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Old
03-07-2013, 09:50 PM
  #601
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Do you have to build industrial at all in this game? I'm regretting building industrial.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:51 PM
  #602
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So apparently the region on NA East 2 is broken. I've had other users confirm this is happening as well. (You get a memory allocation error when you try to play).

I have opened a new game on NA east 2 and invited you all.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:52 PM
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
The problem is that under the way SimCity is released it should be a free-to-play game.

If they were serious about making it a multiplayer game it should have been treated like an MMO and stress tested like crazy.

Since it's EA i'm not that shocked, but because of the ridiculous Diablo 3 launch I had figured EA would try to avoid that... looks like they didn't even take a first step.
I don't think it should have been F2P, I have no problem with them asking us to pay, because companies have to make money, and that's cool. Just make sure your product works fine.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:53 PM
  #604
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How about enabling an offline sandbox mode? Or is EA too worried that the multiplayer-as-a-cover-for-DRM model won't stand on its own with such a mode?

Do you think this reflects well on EA?

Can you comprehend the damage being done right now?
From what I understand, there's simulation done on the server side, so having an offline mode that doesn't kill lower end PC's is a long shot. Personally, I think the game was built from the ground up to be a multiplayer-first game that can run on a wide array of computer hardware. As anti-consumer as it is (really, i'm not a fan of it either), the DRM aspect of the always-online is an added "benefit" (from a business/anti-piracy standpoint) that the multiplayer-first approach brings.

This looks awful for EA, it's truly a cluster**** and it's all anybody has been talking about throughout the company. Quite frankly, it's an embarrassment and it's going to be used as a shining example of what not to do at launch. We have teams that are supposed to test this stuff and have plans in place to make sure this cluster**** doesn't happen, however there were a number of big time ****-ups along the way and i'm sure people are going to lose their jobs over it.

In all honesty though, the company as a whole really does care about all this. It wasn't planned and wasn't some contrived plot to run away with people's money. People ****ed up and they didn't realize it until way too late (as in weeks before Final). Lots of people (including myself, who has nothing to do with Maxis) are working really hard at trying to fix this and get people to play the game. From a developers standpoint, I can tell you that this really sucks for anybody that worked on this game to see. Nobody wants to see pissed off customers and people upset with something they put years of their lives into. There's a very good game underneath all of this mess, and I really hope people get a chance to enjoy it as it was meant to be played.

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03-07-2013, 09:53 PM
  #605
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So I haven't been able to play since release night.

Nice.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:58 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
I don't think it should have been F2P, I have no problem with them asking us to pay, because companies have to make money, and that's cool. Just make sure your product works fine.
Free to play can make CRAZY money... see LOL.

I'd also mention that all this DRM nonsense about piracy is nothing.

Just wait until the DLC and micro-transactions start flowing through SimCity... Can already be seen by game-altering day 1 DLC in SimCity for $20+... (edit: and BTW if you want to play with friends you need to have that same DLC...)

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03-07-2013, 10:02 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
From what I understand, there's simulation done on the server side, so having an offline mode that doesn't kill lower end PC's is a long shot. Personally, I think the game was built from the ground up to be a multiplayer-first game that can run on a wide array of computer hardware. As anti-consumer as it is (really, i'm not a fan of it either), the DRM aspect of the always-online is an added "benefit" (from a business/anti-piracy standpoint) that the multiplayer-first approach brings.

This looks awful for EA, it's truly a cluster**** and it's all anybody has been talking about throughout the company. Quite frankly, it's an embarrassment and it's going to be used as a shining example of what not to do at launch. We have teams that are supposed to test this stuff and have plans in place to make sure this cluster**** doesn't happen, however there were a number of big time ****-ups along the way and i'm sure people are going to lose their jobs over it.

In all honesty though, the company as a whole really does care about all this. It wasn't planned and wasn't some contrived plot to run away with people's money. People ****ed up and they didn't realize it until way too late (as in weeks before Final). Lots of people (including myself, who has nothing to do with Maxis) are working really hard at trying to fix this and get people to play the game. From a developers standpoint, I can tell you that this really sucks for anybody that worked on this game to see. Nobody wants to see pissed off customers and people upset with something they put years of their lives into. There's a very good game underneath all of this mess, and I really hope people get a chance to enjoy it as it was meant to be played.
We don't blame you DFG. I work for a massive corporation too so I know how it feels to work hard to have customers up in arms when all you're trying to do is help.

Corporate decisions caused this, not the employees.

(EDIT: Also: tell them to make the map size bigger. )

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03-07-2013, 10:47 PM
  #608
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Is it reasonable of me to think that due to all the backlash they eventually patch the game as were can we can play it single player, I know I know it's EA...But would that be a possibility or is it way too complicated to implement.

I mean I'd insta buy the game if they remove the DRM but in this case there's no chance in hell.

