Guys that play as well as Girardi did against the Caps don't grow on trees. Conversely it's hard to get the right value coming back. I've always felt he's very under rated around here. He would be a very important piece for any team that had him. IMO it will be hard to put a deal together with him in it that makes good sense for the Rangers.
Depends on the value. If we get a 70 point player for Girardi or a 45 point player for McIlrath, what do you go for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz
If it's between McIlrath and Girardi, you move McIlrath. IMO.
Girardi has proven he's a very effective 1st pairing d-man when paired with Staal. I'd rather try to poach Mac high based on his potential then Girardi high based on his great season.
Heh... you guys should go watch me get flamed on the Erixon thread on the trade boards there. It hasn't started yet, but I basically just called all the Flames fans on that thread vindictive and petty.
I don't know... is what Erixon did really that horrible of a thing? Obviously it worked out well for us, but I don't see what the big deal is. A guy is under no real obligation to the organization that drafted him unless he wants to be, weighing the pros and cons of the team and how quickly he could make the NHL. As it is, Erixon signed a two-way deal, so it's not like there's no possibility of him starting in Connecticut. What do you guys think?
Well, we'd be pissed if a player did it to the Rangers. Imagine if Kreider jumped ship to go to Boston. I totally understand being upset about it all.
I do think he's being vilified a bit much though. It's his right to not sign a contract, but fans just don't like getting attached to guys and seeing those players "diss" their team by not signing. They want total control over the player, but that's not how the CBA works and it's not fair to players if it did work that way.
In theory, I don't mind what he did, though I would be upset if he was a Ranger pick doing that.
I also get the feeling that Feaster might not be telling the whole story about how things went down, but whatever. He says they did everything to address Erixon's concerns, but how do we know that, maybe they just did what they thought should be good enough and it wasn't for Erixon? Maybe Erixon really did just want some things addressed and he'd sign but it didn't happen.
Well, we'd be pissed if a player did it to the Rangers. Imagine if Kreider jumped ship to go to Boston. I totally understand being upset about it all.
I do think he's being vilified a bit much though. It's his right to not sign a contract, but fans just don't like getting attached to guys and seeing those players "diss" their team by not signing. They want total control over the player, but that's not how the CBA works and it's not fair to players if it did work that way.
In theory, I don't mind what he did, though I would be upset if he was a Ranger pick doing that.
I also get the feeling that Feaster might not be telling the whole story about how things went down, but whatever. He says they did everything to address Erixon's concerns, but how do we know that, maybe they just did what they thought should be good enough and it wasn't for Erixon? Maybe Erixon really did just want some things addressed and he'd sign but it didn't happen.
So, whatever.
I guess I just wouldn't find it to be a "dis" if someone didn't want to play for the Rangers. I would be upset because it would suck that we were losing out on a good (or potentially good) player, but I wouldn't hate the guy for it. I wouldn't even blame the guy for it. I would just be upset from a hockey perspective.
He hasn't scored less than 37 yet since the lockout.
While a 38 year old Holmstrom isn't a perfect example, its his player type that we desperately need.
I think our power play as much needs a guy in front of the net as it does a QB.
It's a lot harder and much more expensive to find a guy to QB the PP then it is to find one to screen then goalie. Bryan Boyle can screen a goalie. Hell Sean Avery can screen a goalie better than anyone if they let him. The team just doesn't play well as a front of the net traffic team. Instead they're coached to take bad angle shots. Too much traffic in the crease = penalties these days. Trust me, Dubi and Cally are plenty capable of causing traffic in front. Holmstrom is just the best at it.
I've been trying to gauge the overall reaction to the trade, and there's an belief that the Rangers might have (or according to some Flames fans, definately) tampered with Erixon and the trade. This has been bolstered by an ESPN article that suggests the Rangers "massaged" the system. What do you guys think of the accusations?
I've been trying to gauge the overall reaction to the trade, and there's an belief that the Rangers might have (or according to some Flames fans, definately) tampered with Erixon and the trade. This has been bolstered by an ESPN article that suggests the Rangers "massaged" the system. What do you guys think of the accusations?
********, unless it's a crime that Jan played his entire career here.
I've been trying to gauge the overall reaction to the trade, and there's an belief that the Rangers might have (or according to some Flames fans, definately) tampered with Erixon and the trade. This has been bolstered by an ESPN article that suggests the Rangers "massaged" the system. What do you guys think of the accusations?
If we knew how this whole thing played out, start to finish, would we find tampering? Probably. But let's be reality here--tampering happens all the time. That doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.
Heh... you guys should go watch me get flamed on the Erixon thread on the trade boards there. It hasn't started yet, but I basically just called all the Flames fans on that thread vindictive and petty.
I don't know... is what Erixon did really that horrible of a thing? Obviously it worked out well for us, but I don't see what the big deal is. A guy is under no real obligation to the organization that drafted him unless he wants to be, weighing the pros and cons of the team and how quickly he could make the NHL. As it is, Erixon signed a two-way deal, so it's not like there's no possibility of him starting in Connecticut. What do you guys think?
