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Old
06-04-2011, 08:58 PM
  #26
joshjull
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Two points on Adam -- he doesn't look ready yet, even with the strides he made late in the season. And to be blunt, he's still pretty damn slow. So at this point, I'm not ready to see him pencilled into the lineup over anyone, Ruff's tire-pumping commentary or not. Someone like Cogliano offers a young player with something the Sabres need -- speed -- at a position they're particularly thin at. If he develops further, great. If he stalls, he's still a 30-40 point player on a reasonable contract who fills a role while they wait for Adam (or someone else's) maturation. This isn't an either/or scenario.
Fair points and I agree it doesn't have to be an either or scenario. I'm just not that sold on Cogliano. But adding a speedy PKing center isn't the worst thing in the world. Although this is his first season with significant PK time and he makes Hecht look like a faceoff specialist

As for Adam's speed. Thats not going to change much. So unless they put rocket boosters on his skates, he will need to learn to play with what he has.


Last edited by joshjull: 06-04-2011 at 09:26 PM.
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06-05-2011, 01:08 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
Personally I wouldn't be too heart-broken if the starting lineup for next season looked like:

Vanek UFA/Roy Pominville
Ennis UFA/Roy Stafford
Hecht Adam Neidermayer
Gerbe Gaustad McCormick
Seriously? I'm assuming that you're banking on them adding Richards because, other than him, what UFA center could they add that would make them better? Insert any other UFA center in with the rest of the lineup you list and I don't see any improvement beyond hoping for the proverbial "continued development" from the existing roster.

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06-05-2011, 01:17 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Someone like Cogliano offers a young player with something the Sabres need -- speed -- at a position they're particularly thin at. If he develops further, great. If he stalls, he's still a 30-40 point player on a reasonable contract who fills a role while they wait for Adam (or someone else's) maturation.
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Fair points and I agree it doesn't have to be an either or scenario. I'm just not that sold on Cogliano. But adding a speedy PKing center isn't the worst thing in the world. Although this is his first season with significant PK time and he makes Hecht look like a faceoff specialist
Cogliano may be 3 years younger and thus qualify more as a "young center" but I'd still prefer Filppula as a 3rd line center over Cogliano. He's as fluid a skater and better offensive player while having matured within a defensive system.

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As for Adam's speed. Thats not going to change much. So unless they put rocket boosters on his skates, he will need to learn to play with what he has.
I'd agree with that. It may sound a bit crazy but if the Sabres can add a 1st and 3rd line center from outside to surround Roy in the 2nd slot, I'd be OK with the Sabres using Gaustad in any trade packages and promote Adam to take his spot on the 4th line in low-pressure situation. I know the faceoff abilities of Gaustad would be missed but he's been reduced to a plodding, checking center whose size isn't as significant advantage as he used to make it.


Last edited by joshjull: 06-05-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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06-05-2011, 07:42 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Cogliano may be 3 years younger and thus qualify more as a "young center" but I'd still prefer Filppula as a 3rd line center over Cogliano. He's as fluid a skater and better offensive player while having matured within a defensive system.



I'd agree with that. It may sound a bit crazy but if the Sabres can add a 1st and 3rd line center from outside to surround Roy in the 2nd slot, I'd be OK with the Sabres using Gaustad in any trade packages and promote Adam to take his spot on the 4th line in low-pressure situation. I know the faceoff abilities of Gaustad would be missed but he's been reduced to a plodding, checking center whose size isn't as significant advantage as he used to make it.
I'm not ruling anyone out or have particular preferenences for one player over another -- Filppula also would give them someone with a Cup ring and long-term playoff success and that's worth something as well -- just pointing out that given the OP, Cogliano fits as both young and likely available for something the Sabres could pay.

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06-05-2011, 08:06 AM
  #30
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how come everyone puts gaustad as the 4th line centre? he has shown he is more than capable to play 3rd line..

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06-05-2011, 08:35 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 1972sabres View Post
how come everyone puts gaustad as the 4th line centre? he has shown he is more than capable to play 3rd line..
Capable, but everyone expects to run 3 scoring lines next year and he's better suited as the 4th line center in that scenerio. I also think in order to be serious contenders we need three centers better than him offensively on the team.

What do people think of PM Bouchard? Minnesota has essentially said everyone is available aside from Koivu (http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/123065568.html). He's a 27 year old, former 1st round pick (8th overall) who's usually good for 55-60 pts on a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 07-08 (his best year 63 pts). Could adding Nick Schultz to the deal be our answer for Myers "shutdown partner"? I don't know his game well enough to project that. Would love to get Burns to fill the RD hole, but that would probably be asking too much.

