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Prendergast Era Draft Home Runs

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Old
07-18-2004, 11:42 AM
  #1
Lowetide
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Prendergast Era Draft Home Runs

Again it's way too early to build KP a monument but there are some things that we already know to be true about the 2001-04 drafts. Here's my list of big flys:

1. Ales Hemsky 1st round, 13th overall in 2001. No matter what happens in the future, it's been an extreme pleasure watching this guy play for the Oilers. He wasn't the clear choice at the time they picked him but he's a home run imo.
Players drafted before Hemsky who have not (yet) developed at the same pace: Sjostrom, Blackburn, Leclaire, Komisarek, Koivu, Svitov


2. Robbie Schremp 1st round, 25th overall in 2004. The only question about this guy is attitude, but for him to fall to #25 made him a bargain. The fact that Edmonton picked him instead of a more typical Oiler (I thought they might choose Bruce Graham) made this a home run pick imo.


3. Jarrett Stoll 2nd round, 36th overall in 2002. Wonderful player, and he might have an extra gear. I don't think there's a hockey fan alive who can't appreciate this guy and he was a great pick the moment they made it.
Players drafted before Stoll who have not (yet) developed at the same pace:
Considering Stoll was a re-entry it's rather hard to say. One of them, though, is certainly Jesse Niinimaki.



4. Doug Lynch 2nd round, 43rd overall in 2001. He did several things in his first pro season that Oiler fans aren't used to seeing from one of their own. Making the All Star team in mid-season, being one of the best rookies in the AHL and registering a point total not out of line with his junior numbers. Great future.
Players selected before Lynch who have not (yet) delivered at the same pace: Several. The two most interesting are Greg Watson, who was rated about even with Lynch and Duncan Milroy who I wanted the Oilers to take at 13 (I know I know).


5. Jussi Markkanen 5th round, 133rd overall in 2001. He's become an NHLer and that's an accomplishment in any round. However, for the Oil to pick up a quality goalie like Markkanen where they did has to rank as a home run.
Players selected before Markkanen who have not (yet) delivered at the same pace: This isn't really fair since Markkanen was an overager. We can answer it 10 years from now.


6. Kyle Brodziak 7th round, 214th overall in 2003. Maybe too soon to call it a home run but Brodziak most certainly is a triple. He had 2 30 goal seasons in the WHL before age 20 and the Oilers don't have too many of those guys. Guy has him as a "6.6" which is leaning toward 2line center and that's pretty darn good. If Brodziak plays as many games in his career as Shawn Horcoff has to this point this pick will be one of the Oilers all time best late rounders.
Players selected before Brodziak who have not (yet) delivered at the same pace: How much time do you have?

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07-18-2004, 11:56 AM
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Just to clarify... you mention Stoll as a re-entry, so it's tough to compare, but you used Lombardi, who was a re-entry, to compare to one of the Oilers picks... does that make a difference at all?

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07-18-2004, 12:04 PM
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One thing I noted from this list of players is that two of them have wrinkled pasts in terms of contractual/team issues. Stoll could not come to financial terms with the Flames and was picked up by Edmonton only after re-entering the draft. And I think we all know about Schremp's history on these boards - demanding a trade from his junior team.

Quite frankly, I'm impressed that the management team still picked these guys regardless of any potential hassles they might pose contractually or financially. It seems like just yesterday that any player of the "holdout" variety would automatically signal the red light to the Oilers and wouldn't be given a second of consideration by fans or management.

Nice to see that the quality of the player is the deciding factor in these recent picks.

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07-18-2004, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
3. Jarrett Stoll 2nd round, 36th overall in 2002. Wonderful player, and he might have an extra gear. I don't think there's a hockey fan alive who can't appreciate this guy and he was a great pick the moment they made it.
Players drafted before Stoll who have not (yet) developed at the same pace:
Considering Stoll was a re-entry it's rather hard to say. One of them, though, is certainly Jesse Niinimaki.
Personally I think we've just scratched the surface of how good Stoll will be down the line, but when talking of him, Im gonna have to mention the Monster 2nd round in which he was taken, a round which will have a huge impact on the Oilers future (maybe even moreso than the Dubnyk/Schremp '04 1st round):

2002 NHL Entry Draft, 2nd Round:

31st Jeff Deslauriers
36th Jarret Stoll
44th Matt Greene

In one round, Prendergast & Co. manage to nab our current highest ranked prospect and possible future franchise goalie, a natural-born leader centerman who made incredible strides in his rookie campaign (both offensive & defensive) and looks to be a major part of this teams future, and a defenceman who Prendergast has stated could play in the league right now. A big, punishing Dman who loves to throw opposing forwards around in his own zone, our answer to Calgary's Phaneuf.

