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06-02-2011, 06:00 AM
  #1
dkollidas
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young centers

So I've been thinking about this for a while.

1. Sabres have about as good a chance or a little less so than anyone else to sign Richards. More than some others because of their cap space. I wouldn't mind them too but I worry about the term and amount and have a feeling it won't happen.

2. Other than Richards there's really no one I want via free agency to be one of our top-6 centers next season.

3. Trading for guys like Spezza, Stastny, or even a David Backes, will likely require an overpayment that some may be comfortable with, but I like the depth this team has on the wings and on defense. The top end talent might not be there, especially at center and we're still looking for a #1/#2 center, but I think there's prospects in the system may eventually fill those rolls.

-That being said, what do you think of the idea of the Sabres making some unusual moves. I was thinking of maybe trading Chris Butler and a mid-round draft pick to Boston for Marc Savard and Zach Hamill. Butler is solid, but if Savard ever returns to health, it would be a steal for Buffalo, his cap hit is not exorbitant, and Zach Hamill is seen as a bust but maybe a change of scenery does him good, and we also need centers in the minors as well for next season.

Another proposal would be for Josh Bailey of the New York Islanders. If we did make a move (a similar deal to the one above, Butler and a mid-round pick, or Butler and Sundher) and then signed a fill in at the number two slot, Buffalo could do whats been needed for Bailey for so long, give him some time in the AHL. I believe he was improperly developed by the Islanders but is still salvageable

Another guy who a proposal similar to that might work for is Ryan O'Reilly of Colorado. Now Butler might not work for some of these deals, maybe with Colorado they want Enroth, or maybe on the Island they want Boyes and Byron or something like that. I'm just trying to say maybe they can deal for a guy who might be seen as damaged goods (I know O'Reilly isn't, but he's the exception) but is still relatively young enough to develop within our system.

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06-02-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
So I've been thinking about this for a while.

1. Sabres have about as good a chance or a little less so than anyone else to sign Richards. More than some others because of their cap space. I wouldn't mind them too but I worry about the term and amount and have a feeling it won't happen.

2. Other than Richards there's really no one I want via free agency to be one of our top-6 centers next season.

3. Trading for guys like Spezza, Stastny, or even a David Backes, will likely require an overpayment that some may be comfortable with, but I like the depth this team has on the wings and on defense. The top end talent might not be there, especially at center and we're still looking for a #1/#2 center, but I think there's prospects in the system may eventually fill those rolls.

-That being said, what do you think of the idea of the Sabres making some unusual moves. I was thinking of maybe trading Chris Butler and a mid-round draft pick to Boston for Marc Savard and Zach Hamill. Butler is solid, but if Savard ever returns to health, it would be a steal for Buffalo, his cap hit is not exorbitant, and Zach Hamill is seen as a bust but maybe a change of scenery does him good, and we also need centers in the minors as well for next season.

Another proposal would be for Josh Bailey of the New York Islanders. If we did make a move (a similar deal to the one above, Butler and a mid-round pick, or Butler and Sundher) and then signed a fill in at the number two slot, Buffalo could do whats been needed for Bailey for so long, give him some time in the AHL. I believe he was improperly developed by the Islanders but is still salvageable
Another guy who a proposal similar to that might work for is Ryan O'Reilly of Colorado. Now Butler might not work for some of these deals, maybe with Colorado they want Enroth, or maybe on the Island they want Boyes and Byron or something like that. I'm just trying to say maybe they can deal for a guy who might be seen as damaged goods (I know O'Reilly isn't, but he's the exception) but is still relatively young enough to develop within our system.
I really like Bailey, everyone seems to think he is a bust but the kid is just that a "kid." I think that he can still be a top center and if we dont have to give up that much to get him then I'm all for it not to mention if we could Sign richards and trade for Bailey that would be a dream come true. Richards, Roy, Bailey, and Goose down the middle

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06-02-2011, 07:40 AM
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WhoIsJimBob
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How about offer sheet Stamkos?


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06-02-2011, 10:46 AM
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dkollidas
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Stamkos? Why? So we can pay the max salary, lose four first round picks and have cap issues when we have to re-sign Ennis, Myers, and other young players? I'd rather trade Butler, Sign a top-4 defenseman and maybe sign a free agent center like Jussi Jokinen to center the second line for a year or two

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06-02-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Stamkos? Why? So we can pay the max salary, lose four first round picks and have cap issues when we have to re-sign Ennis, Myers, and other young players? I'd rather trade Butler, Sign a top-4 defenseman and maybe sign a free agent center like Jussi Jokinen to center the second line for a year or two
I would trade 4 first rounders and pay him the max. The guy is a superstar and he is only in his early 20's ..no brainer

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06-02-2011, 11:29 AM
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I would trade 4 first rounders and pay him the max. The guy is a superstar and he is only in his early 20's ..no brainer
And that will be the excuse for a GM to send an offer sheet Myers' way.

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06-02-2011, 01:44 PM
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Ron Barr
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I'd love to get one of the kids from Edmtonon, one of Cogliano, Brule or Gagner. Obviously Gagner would cost the most, but I could see any of them flourishing in a fresh environment like Buffalo, with a lot more talent around them to help them develop.