I totally understand why they are pissed. You only get so many 1st round picks. A lot of a team's future is invested in one. And for a player not to mention that he isn't going to sign until nearly the last minute does seem like a crappy thing to do. I'm happy he's now a Ranger, but I don't blame Calgary fans for hoping he's a huge bust.
Staal is far and away better than Girardi. Girardi with Staal is a 1st pairing d-man. Girardi without Staal was lost.
Doesn't mean Girardi isn't good, though.
yeah, i agree with this. Staal W/O Girardi still plays like a first pair defenseman. Girardi W/O Staal plays like a 2nd borderline 3rd pair defenseman. But, together they very much play like a top pair, and thats totally fine with me.
I dont really blame Calgary fans for being angry at Erixon. They did just lose their top prospect. Imagine if Kreider or McDonagh did something like that. Ranger fans would be going crazy.
Dont know how anybody could be mad at the rangers though. Sather took advantage of a situation and made a great trade for his team. I'm pretty sure most gm's would do the same thing if they had the chance.
Heh... you guys should go watch me get flamed on the Erixon thread on the trade boards there. It hasn't started yet, but I basically just called all the Flames fans on that thread vindictive and petty.
I don't know... is what Erixon did really that horrible of a thing? Obviously it worked out well for us, but I don't see what the big deal is. A guy is under no real obligation to the organization that drafted him unless he wants to be, weighing the pros and cons of the team and how quickly he could make the NHL. As it is, Erixon signed a two-way deal, so it's not like there's no possibility of him starting in Connecticut. What do you guys think?
If a guy like Kreider/McIlrath etc done the same thing to Rangers I'd be pissed too. IMO he has more of a chance to make NHL with Flames than Rangers. We are pretty deep on D. He wanted to play for Rangers, simple as that and he went about it the wrong way too. Should've gone about it a lot quieter.
Also according to some CF fans, Erixon is a "rich, spoiled, degenerate, dumbass kid," apparently.
Sounds just like a whole bunch of mad. Understandable mad, but that's it.
I am afraid there is likely a little more truth here than we might like to believe.
My Swedish sources, let´s just say they are very reliable, indicate that there may be some underlying attitude problems here. The scoop is that the guy is very talented, extremely good positioning wise but has not yet decided if he is an offensive or defensive defenceman. He is a little bit of both yet neither at times, casually getting by with heeps of talent - but being a bit smug about it. He definitely needs some fine trimming and guidance (Torts) to live up to his potential, which all believe and see is there. He also will need to adapt to the NHL style of hockey.
His play in the WC against some of the Worlds better men in May indicated he was defensively ready for the NHL. He played a tight defensive game - often paired with the not so ideal partner Daniel Fernholm on D (The Hammer was injured in the tourneys 2nd game and did not return) - yet provided little offence. He was very good at pinching and keeping the puck in zone, is a very good skater and moves the puck well. This is very encouraging. As was his stellar play at the WJC and his very good play this past season in the SEL very exciting. This was all on a big rink - though. The guy is still very young, but has "it" already.
It will however be interesting to see where this game translates on an NHL rink with a more up-tempo hockey and if he can cope with the higher intensity North American hockey. He should be able to. The source also believes (we discussed this) that he might be able to move to RD given his talent and basic hockey skills - opening up several possibilities on D (McD - Erixon MDZ/Valentenko - Sauer or either MDZ - Erixon alt Valenteko - Erixon on the 3rd pair)
What remains now is that it is in his head where there needs to be progress to develop Tim Erixon further into a nr 1/nr 2 defender in the NHL. The guy has all the tools in the world. Now it is up to the NYR to fine groom the guy. Being the son of a hockey star can often impact the thinking and mindframe of a player (seen it many times - Robert Nilsson anyone?). But I think it can be done. I think we won the trade by a landslide in terms of potential/probable talent - but Father Time will give us the final results "...further down up the road" - like The Man in Black might have said. We have a diamond in the ruff here guys & gals. Polish it well - and we will love the trade. Let him dictate his own development and we will swear & curse endlessly over underutilized potential and fill these boards with endless BS...
On the other hand - my source is also very positive about the other 3 Swedes in the NYR system now. He says Lindberg is a "late bloomer" with a great 2 way game with a high work ethic, is great on faceoffs and will probably reach his high potential quite late. And that he will most likely blossom out to be a "very useful hockeyplayer" (Påhlsson was mentioned) at the professional level. Jesper Fasth is great, he says. Coming out of nowhere (Speedy Gonzales) and making the Swedish National team already is very impressive, he needs maybe 2 years more in the SEL + The National Team to finetune hi skills. He has a good release and has a very nice hockey sense - something seen in a plethora of young Swedes these days. Also a bit of a late bloomer - he has 2nd or even 1st line potential!!
The 3rd player mentioned is Carl Hagelin - someone my source is very familiar with and still stays in touch with. Great work ethic and a leader, the guy has a high end 3rd line wing NHL potential. Needs work on his release and shot, but does not at all mind a physical game. Said he would be surprised if he is still in the AHL after Christmas - if he at all needs to play there given his extensive experience to the North American game... He should be a Ranger this year.