People also need to think about the hole Connolly is leaving on the PK. Niedermeyer or Adam aren't going to get that done. I like the idea of Roy, Bouchard, Connolly and Gaustad. As I know most of you want Connolly gone, I would prefer to get Drury to replace him than Neidermeyer or Adam to help with the PK.

Vanek-Bouchard-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-Stafford
Gerbe-Connolly/Drury-Boyes
Hecht/McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

Roy is the "second line center" only because I don't like him on Vanek's line.


Last edited by Digable5: 06-05-2011 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Added comment about Roy on line 1b.
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06-05-2011, 09:17 AM
  #32
Evgeni Giroux
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
Capable, but everyone expects to run 3 scoring lines next year and he's better suited as the 4th line center in that scenerio. I also think in order to be serious contenders we need three centers better than him offensively on the team.

What do people think of PM Bouchard? Minnesota has essentially said everyone is available aside from Koivu (http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/123065568.html). He's a 27 year old, former 1st round pick (8th overall) who's usually good for 55-60 pts on a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 07-08 (his best year 63 pts). Could adding Nick Schultz to the deal be our answer for Myers "shutdown partner"? I don't know his game well enough to project that. Would love to get Burns to fill the RD hole, but that would probably be asking too much.

People also need to think about the hole Connolly is leaving on the PK. Niedermeyer or Adam aren't going to get that done. I like the idea of Roy, Bouchard, Connolly and Gaustad. As I know most of you want Connolly gone, I would prefer to get Drury to replace him than Neidermeyer or Adam to help with the PK.

Vanek-Bouchard-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-Stafford
Gerbe-Connolly/Drury-Boyes
Hecht/McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

Roy is the "second line center" only because I don't like him on Vanek's line.
I likethe idea of shultz but not so much bouchard, isn't he a winger?

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06-05-2011, 09:45 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Seriously? I'm assuming that you're banking on them adding Richards because, other than him, what UFA center could they add that would make them better? Insert any other UFA center in with the rest of the lineup you list and I don't see any improvement beyond hoping for the proverbial "continued development" from the existing roster.
Richards is the last player I would be banking on. An UFA could range anywhere from a Belanger, Arnott, to a Connolly. I think there's a player out there that Regier can pick up via FA or trade that they'll slot into the #2 center role. I also don't think that they need to overpay to acquire a game changing center as they played remarkably well down the stretch with a bunch of #3 centers in the middle. Having a healthy Roy back will give them their #1. A defensively sound #2 that can get them 50ish points will work well with the team.

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06-05-2011, 10:10 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Seriously? I'm assuming that you're banking on them adding Richards because, other than him, what UFA center could they add that would make them better? Insert any other UFA center in with the rest of the lineup you list and I don't see any improvement beyond hoping for the proverbial "continued development" from the existing roster.
I'm not sure what you expect, most people have been saying that they would be totally pleased with an offseason that added a #1/2C and #2D. What other forward changes are you looking for?

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06-05-2011, 11:40 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
Capable, but everyone expects to run 3 scoring lines next year and he's better suited as the 4th line center in that scenerio. I also think in order to be serious contenders we need three centers better than him offensively on the team.

What do people think of PM Bouchard? Minnesota has essentially said everyone is available aside from Koivu (http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/123065568.html). He's a 27 year old, former 1st round pick (8th overall) who's usually good for 55-60 pts on a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 07-08 (his best year 63 pts). Could adding Nick Schultz to the deal be our answer for Myers "shutdown partner"? I don't know his game well enough to project that. Would love to get Burns to fill the RD hole, but that would probably be asking too much.

People also need to think about the hole Connolly is leaving on the PK. Niedermeyer or Adam aren't going to get that done. I like the idea of Roy, Bouchard, Connolly and Gaustad. As I know most of you want Connolly gone, I would prefer to get Drury to replace him than Neidermeyer or Adam to help with the PK.

Vanek-Bouchard-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-Stafford
Gerbe-Connolly/Drury-Boyes
Hecht/McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

Roy is the "second line center" only because I don't like him on Vanek's line.
Having Bouchards AND Connolly in the same line-up would make me LOL. Those are two glass bodies that would probably never even play in the same game together throughout the season.

Not to mention Bouchard is pretty bad at center and prefers to play wing.

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06-05-2011, 01:28 PM
  #36
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Having Bouchards AND Connolly in the same line-up would make me LOL. Those are two glass bodies that would probably never even play in the same game together throughout the season.