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06-02-2011, 01:45 PM
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And that will be the excuse for a GM to send an offer sheet Myers' way.
There is a simple solution to that: don't let Myers hit RFA.

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06-02-2011, 01:46 PM
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Cogliano fills the bill as a young center who has fallen on hard times after an initial bought of success. Cast in the role of swift 3rd line checking center and PKer, he might flourish as he seems well suited to role-based assignments. Not big, but has some finish and very good wheels...

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06-02-2011, 01:54 PM
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Evgeni Giroux
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people need to realize that the player actually has to sign the offer sheet..

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06-02-2011, 01:54 PM
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Ron Barr
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Cogliano fills the bill as a young center who has fallen on hard times after an initial bought of success. Cast in the role of swift 3rd line checking center and PKer, he might flourish as he seems well suited to role-based assignments. Not big, but has some finish and very good wheels...
He's probably #1 of the three I mentioned in my last post, as far as players I'd go after. Judging from what little amount of Edmonton games I've watched the past couple years, and the Oil Change show, he seems to have a great attitude, and is willing to fulfill whatever role he's put in to the best of his ability.

I guess it comes down to what people want from our "scoring centers". Would people settle for our second line center being a 40-45 point guy again? Because even if Cogs had a bounce-back season in Buffalo, that's probably the type of offense he'd put up. I personally would be fine with that, 2nd line centers usually produce that much in today's NHL anyway. But some people on here will say the problem isn't solved unless we have 2 point-per-game centers on our roster (which is almost impossible to find in the NHL these days).

Perhaps if we trade for Cogs, sign someone like Belanger, and draft someone like McNeill in the draft this year, our center depth would be looking a lot better.

Center Depth
Roy
Cogliano
Belanger
Gaustad
Byron

Part-Time Centers (but primarily wingers)
Hecht
Adam

Prospect Centers
McNeill
Sundher

Sure there's nobody elite on that list, but if we can get Cogliano to turn his game around, and if guys like Byron, Sundher and McNeill continue to develop properly, we'd have a lot more stability down the middle than we have now.

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06-02-2011, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Stamkos? Why? So we can pay the max salary, lose four first round picks and have cap issues when we have to re-sign Ennis, Myers, and other young players? I'd rather trade Butler, Sign a top-4 defenseman and maybe sign a free agent center like Jussi Jokinen to center the second line for a year or two
You missed the meaning of the

Stamkos isn't going anywhere in large part because Tampa Bay has more cap space than the Sabres do this off season.

Now if budget space is a limiting factor.....

But honestly, I wouldn't mind it at all if the Sabres went all in on Stamkos.

The kid is 21yo, he's coming off back to back 45+ goal and 90+ pt seasons, and he should have plenty of prime years ahead of him.

And with the Sabres having around $12M against the cap slated to come off the books after 2011-12 in 4 UFAs-to-be (Boyes, Hecht, Gaustad, and Morrisonn), they would have the cap space to re-sign Myers & Ennis without too much trouble.

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06-02-2011, 01:58 PM
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people need to realize that the player actually has to sign the offer sheet..
Certainly all players in the NHL have gotten the email that Buffalo is now "Hockey Heaven".


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06-02-2011, 02:14 PM
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Brule is more of a project/4th line guy who has been more successful in Edmonton on the wing. Certainly a possible scratch-and-dent pickup since he has his junior pedigree and some clear abilities... but he's so damn unhealthy (both illness and injury).

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06-03-2011, 08:03 AM
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Brule is more of a project/4th line guy who has been more successful in Edmonton on the wing. Certainly a possible scratch-and-dent pickup since he has his junior pedigree and some clear abilities... but he's so damn unhealthy (both illness and injury).
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...CQZ9iA&cad=rja

The price for Brule might go up if he can get Bono to sign the anthem.


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06-03-2011, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...CQZ9iA&cad=rja

The price for Brule might go up if he can get Bono to sign the anthem.

I posted a link to that in the OT thread yesterday.

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06-04-2011, 12:53 PM
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I always marvel how posters want to acquire young centers that have either struggled or not come close to their potential on other teams to see if they can develop here.

But dismiss out of hand the idea of giving Adam, our center prospect that was AHL rookie of the year, a chance. In their opinion he is either not ready or should be a wing. They base this on a whopping total of 19gms in the NHL. Most of which came early in the season prior to him having many AHL games under his belt. The wing stuff makes me chuckle since Ruff's most recent comments about him (after watching him in the AHL playoffs) are that he envisions Adam as a #1-2 big bodied two way center. I guess he didn't get the memo that he should be a winger.


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06-04-2011, 01:02 PM
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Evgeni Giroux
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I always marvel how posters want to acquire young centers that have either struggled or not come close to their potential on other teams to see if they can develop here.