The Hecht trade was brilliant.

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07-18-2004, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
In one round, Prendergast & Co. manage to nab our current highest ranked prospect and possible future franchise goalie, a natural-born leader centerman who made incredible strides in his rookie campaign (both offensive & defensive) and looks to be a major part of this teams future, and a defenceman who Prendergast has stated could play in the league right now.
Agree completely. And this from a draft that most called weak. I do remember someone saying it wasn't so much weak as no one had emerged from a rather large pack.

Looks like KP and group made some outstanding choices.

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07-18-2004, 12:33 PM
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The Hecht trade was brilliant.
When that trade happened I used to post at another Oiler board and people there hated the deal. I am not sure what the reaction was here, but I guess the reasoning was that Stoll is a headcase for not signing with Calgary or Toronto.

Which leads me to another thing, many are calling Schremp a headcase for trade demands and all, but when it comes to NHL he may be another Stoll but with gamebreaking abilities.

EDIT: Spelling mistake.


Last edited by SerbianEagle: 07-18-2004 at 12:38 PM.
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07-18-2004, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
When that trade happened I used to post at another Oiler board and people there hated the deal. I am not sure what the reaction was here, but I guess the reasoning was that Stoll is a headcase for not signing with Calgary or Toronto.

Which leads me to another thing, many are calling Schremp a headcase for trade demands and all, but when it comes to NHL he may be another Stoll but with gamebreaking abilities.

EDIT: Spelling mistake.
From what I remember, he not only couldn't come to terms with Calgary, but there were other issues... And his trade to Toronto was indeed completed between Calgary & Toronto, problem was the paperwork finalizing the deal being late getting to the NHL head office, making it null & void.

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07-18-2004, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
When that trade happened I used to post at another Oiler board and people there hated the deal. I am not sure what the reaction was here, but I guess the reasoning was that Stoll is a headcase for not signing with Calgary or Toronto.

Which leads me to another thing, many are calling Schremp a headcase for trade demands and all, but when it comes to NHL he may be another Stoll but with gamebreaking abilities.

EDIT: Spelling mistake.

At HF in 2000, Stoll was pretty much the pick we wanted when they took Mikhnov (he was my pick for sure and I think redtwilight liked him too). I also know guys like Hillbilly Priest liked him even more than I did so you should have come earlier.


dawgbone: you're absolutely right, I was inconsistent in that area.

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07-18-2004, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
From what I remember, he not only couldn't come to terms with Calgary, but there were other issues... And his trade to Toronto was indeed completed between Calgary & Toronto, problem was the paperwork finalizing the deal being late getting to the NHL head office, making it null & void.
Yep, Bill Watters said all that stood between the Leafs and Stoll was a malfunctioning fax machine.

On an unrelated note, is that the guy from The Corpse in your avatar?

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07-18-2004, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim_Harnock

On an unrelated note, is that the guy from The Corpse in your avatar?
The king himself. Yup.

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07-18-2004, 06:03 PM
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Just a note on the Hetch trade. And I know I'm going to be bashed for this, but I didn't like the trade then and...well...I like the trade now, but I still miss Jochen a hell of a lot. Simply put, the treament of Jochen is exactly why I hate Mac-t. He put up 40 solid points with us his first year, being bounced around from the lines 1 through 3 the entire year (he never had a consistent center, at all). Despite that, and despite playing with the added pressure of justifying an unpopular trade, he produced at a decent clip (especially for an oiler). He played a relatively strong two way game, and at 25, had no where to go but up. Yet he wasn't Mac-t's type of player. Why? Who knows. Maybe because he doesn't throw his head into the glass every game like moreau does. And I know some will say hetch didn't want to be here, but we had his rights for 5 years, so really, it didn't matter. And that bad attitude- rumor though it was- never really showed on the ice.

So yes, we got a number of good, and perhaps even great, prospects for him. And yes I am overjoyed for Stoll and Delauriers futures. But hetch, if he stays healthy (which I admit, is still a question mark for him) will be a point per game player in this league. When he's on he looks like Jagr. He also has a nice two way game. And if you check out his stats this season (64gp, 52 points, +17) he's not far from making that statement come true. Personally, he's the next Miro Satan. Let's hope stoll goes peca and delauriers pretends his luongo for the rest of his career. We need skill. We gave it up. I'm not yet convinced Lowe or Mac-t know what to do with it. Pray that hemsky is not next in the firing line.