Not to mention Bouchard is pretty bad at center and prefers to play wing.
I'll take your word that he's a better W, but I don't get the "glass body" comment Last season he played his lowest amount of games (59) and prior to last season he had three straight seasons of 80+ games.

I guess I'll have to find more of a true center option, but he's the right age, availability, salary and offensive production I think would be good for us. Someone that wouldn't take too much to obtain, but could thrive with our forwards.

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06-05-2011, 01:42 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
Capable, but everyone expects to run 3 scoring lines next year and he's better suited as the 4th line center in that scenerio. I also think in order to be serious contenders we need three centers better than him offensively on the team.

What do people think of PM Bouchard? Minnesota has essentially said everyone is available aside from Koivu (http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/123065568.html). He's a 27 year old, former 1st round pick (8th overall) who's usually good for 55-60 pts on a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 07-08 (his best year 63 pts). Could adding Nick Schultz to the deal be our answer for Myers "shutdown partner"? I don't know his game well enough to project that. Would love to get Burns to fill the RD hole, but that would probably be asking too much.

People also need to think about the hole Connolly is leaving on the PK. Niedermeyer or Adam aren't going to get that done. I like the idea of Roy, Bouchard, Connolly and Gaustad. As I know most of you want Connolly gone, I would prefer to get Drury to replace him than Neidermeyer or Adam to help with the PK.

Vanek-Bouchard-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-Stafford
Gerbe-Connolly/Drury-Boyes
Hecht/McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

Roy is the "second line center" only because I don't like him on Vanek's line.

Yet Goose was a successful 3rd line center on a team with 3 scoring lines when we switched to that format Jan 1st. Its amazing how many posters either ignore this, don't remember this or don't care. They just go into the default, Goose is best on the 4th line.

He played great in the role of 3rd line scoring center role. 44gms in that role 9g 12a 21pts (a pace of 17g 22a 39pts). Thats good production for a 3rd line center. Many nights Gerbe/Goose/Kaleta or Mancari were our best line.


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06-05-2011, 03:40 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Yet Goose was a successful 3rd line center on a team with 3 scoring lines when we switched to that format Jan 1st. Its amazing how many posters either ignore this, don't remember this or don't care. They just go into the default, Goose is best on the 4th line.

He played great in the role of 3rd line scoring center role. 44gms in that role 9g 12a 21pts (a pace of 17g 22a 39pts). Thats good production for a 3rd line center. Many nights Gerbe/Goose/Kaleta or Mancari were our best line.
Good point. I don't have a problem with Gaustad being the 3rd line center.

If Gaustad ends up having to start the season as the 4th line center because they want both Hecht and Gerbe in the top 9 then fine, but I don't see the point of bring in someone to play center on the 3rd line which would then mean one of Gerbe or Hecht would be on the 4th line.

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06-05-2011, 05:58 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Yet Goose was a successful 3rd line center on a team with 3 scoring lines when we switched to that format Jan 1st. Its amazing how many posters either ignore this, don't remember this or don't care. They just go into the default, Goose is best on the 4th line.

He played great in the role of 3rd line scoring center role. 44gms in that role 9g 12a 21pts (a pace of 17g 22a 39pts). Thats good production for a 3rd line center. Many nights Gerbe/Goose/Kaleta or Mancari were our best line.
Well put, but don't you think this team is better if he's the 4th line C? Speaking only for myself I guess, but I think I am thinking in ideals. Ideally, he would be the best 4th line C and we'd have 3 centers even better ahead of him. He's a capable (bordering on good) 3rd line C like I said, but if we had 3 additional centers that were better suited for the "top 3" spots we'd be a definite contender.

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06-06-2011, 12:44 PM
  #40
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Well put, but don't you think this team is better if he's the 4th line C? Speaking only for myself I guess, but I think I am thinking in ideals. Ideally, he would be the best 4th line C and we'd have 3 centers even better ahead of him. He's a capable (bordering on good) 3rd line C like I said, but if we had 3 additional centers that were better suited for the "top 3" spots we'd be a definite contender.
I think the problem here is you're looking at Goose being the 3rd line center as the problem, particularly in the playoffs. When the issue has been injuries and really only having one top 6 center to begin with. I also think many posters feel frustrated that Goose didn't step up and do more with Roy, Hecht and Connolly out in the playoffs. Its a bit of an absrd expectation but its out there.


