HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Notices

Marcus Johansson

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-02-2011, 09:13 AM
  #26
RandyHolt
Kuz My Arse Beach
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 23,862
vCash: 50
Nick seemed to achieve elite status with 49.9999% faceoff numbers. And lost plenty of crucial faceoffs and at times I wondered why BB didnt have Gordo and crew out instead. Its Bruce, its beyond belaboring about at this point. Point being, Bruce doesnt care. He doesnt work faceoff matchups. See one guy is dominating another and work it strategically. So i dont see Jo's next contract getting limited by his faceoffs.

Jo and I think all young centers are a work in progress in the dot. I think he needs to use quickness to win faceoffs early in his career. It seems to be about timing now, watching the hand, more than brute force. The spin and kick is good, or the rare slapper on goal is always worth a try when pulling stinking it up.

Being here behind Nick was perfect for his first year. I think he held up real well, better than probably anyone here even expected.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 09:17 AM
  #27
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Also, a new guy with few expectations attached is going to stand out more than an established guy who's production was below par, looking back on it. Fairly or unfairly.
Yeah Backstrom came into the season on the back of a 100+ point year, had a below average first quarter of the season and then pretty much went down hill all year before finishing with a complete disappearing act in the playoffs.

Johansson took a while to adjust to the NHL and did very little in the first half of the season, and then steadily improved over the second half of the season and then had a pretty decent playoffs.

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 09:18 AM
  #28
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
The days of 50 point guys being 'excellent' 3rd liners and close to point a game guys being 2nd liners were a long time ago.

Toews was 12th in scoring amongst all forwards and there were 89 50+ point forwards in the whole league last year, so extrapolating out Johansson's best month over an entire season makes him a borderline 1st liner.

And I don't get the thinking that his best month of his rookie season being his offensive upside for his career. He is never going to get any better than he was in March? Why? The way he improved between the first and second halves of the season was impressive. Where that improvement ends I don't know but I don't understand why you think it already has.
I knew you beancounters would seize on the definition of a second line center. Ideally you want a great second line center who can put up close to a point per game plus offer intangibles. Could the guys I named center a top line on a playoff team? Yes. Would they be even better as a combination behind Getzlaf, or Backstrom, or Crosby? Heck yes.

And more to the point, our center depth sucks and has for the entire existence of this franchise. Strength down the middle is a good thing and we have the cap space to invest in it. Is my suggesting that we build around three excellent centers really that controversial?

As for my projection of MJ's upside, its just a guess. But if you look at recent history, high end players aren't really making leaps early in their careers. They come up pretty much fully formed.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 09:21 AM
  #29
Langway
Moderator
Floatvechkin
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColincampbellOscopy View Post
I think that's to be expected. 60% of the time, flashy stands out more than cerebral, every time.
It's really about the speed and that stands out even more when your forwards aren't playing with a tremendous amount of spark or confidence or chemistry on a lot of nights. Cerebral on any team still needs the support of teammates to really thrive and this club doesn't do that all that well offensively.

I don't think he needs to be a 70+ point guy to give this club what they need. A 1/2 punch like those in DET/PIT/PHI/VAN would be great but if he can put up 50-60 points and be a shutdown type in the process then that gives them a lot to work with (more than they've had in a long while). He's already a plus penalty killer and should only get better defensively/in the dot as he matures physically and gains experience. I don't think he would have benefited as much being in the SEL or AHL.

Putting him at 2C this season may be rushing him but with the right linemates and approach it's more manageable. I have my doubts about Laich & Semin due to their inconsistent habits and lack of offensive well-roundedness but if they work harder/smarter and Laich drives the net more aggressively then maybe it'll work. If Laich leaves they pretty much have to go get a fairly well-rounded veteran winger from outside the org.

Langway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 09:21 AM
  #30
RandyHolt
Kuz My Arse Beach
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 23,862
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Also, a new guy with few expectations attached is going to stand out more than an established guy who's production was below par, looking back on it. Fairly or unfairly.
I understand your point, but its all in the eye of the beholder. I think we all watch all the guys under a microscope. Sure we like the shiny new toy. But I remember great defensive plays from Backstrom his rookie year, that I didn't see last year. And i was looking, waiting to see him earning that new fat cat paycheck. We all were. He didn't hustle. I saw him give up on backchecks in the playoffs. Nick had a lame duck year, I dont care how many points he had. Maybe out of shape, maybe overweight, maybe didn't care.

We didnt just see the shiny new toy, we saw everything.

And we saw one Marcus Johansson flying all over the place with and without the puck. He looked hungry. Backstrom looked full.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 09:40 AM
  #31
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
I knew you beancounters would seize on the definition of a second line center. Ideally you want a great second line center who can put up close to a point per game plus offer intangibles. Could the guys I named center a top line on a playoff team? Yes. Would they be even better as a combination behind Getzlaf, or Backstrom, or Crosby? Heck yes.
So you don't want a 2nd line centerman you want another 1st line centerman, which is fine, and you don't want a 3rd line centerman you want a 2nd line centerman playing there, again fine. Should the 4th line guy be a 3rd line guy just to continue the pattern?