Oh, and long live the brad isbister's of the world (at least that's mac-t's ideology).


Last edited by mamettt: 07-18-2004 at 06:07 PM.
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07-18-2004, 06:16 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
Just a note on the Hetch trade. And I know I'm going to be bashed for this, but I didn't like the trade then and...well...I like the trade now, but I still miss Jochen a hell of a lot. Simply put, the treament of Jochen is exactly why I hate Mac-t. He put up 40 solid points with us his first year, being bounced around from the lines 1 through 3 the entire year (he never had a consistent center, at all). Despite that, and despite playing with the added pressure of justifying an unpopular trade, he produced at a decent clip (especially for an oiler). He played a relatively strong two way game, and at 25, had no where to go but up. Yet he wasn't Mac-t's type of player. Why? Who knows. Maybe because he doesn't throw his head into the glass every game like moreau does. And I know some will say hetch didn't want to be here, but we had his rights for 5 years, so really, it didn't matter. And that bad attitude- rumor though it was- never really showed on the ice.

So yes, we got a number of good, and perhaps even great, prospects for him. And yes I am overjoyed for Stoll and Delauriers futures. But hetch, if he stays healthy (which I admit, is still a question mark for him) will be a point per game player in this league. When he's on he looks like Jagr. He also has a nice two way game. And if you check out his stats this season (64gp, 52 points, +17) he's not far from making that statement come true. Personally, he's the next Miro Satan. Let's hope stoll goes peca and delauriers pretends his luongo for the rest of his career. We need skill. We gave it up. I'm not yet convinced Lowe or Mac-t know what to do with it. Pray that hemsky is not next in the firing line.

Oh, and long live the brad isbister's of the world (at least that's mac-t's ideology).
I believe Hecht was at fault that he was traded. He signed with a team in Germany after he was traded to Edmonton. KLowe wasn't too pleased about that. He didn't want to be in Edmonton. I think John Short once said that Hecht had about 20? good games. He then went on to say, "Too bad it wasn't the last 20?". Why does MacT or Lowe get all the blame and the players and never blamed.

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07-18-2004, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hemsky83
I believe Hecht was at fault that he was traded. He signed with a team in Germany after he was traded to Edmonton. KLowe wasn't too pleased about that. He didn't want to be in Edmonton. I think John Short once said that Hecht had about 20? good games. He then went on to say, "Too bad it wasn't the last 20?". Why does MacT or Lowe get all the blame and the players and never blamed.
However once he came over, after his two week career with Frankfurt, he never gripped about not being here and not wanting to play. From there on out I never saw anything but innuendo and "insider" speculation...things I don't hold much stock in. And who cares if he didn't love Edmonton? He was here. He played well. And as for "he had 20 good games" the entire year...he's young. Young players are inconsistent. That doesn't rob them of their talent.

Like I said, I like the trade from a value standpoint. I'm glad we got the two wonderkids. But that doesn't mean we won't miss hetch. Or that he's handling doesn't reveal a fatal flaw in the edmonton oiler mentality (grit over skill, brawns over brains)....hemsky could be next, and don't anyone forget it.

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07-18-2004, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
However once he came over, after his two week career with Frankfurt, he never gripped about not being here and not wanting to play. From there on out I never saw anything but innuendo and "insider" speculation...things I don't hold much stock in. And who cares if he didn't love Edmonton? He was here. He played well. And as for "he had 20 good games" the entire year...he's young. Young players are inconsistent. That doesn't rob them of their talent.

Like I said, I like the trade from a value standpoint. I'm glad we got the two wonderkids. But that doesn't mean we won't miss hetch. Or that he's handling doesn't reveal a fatal flaw in the edmonton oiler mentality (grit over skill, brawns over brains)....hemsky could be next, and don't anyone forget it.
Hecht did not want to be here. He pretended he did but didn't like it here. It was Hecht who mistreated Edmonton, not the other way around. He had 3 goals in the last 33 games. Is that the way someone should play for a team fighting for the playoffs. No it isn't. Hecht at 24 is young and young players are inconsistent. Yet players like Hemsky who won't be 21 until August get criticized all the time. Double standard? I believe so.