Most teams don't have centers that can fill in for their top 6 centers if they get hurt. Certainly not if they both get hurt. Most teams would be royally screwed if their top 2 centers went down. Look at Vancouver. Their regular season 3rd line center was Malhotra. Filling in for him in the playoffs has been Maxim Lapierre. Neither of whom could replace Kelser or Sedin if they were injured. Basically if either of them go down the Nucks are in trouble. If they both go down the Nucks are screwed and everyone would understand and except that.

Yet here posters don't want to here that. They think there is some way to ensure that we can not only have two great top 6 centers. But we can also add an additional center or two on top of that to fill for them if there are injuries. So we won't be negatively impacted if they get hurt. Its silly. If any team has both of its top 2 centers are out injured they aren't going anywhere in the playoffs period.


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06-06-2011, 04:25 PM
  #41
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I'd be calling the Blues about TJ Oshie and hope a change of scenery does for him what it did for Mike Ribeiro. Oshie brings a rare combination of skill and physicality. He already scores at a decent pace. Maybe the Blues are getting tired of waiting for him to grow up and would let him go for a reasonable price.

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06-06-2011, 04:48 PM
  #42
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I think the problem here is you're looking at Goose being the 3rd line center as the problem, particularly in the playoffs. When the issue has been injuries and really only having one top 6 center to begin with. I also think many posters feel frustrated that Goose didn't step up and do more with Roy, Hecht and Connolly out in the playoffs. Its a bit of an absrd expectation but its out there.


Most teams don't have centers that can fill in for their top 6 centers if they get hurt. Certainly not if they both get hurt. Most teams would be royally screwed if their top 2 centers went down. Look at Vancouver. Their regular season 3rd line center was Malhotra. Filling in for him in the playoffs has been Maxim Lapierre. Neither of whom could replace Kelser or Sedin if they were injured. Basically if either of them go down the Nucks are in trouble. If they both go down the Nucks are screwed and everyone would understand and except that.

Yet here posters don't want to here that. They think there is some way to ensure that we can not only have two great top 6 centers. But we can also add an additional center or two on top of that to fill for them if there are injuries. So we won't be negatively impacted if they get hurt. Its silly. If any team has both of its top 2 centers are out injured they aren't going anywhere in the playoffs period.
To be fair I think an absolutely perfectly crafted team would have a displaced top6 center playing wing in addition to the centers actually playing center - for the very purpose of counteracting that problem. But actually achieving that in the NHL is insanely difficult (only Philly, that I can think of, and for them it comes at the cost of crappy goaltending).

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06-06-2011, 05:27 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I think the problem here is you're looking at Goose being the 3rd line center as the problem, particularly in the playoffs. When the issue has been injuries and really only having one top 6 center to begin with. I also think many posters feel frustrated that Goose didn't step up and do more with Roy, Hecht and Connolly out in the playoffs. Its a bit of an absrd expectation but its out there.


Most teams don't have centers that can fill in for their top 6 centers if they get hurt. Certainly not if they both get hurt. Most teams would be royally screwed if their top 2 centers went down. Look at Vancouver. Their regular season 3rd line center was Malhotra. Filling in for him in the playoffs has been Maxim Lapierre. Neither of whom could replace Kelser or Sedin if they were injured. Basically if either of them go down the Nucks are in trouble. If they both go down the Nucks are screwed and everyone would understand and except that.

Yet here posters don't want to here that. They think there is some way to ensure that we can not only have two great top 6 centers. But we can also add an additional center or two on top of that to fill for them if there are injuries. So we won't be negatively impacted if they get hurt. Its silly. If any team has both of its top 2 centers are out injured they aren't going anywhere in the playoffs period.
No, I don't think of Gaustad as a problem. But offensively I do get frustrated with him when he is paired with scoring forwards like Boyes because they need a playmaker. (I know I probably should be frustrated with Boyes instead). If we are talking about 3 true scoring lines I think he is better suited with Gerbe and Kaleta or any of Hecht, (Grier), McCormick, etc...players that play physical with him. He's not skilled enough to make the most of a finesse player like Boyes, IMO.

Gerbe is both an offensive threat and agitator and a good fit for Gaustad. Kaleta is an agitator but not enough offense. Get me a RW like Gerbe (preferably bigger) to play on his other wing and you can call him a 3rd or 4th line C. Either way I would be happy. Otherwise, they're not an effective "scoring line" the way I'm looking at it.

So the problem in defining him a 3rd line C where we have 3 scoring lines for me is that I wouldn't pair him with Pominville or Boyes. Stafford might be a good fit though. However, he's probably even more effective with a playmaking C as well.

