umberger-Carter duo, and then put Vermette or Johansen in between or on the wing in there as well. Or even give Calvert or Filatov a chance too. Pitkanen could be a good fit here, but as a defensive corps would still probably be considered middle of the pack at best, with no elite defenseman still. I would love this trade as a whole, and it would give Philadelphia a lot more future at the same time.


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05-31-2011, 10:33 PM
  #68
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
To Columbus: Jeff Carter, Matt Carle

To Philadelphia: Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year, Maxim Mayorov, 2nd round pick.

Columbus gives up a TON of potential in this trade, but "potential" hasn't worked the past ten seasons so a trade to win now would be in order. I propose Mayorov and our second this year as well for Carle, Mayorov is still a good prospect, and could use a change of scenery and could potentially see time next year as a callup. The point is still for additional cap space to replace Carle and get the goalie needed.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Kristian Huselius ($4.750m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
R.J. Umberger ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Ryan Johansen ($1.945m)
Matt Calvert ($0.891m) / Samuel Pahlsson ($2.650m) / Antoine Vermette ($3.750m)
Derek Dorsett ($0.562m) / Derek MacKenzie ($0.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)
/ / Jared Boll ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Joni Pitkanen ($4.300m) / Fedor Tyutin ($2.843m)
Marc Methot ($1.012m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Grant Clitsome ($0.900m) / Kris Russell ($1.300m)
/ Nick Holden ($0.941m)

GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($2.900m) / Johan Hedberg ($1.250m)

BUYOUTS: Duvie Westcott ($0.616m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,348,976; BONUSES: $1,237,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,051,024

Mix the forward lines or d pairings up, but I think this team would have the depth necessary to compete. The first line we've seen produce before, since Huselius would be difficult to trade away anyways. I'd like seeing a Umberger-Carter duo, and then put Vermette or Johansen in between or on the wing in there as well. Or even give Calvert or Filatov a chance too. Pitkanen could be a good fit here, but as a defensive corps would still probably be considered middle of the pack at best, with no elite defenseman still. I would love this trade as a whole, and it would give Philadelphia a lot more future at the same time.

Pitkanen wouldn't sign for that little; he's out to "test the market", which means more than a $300k raise. Also, I am morally opposed to any lineup that has Vermette on the wing on the grounds that, like RJ at center ice, it's a step down for him.

Any scenario in which we trade for Carter basically means we have to find a taker for Pahlsson.

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05-31-2011, 10:37 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
To Columbus: Jeff Carter, Matt Carle

To Philadelphia: Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year, Maxim Mayorov, 2nd round pick.
Done.

Versteeg - Richards - Voracek
Hartnell - Briere - Cole/Jokinen
JVR - Giroux - Nodl
Shelly - Betts - Thoresen

Meszaros- Pronger
Timonen - Coburn
Gustafsson - Bartulis

Bobrovski (1.7 mil)


I think the Flyers go after Erik Cole/Jussi Jokinen and Patrick Thoresen. They might also try to have two scoring lines, traditional third line and a checking line instead of three scoring lines...

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Old
06-01-2011, 01:46 AM
  #70
wahsnairb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
To Columbus: Jeff Carter, Matt Carle

To Philadelphia: Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year, Maxim Mayorov, 2nd round pick.

Columbus gives up a TON of potential in this trade, but "potential" hasn't worked the past ten seasons so a trade to win now would be in order. I propose Mayorov and our second this year as well for Carle, Mayorov is still a good prospect, and could use a change of scenery and could potentially see time next year as a callup. The point is still for additional cap space to replace Carle and get the goalie needed.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Kristian Huselius ($4.750m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
R.J. Umberger ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m) / Ryan Johansen ($1.945m)
Matt Calvert ($0.891m) / Samuel Pahlsson ($2.650m) / Antoine Vermette ($3.750m)
Derek Dorsett ($0.562m) / Derek MacKenzie ($0.600m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)
/ / Jared Boll ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Joni Pitkanen ($4.300m) / Fedor Tyutin ($2.843m)
Marc Methot ($1.012m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Grant Clitsome ($0.900m) / Kris Russell ($1.300m)
/ Nick Holden ($0.941m)

GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($2.900m) / Johan Hedberg ($1.250m)

BUYOUTS: Duvie Westcott ($0.616m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,348,976; BONUSES: $1,237,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,051,024

Mix the forward lines or d pairings up, but I think this team would have the depth necessary to compete. The first line we've seen produce before, since Huselius would be difficult to trade away anyways. I'd like seeing a Umberger-Carter duo, and then put Vermette or Johansen in between or on the wing in there as well. Or even give Calvert or Filatov a chance too. Pitkanen could be a good fit here, but as a defensive corps would still probably be considered middle of the pack at best, with no elite defenseman still. I would love this trade as a whole, and it would give Philadelphia a lot more future at the same time.

This is why I think centers would have to be moved elsewhere if Ryan makes the big club next season. Can't have some of those names on the wing just because we would be so center heavy.

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Old
06-01-2011, 07:47 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaley Klesla 97 View Post
To Columbus: Jeff Carter

To Philadelphia: Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year.


Columbus gets Nashs center, and Philly gets a potential 1st line winger, a big defensive prospect and their choice with the 8th pick. Also Philly would clear cap space to get Bryzgalov or Nabokov.

Overpayment by Columbus

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06-09-2011, 05:11 PM
  #72
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starting to sound like I might have been pretty close if it goes down

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06-09-2011, 08:30 PM
  #73
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...

I will let Michael Scott make my comment for me:



Three quality assets for two middle-of-the-road guys? No thanks! Frankly the only reason I'm willing to tolerate the addition of Carle to our team in any proposal is that if he manages to screw up here, we only have to live with it for a year. With Meszaros, we have three years to regret.

Any deal that has us giving up Voracek and getting Hartnell back is a ****ing travesty. You cannot make that deal reasonable. At all. Not unless we're getting top-pairing defensemen back and NOT ADDING.

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06-09-2011, 11:57 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaley Klesla 97 View Post
To Columbus: Jeff Carter

To Philadelphia: Jakub Voracek, Cody Golobeuf, 8th overall pick this year.


Columbus gets Nashs center, and Philly gets a potential 1st line winger, a big defensive prospect and their choice with the 8th pick. Also Philly would clear cap space to get Bryzgalov or Nabokov.
If this trade so without Goloubef. IMO he has better potential than Moore and Savard only he has not full him yet. His trade would be a great mistake. Cody has great skating and his hokcey sense is very good. He must improve his confidence and defensive play. But his DP is better than Moores DP.

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06-10-2011, 09:26 AM
  #75
Viqsi
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
If this trade so without Goloubef. IMO he has better potential than Moore and Savard only he has not full him yet. His trade would be a great mistake. Cody has great skating and his hokcey sense is very good. He must improve his confidence and defensive play. But his DP is better than Moores DP.
I'd accept it only if Carle is coming back as well, personally. Futures-for-current always involves dome degree of downgrade, and I have hopes that Carle+Methot could prove an effective second pairing.

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