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07-18-2004, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Hecht did not want to be here. He pretended he did but didn't like it here. It was Hecht who mistreated Edmonton, not the other way around. He had 3 goals in the last 33 games. Is that the way someone should play for a team fighting for the playoffs. No it isn't. Hecht at 24 is young and young players are inconsistent. Yet players like Hemsky who won't be 21 until August get criticized all the time. Double standard? I believe so.
I admit, signing with Frankfurt was a mistake. But aside from that- which he quickly corrected by coming back- how do you know he "didn't want to be here?" Did you speak with him during the season? How did he "pretend" to like it here but didnt? Do you have some inside info that we don't. Did he say these things to the press? To you? And, perhaps you can tell us, does he like playing in Buffalo? I mean you seem to know the inner thoughts of this young man. Do tell.

Hetch's future could have been in Edmonton. To spin it any other way is to claim knowledge (i.e. you know he didn't like it here) that known of us have. He's fit in well in Buffalo, which is probably a worse place to play than up here. Furthermore, even if he didn't love it here, that doesn't mean he still couldn't be a solid, and even big time, contributor to this club. And as for the "double standard", I have no idea what you're talking about. Hetch was roundly criticized during the year he was with us. He was viewed in the same doubtful light (all skill, no passion/grit) that some fans have viewed hemsky with. Certainly mac-t's handling of hemsky in the 2nd half of last year would be strong evidence that he still doesn't trust the young man. Hopefully he can learn to, because he has the talent to go very far.

Just like Hecht did.

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07-18-2004, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
I admit, signing with Frankfurt was a mistake. But aside from that- which he quickly corrected by coming back- how do you know he "didn't want to be here?" Did you speak with him during the season? How did he "pretend" to like it here but didnt? Do you have some inside info that we don't. Did he say these things to the press? To you? And, perhaps you can tell us, does he like playing in Buffalo? I mean you seem to know the inner thoughts of this young man. Do tell.

Hetch's future could have been in Edmonton. To spin it any other way is to claim knowledge (i.e. you know he didn't like it here) that known of us have. He's fit in well in Buffalo, which is probably a worse place to play than up here. Furthermore, even if he didn't love it here, that doesn't mean he still couldn't be a solid, and even big time, contributor to this club. And as for the "double standard", I have no idea what you're talking about. Hetch was roundly criticized during the year he was with us. He was viewed in the same doubtful light (all skill, no passion/grit) that some fans have viewed hemsky with. Certainly mac-t's handling of hemsky in the 2nd half of last year would be strong evidence that he still doesn't trust the young man. Hopefully he can learn to, because he has the talent to go very far.

Just like Hecht did.
Do you have proof that Hecht liked it here? It works both ways. MacT is getting criticized way too much just like Lowe. If Hecht liked it as much in Edmonton as you claim, he would have tried harder to help the team.

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07-18-2004, 07:14 PM
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I thought it was a well known fact he was disapointed to leave St. Louis and didn't want to be in Edmonton. He was threatening not to sign here and go to Germany. He did play ok, not great but decent enough. I really thought he would grow to love this place. But KLo traded him a year later. the value that we got at that time didn't seem much considering he was the centerpiece in the weight deal. And i think this was due to the fact he was unhappy here.

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07-18-2004, 09:28 PM
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His inconsistency seemed to me to come from a lack of effort as opposed to skill and production problems. He seemed to play great for a couple of games, and then sleepwalk for a few more. That sounds to me like a player who doesn't like where he is playing. It is certainly the way I get in a job I don't like.

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07-18-2004, 09:32 PM
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I just remember when Smyth went down...

I thought for sure Hecht was going to light it up when he went up to the first line, and after a couple of weeks, they started a revolving door because Hecht never bothered to show up half the time.

He was given primo ice time and did less with it than Carter did...

And yes, the Oilers had his rights for 5 more years... but if you are going to get the effort you had gotten out of Hecht for the next 5 years, you might as well trade him.

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07-18-2004, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
I just remember when Smyth went down...

I thought for sure Hecht was going to light it up when he went up to the first line, and after a couple of weeks, they started a revolving door because Hecht never bothered to show up half the time.

He was given primo ice time and did less with it than Carter did...

And yes, the Oilers had his rights for 5 more years... but if you are going to get the effort you had gotten out of Hecht for the next 5 years, you might as well trade him.

definitely. I loved the Hecht for 2- 2nd rounders. great move by
K-Lowe

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07-18-2004, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
I just remember when Smyth went down...

I thought for sure Hecht was going to light it up when he went up to the first line, and after a couple of weeks, they started a revolving door because Hecht never bothered to show up half the time.

He was given primo ice time and did less with it than Carter did...