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03-08-2013, 12:04 AM
  #609
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I wouldn't get your hopes up, at least not until they reach the inevitable point of not wanting to support it anymore server-side.

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03-08-2013, 12:26 AM
  #610
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So according to canyourunit I cannot run this game. I have way above in everything but my video card, not surprising.

I've got a 2 1/2 year old Toshiba Satellite A665 laptop. How difficult/expensive would it be to just upgrade my video card? I love my laptop, and am not in the market for a PC.

Also...thinking about just getting 4. I loved SimCity 4. So so much.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:05 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
I wouldn't get your hopes up, at least not until they reach the inevitable point of not wanting to support it anymore server-side.
If this was a F2P, offline sandbox, it would print money. Charge extra to be online, but get your cities saved to the cloud and all the interactivity. Sell building sets to both groups. Having it offline (despite your hardware concerns) would allow EA to save money on servers and avoid this headache.

DRM, in general, is stupid and misses the point. I know it's disheartening to watch your product played for free, but those people were never paying customers. They are not your loyal base or your hardcore fans. So to **** over the latter to deal with the former is silly. EA sees it as an equation; how many dollars do we make with DRM, how many do we lose. But in that equation, EA counts pirated copies. A pirated copy does not equal a lost sale. Stardock, CD Project and even Ubisoft have figured out that aggressive DRM is a waste of time.

This embarrassment exists solely because of the DRM decision. Had it not been the primary concern, there would be an offline mode. Having a handful of people with ancient computers complaining about lags is miles better than your entire user base + potentials laughing at you.

I don't blame the developers. These sorts of decisions are never theirs to make, and they lose their jobs if they criticize the publisher. DICE famously said "we will never charge for map packs" and promised mod support for Battlefield 3, but EA put the kibosh on that. These are calculated corporate moves in a non corporate world. It just doesn't work. Goodwill is everything. Steam would have never enjoyed the success it has if there was a different company behind it.

EA, like ActivisionBlizzard, is never going to have the benefit of the doubt again.

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03-08-2013, 01:05 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
I wouldn't get your hopes up, at least not until they reach the inevitable point of not wanting to support it anymore server-side.
Is their any indication if it is 100% fixable on the server capacity side?

Not to bemoan the subject but when features are being removed to ease the strain that's a bad bad sign.

I guess what I mean is there a point where EA would just say 'F it' in trying to keep up the constant server fixing and ease it by getting the bulk of the game on to consumers pc's?

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03-08-2013, 01:07 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
If this was a F2P, offline sandbox, it would print money. Charge extra to be online, but get your cities saved to the cloud and all the interactivity. Sell building sets to both groups. Having it offline (despite your hardware concerns) would allow EA to save money on servers and avoid this headache.

DRM, in general, is stupid and misses the point. I know it's disheartening to watch your product played for free, but those people were never paying customers. They are not your loyal base or your hardcore fans. So to **** over the latter to deal with the former is silly. EA sees it as an equation; how many dollars do we make with DRM, how many do we lose. But in that equation, EA counts pirated copies. A pirated copy does not equal a lost sale. Stardock, CD Project and even Ubisoft have figured out that aggressive DRM is a waste of time.

This embarrassment exists solely because of the DRM decision. Had it not been the primary concern, there would be an offline mode. Having a handful of people with ancient computers complaining about lags is miles better than your entire user base + potentials laughing at you.

I don't blame the developers. These sorts of decisions are never theirs to make, and they lose their jobs if they criticize the publisher. DICE famously said "we will never charge for map packs" and promised mod support for Battlefield 3, but EA put the kibosh on that. These are calculated corporate moves in a non corporate world. It just doesn't work. Goodwill is everything. Steam would have never enjoyed the success it has if there was a different company behind it.

EA, like ActivisionBlizzard, is never going to have the benefit of the doubt again.
Not only all of this but it would also drive mass consumers to Origin (such as myself) for the first time...

EA... just not very good at long-term planning anymore.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:16 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by MSPGabe View Post
So according to canyourunit I cannot run this game. I have way above in everything but my video card, not surprising.

I've got a 2 1/2 year old Toshiba Satellite A665 laptop. How difficult/expensive would it be to just upgrade my video card? I love my laptop, and am not in the market for a PC.
.
Can't be done really.

You sure you can't run it though? I think you can. It says the minimum is a desktop Nvidia 7800 512mb. Your card is a 330M, which seems to be slightly faster than that based on benchmarks anyway.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:23 AM
  #615
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Now getting an error saying my city needs to be 'repaired' by rolling it back, yet when I do so it still doesn't work.

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03-08-2013, 01:25 AM
  #616
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Interesting. Apparently some think that the reason the map is so small is due to the AI. There's also quite a few AI complaints popping up and it doesn't seem to be fixable at all under how it has been designed...