But dismiss out of hand the idea of giving Adam, our center prospect that was AHL rookie of the year, a chance. In their opinion he is either not ready or should be a wing. They base this on a whopping total of 19gms in the NHL. Most of which came early in the season prior to him having many AHL games under his belt. The wing stuff makes me chuckle since Ruff's most recent comments about him (after watching him in the AHL playoffs) are that he envisions Adam as a #1-2 big bodied two way center. I guess he didn't get the memo that he should be a winger.
I agree 100% with you, maybe adam can come up and get 40pts next year as a centre.

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06-04-2011, 01:06 PM
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I see Byron having a big season next year in the AHL as well. Particularly with the addtions of Foligno and Kassian to the roster. He should provide us with a solid callup option when injuries hit.

Between Adam and Byron I think we will have two solid center depth options next season.


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06-04-2011, 01:31 PM
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Ron Barr
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I always marvel how posters want to acquire young centers that have either struggled or not come close to their potential on other teams to see if they can develop here.

But dismiss out of hand the idea of giving Adam, our center prospect that was AHL rookie of the year, a chance. In their opinion he is either not ready or should be a wing. They base this on a whopping total of 19gms in the NHL. Most of which came early in the season prior to him having many AHL games under his belt. The wing stuff makes me chuckle since Ruff's most recent comments about him (after watching him in the AHL playoffs) are that he envisions Adam as a #1-2 big bodied two way center. I guess he didn't get the memo that he should be a winger.
There's a big difference between the AHL and NHL. Guys like Cogliano have been competing in the NHL for 4 full seasons. That experience is a good thing, not a bad thing.

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06-04-2011, 01:38 PM
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There's a big difference between the AHL and NHL. Guys like Cogliano have been competing in the NHL for 4 full seasons. That experience is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I would much rather give Adam a chance then a guy like cogliano,

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06-04-2011, 01:45 PM
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There's a big difference between the AHL and NHL. Guys like Cogliano have been competing in the NHL for 4 full seasons. That experience is a good thing, not a bad thing.
He is no more likely than Adam to get it and be the center we need in a year or two when we likely make our run. We also already have enough small players in our system. I could see adding a smallish center if he was a proven top 6 center and offensive dynamo (Briere). But I'm not interested in adding a small center thats going to be a project.


I've said it before that I'd rather see Adam start developing towards the top 6 center Ruff sees him as than the projects many on here suggest we get. Adam can develop into something Cogliano or Gagne can never be, a top 6 center with size (6'3" 215lbs).

Btw if you think Cogliano's upside is getting back to being a 40-45pt center, why bother? Do we really need a small center thats not an offensive dynamo?


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06-04-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
He is no more likely than Adam to get it and be the center we need in a year or two when we likely make our run. We also already have enough small players in our system. I could see adding a smallish center if he was a proven top 6 center and offensive dynamo (Briere). But I'm not interested in adding a small center thats going to be a project.


I've said it before that I'd rather see Adam start developing towards the top 6 center Ruff sees him as than the projects many on here suggest we get. Adam can develop into something Cogliano or Gagne can never be, a top 6 center with size (6'3" 215lbs).

Btw if you think Cogliano's upside is getting back to being a 40-45pt center, why bother? Do we really need a small center thats not an offensive dynamo?
I'll make you a compromise: IF the Sabres are able to acquire a decent scoring center (doesn't have to be Richards, but should be atleast as good as Filppula), then let Byron/Adam fight it out as the 3rd line center and sign Nieds for ~700k/1yr as backup option in case they're both not ready.

I'm not a fan having to count on them being ready, but that way it gives them a chance for a roster spot and the team some center depth, even if they can't handle it. I think I'd be okay with that.


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06-04-2011, 04:22 PM
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I'll make you a compromise: IF the Sabres are able to acquire a decent scoring center (doesn't have to be Richards, but should be atleast as good as Filppula), then let Byron/Adam fight it out as the 3rd line center and sign Nieds for ~700k/1yr as backup option in case they're both not ready.

I'm not a fan having to count on them being ready, but that way it gives them a chance for a roster spot and the team some center depth, even if they can't handle it. I think I'd be okay with that.
I don't have any issues with them bringin Neidermayer back next season as he looked much better in the playoffs and towards the end of the year after his knee improved. I also advocate playing Adam as the 3rd line center with a defensively responsible partner ala Neids or Hecht. Ostensibly I'd prefer them to sign a number 2 center that's good for 50ish points to put between Ennis and Stafford or Vanek and Pominville.

Personally I wouldn't be too heart-broken if the starting lineup for next season looked like:

Vanek UFA/Roy Pominville
Ennis UFA/Roy Stafford
Hecht Adam Neidermayer
Gerbe Gaustad McCormick

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06-04-2011, 08:39 PM
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Two points on Adam -- he doesn't look ready yet, even with the strides he made late in the season. And to be blunt, he's still pretty damn slow. So at this point, I'm not ready to see him pencilled into the lineup over anyone, Ruff's tire-pumping commentary or not. Someone like Cogliano offers a young player with something the Sabres need -- speed -- at a position they're particularly thin at. If he develops further, great. If he stalls, he's still a 30-40 point player on a reasonable contract who fills a role while they wait for Adam (or someone else's) maturation. This isn't an either/or scenario.

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