Lastly, it is very often so that 2nd tier European players reach their upper potential later than NA players as they quite frequently mature slower physically (less steroids in the meat ?? ) and thereby are harder to scoop up at the draft. This is a fact. Meaning that proper scouting becomes both difficult yet extremely important in Europe given these different development curves. Just saying...
Girardi very rarely misses games--injuries or whatever. Between hits--195 and blocked shots--236--431 added together--I don't think there is any other defenseman that was even close. Staal was 140 and 109 for 249. Did I mention Girardi averages over 25 minutes a game and he rarely is out of the lineup? Throws in 31 points for good measure.
All that being said I think Staal is the better player but the idea that Girardi's game regresses when Stall isn't alongside him is not entirely accurate. As an example Rangers beat Washington Feb 23rd 6-0 with Staal out of the lineup--Del Zotto recalled and Girardi paired up with Gilroy and facing Ovechkin all night. On March 20th without Staal in the lineup we beat Pittsburgh 5-2 with Girardi and Eminger paired--though no Crosby or Malkin. Pittsburgh was red hot at the time however. That was the game that Cooke elbowed McDonagh.
I am afraid there is likely a little more truth here than we might like to believe.
My Swedish sources, let´s just say they are very reliable, indicate that there may be some underlying attitude problems here. The scoop is that the guy is very talented, extremely good positioning wise but has not yet decided if he is an offensive or defensive defenceman. He is a little bit of both yet neither at times, casually getting by with heeps of talent - but being a bit smug about it. He definitely needs some fine trimming and guidance (Torts) to live up to his potential, which all believe and see is there. He also will need to adapt to the NHL style of hockey.
His play in the WC against some of the Worlds better men in May indicated he was defensively ready for the NHL. He played a tight defensive game - often paired with the not so ideal partner Daniel Fernholm on D (The Hammer was injured in the tourneys 2nd game and did not return) - yet provided little offence. He was very good at pinching and keeping the puck in zone, is a very good skater and moves the puck well. This is very encouraging. As was his stellar play at the WJC and his very good play this past season in the SEL very exciting. This was all on a big rink - though. The guy is still very young, but has "it" already.
It will however be interesting to see where this game translates on an NHL rink with a more up-tempo hockey and if he can cope with the higher intensity North American hockey. He should be able to. The source also believes (we discussed this) that he might be able to move to RD given his talent and basic hockey skills - opening up several possibilities on D (McD - Erixon MDZ/Valentenko - Sauer or either MDZ - Erixon alt Valenteko - Erixon on the 3rd pair)
What remains now is that it is in his head where there needs to be progress to develop Tim Erixon further into a nr 1/nr 2 defender in the NHL. The guy has all the tools in the world. Now it is up to the NYR to fine groom the guy. Being the son of a hockey star can often impact the thinking and mindframe of a player (seen it many times - Robert Nilsson anyone?). But I think it can be done. I think we won the trade by a landslide in terms of potential/probable talent - but Father Time will give us the final results "...further down up the road" - like The Man in Black might have said. We have a diamond in the ruff here guys & gals. Polish it well - and we will love the trade. Let him dictate his own development and we will swear & curse endlessly over underutilized potential and fill these boards with endless BS...
On the other hand - my source is also very positive about the other 3 Swedes in the NYR system now. He says Lindberg is a "late bloomer" with a great 2 way game with a high work ethic, is great on faceoffs and will probably reach his high potential quite late. And that he will most likely blossom out to be a "very useful hockeyplayer" (Påhlsson was mentioned) at the professional level. Jesper Fasth is great, he says. Coming out of nowhere (Speedy Gonzales) and making the Swedish National team already is very impressive, he needs maybe 2 years more in the SEL + The National Team to finetune hi skills. He has a good release and has a very nice hockey sense - something seen in a plethora of young Swedes these days. Also a bit of a late bloomer - he has 2nd or even 1st line potential!!
The 3rd player mentioned is Carl Hagelin - someone my source is very familiar with and still stays in touch with. Great work ethic and a leader, the guy has a high end 3rd line wing NHL potential. Needs work on his release and shot, but does not at all mind a physical game. Said he would be surprised if he is still in the AHL after Christmas - if he at all needs to play there given his extensive experience to the North American game... He should be a Ranger this year.
Lastly, it is very often so that 2nd tier European players reach their upper potential later than NA players as they quite frequently mature slower physically (less steroids in the meat ?? ) and thereby are harder to scoop up at the draft. This is a fact. Meaning that proper scouting becomes both difficult yet extremely important in Europe given these different development curves. Just saying...
Thanks for the info...I'm sure Tim will have a lot to prove now. Hopefully he is "polished" correctly. I'm also very much looking forward to seeing more of Lindberg, Hagelin and Fasth.
) and thereby are harder to scoop up at the draft. This is a fact. Meaning that proper scouting becomes both difficult yet extremely important in Europe given these different development curves. Just saying...