And yes, the Oilers had his rights for 5 more years... but if you are going to get the effort you had gotten out of Hecht for the next 5 years, you might as well trade him.
I'll agree that I was dissapointed when he didn't step it up on the first line...but does three bad weeks mean banishing the guy off forever? Please. He had some very good stretches for us which you guys so lovingly disregard. Futhermore, the talent was there to be dominant. Of course he may be inconsistent, but as he's showing in Buffalo, a little patience goes a long way. And the coin flips both ways. He hardly was given a chance to succeed when he was playing on the third line for us and being moved around. His affort was hardly Alexei Yashin's. He was young, and he needed guidance and faith. Not the normal mac-t north american BS about the euro not giving it his all. Like I said, it didn't help to be moved around every second game, playing with hands of stones for complementary players. Certainly Jochen should have played better. But he also did show what he was capable of. At 24, I would expect a team to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And let us not forget the countless people who have not done a thing with top 6 ice time *brad isbister* cough *george laraque* cough *daniel cleary* cough who were given countless second chances to stay on this team, opportunities hecht was not afforded. If Jochen were north american and 3 inches taller, and he had had the same inconsistencies, he would not have gotten traded. Isbister shows up about half the time. He's not overtly physical for his size. And he sure as hell doesn't score, or even look like he gives a damn when he doesn't.

Hecht is a good two way scorer. He's not great yet. But he has potential. It was the oilers that did not give him a second chance. We got a good deal out of trading him, and let's be clear, that's not what him debating. But we also lost our chance at a potentially dominant forward. Was he moody? at times. Did he live upt to our expectations? At times yes and no. Did he contribute? Yes. Could he have contriubted much more in the future with a little faith from management and fans? Yes.

And what happens if Ales Hemsky throws a tantrum? What if he gets a little angry, then gets a little apathetic on the ice? Do we trade him to? What if he doesn't take advantage of playing next to nedved next year? Should we brandish him off? Because that's what I fear will happen.

Faith in skill. Dealing with, and not insulting, a player's character issues (Be them legitimate or not, which were highly speculative in the case of hecht). Dealing with the ups and downs most european skilled players have when they first break in.

Those are the simple things I ask. They were not shown with hecht. Nor Satan. And what of Schremp? Hemsky?

But, like I said, long live Brad Isbister.


Last edited by mamettt: 07-18-2004 at 11:14 PM.
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07-18-2004, 11:11 PM
  #22
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The Satan thing gets me everytime. I know he's been in the lime light for being "high maintenence" of late, but when he was here he was pretty good from "what I know". I still can't believe how little opportunity the guy got to play on the first line but still managed to get points. If we would of held on to that card for a bit longer we would of got alot more then Muir in return .

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07-19-2004, 12:49 AM
  #23
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IMO Brodziak could easily be added to this list, he was drafted 214th overall last year and is probably a slam dunk to make the RR's this year. Even a very good ahl'er at 214th is a solid pick, if he plays some nhl games he's pure gold.

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07-19-2004, 06:50 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
1. Ales Hemsky 1st round, 13th overall in 2001.
2. Robbie Schremp 1st round, 25th overall in 2004.
3. Jarrett Stoll 2nd round, 36th overall in 2002.
4. Doug Lynch 2nd round, 43rd overall in 2001.
5. Jussi Markkanen 5th round, 133rd overall in 2001.
6. Kyle Brodziak 7th round, 214th overall in 2003.
I will give you the grand slam on Stoll. But the others get diffent rating.

Markenen is 29 and he will be a career back up--him and Conklin are stop gaps until Dub or JDD get ready

Lynch did not have a great year his first as a pro in the ahl(depending on who you believe)

Hemsky needs to start shooting more--He is compared to Hejduk--but man does he need to start shooting more.

But suggesting either either Schremp ot Brodziak are home runs is a complete joke at this point in time.

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07-19-2004, 08:01 AM
  #25
Lowetide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark
Markenen is 29 and he will be a career back up--him and Conklin are stop gaps until Dub or JDD get ready

Lynch did not have a great year his first as a pro in the ahl(depending on who you believe)

Hemsky needs to start shooting more--He is compared to Hejduk--but man does he need to start shooting more.

But suggesting either either Schremp ot Brodziak are home runs is a complete joke at this point in time.
1. Markkanen-For the life of me I don't understand this obsession with the ages of the goalies. Markkanen IS older---but in his seasons here he has done an adequate to excellent job. NHL history is full of guys who got a chance to tend net later and many have success.

2. Lynch-I haven't really read too much negative, can you give me a site or pass along some info? thanks.

3. Hemsky-If you've followed the Oilers for as long as I have, Hemsky qualifies as a home run believe me.

4. Schremp/Brodziak-Fair enough, but that's my opinion and I'll stick by it.

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