Quote:
It is a fundamental problem with the approach of the design. Every sim, bus, police officer and fire truck is an agent and in order to meet their needs each agent has to solve the traveling sales man problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travell...lesman_problem

Each agent is computing his own pathing. There is no network flow controller. This presents huge issues. First, It's a very resource intensive way to compute pathing. Simply put you have your population + services equal the number of pathing calculations that you're making, which means you'll be making millions of pathing decisions.

Therefore, you have to limit the intelligence of the AI, because you have to bulid your AI to preform well on min spec. Meaning, if we have 130,000 agents trying to compute their own pathing we cannot afford to make them very smart.

You're not looking at linear increase in processor demand for more intelligent pathing. Shortest route is the easiest to handle. To move beyond shortest route, processor demand moves up in scale exponentially, because it's a dynamic multi-variable calculation that can only be resolved by brute force techniques of computing multiple paths then comparing their results. The time frame for solving these problems for hundreds of thousands of sims would be described in CPU years, not fast enough for a dynamic game.

Even with our limited AI you can begin to see why the city's size has to be capped. Having a couple million sims running path algorithms would slow the game to a crawl, even with relatively stupid AI.

Even if some type of heuristics are developed to make the agents smarter, we would need to create some type of reporting and database action where the agents could learn about their environment from. Again we're looking a huge rise in the cost of processing to solve the problem of AI routing. There simply isn't a easy fix to this problem, the obstacles are inherit in the system the game was designed around.

So while we have a sim that's more dynamic than police station radiating a lower crime rate in a given area, the limitations of the new AI approach are clearly evident in this version of sim city.

As a matter of opinion, I think the simpler approach taken in past city building games is much more satisfying and conforms more to user expectations than this generation of sim city.
http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comm..._even_have_ai/

(Edit: this is why you get things like all your fire trucks going to one fire in your city when there's multiple fires)

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03-08-2013, 01:29 AM
  #617
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Interesting. Apparently some think that the reason the map is so small is due to the AI. There's also quite a few AI complaints popping up and it doesn't seem to be fixable at all under how it has been designed...
I don't know if its true or not, but there was a big thread on techpowerup talking about a rumor that the size was small because they didn't multi-thread it for modern processors. The part about it not being optimized for modern CPU's is 100% true, but if that directly affects the city sizes I have no idea. But it makes sense.

From the lead designer.
https://twitter.com/moskow23/status/296355832998801408

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03-08-2013, 01:30 AM
  #618
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Beyond 300k or so per plot, it reportedly crashes and bugs your city, even if the servers are up. Someone on reddit figured out how to get to 500k+ and it kept failing.

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03-08-2013, 01:35 AM
  #619
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Beyond 300k or so per plot, it reportedly crashes and bugs your city, even if the servers are up. Someone on reddit figured out how to get to 500k+ and it kept failing.


That's a fairly major design flaw for a released game which, at least in the past, had a primary goal of increasing population.

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03-08-2013, 02:00 AM
  #620
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Can't be done really.

You sure you can't run it though? I think you can. It says the minimum is a desktop Nvidia 7800 512mb. Your card is a 330M, which seems to be slightly faster than that based on benchmarks anyway.
*Shrug*

Canyourunit.com says I fail the min requirements for the Video Card...

Video Card

Minimum: ATI Radeon HD 2x00 or better /nVidia GeForce 7800 or better /Intel Series 4 integrated graphics or better
You Have: Intel(R) HD Graphics

Features: Minimum attributes of your Video Card

Required
Pixel Shader version 3.0
Vertex Shader version 3.0
Dedicated Video RAM 256 MB

You Have
Pixel Shader version 4.0
Vertex Shader version 4.0
Dedicated Video RAM 64 MB

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03-08-2013, 02:34 AM
  #621
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My large town (about 120k)



My other town has a bit of bad luck


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03-08-2013, 02:36 AM
  #622
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My other town has a bit of bad luck
That lizard is actually the worst disaster I've come across yet. Went straight to my garbage dump, ate a bunch and then disappeared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post


That's a fairly major design flaw for a released game which, at least in the past, had a primary goal of increasing population.
It's a challenge to get more 150k unless you are 100% residential, at least in my experience.

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03-08-2013, 03:08 AM
  #623
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Got a solid 5 hours of playing time this morning, got my oil town up to 80k residents. I'm also generating ridiculous profits, I make like 250k a day.

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My large town (about 120k)
Your graphics settings are quite a bit better than mine.

Is there any screenshot hotkey in this game?

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Old
03-08-2013, 03:10 AM
  #624
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Anyone know how to get to the absolute highest density? I seem to be stuck on 2/3, even though I have max land wealth.

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03-08-2013, 06:43 AM
  #625
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Anyone know how to get to the absolute highest density? I seem to be stuck on 2/3, even though I have max land wealth.
Did you upgrade the streets

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