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06-06-2011, 05:44 PM
  #44
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I'd be calling the Blues about TJ Oshie and hope a change of scenery does for him what it did for Mike Ribeiro. Oshie brings a rare combination of skill and physicality. He already scores at a decent pace. Maybe the Blues are getting tired of waiting for him to grow up and would let him go for a reasonable price.
Eh, 4:00 a.m. last call in Buffalo might hurt his, ah, conditioning.

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06-07-2011, 06:35 AM
  #45
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Certainly all players in the NHL have gotten the email that Buffalo is now "Hockey Heaven".

Actually, Marty Turco has stated on several radio shows nationally, including our own WGR550 that players around the league are talking about the Sabres organization, and in a very good way.

I won't speak to an email, but it's more than obvious the word is out amongst the players about the change in Buffalo, and in a very positive way.

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06-07-2011, 01:23 PM
  #46
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No, I don't think of Gaustad as a problem. But offensively I do get frustrated with him when he is paired with scoring forwards like Boyes because they need a playmaker. (I know I probably should be frustrated with Boyes instead). If we are talking about 3 true scoring lines I think he is better suited with Gerbe and Kaleta or any of Hecht, (Grier), McCormick, etc...players that play physical with him. He's not skilled enough to make the most of a finesse player like Boyes, IMO.

Gerbe is both an offensive threat and agitator and a good fit for Gaustad. Kaleta is an agitator but not enough offense. Get me a RW like Gerbe (preferably bigger) to play on his other wing and you can call him a 3rd or 4th line C. Either way I would be happy. Otherwise, they're not an effective "scoring line" the way I'm looking at it.

So the problem in defining him a 3rd line C where we have 3 scoring lines for me is that I wouldn't pair him with Pominville or Boyes. Stafford might be a good fit though. However, he's probably even more effective with a playmaking C as well.
An thats a pretty backwards way to look at this. Why are you trying to build the lines from the 3rd line up? Instead of from the top down? Not to mention every time Goose has played with Pommer they've been quite effective. Thats a baseless concern.

This all boils down to you don't think Boyes will click with Gerbe/Goose. If they can produce with a non-entity like Mancari on RW. Then I'm pretty sure they would be fine with Boyes. Demoting 2/3rds of a great 3rd line for the reason you've put forth makes no sense. Not to mention if the team is healthy and Boyes can't produce on the 3rd line behind Vanek/Pommer and Ennis/Stafford on the lines ahead of him. Then his linemates aren't the problem, he is.


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06-07-2011, 04:41 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
So I've been thinking about this for a while.



Another proposal would be for Josh Bailey of the New York Islanders. If we did make a move (a similar deal to the one above, Butler and a mid-round pick, or Butler and Sundher) and then signed a fill in at the number two slot, Buffalo could do whats been needed for Bailey for so long, give him some time in the AHL. I believe he was improperly developed by the Islanders but is still salvageable

.
I saw the thread you started on the NYI board.

You might as well take 21 yr old Bailey off your list.He's shown that he can play at the nhl level.It seems to be a confidence issue with him.

He played most of the season on the 3rd line.His salary isn't large.

Isles have zero reason to buy high and sell low with Bailey.At worst,he'll be a high end 3rd liner.At best their patience will see him develop into a very good 2nd liner.

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Old
06-09-2011, 10:38 PM
  #48
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Something to consider is that the days of using NHL roster spots to develop players may be over in Buffalo. Pegula wants to win now, and he wants to win a cup within 3 years. Regier no longer has the luxury of waiting for a player to develop which was done mainly so the owner could save money. The Detroit Red Wings have been cited as a model. They don't carry players on their roster to develop them. They'll sign a veteran free agent before they'll give a roster spot to an inconsistent young player.

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06-10-2011, 03:28 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Two points on Adam -- he doesn't look ready yet, even with the strides he made late in the season. And to be blunt, he's still pretty damn slow. So at this point, I'm not ready to see him pencilled into the lineup over anyone, Ruff's tire-pumping commentary or not. Someone like Cogliano offers a young player with something the Sabres need -- speed -- at a position they're particularly thin at. If he develops further, great. If he stalls, he's still a 30-40 point player on a reasonable contract who fills a role while they wait for Adam (or someone else's) maturation. This isn't an either/or scenario.
Would Adam's ceiling look like that of Andreychuck's is he stayed on course for development?

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06-10-2011, 10:27 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
Would Adam's ceiling look like that of Andreychuck's is he stayed on course for development?
I'd hate to compare Adam's ceiling to a potential HOF'er that scored over 600goals in the NHL. I think if he gets better defensively then I'd hope for a Joel Otto'esque career.

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