Regardless though this has nothing to do with Johansson the player just how BCF would build his team.

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 09:50 AM
  #32
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
So you don't want a 2nd line centerman you want another 1st line centerman, which is fine, and you don't want a 3rd line centerman you want a 2nd line centerman playing there, again fine. Should the 4th line guy be a 3rd line guy just to continue the pattern?

Regardless though this has nothing to do with Johansson the player just how BCF would build his team.
I think I've been pretty clear that I see Johansson as a 50 point defensive rock ideally suited to the third line and getting plenty of extra icetime on the pk.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 09:56 AM
  #33
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColincampbellOscopy View Post
He was an impact player in the playoffs, but he scored his goals in 1 game. The confidence that he will score goals like Backstrom is strange because Backstrom has always been the better goal scorer at every level going back to Juniors. Johansson could turn out to be the better goal scorer, but there's no history to suggest that. Are you just basing this on Johansson being a better skater? because Backstrom has the better shot.
I am basing that on several factors.
He is already more willing to shoot the puck. Johansson has shown that he is willing to use the step he has on a defenseman to drop his shoulder and drive the net. Thats something Backstrom doesn't do. Johansson is also willing to shoot first unless a clearly superior chance is available by pass. Backstrom is more willing to trust his passing skills to create a great chance than to just take a solid shot himself.

The upshot of all of that is that Johansson doesnt need a better shot to score as many goals. I dont know what happened to backstrom this season, but Johansson scored 13 to backs 18. Johansson scored a point in 5 of the 9 playoff games and his 6 pts were tied for 3rd on the team.

Backstrom grew up in the NHL as a provider to Ovechkin. Johansson has largely played with wingers that make Johansson the best shot of the three. He is more self suffient because of that.

Yea, and then there is the speed.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2011, 10:26 AM
  #34
Smiddletown
Registered User
 
Smiddletown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Nick seemed to achieve elite status with 49.9999% faceoff numbers. And lost plenty of crucial faceoffs and at times I wondered why BB didnt have Gordo and crew out instead. Its Bruce, its beyond belaboring about at this point. Point being, Bruce doesnt care. He doesnt work faceoff matchups. See one guy is dominating another and work it strategically. So i dont see Jo's next contract getting limited by his faceoffs.

Jo and I think all young centers are a work in progress in the dot. I think he needs to use quickness to win faceoffs early in his career. It seems to be about timing now, watching the hand, more than brute force. The spin and kick is good, or the rare slapper on goal is always worth a try when pulling stinking it up.
I agree. Faceoffs, a strange science. Jordan Staal was at 49.7% this year. (These are playoff statistics.) Getzlaf, Mike Fisher, Mike Richards (and Arnott) are all around 46-47%. Maybe there's an element of quality-of-competition there? I don't know, guys like Datsyuk and Kesler still manage to get around 55%.

Backstrom is at 46% in the playoffs this year, for reference. (52% in the RS.)


Last edited by Smiddletown: 06-02-2011 at 10:31 AM.
Smiddletown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 12:14 AM
  #35
Bananas
****
 
Bananas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,196
vCash: 500
It's funny how Backstrom was the player I worried about the least coming into the year and he fell off a cliff. He just seemed to have being dependable in his DNA and then he really let us down.

Are their any feasible options out there for 2C that would slot down MoJo into a more comfortable 3C role without breaking the cap?

I'd lose Laich + Schultz for a legit 2C but don't know if anyone available fits the bill as those are the types of players teams generally hold onto for dear life.

Bananas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 01:50 AM
  #36
Atlas
Registered User
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 3,039
vCash: 500
Something tells me that Backstrom hates Boudreau's coaching. He was a pure gem from Day 1 until this year's training camp. Yes, it's possible he was out of shape. If that's the case, that grounds to trade him. The same is true for any player (yes, even HIM!). And Nick was injured somewhat but that's not the whole story. There is a goofy fog of mystery enveloping this losing organization. It's similar to the Baltimore Orioles org. No one is too clear about what's going on. Why can't Nick say, "My arm is broken," if it is?

Maybe it's because the pain wasn't that bad and he just didn't have faith in Boudreau's nonsense ("Cawww...") anymore.

MaJo is an enigma to me. I can't think of a comparable player. He looks like a solid NHLer but I'll be damned if I know what line he belongs on.

Atlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 06:12 AM
  #37
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,060
vCash: 500
brilliant!! backstrom rides boudreau's non-sense to a 100 pt season and a 10 year contract and then immediately hates his crap from day one the next season. its clear as day.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 07:15 AM
  #38
RandyHolt
Kuz My Arse Beach
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 23,862
vCash: 50
I think a lack of respect may be in play. Did Nick have more tactical coaches over in sweden, ones that would make adjustments? I will guess yes.

Or maybe there is hate. I bet Fehr and Varly aren't loving Bruce much these days, yep from one season to the next. Yet both owe all they have to Bruce. Call someone out in the locker room, hate can appear real quick. Nick may simply hate the system. Nick has to watch Alzner Sarge Erskine and Hannan bring the O while he covers. Thats more defensive responsibilities than he had in Sweden, I'd suspect.

Keep them coming though Atlas, we need the entertainment.

MJ has potential to be 1st liner in my book. If Nick remains this lethargic, I cant see MJ behind held back by anyone else in the organization. Where do we think he would have been drafted if we pretend the concussions never happened? George didnt seem fazed by them, so play along.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 07:43 AM
  #39
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,060
vCash: 500
you think? base that on anything concrete? what i think is most here want boudreau out. think boudreau is a clown. with that if the fans all think boudreau is a fools without a clue, the players certainly must feel the same way.

since leonsis and mcphee are the only two people in america that can't see that, it also proves that the organEYEzation is clueless. thus players just threw in the towel.

now, this predisponses that backstrom coasted all season and then didnt give a rats a$$ by the 2nd round of playoffs....while his buddy ovechkin, whether he loves boudreau or hates him, was busting is butt and his countryman johansson was making him look awful.
backstrom still allowed his lack of respect for his coach to severely effect his play.

really?

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 08:29 AM
  #40
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
really?
As the great OJ Simpson once said, "it happens..."

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 08:42 AM
  #41
Fallschirmyager
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
you think? base that on anything concrete? what i think is most here want boudreau out. think boudreau is a clown. with that if the fans all think boudreau is a fools without a clue, the players certainly must feel the same way.

since leonsis and mcphee are the only two people in america that can't see that, it also proves that the organEYEzation is clueless. thus players just threw in the towel.

now, this predisponses that backstrom coasted all season and then didnt give a rats a$$ by the 2nd round of playoffs....while his buddy ovechkin, whether he loves boudreau or hates him, was busting is butt and his countryman johansson was making him look awful.
backstrom still allowed his lack of respect for his coach to severely effect his play.

really?
I don't buy into the conspiracy theories going on from the brothers grimm these days about the team or management. I do however have the opinion that it damn sure looked to me like he lost at least some of the team in the playoffs. I forget which game it was but half the game looked like nobody gave a damn. That is a major issue if the coach can't correct it.

Fallschirmyager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 08:54 AM
  #42
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
I do however have the opinion that it damn sure looked to me like he lost at least some of the team in the playoffs. I forget which game it was but half the game looked like nobody gave a damn. That is a major issue if the coach can't correct it.
I definitely think most of the team realized 'the system' they were being asked to play was not working against Tampa and that the coaches only instructions of 'play harder' weren't making any difference so they just started freelancing in an effort to get anything going offensively, which obviously didn't work either.

The players were clearly frustrated and it showed in what they were doing and how they were doing it.

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 08:54 AM
  #43
RandyHolt
Kuz My Arse Beach
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 23,862
vCash: 50
High drama in those posts, its fun getting you all riled up arguing things no one can conclusively prove one way or the other. Try and stay on topic and discuss Marcus at least a little bit.

I include you Tex in those that want Bruce out. Are you being hypocritical now? You want him out, but none of the players... are you clueless too. Did you always adore your boss in every job? Even after they miss their numbers, year after year? Your bonus or income potential, limited by him, fumbling it away late in the 4th quarter 4 years in a row, not adjusting to defeat the competitors?

At some point, after enough playoff failures, its not just the fans. Doubt creeps into players minds, book it. Some may outright think he is a "clown", the word you seem to keep using repeatedly. If the shoe doesnt fit, dont wear it so much.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 06-06-2011 at 10:41 AM.
RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 09:24 AM
  #44
Fallschirmyager
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I definitely think most of the team realized 'the system' they were being asked to play was not working against Tampa and that the coaches only instructions of 'play harder' weren't making any difference so they just started freelancing in an effort to get anything going offensively, which obviously didn't work either.

The players were clearly frustrated and it showed in what they were doing and how they were doing it.
OT: I think Mojo has at least a 2C skill set. We saw flashes of the ability to be as high as a 1C but this was his adjustment year. I expect to see a lot more skill brought this year. combine that with his already high grade defensive work and this kid will be another steal. Now all we need is NB back in form and chemistry established with Semin and we're set.

Mill: This is my complaint with BB and why I think it's time for him to go. He has proven from year to year he can change up the system and win regular season hockey games. What he hasn't done is prove he can make adjustments to the opposition coaches adjustments. That's not a recipe for winning too many playoff series and I think the players see this too.

Fallschirmyager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 11:01 AM
  #45
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
As the great OJ Simpson once said, "it happens..."
If Backstrom is a championship player, it doesn't happen. Certainly not to the extent of going from arguably the Caps most reliable playoff player to a complete disappearing act. I can buy it by degrees, but from one extreme to the other, i dont.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 11:10 AM
  #46
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
High drama in those posts, its fun getting you all riled up arguing things no one can conclusively prove one way or the other. Try and stay on topic and discuss Marcus at least a little bit.

I include you Tex in those that want Bruce out. Are you being hypocritical now? You want him out, but none of the players... are you clueless too. Did you always adore your boss in every job? Even after they miss their numbers, year after year? Your bonus or income potential, limited by him, fumbling it away late in the 4th quarter 4 years in a row, not adjusting to defeat the competitors?

At some point, after enough playoff failures, its not just the fans. Doubt creeps into players minds, book it. Some may outright think he is a "clown", the word you seem to keep using repeatedly. If the shoe doesnt fit, dont wear it so much.
My view is that the last two seasons of playoff fail would damage team confidence beyond repair and that new leadership is required.

I base that on what I see on the outside. What the actual situation is inside, I am clueless. From the cheap seats I might also have chose Teterborough while being on the inside Sully picked the Hudson.

Did I always adore my boss? No. Did I tank my effort as a result? Not on your life.
You are suggesting Backstrom put up his career high numbers and got the contract of his life and because of a first round playoff upset decided he was going to mail it in til there was a new coach. Regardless of the style change and the 1 seed earned. Regardless of the first round playoff win and the second round division rival opponent. He didnt care as much as most of his teammates.

If that is really what you think of the guy, then says more about his lack of professional conduct than boudreau's coaching ability. You think yer boy Jason Arnott would have held his tongue about that? JA pucked up and moved for a shot at the cup and even by the second round of playoffs the all star center on the team doesnt give a crap? Arnott lets that pass?

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 11:11 AM
  #47
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,142
vCash: 500
This is getting absurd. Do people really think Backstrom had an off year because he didn't believe in the system? A year after he scored 100 points in a less-disciplined version of it? Come on.

As for the subject of the thread, I'm on record with saying Johansson's upside is Zetterbergian. He might not reach that level, but the tools are there. I think he's a safe bet as an elite #3 center/fringe #2 guy (he might be there this fall). I wouldn't bet against him becoming a very good two-way 2nd line center.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 11:39 AM
  #48
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,060
vCash: 500
To pick up on NBTW, my view on Johansson is that he will become first an elite penalty killer. His defensive accumen is clear. He reads very well at a very early age and his ability to apply his elite level skills on defense in general and the pk in particular. His weakness will be his size and the ability of big centers like Lecavalier, EStaal and Malkin to outmuscle him is clear. On the pk he will far less often be matched in a physical battle against those bigger elite players.

offensively, as i've mentioned he is more disposed to shoot the puck and to drive the net with and without the puck. his speed will constantly cause match up problems for opposition. He is an odd man rush waiting to happen. He is not the elite passer that Backstrom is, but he's well above average and in open ice on the rush he's deadly.

if the Caps acquired a large veteran center with checking first skills for the 3rd line, the Caps have matchup options.

Edit: I'll add this. With Green, Carlson and Widemen in the lineup and Johansson with his more established game, the transition offense potention from those high level puck moving defense and the elite speed and quality puck handling of Johansson could become a real game changer for the Caps.

I know....I know.....but with the primary defensive group checking Ovechkin and Backstrom, any one of the three puck movers plus Johansson and(i have to say it) Semin create a real matchup problem for almost any team in the east.


Last edited by txpd: 06-06-2011 at 11:45 AM.
txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 12:26 PM
  #49
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 11,132
vCash: 500
I'm still laughing at a 50-point player being "best suited" for a 3rd line role.

Mystlyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2011, 12:31 PM
  #50
RandyHolt
Kuz My Arse Beach
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 23,862
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
This is getting absurd. Do people really think Backstrom had an off year because he didn't believe in the system? A year after he scored 100 points in a less-disciplined version of it? Come on.

....
Why did Backstrom have an off year and off playoffs, and also, how do you know what he believes in? Thanks.

What he believes in today doesn't matter how many points he scored centering Ovi in a wide open system two years ago. It led to an embarassing playoff defeat that certainly didnt help me believe in the system. It showed the system had flaws and that the coach wouldn't adjust.

I personally believe he or others may be burned out on the system. Or no longer believe in the system, not unlike myself, after seeing it largely shut down for 5 straight months. Our offense and PP were downright ugly.

I would think that would tend to make players question the system. But I am not in the game. So I must be wrong, right?

I think it is absurd to claim to know whats in a players mind.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.